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freebooter posted:The difference is that only one of these countries' governments will permit you to publish a book, a newspaper article or even a Twitter post about its historical and ongoing atrocities. Ok, lets take a totally cynical route with no judgement about which is better out of the US and China, (I personally agree that it's probably the US, but also lmao that every criticism you levelled at China can equally be levelled at the USA, not to mention the military adventurism of the US in the middle east). Shouldn't we hedge our bets by placating both? Then no matter who wins or comes out on top, we've got a big friend? Because fundamentally Australia's support is not going to be critical to any theoretical war effort (which I don't believe is a realistic probability).
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Mar 21, 2023 03:25
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hooman posted:This is my point. Our defensive strategy relies not on military procurement but on creating strong bonds with nations that could crush us, so that they have an incentive to protect us if someone else decides to get grabby. With that in mind why are we only yoking ourselves to the US and why are we funnelling huge amounts of money to them while antagonising China?
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Mar 21, 2023 03:26
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Budzilla posted:Read the Wikileaks file I linked a few days ago, it explains Australia's problems of security ties vs economic ties. While it does not explain everything and if you can't be bothered to read it I will summarise. China sells a lot of stuff to the world including the US but Australia is one of the few countries with a trade surplus with China. However world shipping is secured by the US and its massive navy so we need them to keep the shipping lanes open or if they decide to close shipping lanes to China then Australia and China will both be hosed. China is causing problems in the SCS and its fishing fleet doing illegal fishing in territorial waters of other countries, this is pissing off everyone and is causing them to turn to the US security umbrella. If the US decides or is persuaded by other countries to do "something" and we are all in with China for security we won't have a say to ask the US to keep our interests in mind. Thanks, I missed that in the thread and will hunt it down and give it a read. This is an actually persuasive argument about our security position, dealing with economic and political realities rather than Booo China bad, USA GOOD FREEDOM DEMOCRACY! EDIT: Also to be clear I'm not at all advocating all in for China, but for being slightly less all in for US to our own detriment.
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Mar 21, 2023 03:31
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hooman posted:Ok, lets take a totally cynical route with no judgement about which is better out of the US and China, (I personally agree that it's probably the US, but also lmao that every criticism you levelled at China can equally be levelled at the USA, not to mention the military adventurism of the US in the middle east). Having a big "friend" which is also a totalitarian dictatorship would not bode well for Australia's long-term future. But you obviously aren't going to agree with that line of thinking if you also believe America is only marginally better than China.
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Mar 21, 2023 07:15
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I think it’s also useful to not just think about this just in terms of US/China but also the ASEAN countries, India, Japan, Korea etc. Australia isn’t the only country having to balance engagement between the two powers and I think it’s really instructive to see how China may have strategic partners of convenience (eg Russia) but no real other allies or friends globally. For better or for worse more major countries would rather court the US and act in alignment with the US and EU on security issues then with China. For all it’s problems the US still has a leadership role on human rights and solving global problems in a way that China doesn’t. We need major action on climate for example which the EU/US need to lead partially because their aid budgets will be critical for transitioning the developing world away from carbon. China is also about to have a massive demographic challenge over the next few decades with a rapidly ageing workforce and far less ability to use highly skilled immigration to shore up its talent deficits. It’s on a clock in a way most Western countries aren’t. Some people are paranoid this means China may think it has a window that is closing to take Taiwan, especially as Taiwan has been lagging in modernising/keeping pace with China’s capability growth, which could prompt action soon. A lot of people disagree. I don’t know. But I do wish there was more focus in the media on our regional ties, and if we did it would more likely put us in the US camp (vs China, as most countries in Asia have much more severe concerns about their regional ambitions).
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Mar 21, 2023 08:26
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Diet Crack posted:I'd say the Perth contingent is mainly down to bogans, boredom and meth. This is a very stupid, uninformed question. So I do apologize. But I remember the time before the most recent tour, when the South African cricket team toured Oz, at the WACA the black players were recially abused, and even the white players had "Kaffir lover" yelled at them. Cricket Australia blamed it on the large South African expat community in Perth/WA. Could that have any influence on a more organized/formalized racist presence like the Nazis? To continue my ignorance and stupid questions/comments. On the Victorian/Melbourne Nazis. Whilst the theories posted above, (a more left wing government provokes a more extreme right wing pushback, and the harsh lockdowns we had provoke a harsher anti-DictatorDan response. Both of which lead into Nazis/TERFs), both make a lot of sense. But Dan Andrews is a popular leader that has won in consecutive landslides. Sure, a lot of that can be put down to the Vic. Liberals being both dogshit and incompetent. But not all of it. So the Nazi and Nazi adjacent arseholes must know they are vastly outnumbered. (But does this also feed into the extreme right-wing response? i.e. When you feel you are surrounded by communists and race-traitors the only response is to burrow deeper into your hate and bigotry?)
