Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

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Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

PurpleXVI posted:

But if being a Sorcerer is your Job, who's your boss and do you have a union?

self-employed, you have to file a 1099 and pay self-employment taxes but you qualify for a personal 401k and that lets you get like up to $60k a year into tax-advantaged space which is a total racket

# ? Mar 19, 2023 07:16

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# ? May 23, 2024 19:57

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I loosely remember an interpretation of the mage's guild of an Elder Scrolls game being pretty much a union.

Unseen University also comes to mind as explicitly said to exist mostly to keep wizards fed, comfortable, and finding other things to occupy their time with than throwing fireballs at everything in sight.

"Here's a research grant to study the ecology of the Greater Athasian Hell Cactus for a decade, that should keep you from having any reason to fireball anyone as well as keep you from earning any XP so you become a bigger problem in the future."

Tarnop posted:

I just get a GPS location of something to fireball on the Srcrr app and no healthcare

A while back I ran a short game where my players were mercenaries in a dystopian future, getting all their jobs via an app and getting paid purely in corporate gift cards. This reminded me of that.

# ? Mar 19, 2023 10:19

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

PurpleXVI posted:

"Here's a research grant to study the ecology of the Greater Athasian Hell Cactus for a decade, that should keep you from having any reason to fireball anyone as well as keep you from earning any XP so you become a bigger problem in the future."

A while back I ran a short game where my players were mercenaries in a dystopian future, getting all their jobs via an app and getting paid purely in corporate gift cards. This reminded me of that.

sounds like you're sending the sorcerer somewhere they'll earn lots of XP

# ? Mar 19, 2023 10:24

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

PurpleXVI posted:

"Here's a research grant to study the ecology of the Greater Athasian Hell Cactus for a decade, that should keep you from having any reason to fireball anyone as well as keep you from earning any XP so you become a bigger problem in the future."

So you're telling me you've never been to an academic conference.

# ? Mar 19, 2023 14:18

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Do the Towers in Dragonlance count as Union Halls?

# ? Mar 19, 2023 16:22

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Do the Towers in Dragonlance count as Union Halls?

Now I'm just imagining season 2 of The Wire but set in Dragonlance.

Ziggy's a kender, obviously.

# ? Mar 19, 2023 16:38

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Lemniscate Blue posted:

So you're telling me you've never been to an academic conference.

I remember hearing a couple of stories about some fields where there are "questions you don't ask during the panels" because that'll start a fight or completely derail anything because they're THE spicy questions in the community.

# ? Mar 19, 2023 20:57

Asterite34: May 19, 2009

PurpleXVI posted:

I remember hearing a couple of stories about some fields where there are "questions you don't ask during the panels" because that'll start a fight or completely derail anything because they're THE spicy questions in the community.

That loving orangutan, bro...

# ? Mar 19, 2023 21:19

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

PurpleXVI posted:

I remember hearing a couple of stories about some fields where there are "questions you don't ask during the panels" because that'll start a fight or completely derail anything because they're THE spicy questions in the community.

There are fields where panel chairs know not to allow certain people to ask questions to certain speakers.

# ? Mar 19, 2023 22:40

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

goatface posted:

There are fields where panel chairs know not to allow certain people to ask questions to certain speakers.

If anyone's got some good, interesting or funny examples, I'd love to hear them. I find that sort of thing fascinating.

# ? Mar 19, 2023 22:47

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

PurpleXVI posted:

I remember hearing a couple of stories about some fields where there are "questions you don't ask during the panels" because that'll start a fight or completely derail anything because they're THE spicy questions in the community.

Henry Kissenger posted:

�The reason that university politics is so vicious is because the stakes are so small�

# ? Mar 19, 2023 23:42

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

PurpleXVI posted:

If anyone's got some good, interesting or funny examples, I'd love to hear them. I find that sort of thing fascinating.

We had a guy who was originally a respected researcher who went quiet and hadn�t been heard from professionally much since he went emeritus.

He gave a 40 minute colloquium on phrenology and how it was cool and good with great insights into sociolinguistic dialect variation. Which mostly involved how he wanted to measure black people�s heads to research AAVE.

It was a loving rough 20 minute Q&A to run. It was also my second ever.

Obviously dude is blacklisted to gently caress.

# ? Mar 20, 2023 00:05

Kestral: Nov 24, 2000; Forum Veteran

PurpleXVI posted:

If anyone's got some good, interesting or funny examples, I'd love to hear them. I find that sort of thing fascinating.

Seconded, this sounds great.

# ? Mar 20, 2023 00:27

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

Most of it's really tedious and comes down to certain people being unable to hold themselves back when talk moves onto their niche topic.

