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GiantRockFromSpace posted:I mean, one of Yi Sang's biggest works is called "The Wings". I wouldn't be surprised even if the themes are not related. Yeah that's the one we've both mentioned reading, and... Yeah. No there's a reason the Wings of the World are called what they are, and why our boy is so important to the plot. Even just looking at a scattered handful of the poems from his other big work, Crow's Eye View (which is what his EGO is named for) gives a lot of heavy themes of depersonalization, mirrors and reflection, other selves, image and imago, just... It's heavy and dense and uncomfortable but absolutely worth giving some time.
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Mar 18, 2023 00:43
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Hmm, I guess I can try and give a shorthand on it. Spoilers for the end of The Wings: Yi Sang's final conclusion is that the fighting between himself and his wife Yon is ultimately due to the fact that, even if the two of them hadn't actually done anything wrong to one another, they remain unable to understand each other. This would remain true even if they tried to explain the reasons for their behavior and defend themselves by outlining why they took the actions they did. The poet sadly laments that this is the nature of humanity, while the point is emphasized by a siren going off at noon and him being surrounded by a rush of activity. The final few paragraphs have Yi Sang commenting about how he can feel the itching of the stubs of phantasmal wings under his arms, which are the remnants of his hope and ambition, and how he wants to shout for them to spread out and let him fly once more. The idea that there is something inherently rotten with the poet, taken as a representative of humanity whose overall nature is depicted as a vast faceless crowd in a large city, which can only be resolved through changing his nature so that he can once again find the strength within himself to have hope for a brighter future (and finally be able to understand other humans) is pretty much being dead on paralleled by Project Moon. Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 01:00
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I thought it was just about a guy being mad that his wife is the breadwinner by prostituting herself but then again I only heard other people's outlines
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Mar 18, 2023 01:43
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Junpei posted:I thought it was just about a guy being mad that his wife is the breadwinner by prostituting herself but then again I only heard other people's outlines There's no anger in this piece, other than possibly anger at the world itself or from the protagonist at himself for letting his dreams and ambitions (the titular Wings) wither and fade. He's a kept person, basically treated like a housepet. His wife gives him an allowance that he basically does not / can not spend because he's practically forgotten the significance or meaning of money. He entertains himself in her absence by watching the sunlight dapple through her makeup, and using a magnifying glass to scorch segments of the toilet paper he's not even allowed to use. There's a lot of parallels between the protagonist character (only referred to as "I" throughout, since the story has no dialogue at all) and Korea itself at the time: Yi Sang was living and dying right in the thickest point of Japan's post-war occupation of the country, and if I have read the accounts correctly he went on to die less than a year after The Wings was released in a Japanese prison due to his (at this point several years ongoing) tuberculosis. You can find a very clean scan of the work at a publication site named after the entity Coronzon.
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Mar 18, 2023 02:13
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To drag things back to the game itself a little: I think I now have what is pretty much going to be my default "mash Win Rate button, collect exp" team for Level 30 Exp Luxcavations, which is Zwei Sinclair (fully uptied), and regular Faust, Heathcliff, Hong Lu, and Ishmael, along with everybody else on default for their passives. Is this efficient? Who knows! But it always seems to work barring truly abysmal first turn RNG and trying to sub out any of the characters resulted in me getting pounded to death, so there it is. Also only got 3-21 left to EX and 3-22 left for story. I think I can get 3-21 down from 11 turns to 10 with just a little bit more leveling/uptying Liu Gregor/better RNG, but I think I might have to grind a bit more to prep for Kromer herself with how everybody's talking about that fight. Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 03:14
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I got Faust's Fluid Sac EGO from the paid battle pass and it's stupid good as you would expect from an EGO is that is simply her base ego but better. At max uptie it's 16-24 power, aoe targets 5 slots over 3, restores 15 SP and 15% of max hp to the party and its sin requirements are much easier to meet and matches Lob Corp Remnant Faust's skills perfectly. I've always struggled to get pride into a decent party, but it uses Gloam, Lust, and Envy so I can pretty much spam it in any fight with my usual go to of Lob Corp Faust, W Corp Don, and Tingtang Hong Lu.
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Mar 18, 2023 04:08
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Fluid Sac will probably make L Corp Remnant Faust's best ID unless Kromer has Gloom and either Lust or Envy in her kit.
