|
Centrist Committee posted:sports homer for imperialism smh no I just think we all have less choice about what we are. take something like the idea of America. There is the myth, all the civic religion, the origin story, the rituals, the community of participants, etc. There is also the actual materially existing things that myth is about, Americans and the actual apparatus of the state, the place itself, etc. I would say most of us here have judgement of, critique of, both the myth and the place. But I think that it’s an illusion that one can cease participation in what one is from. here’s another way to understand that. look at Internet atheists. they often are rejecting and reacting to evangelical Christianity. but after conversation their belief structures ( but not the specific beliefs!) usually remain the same. they very often even remain evangelical, they even still proselytize just with their new content. now this is obvious if one is thinking dialectically. There is a relationship between critique/judgement and support especially in apocalyptic thinking. I am still in both the myth and material America, one can’t escape origins unless they are fully broken. it’s a different situation for those outside(euro and can). y’all aren’t participating in, in the first place, your origin is ideological and materially elsewhere.
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 14:39 |
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:my father in law gets cuban cigars routed through switzerland somehow. some business guy hookup I used to run into Canadian merchant sailors who would sell Cuban cigars. nearly all of them would buy them while doing sex tourism to uh pay for the trip. as a rule I don’t ever buy Cuban cigars because this is often the “somehow”. god I haven’t had a cigar in a long time almost a decade. oh man I want a big gauge maduro.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
That’s what she said
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 19:42
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:But I think that it’s an illusion that one can cease participation in what one is from. I'm going to stop you right there. You can cease participating in war, in fact it's a classic sign of a failing society that people do. Enduring the Great War: Combat, Morale and Collapse in the German and British Armies, 1914–1918 S.L.A. Marshall said: "Morale is the thinking of an army. It is the whole complex body of an army's thought: The way it feels about the soil and about the people from which it springs. The way that it feels about their cause and their politics as compared with other causes and other politics. The way that it feels about its friends and allies, as well as its enemies. About its commanders and goldbricks. About food and shelter. Duty and leisure. Payday and sex. Militarism and civilianism. Freedom and slavery. Work and want. Weapons and comradeship. Bunk fatigue and drill. Discipline and disorder. Life and death. God and the devil" How does this manifest? "Already in the autumn of 1917, it had not been uncommon for troop transports from Russia to arrive on the Western Front having lost 10 per cent of their strength en route, and by late May 1918, according to the army group commander, Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria, the proportion of men missing was often as high as 20 per cent. During the summer and autumn of 1918, this behavior spread to fresh drafts being sent to the Field Army from Germany. Assuming that desertion among these men was similar to that encountered on transports from Russia, then it is possible that in the final five months of the war between 130,000 and 180,000 men absconded from trains traveling to the front. Although it is worth noting that 80 per cent of reinforcements did choose to remain on the transports and were absorbed into combat units, this nonetheless represented a serious loss for an army which was already in the middle of a manpower crisis. Moreover, far from simply being, in Deist's phrase, a "covert strike" against the war, men on the transports not only deserted but openly challenged authority, doing everything possible to draw attention to their disillusionment with the war and reluctance to fight." You're a sailor, you know as well as anyone people can jump ship or shirk. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:29 on Mar 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:I'm going to stop you right there. You can cease participating in war, in fact it's a classic sign of a failing society that people do. yes one can stop participating in a war that’s kind of non sequitur to what I’m saying though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:yes one can stop participating in a war that’s kind of non sequitur to what I’m saying though. You don't have to, and most people won't, participate in something that is entirely a fiction. A fiction will crumble when it's tested, because that's when people really look to these beliefs and have to weigh what it means to them against their lives, material security etc. and what people ITT are saying in a variety of different ways is that America as currently organized is barely functioning now, it will not survive a major test. You don't have to vote, care about voting, volunteer for the military, show up for the draft unless they send MPs etc. etc. The more the undergirding material and social conditions that allowed people to believe in those myths is chipped away, the more they will opt for non participation. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:35 on Mar 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:32
|
|
|
Well it survived covid, for now. There was some straining at the seams, but it's still chugging along. I wouldn't want to add another crisis on top of it though. Edit: Well at least I would be looking at how to fix things instead of making them worse. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 20:36 on Mar 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:34
|
|
|
also americans are fat, lazy, stupid assholes
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:34
|
|
|