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Mar 21, 2023 09:56
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hooman posted:Thanks, I missed that in the thread and will hunt it down and give it a read. This is an actually persuasive argument about our security position, dealing with economic and political realities rather than Booo China bad, USA GOOD FREEDOM DEMOCRACY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVqGEtPj0M0 This video is about the defense of small nations and he covers all the different aspects of how a small country has to solve its security dilemmas, it is applicable to Australia though. The video is him just talking over powerpoint slides for a hour but don't let that deter you. He is really good at it and by the end you will understand why.
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Mar 21, 2023 11:09
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BrigadierSensible posted:But I remember the time before the most recent tour, when the South African cricket team toured Oz, at the WACA the black players were recially abused, and even the white players had "Kaffir lover" yelled at them. Cricket Australia blamed it on the large South African expat community in Perth/WA. Could that have any influence on a more organized/formalized racist presence like the Nazis? I doubt it, Perth is full of flogs and if they come up from Mandurah and Safety Bay and all these other shining beacons of culture and understanding then they'd definitely be the contingent and outnumber the Saffies by a sheer margin. So to answer your question: they were probably Australian.
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Mar 21, 2023 11:13
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Premier Dominic Perrottet has denied he called Health Minister Brad Hazzard to receive a faster ambulance response for his sick wife Helen.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:12
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If my wife was sick and I could call some bloke to potentially hurry it up I would. Who cares.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:44
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Blamestorm posted:I think it’s also useful to not just think about this just in terms of US/China but also the ASEAN countries, India, Japan, Korea etc. Australia isn’t the only country having to balance engagement between the two powers and I think it’s really instructive to see how China may have strategic partners of convenience (eg Russia) but no real other allies or friends globally. For better or for worse more major countries would rather court the US and act in alignment with the US and EU on security issues then with China. For all it’s problems the US still has a leadership role on human rights and solving global problems in a way that China doesn’t. We need major action on climate for example which the EU/US need to lead partially because their aid budgets will be critical for transitioning the developing world away from carbon. China is absolutely going to get a lot more global influence in coming century, but there do seem to be a lot of parallels to all the 1980s media which predicted a future where Japan would dominate the world, not taking into account the demographic issues with that. (Although China obviously has a population a magnitude larger than Japan at its peak, so it's not a great comparison).
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Mar 21, 2023 23:48
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JBP posted:If my wife was sick and I could call some bloke to potentially hurry it up I would. Who cares. people who've had loved ones die due to ambulance response times and/or ramping will care. see also: "boris johnson had a party during lockdown"
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Mar 21, 2023 23:51
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G-Spot Run posted:people who've had loved ones die due to ambulance response times and/or ramping will care. My loved one might die due to that, so I'm making the call that probably won't go anywhere.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:52
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i know you're old enough to have heard the phrase (or equivalent) 'one rule for the ruling and one rule for the ruled' so being a disingenuous troll about it doesn't really change my response.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:57
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Senor Tron posted:China is absolutely going to get a lot more global influence in coming century, but there do seem to be a lot of parallels to all the 1980s media which predicted a future where Japan would dominate the world, not taking into account the demographic issues with that. (Although China obviously has a population a magnitude larger than Japan at its peak, so it's not a great comparison). Yeah I’m super dubious about the China future supremacy thing because of the demographic issue (which is a huge deal in the public discourse IN China too), especially combined with the recent Covid crackdowns and generally tightening controls on speech etc - these are going to make it harder and harder to get/keep talent which is what you need if you are going to be the global leader in R&D/tech. What they do have is industrial and manufacturing capability, but there is more of that now across other Asian countries and with growth in India, Indonesia etc I think they won’t be as critical to the global economy in twenty years as they are now. Especially as a lot of countries are consciously trying to decouple exactly because of all the security concerns, and I think they can do that faster than China can spin up its domestic markets and creating a highly skilled workforce with a declining population. Edit: plus they, like everyone, will be spending a lot of time, money and talent on dealing with climate related problems and disasters over next twenty years.
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Mar 22, 2023 00:08
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G-Spot Run posted:i know you're old enough to have heard the phrase (or equivalent) 'one rule for the ruling and one rule for the ruled' so being a disingenuous troll about it doesn't really change my response. I'm saying can you blame him? Like if he said yes I did everything in my power to help my wife would you shame him for it lmao
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Mar 22, 2023 00:13
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JBP posted:I'm saying can you blame him? Like if he said yes I did everything in my power to help my wife would you shame him for it lmao Yep.
