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genericnick posted:What protests are you talking about then? George Floyd, the storming of Capitol building.
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Mar 18, 2023 01:35
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should have named it p99 or p100 would have been adopted imho
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Mar 18, 2023 01:36
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if we combine the George Floyd, covid, and Jan 6th protests, I think we'd start to get an idea how the American public would be acting about 3 months into a total war effort. maybe 6 months if they delay the rationing and turn on the money printer right away
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Mar 18, 2023 01:43
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National guard got mobilized, some paratroopers. In a war with China the US government would mobilized against its own people before mobilizing against China. Not because they are a threat. But because the government treats them like a threat.
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Mar 18, 2023 01:47
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Lostconfused posted:George Floyd, the storming of Capitol building. Eh, fair enough I guess, though it seems the US has managed to stamp out protest movements pretty efficiently for all my live. I guess the storming of the capital is indicative of something, but couldn't say of what. The far right faction never really cared that much about legitimacy. Which obviously doesn't really tell us much about how a war mobilization would go. Probably badly, but if you're doing the total (bu not nuclear) war in the South Chinese sea, wouldn't you run out of ships before running out of people? And also all the trade routes get hosed so who knows what happens then. Europe has been pretty chill with getting deindustrialized for some border conflict, but if that conflict is literally on the other side of the planet?
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Mar 18, 2023 01:52
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That's why I only said be careful. The people in US can behave unpredictably. I have no idea what will happen, but I can't imagine that there wouldn't be some kind of a reaction to a major event like that.
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Mar 18, 2023 01:56
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Just think about the 101st being posted to Washington during the 70's, Kent State, that sort of thing. The people on Jan 6th didn't really know what they wanted or expected to happen. People protesting against the many compounding crises that would emerge almost immediately, whether that's rationing, widespread goods shortages, the draft, anti-war protests, whatever else might happen, they don't need a clearly defined political goal other than "not this untenable situation".
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Mar 18, 2023 02:15
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indigi posted:if we combine the George Floyd, covid, and Jan 6th protests, I think we'd start to get an idea how the American public would be acting about 3 months into a total war effort. maybe 6 months if they delay the rationing and turn on the money printer right away I don’t see how we could politically do total war without try out WMDs first.
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Mar 18, 2023 02:17
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Trabisnikof posted:I don’t see how we could politically do total war without try out WMDs first. Well, either way, it shows neoliberalism cannot survive war. Now, one thing I will say, the MIC using Star Wars and ABMs to skim has meant that the capability to carry out a first strike without retaliation does not exist, is not likely to ever exist, given they can't make $400 artillery shells, and so they may have inadvertently prevented nuclear war by that alone. Hell, in supplying substandard steel to the Navy for nuclear subs, and faking tests, they diminish the capacity to strike that way too. They've not been able to deliver a satisfactory nuclear bomber since the B-52, the B-1s and B-2s had a lot of (very expensive) problems, and more to the point, no new ones have come off the assembly line in ages, and their replacements, if they ever come, will also be profit maximizing boondoggles.