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Mar 18, 2023 05:44
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What EGO slots actually compete with each other at this point? Legerdemain vs Suddenly One Day for Gregor ZAYIN and 4th Match Flame vs Wishing Cairn for Yi Sang TETH? Assuming that the two new Telepoles are the same tier as Heathcliff's, Fluid Sac vs Telepole on Faust HE will be next, but nothing else right
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Mar 18, 2023 05:50
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I'm actually unclear on the Legerdemain use case.
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Mar 18, 2023 06:08
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Google Jeb Bush posted:I'm actually unclear on the Legerdemain use case. It's a ZAYIN AOE that G Corp Gregor can feed on his own, letting it plug into any team comp.
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Mar 18, 2023 06:09
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It's also kinda objectively better than Suddenly One Day since its passive isn't poo poo. Maggots is basically Fairy and being able to inflict it by just getting a gluttony Absolute Resonance is insane, compared to SOD which does poo poo healing and drains 15 points of sanity a turn from a random ally when Greg is below 25% HP. And a spammable AoE with an 18 min roll is very, very nice.
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Mar 18, 2023 06:32
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Legerdemain is an EGO that has the same cost (4 total Sins) and just about the same power as the single-target Zayin EGO, except it's a three-target AOE. And it's not even a case where it's made up for in the abilities being weaker or the passive being worse, because the passive is good and being able to Paralyze two or three targets and zero out their coins can be incredibly powerful. (Just be careful with it and check whether enemy coins are plus and minus. If you use Tremor, it's even got a Tremor effect and a Tremor Burst. And it's even pretty well-supported in terms of its constituent Sins, and since EGO still count for their main Sin, once you use it once you only need three other Sins to do it again the next turn. That's viable in an Abnormality fight and basically trivial in multi-round human fights. Like, other EGO are good but Legerdemain has a strong claim to being the best EGO in the game so far, just by virtue of being so cheap for its level of power. Quantity is its own kind of quality.
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Mar 18, 2023 07:05
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Google Jeb Bush posted:I'm actually unclear on the Legerdemain use case. The posters above have it pretty much right: Better / equivalent color cost, area of effect, insanely good passive with a powerful unique debuff (compared to Suddenly's actively-harmful passive), decent roll. Likewise the same vibes (good passive, good effect, AoE, reliable colors, nice roll) mean Fluid Sac is going to be very attractive, although I will point out that while Lob Corp Faust has the right colors to contribute to fueling it, she definitely doesn't have the right ratio of them, and its cost is prohibitively high for use without several other identities backing it up. I think as long as Faust can contribute at least one of the three then any Identity can work well with it.
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Mar 18, 2023 07:07
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GilliamYaeger posted:It's also kinda objectively better than Suddenly One Day since its passive isn't poo poo. Maggots is basically Fairy and being able to inflict it by just getting a gluttony Absolute Resonance is insane, compared to SOD which does poo poo healing and drains 15 points of sanity a turn from a random ally when Greg is below 25% HP. you dont even need a gluttony a-res; I procced it on a turn where I only had two gluttonies on the entire chain, and they were as far apart as physically possible.
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Mar 18, 2023 15:44
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DuoRogue posted:you dont even need a gluttony a-res; I procced it on a turn where I only had two gluttonies on the entire chain, and they were as far apart as physically possible. Yeah, Maggots is gluttony resonance, not gluttony absolute resonance.
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Mar 18, 2023 16:09
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despite saying "On hit, inflict 5 Maggots at a (Gluttony Abs. x8)% chance." I don't think i've ever gotten a definitive answer on how abs works anyway. I'm just assuming that a) this is a typo and b) its like Res but it only counts stuff in an a-res (so a 4-chain a-res would be an abs of 4)
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Mar 18, 2023 16:19
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Got through my dailies and 3-21 EX, so the only thing left to try out was the dungeon. Majority of it was fine, but Kromer absolutely shredded me to pieces with just base Identities. I'm thinking I might just need to say screw it and come back with 00s and 000s, but I'm not even sure what I can bring to the fight that actually helps with my current lineup. (Which I suppose I should list for good measure: Yi Sang - Blade Lineage, Seven Section Faust - Lob Corp Don Quixote - Shi Section Ryoshu - None Meursault - N Corp Hong Lu - None Heathcliff - R Corp Ishmael - Shi Section Rodion - N Corp Sinclair - Zwei Section Outis - G Corp, Blade Lineage Gregor - Liu Section) Jossar fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 16:23
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Jossar posted:Got through my dailies and 3-21 EX, so the only thing left to try out was the dungeon. Four that make sense to me for Kromer would be Blade Lineage Yi Sang, Lob Faust, Base Sinclair and Base Outis. If you have the paid battle pass Faust has an incredible Fluid Sac, so it's worth grinding it out. G Gregor or W Mersault with Pursuance EGO would be an ideal fifth or replacement if you are looking for 000s. G Gregor is just a great character and though W Mersault isn't very good, Pursuance is good enough on it's own to make up for it.