Lostconfused posted:Well it survived covid, for now. It survived covid by capitulating. The covid thread would make this argument better, but the decision was made to not demand anything from anyone, and just give up while the disease continues unabated. It happened to align with the wishes of the ruling class, of course, but there was nothing America could offer in exchange for not going to Applebee's, so it survived by pretending the crisis didn't exist, for now. Which overlaps with this I suppose, yellowcar posted:also americans are fat, lazy, stupid assholes American have been made into fat, lazy, stupid assholes, though this is neither here nor there. Trying to extract military service, or even things like rationing, from fat, lazy, stupid assholes is yet another barrier that the same ruling class will have to face should they want to do any of these things they say they want to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:36
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:no I just think we all have less choice about what we are. take something like the idea of America. There is the myth, all the civic religion, the origin story, the rituals, the community of participants, etc. There is also the actual materially existing things that myth is about, Americans and the actual apparatus of the state, the place itself, etc. can u dumb this down for me, because it sounds like you just like america and want to see it play well in ww3 but are grasping for some kind of external validation of your position
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:37
|
|
|
yellowcar posted:also americans are fat, lazy, stupid assholes Yeah but that is an outcome of when the empire is still mostly functioning, how about when actually things get much worse? A situation like food prices/availability can’t be ignored and the US isn’t even at war. Ukraine is a war that is far away, and the average American has no clue or really cares to, but it is still affecting their life.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:40
|
|
|
Centrist Committee posted:can u dumb this down for me, because it sounds like you just like america and want to see it play well in ww3 but are grasping for some kind of external validation of your position America = Camelot Healthcare = The Grail
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:42
|
|
|
the US can simulate a draft by drawing in sonic autists.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:49
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:the US can simulate a draft by drawing in sonic autists. Everyone still believes in Sonic, it is the one thing that unites all Americans and the being we will have give our lives for without question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:50
|
|
|
one of the newer recruitment ads basically boils down to "join the army, you might make a friend"
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:51
|
|
|
yellowcar posted:one of the newer recruitment ads basically boils down to "join the army, you might make a friend" Kind of a doubled edged sword imo because I now have lifelong friendships with people who have coke problems and are on their second divorce.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:52
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:You don't have to, and most people won't, participate in something that is entirely a fiction. Of course not. But that is again, entirely non sequitur.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:52
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:Of course not. But that is again, entirely non sequitur. Centrist Committee posted:can u dumb this down for me, because it sounds like you just like america and want to see it play well in ww3 but are grasping for some kind of external validation of your position
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:53
|
|
|
tbh selling the army as someplace where you can make friends might genuinely attract lonely souls.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:55
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:Kind of a doubled edged sword imo because I now have lifelong friendships with people who have coke problems and are on their second divorce. it's more that today young people are more alienated socially than ever before
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 20:58
|
|
|
yellowcar posted:it's more that today young people are more alienated socially than ever before I guess Army of One backfired.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 21:06
|
|
|
Does the US expect China to keep shipping goods once war is declared? I don’t really think we could spool up production before running out of stuff that’s currently being supplied by China. It doesn’t seem either like we have redundant sourcing for all essential items so what’s the plan exactly
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 21:09
|
|
|
celadon posted:Does the US expect China to keep shipping goods once war is declared? I don’t really think we could spool up production before running out of stuff that’s currently being supplied by China. It doesn’t seem either like we have redundant sourcing for all essential items so what’s the plan exactly The free market
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 21:13
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:tbh selling the army as someplace where you can make friends might genuinely attract lonely souls. Sometimes you want to go Where everybody knows your name And they're always glad you came You want to be where you can see Our troubles are all the same You want to be where everybody knows your name
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 21:45
|
|
|
celadon posted:plan Lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 22:01
|
|
|
Centrist Committee posted:can u dumb this down for me, I think we can concretize and contextualize it. Where are you from?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 22:12
|
|
|
celadon posted:Does the US expect China to keep shipping goods once war is declared? Both are shoulder deep up each other’s assholes supply chain wise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 22:14