It's fine when people question things respectfully, it's the reason for conference talks. Some people are just incapable of asking a question in a non-hostile manner, and a lot of conference talks are given by nervous post-grad students who really don't know what to do when a grumpy noted professor unloads decades of pre-existing resentment onto them in a long and rambling, heavily loaded question.

The only one I ever saw in person involved the chair telling someone in the crowd "I'm not calling on you, <name>. We all already know you prefer your theory; this is not the time for that argument." That guy was just a known abrasive dick who'd never got over his theory being passed over for another.

# ? Mar 20, 2023 00:58

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

I mean, you're all posting on the traditional games subforum of the Something Awful Forums. You know what nerd arguments are like.

Now just add a bunch of neurotic failchildren, overworked grad students, and old fucks who literally cannot be fired.

# ? Mar 20, 2023 10:02

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I mean, you're all posting on the traditional games subforum of the Something Awful Forums. You know what nerd arguments are like.

Now just add a bunch of neurotic failchildren, overworked grad students, and old fucks who literally cannot be fired.

But we repeat ourselves! :v:

# ? Mar 20, 2023 15:49

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

PurpleXVI posted:

Yeah, you would need to remove "generalist" wizards and sorcerers entirely. Have Evokers, Pyromancers, Necromancers, Illusionists, Diviners, etc. and cut the entire segment of overlap with Psionicists out and leave it entirely to the Psionicists.

Maybe in a game where stealth was more important, characters more fundamentally fragile, a Psionicist being able to do Wizard Things, but without Wizard Gestures, Wizard Chants and Wizard Components would matter a lot more as a big mark of difference.

The funny thing is that they already solved the master-of-all-trades problem in 3e with feat trees, but only for fighters who had to choose their specialty as "trips people" or "can swing a chair". Until they eventually took both because they ran out of feats. But telling wizards they have to learn Burning Hands instead of Knock if they want Fireballs next level is sacrilege.

Oh well, what can you do? The heart wants what it wants.

# ? Mar 20, 2023 18:17

Ominous Jazz: Jun 15, 2011; Big D is chillin' over here
Wasteland style

PerniciousKnid posted:

Oh well, what can you do? The heart wants what it wants.

my heart wants sick fighter tricks and stunts and for the rogue to have a purpose other than 2d6 when stabbing

# ? Mar 21, 2023 00:53

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

my heart wants fighters to stand in one place and doing a normal attack 1 or 2 times a turn

# ? Mar 21, 2023 01:08

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

I think exploding 6's on damage would be a cool niche for fighters. No matter how tough the enemy, they always have a chance.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 17:32

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

My favorite suggestion for fighters - you hit something with half your level or less? Boom, it's dead, no save.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 17:47

Admiralty Flag: Jun 7, 2007; to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

PerniciousKnid posted:

I think exploding 6's on damage would be a cool niche for fighters. No matter how tough the enemy, they always have a chance.

My first thought was, "That'd be OP. How about Brutal 1 (reroll all damage dice=1)?"

But then I thought, what about weapon tags that only fighters could access, and only at level X (to prevent dipping)? Each weapon would have a tag like brutal, rending (extra static damage for hooked/backbladed weapons), exploding (probably have to make this d10s or d12s only or it would outweigh all other options), improved crits (range and/or multiplier), defensive, threatening reach, up-close (can use while grappling), armor-piercing (ignore 2 points of non-DEX/non-shield AC if target has at least 4 points of pure armor AC, and yes I know that's worded clumsily), etc.

Of course, they'd probably give the ability away to another class option in a splatbook tout suite and from there it'd go to everyone, but it'd be nice while it lasted.

Edit:

FMguru posted:

My favorite suggestion for fighters - you hit something with half your level or less? Boom, it's dead, no save.

Didn't 1E have a rule that against targets with less than 1 Hit Die, fighters got a number of attacks equal to their level? I mean, it's no fireball, but update that to CR 1/4 or something as the threshold and I could see a setpiece battle where the party is getting swarmed by kobolds or the like, and the fighter is out in front as a bulwark shredding a mob as they try to pull him down.

Admiralty Flag fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 21, 2023

# ? Mar 21, 2023 17:51

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Admiralty Flag posted:

My first thought was, "That'd be OP. How about Brutal 1 (reroll all damage dice=1)?"

But then I thought, what about weapon tags that only fighters could access, and only at level X (to prevent dipping)? Each weapon would have a tag like brutal, rending (extra static damage for hooked/backbladed weapons), exploding (probably have to make this d10s or d12s only or it would outweigh all other options), improved crits (range and/or multiplier), defensive, threatening reach, up-close (can use while grappling), armor-piercing (ignore 2 points of non-DEX/non-shield AC if target has at least 4 points of pure armor AC, and yes I know that's worded clumsily), etc.