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Mar 18, 2023 16:40
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I do not have the battlepass, but it's still enough of a shopping list to look into as is. I'm kind of waiting on the Faust Who Grips gacha/Enkephalin spending mini-event/planned changes to dungeons to go in hard on spending/farming but now that I know I'm absolutely not beating Kromer in the next few days, just wanted to figure out where to focus instead. Which is primarily going to be the Alt-Identities as most of my base team is at around the low-mid 20s. Thanks!
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Mar 18, 2023 16:43
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DuoRogue posted:despite saying "On hit, inflict 5 Maggots at a (Gluttony Abs. x8)% chance." Once you activate absolute resonance that's it, every other sin of that colour regardless of chain is also in absolute resonance. It just needs that initial 3 chain. So I would assume that for Gregor's Lantern it just isn't checking for if you activated resonance or made the 3 chain for absolute resonance when it runs the chance calculation Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 16:52
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somehow i missed that legerdemain was multi-target yeah, i guess if it's three times as good as i thought it was that might change my ranking
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Mar 18, 2023 18:42
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Obsession is a certain kind of sin. (Team for most of the dungeon was Faust, Meursalt, Heathcliff, Hong Lu, and Ishmael. Team for the Kromer fight was Yi Sang, Faust, Outis, Sinclair, and Hong Lu.) As it turns out, if you go back and figure out the battle system in depth to truly know what you're doing (and read a guide on Kromer's patterns), you can in fact win with all base identities. Surprisingly, the only significant damage I took during the fight was because I made a mistake and let Kromer get an AoE off, but even then everybody lived to the end. Definitely feels satisfying after all the time I spent smacking my head against Chapter 3. Now time to go and farm! Jossar fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 19:43
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Jossar posted:Obsession is a certain kind of sin. What was your main strat, if I may ask?
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Mar 18, 2023 19:55
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:What was your main strat, if I may ask? This guy on reddit gives the whole of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/limbuscompany/comments/11ncikh/full_guide_for_dungeon_322_post_patch_buff/ The short version is spoilered below: Kromer is a gimmick boss. You minimize the amount of damage she can do by shoving her via Defense buttons to attack people with resistance to Pierce, while separately making sure to build up EGO resources and otherwise prepare yourself for Turn 5, at which point she pulls out a unique attack called "I'll Claim Your Life" or something similar. If you've been building up EGO resources, have Outis fire off To Páthos Máthos and under most circumstances it has a high enough attack bonus to win the clash. Kromer is then staggered for the remainder of the turn and the next, and with your skill boosts in place, you should be able to smack her down to her actual stagger bar. This staggers her for several additional turns, more than enough time to drop Kromer to 0, ending her first phase. Phase 2 is pretty much just button mashing/winning clashes against her Lust skills, although if you're not confident about winning a clash, you can still try to reroute to a character with Pierce resistance. Make sure to dump all your EGO resources as relevant to win clashes against all of her Wrath skills. You can try to win a Wrath skill clash with your normal skills, but failing to do so hurts a lot, so you'd better be very confident that you have the numerical advantage. There's more mechanics that can be involved - like the Maw taking additional damage in certain turns, but I found it was unnecessary, and I even failed the mid-fight Sin check with few repercussions. Honestly, I wasn't even that trigger happy about firing off Defense in place of normal skills, though I did still do it a few times. As people have commented, because winning clashes is the biggest part of the game right now, making sure that you do so strategically pretty much trumps all other considerations including status effects, though you of course still want to fire them off as best/most favorable to you, especially if you know you're about to hit a big Stagger turn. Jossar fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 20:07
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Lord_Magmar posted:Once you activate absolute resonance that's it, every other sin of that colour regardless of chain is also in absolute resonance. It just needs that initial 3 chain. So I would assume that for Gregor's Lantern it just isn't checking for if you activated resonance or made the 3 chain for absolute resonance when it runs the chance calculation you still didn't explain what "gluttony abs" is, and how to tell how much of it I have :v every time i ask about it, I get an explanation about absolute resonance, which isn't what i need. consistently! its like "abs." is cursed, or something.