|
|
|
celadon posted:Does the US expect China to keep shipping goods once war is declared? I don’t really think we could spool up production before running out of stuff that’s currently being supplied by China. It doesn’t seem either like we have redundant sourcing for all essential items so what’s the plan exactly ah but have you considered that all our enemies are stupid, and evil, and we’re the best? no? sounds like you love americas enemies op
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:I think we can concretize and contextualize it. Nationalism, but intellectually
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 00:05
|
|
|
The usa definitely learned its lesson about just in time delivery after the pandemic. I bet there's all sorts of essential stockpiles just off camera
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 00:11
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/snekotron/status/1637138393036406784quote:Took some time today to flip through the 2024 Pentagon budget proposal, the unprecedented $842B budget. US MIC in a nutshell. TL;DR is that the unprecedented budget is just to account for inflation and grift and not actual increase in deliveries.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 00:29
|
|
|
The waffen must be made more wunder at any cost
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 04:53
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:
I can sorta almost maybe if I squint see your point that all Americans are permanently tainted by Americanization and are unable to transcend it due to their base nature of birth, but lmao that definitely also applies to Canada and Europe, countries whose only goals are to debase themselves to Amerikkka thought. Bar Ran Dun posted:I think we can concretize and contextualize it. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:04
|
|
|
Turtle Watch posted:I can sorta almost maybe if I squint see your point that all Americans are permanently tainted by Americanization and are unable to transcend it due to their base nature of birth, but lmao that definitely also applies to Canada and Europe, countries whose only goals are to debase themselves to Amerikkka thought. Can you get cancer from cringing too hard?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:18
|
|
|
Turtle Watch posted:I can sorta almost maybe if I squint see your point that all Americans are permanently tainted by Americanization and are unable to transcend it due to their base nature of birth, but lmao that definitely also applies to Canada and Europe, countries whose only goals are to debase themselves to Amerikkka thought. I spent 4 months deliberately conditioning myself to forget that tweet, rear end in a top hat
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 08:17
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:I think we can concretize and contextualize it. born and raised in america, dta
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
Doktor Avalanche posted:didn't the nazi military industry make these complicated tanks and vehicles that broke down quickly and couldn't be repaired while the soviets just churned out boxes with wheels/tank treads which worked in anything for a bit more time than their nazi counterparts People talk a lot of poo poo about Nazi tanks being overcomplicated pieces of poo poo but not enough time talking about how the Nazi strategic plan was to seize Eastern European oil fields because they lacked sufficient access to domestic oil Then when they seized said oil fields, they realized that they had been pretty thoroughly sabotaged and also the refining capacity had been sabotaged and that the logistics of getting the oil products back to Germany would take years to build in any event oopsy war over Fascists always promise national autarky but they are dumb fucks (because every aspect of fascism is a self-defeating nightmare that accomplishes only more misery and succeeds only on the basis of the heaping the most misery on people the majority hates) and can't national autarky their way out of a paper bag.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 19:56
|
|
|
Kind of the same deal with imperial Japan sack tapping America with a long term strategic plan of "lol, lmao" when comparing industrial output Every fascist's strategic plan seems to hinge on a) the other guy being a limp-dicked coward who will never fight back, b) superior racial genetics makes real-world logistics problems not exist for the master race
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 20:01
|
|
|
Japan thought the entire USN would put to sea immediately to save MacArthur, where they would be defeated either piecemeal or in a second Tsushima. To their credit, that’s exactly what they did with Task Force Z and the US Asiatic Fleet. Rapidly steaming to the Philippines had been the US war plan in the 20’s, but by waiting that extra few years to enter the war, the US had already seen the Royal Navy lose capital ships to airpower and submarines. Rather than rushing in, they slowly advanced under an air umbrella over a period of years, which also magnified all of their industrial and logistical strengths and Japan’s weaknesses. It’s been pointed out that, and this may sound strange, perhaps Pearl Harbour was too effective, because it left the USN with only submarines and carriers. That meant the US had to avoid the decisive surface gun battle that Japan might have won, especially in 1942, and also that the weapons Japan would face were the two the US either already had a technological, industrial or doctrinal edge in, or eventually would. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:51 on Mar 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 14:39 |
|
|
celadon posted:Does the US expect China to keep shipping goods once war is declared? I don’t really think we could spool up production before running out of stuff that’s currently being supplied by China. It doesn’t seem either like we have redundant sourcing for all essential items so what’s the plan exactly Destroy the PLAN in 48 hours, nuclear war in 72
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 20:50
|
|
