|
Nuns with Guns posted:They wouldn't have listened because Podima was already an IK/mod or do you mean something else? I was more referring to the mod team at the time of this event in a broad sense. But yeah, you're probably correct about that. They were assumed to be "good" because they had the star, despite there being very little or possibly zero vetting. Peachfart posted:No reason to be super mad about all this, but it does show that the community should vet positions. If a mod if being made for a particular forum, ask the forum. If an admin is being made, ask SAD and make an announcement if you want. Here's the real corollary to that: since this vetting has not been happening and it's been by fiat of existing IKs or mods, how do we possibly deal with any lovely mods who have already been entrenched? Or for that matter, admins? Maybe admins are rare enough that it would be unlikely to see one elevated except that literally just happened.
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:02 |
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:what other large mammals could we nominate, surely there are others there are enough large mammals on the admin team
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:44
|
|
|
Staluigi posted:Just pull the ancient Rome card and nominate a horse to the administration. [The 'holding hand to the earpiece' bit] Oh uh, or ... OK if that already ... well, Enough horsing around.  I do think this is a net positive once the dust settles, for reasons other people have said - the incident was dealt with promptly, and it'll lead to more consultation on who is appointed as an admin, which will probably reduce people feeling poorly about the admins who do actually get appointed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:45
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:Were the concerns aired the ones that were expressed to Podima or was this something that was taken outside that circle? I'm glad this all came out because Jesus Christ gently caress all this poo poo, but if this was all dismissed by other people before that needs to be taken care of, too. this is a huge problem
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:47
|
|
|
Would not have guessed Podima had this kind of background. What a trip!
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:51
|
|
|
Tarnop posted:I can't speak for anyone else but today felt like a net positive. Getting this poo poo out in the open is good. Handling it quickly was good. Jeff woke up. The other new admins seem fine. Sagas is reopening and Rhino's PowerPoint ruled. Multiple people who told us what happened in this thread have said they're happy they have closure. Yeah really. Just like with the IK who went peculiar the other day, it should be taken as an example of SAD doing what it was set up to do. Yes it was mostly everyone saying "what the gently caress is this?!" But it was everyone saying it together.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:52
|
|
|
Yeah Pod is generally someone with good judgement and doesn't have the personality type to hold grudges or fly off the handle on an issue and cause a big mess. It's a drat shame this is something he was involved in. I'm hoping his responsible stepdown immediately after this was brought up will mean he won't have to buy an alt to post here. Peramene being involved in it is less surprising.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:52
|
|
|
yeah. its shocking to me too that an intj like him would do this. however its clearly an abberation given the types natural inclination towards rationality.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:55
|
|
|
16-bit Butt-Head posted:lol okay this is all fake right this cant be real *looks for hidden cameras* there cant possibly be an admin that ran a riven rape rp discord like this its all a prank lol you got me jeffrey you son of a bitch lmao every time
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:55
|
|
|
Staluigi posted:Just pull the ancient Rome card and nominate a horse to the administration. [The 'holding hand to the earpiece' bit] Oh uh, or ... OK if that already ... well, Lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:58
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I have PMed the OP for details. I do not know what they are referring to. This doesn't need to be a public discussion. Yeeeesh.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 06:59
|
|
|
16-bit Butt-Head posted:lol okay this is all fake right this cant be real *looks for hidden cameras* there cant possibly be an admin that ran a riven rape rp discord like this its all a prank lol you got me jeffrey you son of a bitch Was gonna quote this earlier but seconding the hard lmao at this
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:01
|
|
|
ASAPRockySituation posted:Yeah Pod is generally someone with good judgement and doesn't have the personality type to hold grudges or fly off the handle on an issue and cause a big mess. It's a drat shame this is something he was involved in. I'm hoping his responsible stepdown immediately after this was brought up will mean he won't have to buy an alt to post here. Peramene being involved in it is less surprising. I don't like the other one, so that doesn't make me feel sad." Thank you for your input. e: like fine, vouch for someone's character. But imo it's pretty odd to instantly jump to concern for their well-being, hoping they won't be harassed off the site or whatever, when everyone has barely had time to even figure out what happened Martman fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Mar 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:03
|
|
|
Just lmao at everything on this website
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:03
|
|
|
It was nice to see Bees post again, uhhh...wish it was under...better circumstances..