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Mar 18, 2023 20:38
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DuoRogue posted:you still didn't explain what "gluttony abs" is, and how to tell how much of it I have :v It literally just stands for absolute resonance. Chain of 3 + however many more gluttony sin skills you can muster. If you have a chain of 3 and then 2 random ones that's 5 gluttony abs. If you only have a chain of 2 then it's 0. It's not that complicated.
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Mar 18, 2023 20:46
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DuoRogue posted:you still didn't explain what "gluttony abs" is, and how to tell how much of it I have :v Right sorry yeah, Abs. is just short for Absolute resonance. If the passive is activating on any resonance at all being made that is probably a bug. So the way the passive is supposed to work based on its description, is that whenever you activate absolute resonance, the chance of Gregor's passive activating is increased by 8% for every gluttony skill you used that turn regardless of if they are chained together. So long as one chain of 3 turns absolute resonance on for the turn. So multiple chains of 2 or less should not ever matter for his passive. But as soon as one chain of 3 exists it turns on and uses all gluttony skills that turn in its chance to activate calculation. My assumption is it isn't actually checking for absolute resonance happening or not, it is just calculating the 8% activation chance per gluttony skill used. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 20:52
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K Prime posted:It literally just stands for absolute resonance. Chain of 3 + however many more gluttony sin skills you can muster. If you have a chain of 3 and then 2 random ones that's 5 gluttony abs. If you only have a chain of 2 then it's 0. It's not that complicated. except as DuoRogue originally said, the legerdemain maggot passive that's supposed to be based on "gluttony abs." triggers even on turns without absolute resonance so the way the game actually works and the way it claims to work are somehow different. is it a bug? probably. how specifically does it determine that proc chance? nobody knows
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Mar 18, 2023 20:57
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:except as DuoRogue originally said, the legerdemain maggot passive that's supposed to be based on "gluttony abs." triggers even on turns without absolute resonance As I said, it is probably just not checking for the absolute resonance thing, but still doing the 8% per gluttony skill used roll. Basically Gregor's Lantern passive is turning on with any resonance rather than only Absolute Resonance. From a code perspective, anything that is calculating based on the number of skills resonating, Absolute or otherwise, should be the same code. The Absolute Resonance check should be a separate unrelated code. The check for Absolute Resonance happening should come first, and then you call the skill use counting method to provide how many skills are resonating. If the number of normal Resonance is required for a calculation then the code just calls the method without checking for Absolute resonance occurring. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 20:58
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 Presumably for Limbus, Angela would be replaced with a picture of Dante panicking. EDIT: Oh right, now that I have access to both the level 20/30 for abnos, I gotta keep track as to whether I've done both for each day to get the full Lunacy reward (until they're all cleared once). Eh, I'll start worrying about it after reset and go from there. Jossar fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 21:04
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...okay, so I decided to I decided to try 3-22, and outside of the fact checks here have a secret -50% modifier to heads because I failed all of them and Ishmael making me convinced single coin skills are useless I don't care about the maths, I managed to advance until a failed check made me fight 3 dogs so I quit and tried to go back to do another event... except that freezes the game and when I resume, I end up with this: Restoring to checkpoint seems to fix this... until I go to another event node. A battle node seems to fix it but drat it. EDIT: Aaaand the battle I went into is VS 4 abno inquisitors. Yeah I'm restarting this poo poo, gently caress this dungeon.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:50
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Sacristy is probably the hardest fight in the dungeon and completely optional. IIRC, it only allows you to get an item that's part of a set needed to skip an easier fight later on.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:52
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SITB posted:Sacristy is probably the hardest fight in the dungeon and completely optional. IIRC, it only allows you to get an item that's part of a set needed to skip an easier fight later on. Oh no, it was not Sacristy, it was the Abno just left of the middle floor 2 checkpoint. Also 3 dogs is easier? I found the floor 1 ones to be hell even when making sure only 1 was frenzied at a time.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:53
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Yeah, I kinda just looked at whatever the abnos were, then peaced out to rearrange my team to specifically deal with them based on their damage weaknesses. Even if you're trying to go for the minimum necessary stuff to clear the floor, them and the Inquisitor abnormalities are the biggest pains in the rear outside of the final boss.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:58