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Mar 18, 2023 02:25
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indigi posted:if we combine the George Floyd, covid, and Jan 6th protests, I think we'd start to get an idea how the American public would be acting about 3 months into a total war effort. maybe 6 months if they delay the rationing and turn on the money printer right away  Neoliberalism is unable to do rationing, for this reason. It will.entirely be the first picture where the wealthy buy more than they need so their pomerians can dine on steak while regular people get nothing. This should destabilize the country but I'm sure once a Democrat figures out a way to blame that on Republicans ans thats why you have to vote for them to get better access to ration cards the people will go home happy to do know they've done their jobs, and than nothing fundamentally changes Oh my god can you imagine the corrupt mess that the Democrat ration app would be
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Mar 18, 2023 02:49
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Frosted Flake posted:Well, either way, it shows neoliberalism cannot survive war. they have been bitching about the threat of iranian/chinese naval mines since forever and they are still lol when it comes to minesweepers
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Mar 18, 2023 02:50
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Palladium posted:they have been bitching about the threat of iranian/chinese naval mines since forever and they are still lol when it comes to minesweepers I think the fear is a minesweeper is gonna eat an antiship missile
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Mar 18, 2023 03:06
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KomradeX posted:
This literally happened at the start of Covid with people hoarding hand sanitizer and toilet paper and states and the federal government highjacking shipments of supplies from eachother. Plus I remember a few articles that basically were the steak dinners for Pomeranians (something about all the rich people fleeing to their small town beach houses and admitting to buying more steaks than they could even freeze while locals who actually worried the store couldn’t buy anything and were worried about how the two emergency bed local hospital was going to be able to handle the outbreak). If the federal government can’t prevent infighting amongst the states and can’t resist waylaying trucks of masks, there is absolutely no way they could ideologically or technically implement rationing. Hell remember when Covid vaccines started rolling out and several hospitals just had all the administrators take the vaccines for themselves, their families, and donators and the actual healthcare workers didn’t get any? Or how the first several months they were limited to old people who didn’t want them and healthcare workers… so you had yoga and fitness instructors passing themselves off as healthcare workers to jump the line. In addition to the whole process being hilariously corrupt, the actual rationing app would probably also just have a “rich people mode” where if you want you can just bypass using any kind of ration cards and just pay higher prices. Like how you can pay just pay the TSA and just basically bypass airport security (or fly your own private jet).
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Mar 18, 2023 03:31
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Pulcinella posted:This literally happened at the start of Covid with people hoarding hand sanitizer and toilet paper and states and the federal government highjacking shipments of supplies from eachother. Plus I remember a few articles that basically were the steak dinners for Pomeranians (something about all the rich people fleeing to their small town beach houses and admitting to buying more steaks than they could even freeze while locals who actually worried the store couldn’t buy anything and were worried about how the two emergency bed local hospital was going to be able to handle the outbreak). If the federal government can’t prevent infighting amongst the states and can’t resist waylaying trucks of masks, there is absolutely no way they could ideologically or technically implement rationing. Hell remember when Covid vaccines started rolling out and several hospitals just had all the administrators take the vaccines for themselves, their families, and donators and the actual healthcare workers didn’t get any? Or how the first several months they were limited to old people who didn’t want them and healthcare workers… so you had yoga and fitness instructors passing themselves off as healthcare workers to jump the line. Jesus thats a great point. I can't believe I missed that obvious parallel
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Mar 18, 2023 03:43
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a revolution against neoliberalism, with the goal of “actually doing things” to deal with extraordinary circumstances, but the “needed things” remain unchanged from their conception in pre-revolution neoliberal ideology, makes no sense. that would more properly be called a coup, I guess. Orbis Tertius has issued a correction as of 05:48 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 05:35
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Trabisnikof posted:It is an interesting phenomenon that even with the high profit margins on military equipment, an active conflict we are expending military equipment in, and compete capture of the government by the MIC we still don’t see them massively increasing production of military equipment in the US. Not profitable enough, according to DoD quote:
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Mar 18, 2023 06:24
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Orbis Tertius posted:a revolution against neoliberalism, with the goal of “actually doing things” to deal with extraordinary circumstances, but the “needed things” remain unchanged from their conception in pre-revolution neoliberal ideology, makes no sense. The way to the universal is through the particular. right out gods butthole. it’s a different way of thinking. it’s why I still say “we”
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Mar 18, 2023 06:29
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the US army came dangerously close to complete collapse in Vietnam, and stab-in-the-back myths about the politicians betraying our brave boys on the cusp of victory aside, the US only gave up on Vietnam because they had been militarily defeated and could no longer continue the war. here is a (retired) USMC artillery colonel explaining the situation from his perspective in Armed Forces Journal, a magazine for military officers, in 1971: https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/Vietnam/heinl.html (the author has an annual award, the Colonel Robert D Heinl Jr Memorial Award in Marine Corps History, named after him, fun fact) now obviously there's stuff in this that this guy was wrong about, and he was also extremely racist and extremely paranoid about communists, liberals, rock music, etc., but he is accurately reporting how much of the US military's officer corps perceived the situation at the time. the draftee army was a complete failure and they knew it. morale was rock bottom and by 1971 it was increasingly difficult to get the draftee units to do anything at all. the ARVN was a sad joke and there weren't enough professional US military units to prosecute the entire war by themselves - even if all of them were willing to go fight, which by 1971 was not a sure thing anymore; even the guys who volunteered were getting fed up. none of the problems which collapsed the draftee army in Vietnam have gone away and most of them have since gotten way worse, and soldiers can now text each other seditious literature instead of having to secretly mimeograph illegal newsletters in the barracks. lol, and now I'm imagining some crypto bro trying to disrupt the 'cash bounties on gung-ho officers' industry by putting out an app that lets you pay out bounties in ETH
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Mar 18, 2023 07:12
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Both Army and navy are responding to their manpower problems in measures intended to seduce recruits and reenlistees: disciplinary permissiveness, abolition of reveille and KP, fewer inspections, longer haircuts – essentially cosmetic changes aimed at softening (and blurring) traditional military and naval images lol we’re doing this all right now and are still 15k pers short. We’re not beating the PLA lmao.