Of course, they'd probably give the ability away to another class option in a splatbook tout suite and from there it'd go to everyone, but it'd be nice while it lasted.

Edit:

Didn't 1E have a rule that against targets with less than 1 Hit Die, fighters got a number of attacks equal to their level? I mean, it's no fireball, but update that to CR 1/4 or something as the threshold and I could see a setpiece battle where the party is getting swarmed by kobolds or the like, and the fighter is out in front as a bulwark shredding a mob as they try to pull him down.

I like all of that, and the 1 creature obliterated per level per round is from the AD&D PHB 1e Page 25

Player's Handbook pg. 25 posted:

This excludes melee combat with monsters (q.v.) of less than one
hit die (d8) and non-exceptional (0 level) humans and
semi-humans, i.e. all creatures with less than one eight-sided hit
die. All of these creatures entitle a fighter to attack once for each
of his or her experience levels (See COMBAT)

# ? Mar 21, 2023 18:39

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

It might be cool if fighters could pay a price to guarantee hits. Or maybe just spend hit points directly to increase their dice results

# ? Mar 21, 2023 18:54

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

PerniciousKnid posted:

It might be cool if fighters could pay a price to guarantee hits. Or maybe just spend hit points directly to increase their dice results

Shin Megami Tensei style skills that deal massive physical damage but at cost of HP

# ? Mar 21, 2023 18:57

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Or have a pool of 'X' points based on level and stats, maybe, that they can distribute to any targets in range, no to-hit roll needed and that ignores stuff like DR

# ? Mar 21, 2023 18:58

SkyeAuroline: Nov 12, 2020

edit; ^^^^^ basically what I'm describing

One thing I'm appreciating with my current Godbound game is the fray dice. Alongside your normal attacks, against most cannon fodder you get a "fray die" that's just straight damage applied against valid targets. (Godbound uses hit dice as the basic HP, for most characters it's 0-2 HD of damage but certain words can give you more.) It's a nice approach to that sort of chaff clearing that fighters could benefit from; it's limited in GB to applying to beings with less hit dice than you have levels (max level is 10), and you could probably figure out a similar limitation that lets fighters clear hordes without trivializing important single foes.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 18:59

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

I love the DCC Fighter Deed Die.
Instead of a flat bonus to attack rolls like other classes get, fighters get a die that starts at 1d4 and increases as they go up in levels.
They roll and add their deed die to both attacks and damage. Plus if they roll over a 3 on the deed die they get an extra effect that they define when they make t heir attack (or can be based on the type of weapon they use) such as tripping, disarming, moving, taunting or whatever else is reasonable in the situation.
It makes the fighter this incredibly creative class that feels good every time you make a standard attack.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:01

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Or have a pool of 'X' points based on level and stats, maybe, that they can distribute to any targets in range, no to-hit roll needed and that ignores stuff like DR

I think the problem with operating off of Fighter Mana is that you ultimately get the same thing as Wizards do where after blowing their spell load for the day, they have very little to fall back on.

Maybe operate it like an adrenaline system where you get X points to your pool per round, and certain things(getting hit, missing) give you more Sword Points to throw around? That way there's less tension on the GM perfectly calculating encounters so they don't end up with just the local equivalent of "at-wills" carrying the last five rounds, and there are less options for alpha striking an encounter out of existence. It also gives you a baked-in tactical choice of small swording now or big swording later.

SkyeAuroline posted:

edit; ^^^^^ basically what I'm describing

One thing I'm appreciating with my current Godbound game is the fray dice. Alongside your normal attacks, against most cannon fodder you get a "fray die" that's just straight damage applied against valid targets. (Godbound uses hit dice as the basic HP, for most characters it's 0-2 HD of damage but certain words can give you more.) It's a nice approach to that sort of chaff clearing that fighters could benefit from; it's limited in GB to applying to beings with less hit dice than you have levels (max level is 10), and you could probably figure out a similar limitation that lets fighters clear hordes without trivializing important single foes.

I think my favourite mook-deleting mechanics are in ORE Reign, ranging from straight damage to doing something like Mortal Kombat finishers on some of them to scatter them with terror, etc.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:14

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

I might be the last to learn, but apparently someone, somewhere basically remade D&D 4e as "Orcus": https://sanglorian.github.io/orcus/

I haven't read it too closely, but one thing I do like is that instead of having a "Wizard" power list they'll have a series of power lists like "shooting lots of arrows", "controlling your enemies' minds", "shouting hands back on", etc. and then each class will give access to two or three to pick from. Powers have default ability scores assigned (they still have ability scores for some reason) but your main class expressly lets you sub in its chief ability score for any other with any powers it grants you.