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you people didn't tell me that g corp gregor (at t3?) also looks super cool
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Mar 19, 2023 00:51
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Ishmael making me convinced single coin skills are useless they... are, tbh. Both for clashing and for damage, unless their min is super high, they're usually just kind of worse. As far as damage goes; a 2C [5]+0 deals the same damage as a 1C [10]+0, except the [5] can stagger on the first hit and get bonus damage on the second. If you add modifiers, lets compare, say, Kurokumo Hong Lu S2 to G Corp Outis' S3. The former, assuming it activates, is a 4C [5]+4, meaning it caps at 21 power. Outis, meanwhile, is a 1C [6]+16, capping at 22 power. However, as for damage, hong lu actually deals, assuming one heads on the first die (poor luck), 9+9+9+9, or 36; again, this is with BAD luck for him, mine usually gets 17 on the final die, meaning the damage far outpaces outis' 22. Second, clashing. There are two things I want to note here; what rolling multiple dice does to the likeliest number, and the fact the coin system directly benefits pages with more dice. If you roll 1d12, you will get all 12 options equally; a 7+ in this system is, in fact, a 50%. If you run 2d6, then a 7 is actually the most likely outcome by a huge margin, making 7+ happen much more often than not. While it max rolls less often, the "effective minimum" is much higher. Since consistency benefits the player far more than it benefits the enemy, since we're the ones doing actual planning, that's point one in favor of multiple coins. Second; a 4C [4]+2 (r corp heathcliff s2) is a range of 4-12. a 1C [7]+16 (kurokumo rodion s3) is a range of 7-23. Assuming the enemy has neutral sanity (ie, an abnormality) and the player has +45, the chance of winning against a 1C [3]+10 for the former skill is 93.75, while the latter is an 85%. you know, despite the fact the [3]+10 always wins on a heads no matter what the [4]+2 gets. Because the [4]+2 only needs the [3]+10 to land tails once in four rounds, the chance of that not happening is (1/2)^4, or 6.25%. Meanwhile, even though the [7]+16 wins no matter what on the 70% heads, and only loses half the time on the 30% tails, thats still a 15% chance to lose, assuming you get a bad roll and the enemy gets a good roll. Thats a 1 in 7, roughly; hardly rare in the grand scheme of things, and over TWICE as common as the 1 in 16 the multi-coin is taking part in. also, rolling tails on mutilate feels bad
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Mar 19, 2023 01:00
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Google Jeb Bush posted:you people didn't tell me that g corp gregor (at t3?) also looks super cool I would, if I could. As apologies, have this picture of my boy, Zwei Sinclair:  To tie into the above conversation, despite it feeling like double coins are better overall, I do really like his single coin Sloth skill (Strong Strike), which in addition to being a 20 hit if the coin procs, also automatically guarantees an ally gets one less damage for the rest of the turn and Bursts Tremor/gives 2 Blunt Fragility to an enemy if it hits. Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 19, 2023 |
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Mar 19, 2023 01:01
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Honestly, I'm almost fine with what they probably intended with single coin skills in Limbus Company. Multi-coin skills can safely lose a coinflip or two but are going to have final numbers that are kind of mediocre, and single coin skills are big enough that their highs are going to blow out most attacks so you're fine if you can build your sanity up. The problem is that the numbers for a lot of single-hit skills just feel undertuned, so 3* IDs are the only ones who get one coin skills that feel like they're worth the risk.
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Mar 19, 2023 01:18
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Good posts. I'd say that it's true, the best ST coins are the ones with high values in general: Ishmael and Outis' S3 for example, 6 base is good enough to deal with multicoins and 20 is EGO tier in terms of clash. On another note, also cleared 3-22 with Base EGOs after multiple tries!   (Could have brought a support Ryoshu or Gregor or Rodnya in retrospect) Pretty much what Jossar said, albeit Floor 3 was a bit dicy since some mainstays started losing too much HP and someone died at Kromer, but I started alternating staggers until she died. Took me a few attempts to fully realize how to redirect the attacks. And now... I guess now I'm more free on who to finally uptie. Honestly leaning on improving the meh base identities like Gregor for G Gregor, or maybe R Corp Ishmael. Or Tingtang Hong Lu finally, even if base Hong Lu is absolutely top tier.
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Mar 19, 2023 01:27
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Honestly, I'm almost fine with what they probably intended with single coin skills in Limbus Company. Multi-coin skills can safely lose a coinflip or two but are going to have final numbers that are kind of mediocre, and single coin skills are big enough that their highs are going to blow out most attacks so you're fine if you can build your sanity up. The problem is that the numbers for a lot of single-hit skills just feel undertuned, so 3* IDs are the only ones who get one coin skills that feel like they're worth the risk. single coin skills need good mins. g corp outis' 6+16 fills me with rage
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Mar 19, 2023 01:29
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