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Mar 18, 2023 07:18
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you ever read and keep your powder dry FF?
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Mar 18, 2023 07:25
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the other day I was looking for a listing or database of all military recruitment ads. didn't find one but happened across some market research commissioned by dod. it was mildly interesting I guess:  also as peoples brains fully develop they tend to grow less interested: 
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Mar 18, 2023 07:46
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I like money But I don't like death I guess if there's no war on I get money with no real risk of death *checks news* wait
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Mar 18, 2023 07:56
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The way to the universal is through the particular. right out gods butthole. sports homer for imperialism smh
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Mar 18, 2023 08:44
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Slavvy posted:I like money war were declared
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Mar 18, 2023 08:45
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I saw a post, can't find it again because twitter sucks now, but the thesis was that exposing Eastern Europeans to the (illusory) good side of capitalism played a role in fomenting discontent within the socialist bloc, and then later on, we'll find that any number of leaders in Eastern Europe were educated and brought up in the West (Toomas Hendrik Ilves, for example) But now we're seeing the problem where the value proposition of capitalism is not what it used to be, and the West's "lashing out" is closing off avenues for the ruling class to be bred in the West. If being Russian means you're persona non grata in America, and if America is locking itself out from Chinese princelings wishing to study there, it's removing the ability to socially reproduce true believers in capitalism/neoliberalism, while at the same time heightening nationalist sentiment What happens when the American belief that Russia is still a communist nation as of today makes them engage in foreign policy that antagonizes Russia so much that it eliminates the ability to influence Russia away from communism?
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Mar 18, 2023 09:02
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I don't think the president of russia and member of a US manufactured party is going to bring Socialism back to Russia.
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Mar 18, 2023 09:37
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in this context the idea of the US having a TikTok ban is interesting because it will be the first example of Most People losing the tiniest thing in the great US China war. I suspect people will lose their poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2023 09:43
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:in this context the idea of the US having a TikTok ban is interesting because it will be the first example of Most People losing the tiniest thing in the great US China war. I suspect people will lose their poo poo. I agree, however we (us goons) might cynically think of the motives behind and consequences of that act, for most it’s just going to be an inexplicable severing from an innocuous, enjoyable thing. are there any historical parallels? we’re talking about a digital commodity available to practically everyone with a smart phone that allows more-or-less global communication depending on where you’re at. which limits us to the past ten years, maybe? the big thing that’s hard for us olds to ascertain is how this will impact the younger users of the service. if the FED had suddenly swooped down and shutdown my Subspace and Ultima Online servers when I was in middle school,for no good reason that I could comprehend at that age, it absolutely would have influenced my nascent political sensibility (to whatever end) I would say it’s uncharted territory, but im an idiot. Orbis Tertius has issued a correction as of 10:13 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 09:48
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the US already has an alternative to tiktok; Youtube Shorts.