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:09
|
|
|
The Lord of Hats posted:Full disclosure: I'm a member of that same community--which, yes, is on Discord--and I was a player in these same games, though I was not directly involved in any of the incidents listed, and I would like to wholeheartedly disagree with much of the framing that's presented here--though I'm naturally wordy and this is going to warrant more explanation than a single sentence. The Lord of Hats posted:These are referencing the same incident, in the game IMG--Infinite Magic Glories, which is a LARP adapted to the Discord format--and since it might be in question, was not written by Podima, or by anyone in the community. Characters are prewritten, and there's a casting process--which does include trigger warnings about what people feel comfortable dealing with in the course of the game--there is a lot of drama between characters, and there's a lot of themes that the game attempts to explore and discuss. The Lord of Hats posted:That was the character Meinberg was assigned. As I understand it, did raise it as a question, talked through playing it with the mods--and yes, as shown, Pod talked about what he thought the authorial intent was--and ultimately decided that they were fine going ahead with it as written. And I believe that there was a further check-in, to which Meinberg expressed that they were still fine with it. This is not a case of "change was requested, Pod was mad" Felt like bringing these posts to the forefront because Hats is a good person I trust. From what I've gathered, Podima wasn't privvy to most of these two games, and might not have been approached on there being a problem (apologies if I'm wrong on this), and a bizarre shadow-discord made the situation hard to moderate in good faith. Is this all correct? I think stepping down was the right call because even if Podima's involvement has been overblown, it's still not great for a new admin to have a history where posters did not feel like they could speak to them on issues. But I can see how both Podima and the admin team might not have considered it a severe problem (until people came forward taking umbrage with the decision) Really speaks in favor of having these admin nomination/appointment rituals publicly viewable, so such situations can be ironed out ahead of time. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Mar 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:13
|
|
|
What in the world
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:14
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:For me personally I was fine with mostly whomever because I am burned out and need help. All of us are. I'm not gonna say modding isn't hard when there's four war threads full of perverts posting dead bodies at each other. Even in the best of times its a rough gig, made worse by posters taking everything as personally as possible. Fluffdaddy is right, this incident has been a major step backwards in terms of trust between the user base and the moderation team. Edit: Deleted a bunch of poo poo I wrote because I read this Neurolimal posted:a bunch of stuff that makes me believe that if podima stuck to their guns this thread would have gone way worse Edit: Jeff actually posted about it in the other thread and handled it well Ominous Jazz fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Mar 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:16
|
|
|
Ominous Jazz posted:I don't think this should be thought of as a complete success story. There are still some pretty existential questions around this. Don't forget there was a sister thread closed by jeffry and turned into a "private discussion", and while the matter seems to have resolved itself the question of "what would have happened if he hasn't stepped down" never got resolved. There have been calls for transparency but, again nothing complete. time to shut down the website imo
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:18
|
|
|
what is it going to take for the team running this website to decide to run literally anything by the people that use the website before doing it, because if it's not suddenly appointing The Riven Rapist to admin i don't know what it could possibly be
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:20
|
|
|
Infinite Magic Glories, a LARP adapted to the Discord format,
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:20
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:They wouldn't have listened because Podima was already an IK/mod or do you mean something else? I don't know what anyone else meant, but I only aired my concerns to other RPers. Then gave myself a good dose of learned helplessness, figuring I must just be the problem child or the one who can't handle it, since almost everyone else was trucking along fine and didn't seem to think it was of much concern. I also figured it was more of a problem with that discord community in particular though, than the SA forums.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:21
|
|
|
I've had unpleasant interactions with basement troll pervert goons in fps games, I can't imagine being immersed in a full time RP situation, christ almighty 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:22
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Felt like bringing these posts to the forefront because Hats is a good person I trust. Nah, pod was in a position of power in both games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:22
|
|
|
American McGay posted:Infinite Magic Glories, a LARP adapted to the Discord format, covid truly humbled our greatest institutions
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:23
|
|
|
i still can't believe they had the audacity to have such a specific long rear end loving disclaimer but not include any of the actual freak poo poo lol what the gently caress is wrong with you when you end up in that positon
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:25
|
|
|
Ominous Jazz posted:I'm not gonna say modding isn't hard when there's four war threads full of perverts posting dead bodies at each other. Even in the best of times its a rough gig, made worse by posters taking everything as personally as possible. Maybe instead of Jeffrey->Admins->Mods->IKs it should be Jeffrey -> paid professional community manager -> Admins -> Mods -> IKs. Running mostly on volunteer strangers from the internet might mean these problems are endemic unless managed by a professional. But then again, I don't know. I'm not a community manager.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:26
|
|
|
Vim Fuego posted:Not selling me on joining goon discords here
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:29
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Felt like bringing these posts to the forefront because Hats is a good person I trust. Think I've found your problem
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:30
|
|
|
Meowywitch posted:time to shut down the website imo I'll freely admit I liked the click and clack my phone made when I typed that more than the actual content of my post Edit: I have android if that helps Ominous Jazz fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Mar 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:31
|
|
|
Your phone clicks and clacks when you type??