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Mar 22, 2023 00:17
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JBP posted:I'm saying can you blame him? Like if he said yes I did everything in my power to help my wife would you shame him for it lmao "yes I did everything in my power to help my wife, which is why as a result of my experience I will be attempting to insure everyone has access to Brad Hazzard phone number" "Or as a result of my experience I will be upping the funding and resources of emergency services in NSW" But he's not going to do that. His ability to make a call like that is subtle form of systemic corruption, and your FYGM form of trolling is making you seem like an actual oval office.
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Mar 22, 2023 01:33
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If my wife was in pain and asked me to help her I wouldn't say sorry that's inappropriate.
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Mar 22, 2023 01:47
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Australia has the stupidest loving scandals
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Mar 22, 2023 02:00
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If he was really concerned about the welfare of his wife he wouldn't make her pop kids out like a loving popcorn machine.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:11
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ITT: Chad Dom makes the call to save his wife whereas the Virgin Chris Minn complains in a corner.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:28
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freebooter posted:Having a big "friend" which is also a totalitarian dictatorship would not bode well for Australia's long-term future. But you obviously aren't going to agree with that line of thinking if you also believe America is only marginally better than China. I'm not trying to have a go at you here, but America has the largest prison population in the world by raw numbers and 6th now by % all of whom are legally allowed to be enslaved to capital. 698/100,000. China meanwhile sits at 91/100,000, very close to Australia at 92/100,000. American also has the nightmare of death by cop, 1000 people per year. ~3.5 per million residents. The only one in the top 10 that isn't a "developing" country. Australia 0.17. I can't find any stats for China so I'm not willing to take that one was a big L for the old USA but hoo boy. China is totalitarian, but the USA has full 2 party agreement on brutal border policies, and not holding police accountable, and allowing pharmaceutical companies to extort people for their very lives, with an electoral system that basically ensures it's only ever R or D holding the helm. When your only two parties don't differ on a whole huge swathe of policy where is the actual choice? It's the old joke that "The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them." (note Democrats are significantly better than republicans on the small areas of difference, eg. womens rights, though they fail to effectively defend them, and LGBT rights.) A heap of poo poo that Trump was loudly (and rightly) criticised for doing, Biden has simply kept in place. Like I get that the US has been propagandising us for years, and I personally feel revulsion towards making this point because of how democracy good communism bad brain poisoned I recognise that I am. Yeah China has absolutely committed atrocities, probably genocides, it's belligerent and expansionist and a threat to it's neighbours but my god, have you looked at anythign the USA has been doing for the last 40 years. How many countries have the CIA explicitly or implicitly couped? How much power does the USA have to offload its inflation problem to everyone else through rate rises? How about political prisoners in the US, except it's not for their views it's about threatening corporate domincance or the military industrial complex. Look at what's happened to Steven Donzinger for daring to hold Chevron accountable for dumping chemicals and poisoning land. gently caress man, look at the train derailments and poisoning their own citizens, the lead in the water. America is not and has never been a bastion of human rights. Have you ever actually travelled to or worked in China? How about the rest of South East Asia? Have you worked in or been to the USA? If you honestly asked me if I would felt safer working the USA or working in China, I'd rather go back to China. You are totally free to disagree, like if you've been to and worked in both as well and say, "nah I felt way safer in America" that's fine and I respect that, but please don't pretend that American Imperialism is somehow fundamentally different to Chinese Imperialism. Both are hosed and dogshit and both should end, but they won't, so here we are.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:30
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JBP posted:If my wife was in pain and asked me to help her I wouldn't say sorry that's inappropriate. It is though. Do you often confuse understandable with acceptable?
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Mar 22, 2023 02:49
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Calling 000 for an ambulance means that someone in NSW Ambulance Service is making a decision on how to prioritise patient care and available resources, hopefully impartially and equitably. So maybe there's an ambulance that's closer, but it's on the way to a call that involves a person who has had a cardiac arrest. Having the Premier call in a favour means that the "impartial and equitable" part gets overridden and that ambulance for the cardiac arrest patient, or motor vehicle accident or whatever, is now being redirected to Perrotet's house not based on need, but based on political pull. I understand a husband using everything in their power to help our their family, but it's corrupt behaviour. He's receiving a private benefit because of his public office.
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Mar 22, 2023 03:59
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https://twitter.com/cameronwilson/status/1638374519969832960?t=pSAtg6ux81BLTYj9ijPMEQ&s=19 Wheres that gif
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Mar 22, 2023 04:24
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Capt.Whorebags posted:I understand a husband using everything in their power to help our their family, but it's corrupt behaviour. He's receiving a private benefit because of his public office. No, but you see, I would also be corrupt af if given the chance, so that means its ok with Dom does it.
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Mar 22, 2023 04:35
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Non Compos Mentis posted:https://twitter.com/cameronwilson/status/1638374519969832960?t=pSAtg6ux81BLTYj9ijPMEQ&s=19 9 years on, just as relevant as ever. 