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Mar 18, 2023 10:18
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Tankbuster posted:the US already has an alternative to tiktok; Youtube Shorts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jdM_WdrvGY
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Mar 18, 2023 10:19
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KomradeX posted:
I find it very easy to believe that the USA is incapable of even pretending to implement rationing of any kind. Remember all the many instances of stores responding to various moments of crisis by ramping up their prices on essential, basic supplies? There are always plenty of people willing to jump in and explain that such behaviour ensures that the stuff only goes to those who really need it, that the seller is perfectly within their rights to do so, supply and demand, economics 101, and so on. Everyone here has seen it multiple times at least. The counterargument is always that no, that's bullshit, they're charging way above a fair price even for the circumstances, and it will just lead to the rich hoarding it all. But it just doesn't seem to cross people's minds to make the leap to suggest rationing, because market thinking is so deeply embedded as the only possible solution to all problems. The thought simply never enters most people's minds.
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Mar 18, 2023 10:28
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Tankbuster posted:the US already has an alternative to tiktok; Youtube Shorts. is technical similarity really relevant though? like the attachments I had to ICQ and then AIM as a young adult (I’m 39 now) were certainly more than the sum of their technical features. I’m trying to imagine what it would have been like for those services to have been unceremoniously taken away without anything offered in their place, something that expressed those emotional intangibles that grow like moss around all mediums of social communication, especially when you’re young and you imprint on everything. I don’t even have tik tok installed as an app so I’m not sure why I’m belaboring this Orbis Tertius has issued a correction as of 11:36 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 10:33
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idk about all that. It lets me watch touhou fumos which is all that matters to me.
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Mar 18, 2023 10:42
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In my opinion the "spin off some of tiktok just for usa" sounds the most likely. They can mint a new US company, declare that ties are severed from their parent company, everyone makes money, government has some oversight and a little alphabet agency involvement. more stories about how joining armed forces is good, the end.
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Mar 18, 2023 10:48
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Bring back Vine but call it Liberty Cabbage
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Mar 18, 2023 11:34
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palindrome posted:In my opinion the "spin off some of tiktok just for usa" sounds the most likely. They can mint a new US company, declare that ties are severed from their parent company, everyone makes money, government has some oversight and a little alphabet agency involvement. more stories about how joining armed forces is good, the end. Nah, gently caress that. Forced sale of a Chinese company by the US government? Rather see it burned o the ground.
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Mar 18, 2023 13:44
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yeah, tik tok will probably do whatever is minimally necessary to continue profiting from their Western userbase, and will otherwise just go about their business. comedy option: on the other hand, it’s clear which way the winds are blowing, and you only live once, so why not give the finger to the decaying hegemon?
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Mar 18, 2023 14:03
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The cpc could just block the sale regardless of what the company wants anyway and with all escalation you reach a point when one side just goes "you know what? gently caress it."
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Mar 18, 2023 14:08
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Orbis Tertius posted:I agree, however we (us goons) might cynically think of the motives behind and consequences of that act, for most it’s just going to be an inexplicable severing from an innocuous, enjoyable thing. It’s smoking, so not technically innocuous, but before Obama loosened the restrictions, how many people were wanting to import Cuban cigars? How many people would by them in a different country and just try to sneak them in and not declare them? Digitally, most things I can think of are basically the opposite direction. The US largely banning the export of cryptography implementations as “munitions.” It’s been somewhat loosened but there are still restrictions on what you can and can’t do (e.g. even if you upload a hobby fart button app to the app store you still have to indicate whether it contains non exempt encryption). It’s dumb because it really just weakens protection for normal people and usually how they work is public knowledge anyway, so it’s not like the Chinese military can’t come up with their own encryption implementation. I guess there is also domestic stuff: the video game and movie industries coming up with their own ratings standards to avoid federal regulation. You had Tipper Gore trying to censor popular music, though her “parental advisory” sticker basically just seems to increase the appeal. Banning Tik Tok definitely seems like it could just increase the appeal (the social network the man doesn’t want you to know about). It also seems like a very blatant “we are mad they are doing the same thing we are doing and we are mad that our domestic social media networks can’t compete.” If Playstation was owned by Tencent instead of Sony right now you can be sure they would be lobbying to have Playstation imports banned and the merger with Activision-Blizzard would have been rubber stamped already.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:33
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my father in law gets cuban cigars routed through switzerland somehow. some business guy hookup
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Mar 18, 2023 18:35
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