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:32
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:I was more referring to the mod team at the time of this event in a broad sense. But yeah, you're probably correct about that. They were assumed to be "good" because they had the star, despite there being very little or possibly zero vetting. Yeah, I get how vetting is hard but necessary, and there's been acknowledgement that there really wasn't any follow through done in this mod to admin process. It was all rushed and, well, sometimes you roll a 1 when you leave it to chance.  Bifauxnen posted:I don't know what anyone else meant, but I only aired my concerns to other RPers. Then gave myself a good dose of learned helplessness, figuring I must just be the problem child or the one who can't handle it, since almost everyone else was trucking along fine and didn't seem to think it was of much concern. I also figured it was more of a problem with that discord community in particular though, than the SA forums. It sounds like a safety failure on a number of levels, where some people were in too deep or did have full trust, so a "minority" of concerned voices were publicly quashed and other people quietly tamped their own reservations down. In a social game with barely-connected strangers it can be hard to speak out about that. Honestly, I had a similar experience not too long ago. It was the most recent time I decided to try a TTRPG game with non-SA strangers and hoo boy a great reminder that Vampire: The Masquerade is not the game to risk that with. It is all surprising and disappointing. the SA and adjacent people I've played with have been largely respectful and pretty careful, but I'll admit I haven't been interested in the Mafia-type games because they always seemed a lot more intense.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:35
|
|
|
As someone involved to an extent with parts of this, in ways that I’m not proud of (not game running or moderating in either of the games, other stuff,) I think Podima made some awful decisions and that the roleplaying group had serious structural issues with how to communicate problems I don’t think he’s a bad guy and I think a lot of these issues were from overconfidence in his own capability to juggle game moderation, player emotional safety (as overwrought as the term might sound to people who don’t do roleplaying), and community leadership at the same time, as well as inexperience with setting boundaries in games in terms of content, time management, and emotional investment, but the reasons are ancillary to the fact that people got hurt badly by these screwups There was a culture of minimal boundaries in roleplaying in the group, resulting in a lot of otherwise kinda niche content being shared and celebrated freely, and a whole thing about maximal secrecy of game content that was, I believe, an evolution of the mafia style of traitor game where secrecy is a core aspect. For a while, it seemingly worked (though people like Bifauxnen experienced a lot of in-group vs out-group pressure, because of the lack of boundaries and lack of willingness to consider deeper structural problems, and that should have been a sign that things were not actually okay). They decided to run a game with darker themes and some bafflingly bad content, and because of this past period of success, podima and co didn’t handle things well at all when the cracks started showing in this style of roleplaying and emotional investment without safety guidelines This led to stuff like a separate chat forming with people airing grievances with game structures and content, the mods feeling attacked and pressured by the game slipping out of control, and a whole mess on every level that culminated in the game blowing up and a lot of extra hurt for everyone The takeaway is that open communication is really important, dismissing concerns by asking for trust is a dangerous ask, and loving up can get people seriously harmed Also that it’s a good idea to have an open conversation about admins before appointing them
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:36
|
|
|
Martman posted:e: like fine, vouch for someone's character. But imo it's pretty odd to instantly jump to concern for their well-being, hoping they won't be harassed off the site or whatever, when everyone has barely had time to even figure out what happened Would it have made you happier if I said it is definitely creepy and no brainer grounds to lose admin? The person one conjures in their imagination when this kind of thing is described does not fit the Podima I've seen for years. I probably should've kept it to myself, though, you're right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:39
|
|
|
gently caress me running lmfao
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:39
|
|
|
Just to be fair to friends who have also been through this crazy poo poo, I feel like I should clear up for the record that there wasn't any rape in the Riven RPG. (Or the other related RPG's I was still present for) There was torture though, as an offscreen backstory thing added to my character, (credit to pera for that, not Pod!) then as a more acted-out thing for someone else's character near the end of the campaign. As for me, I thought I was personally fine with that subject matter existing in-game and like they could throw anything at me and I would just roll with it. But I was really surprised and taken off-guard by how upset I got later, when the villain character who did the torturing was seemingly getting reclaimed or redeemed. After playing that game so long by then and being so immersed, it felt like going through the whole "get abused by someone in power and no one wants to listen" experience, while also beating myself up for making such a big deal over something that hadn't even happened in real life. And having even less people to talk to about it, cause how the gently caress do you explain something like that? That's the main reason I indulged in making a post here. The actual thread issue seems all sorted now, and I believe I'm finally recovered from it all now, but it's so rare to have a chance to talk about this weirdass time of my life.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:39
|
|
|
I swear to God every time a major decision is made or resolution to a debate is reached, a blood sacrifice of an absolute freak is required.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:42
|
|
|
I really can't overstate how much I appreciate bees coming forward with this because even as someone who didn't experience the worst of it was just kinda crazy making to be like "this is wrong, I know this is wrong, but so many people are going along with this" and it felt like nothing could be done because it would be considered offsite drama.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:43
|
|
|
Snooze Cruise posted:I really can't overstate how much I appreciate bees coming forward with this because even as someone who didn't experience the worst of it was just kinda crazy making to be like "this is wrong, I know this is wrong, but so many people are going along with this" and it felt like nothing could be done because it would be considered offsite drama. yeah the poster rushing in to claim stolen valor over authorship of the Riven sexual assault discord simulator really acted like Bees was some insane gaslghting stalker determined to smear the name of their discord 24 hour always on role-play community I can only imagine several people would have agreed the same for the sake of the game and insisting that Bees was ruining/spoiling the plot by sharing information in another discord
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:02 |
|
|
Last time I looked at the Trad Games discord it was completely dead. Jeez-O-Pete 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2023 07:51
|
|