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Mar 22, 2023 05:10
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Premier Dominic Perrottet has denied he called Health Minister Brad Hazzard to receive a faster ambulance response for his sick wife Helen. Did not know the Health Minister was called Brad Hazzard. Lol.
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Mar 22, 2023 06:06
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Yea it’s the best name/job combo ever.
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Mar 22, 2023 06:12
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hooman posted:9 years on, just as relevant as ever. does anyone except his propaganda bosses genuinely like the guy
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Mar 22, 2023 06:27
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hooman posted:I'm not trying to have a go at you here, but America has the largest prison population in the world by raw numbers and 6th now by % all of whom are legally allowed to be enslaved to capital. 698/100,000. China meanwhile sits at 91/100,000, very close to Australia at 92/100,000. China wins because when their main baby formula manufacturer killed a bunch of babies the ceo was executed and when it happened in america they were like "overhead costs are too high boo hoo" and it went away
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Mar 22, 2023 07:02
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ABC on Dom Tldr: Dom claims after his wife came home from the gym, crying, couldn't move from bed, he called Brad Hazzard to ask if he should go to a physio, gp, or hospital. But Hazzard happened to be in the room with people with actual brains and medical training who suggested ambos. Lmao I would've had so much more respect for him if he'd tried to get an ambulance sooner. That I can understand, unlike phoning a friend with no medical training while my partner is paralysed.
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Mar 22, 2023 07:30
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:If he was really concerned about the welfare of his wife he wouldn't make her pop kids out like a loving popcorn machine. Probably a bit too on the edgy side but when I saw that she had several miscarriages I was like "lady you have NINE children I think you should expect a few false starts" Poison womb heaven crowded etc.
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Mar 22, 2023 07:53
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The Peccadillo posted:China wins because when their main baby formula manufacturer killed a bunch of babies the ceo was executed and when it happened in america they were like "overhead costs are too high boo hoo" and it went away Jesus Christ
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Mar 22, 2023 09:22
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Autisanal Cheese posted:does anyone except his propaganda bosses genuinely like the guy No, from what I've heard from people who've worked with him
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Mar 22, 2023 09:25
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The Peccadillo posted:China wins because when their main baby formula manufacturer killed a bunch of babies the ceo was executed and when it happened in america they were like "overhead costs are too high boo hoo" and it went away Holy loving poo poo. I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but I'd definately be behind China's general stance on that issue. Anyway, my initial point was not so much China is better than the US. But that the US loving sucks and we shouldn't be buddying up to them on these sorts of issues, especially since they keep trying to import their insane crap onto us.
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Mar 22, 2023 10:05
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JBP posted:I'm saying can you blame him? Like if he said yes I did everything in my power to help my wife would you shame him for it lmao Absolutely, because using your position of power for a leg up just because you melted and sucked your way to the top by most likely being a corrupt piece of poo poo doesn't then give you the world to put yourself at the top of the ambulance waiting list like a piece of poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2023 10:44
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hooman posted:Have you ever actually travelled to or worked in China? How about the rest of South East Asia? Have you worked in or been to the USA? Yes to all three except working. I've worked in South Korea and the UK but nowhere else (except Aus obviously). In terms of personal safety I feel safer e.g. walking down the street in China (and also pretty much anywhere else in East Asia) than in the US. In terms of feeling safe from the government, or picking a country to raise my children in while imagining what that country might look like by 2040 or 2050, America by a country mile. (And Australia above America by another country mile). I think it's telling that you rattle off the Howard Zinn view of America without a direct comparison to China. Do you think police in China are "accountable"? Do think China doesn't have a problem with lead in the water and poison in the air? Do you think the factory and sweatshop workers of China aren't also "enslaved to capital"? The difference - as I said earlier - is that we can have this very debate on a website forum hosted in the United States. We wouldn't be able to in China.
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Mar 22, 2023 11:18
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Lets put the specifics on hold for half a second and look at it in general terms. Powerful person uses his political friends/allies to get material help/advantage for family members at the expense of potentially more worthy people without said political connections. That is textbook corruption. Fair enough a "Hey, my wife is in great pain, can you help her?" may be understandable, but the fact that one phone call got her an ambulance quicker is the definition of corruption. Also his bullshit excuse, of "rather than call a physio, I asked my non doctor friend if I should call medical help, and he coincidentally said I should call the ambulance and even more coincidentally happened to be able to facilitate that." is hosed up. If he had phrased it as "My wife was in pain, so I did all I could by calling someone I knew had the power to help her. Any good husband would have done the same." then people would understand. As it is, he's weasel wording it so it's "yeah you can prove I called the health minister and the ambos came quicker, but it was all technically above board, so you can't touch me." I really hope he loses on Saturday. But NSW Labour are as incompetent as the Vic Libs, so it's not likely.
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Mar 22, 2023 11:23
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