Anyone ever tried this or know if it's good?

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:25

Admiralty Flag: Jun 7, 2007; to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

PerniciousKnid posted:

It might be cool if fighters could pay a price to guarantee hits. Or maybe just spend hit points directly to increase their dice results

Scything attack: At the beginning of your turn, choose to reduce your damage by up to [Level] or 5, whichever is less. This number serves as a bonus to all your attack rolls. Scything attack affects all your attack and damage rolls until the start of your next turn, and scything attacks never critically hit. You may not use more than one of your in-turn attacks against the same target when using scything attack. (This is to avoid the mathematically superior option of dropping your damage by five to make hitting a boss easier with three attacks.)

Sort of strikes a balance between "waste one guy per attack" and "attack [Level] targets with one action." It'd have to be a class feature because no one would ever spend a feat on it when there're wizards around to do this sort of work for free.

SkyeAuroline posted:

you could probably figure out a similar limitation that lets fighters clear hordes without trivializing important single foes.

I miss minions from 4E. I haven't played 5E much; have they included anything like them? I'd guess they don't need to, because to hit/damage/AC seems to go up more slowly so lower-level threats still maintain some offensive menace, but in terms of defense can a mid-level party send a group of orc grunts flying? Even as the DM, it was fun to watch the barbarian run into a small mob and flatten them all with Howling Strike, or to see the Psion pop several inconveniently positioned archers/casters with one attack.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:28

hyphz: Aug 5, 2003; Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.; Unlockable Ben

Admiralty Flag posted:

Scything attack: At the beginning of your turn, choose to reduce your damage by up to [Level] or 5, whichever is less. This number serves as a bonus to all your attack rolls.

I think there was a feat like this in 3.5e at some point?

At the same time, though, if you're going to let fighters mow down mooks, that's fine - but then you can't give the wizard Fireball or they'll be able to do the same thing with better action economy. And since most climactic combat encounters are not with mooks, you tend to end up with a fighter that has to step aside for the epic fights - the same problem as the Killer archetype from Feng Shui.

It turns out that it can be quite effective to go the other way - allow the fighter to trade surplus margin of success on their to-hit roll for damage, then give them a bunch of extra to-hit. That lets them mow down mooks who are easier to hit by trading for damage, and to contribute to climactic fights against armored foes. It's close to what PF2e does by effectively increasing the chance of a critical hit.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:37

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Ferrinus posted:

I might be the last to learn, but apparently someone, somewhere basically remade D&D 4e as "Orcus": https://sanglorian.github.io/orcus/

I haven't read it too closely, but one thing I do like is that instead of having a "Wizard" power list they'll have a series of power lists like "shooting lots of arrows", "controlling your enemies' minds", "shouting hands back on", etc. and then each class will give access to two or three to pick from. Powers have default ability scores assigned (they still have ability scores for some reason) but your main class expressly lets you sub in its chief ability score for any other with any powers it grants you.

Anyone ever tried this or know if it's good?

I haven't played it, but I remember seeing it on one of those lists of 4E retroclones or "inspired by" games ages ago and had forgotten the name; if nothing else, I appreciate being reminded of one more option.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:43

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

Admiralty Flag posted:

But then I thought, what about weapon tags that only fighters could access, and only at level X (to prevent dipping)? Each weapon would have a tag like brutal, rending (extra static damage for hooked/backbladed weapons), exploding (probably have to make this d10s or d12s only or it would outweigh all other options), improved crits (range and/or multiplier), defensive, threatening reach, up-close (can use while grappling), armor-piercing (ignore 2 points of non-DEX/non-shield AC if target has at least 4 points of pure armor AC, and yes I know that's worded clumsily), etc.

Shadow of the Weird Wizard kinda does that with weapon traits only becoming active if characters have certain stat thresholds, and then you have combat tokens available to martial classes that you can spend to improve your attacks.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:50

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

Stat gating inside classes or available to all?

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:51

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

goatface posted:

Stat gating inside classes or available to all?

Available to all, so if you do a Muscle Wizard you can take advantage of the traits for weapons that have a STR requirement. A full martial character will have more combat tokens to spend than a Muscle Wizard though.

# ? Mar 21, 2023 19:53

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

I am begging the people suggesting that fighter/caster disparity would be solved by giving fighters small, incredibly finnicky maths bonuses to please play a game other than D&D.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Mar 21, 2023

# ? Mar 21, 2023 20:00

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

ZearothK posted:

Shadow of the Weird Wizard kinda does that with weapon traits only becoming active if characters have certain stat thresholds, and then you have combat tokens available to martial classes that you can spend to improve your attacks.

Is that actually out?

# ? Mar 21, 2023 20:00