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Slide Hammer posted:In EO III, is there a special trick to the Hoplite skill Overwatch? It's current HP, yes. It's not a particularly useful skill as Bodyguard covers the same use cases without much risk. The main use I found for it was blocking Chaos Tentacle from Abyssal God, as that's a guaranteed overkill move. Or Supernova from Elder Dragon which could be handy if you got unlucky with head binds and rammed into the 10% forced miss chance on that. (In EO3 and 4, inflictions have a guaranteed at least 10% chance to fail, no matter how high the infliction rate gets.) EO3 just doesn't have a lot of overkill moves which would kill a Hoplite using Bodyguard. Overwatch could be an alternative if you subclassed a more fragile class into Hoplite.
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Mar 12, 2023 00:54
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 08:38 |
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Play Asia has added English to the list of languages for the Asian physical release of the Origins Collection and dropped the price to $69.99 if you're the sort that likes physical copies.
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Mar 12, 2023 01:10
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Ornamented Death posted:Play Asia has added English to the list of languages for the Asian physical release of the Origins Collection and dropped the price to $69.99 if you're the sort that likes physical copies. nice
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Mar 12, 2023 01:23
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Araxxor posted:It's current HP, yes. It's not a particularly useful skill as Bodyguard covers the same use cases without much risk. The main use I found for it was blocking Chaos Tentacle from Abyssal God, as that's a guaranteed overkill move. Or Supernova from Elder Dragon which could be handy if you got unlucky with head binds and rammed into the 10% forced miss chance on that. (In EO3 and 4, inflictions have a guaranteed at least 10% chance to fail, no matter how high the infliction rate gets.) EO3 just doesn't have a lot of overkill moves which would kill a Hoplite using Bodyguard. Overwatch could be an alternative if you subclassed a more fragile class into Hoplite. Thanks. I plan to try it out in the future. With a quadruple Ninja team.  Ornamented Death posted:Play Asia has added English to the list of languages for the Asian physical release of the Origins Collection and dropped the price to $69.99 if you're the sort that likes physical copies. I've read that, while the Switch isn't region locked, the E-shop is. It might become a problem to get DLC with a Switch not from the Asia region, if Atlus releases any. (I've heard patches come through fine, though.)
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Mar 12, 2023 04:12
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Slide Hammer posted:I've read that, while the Switch isn't region locked, the E-shop is. It might become a problem to get DLC with a Switch not from the Asia region, if Atlus releases any. (I've heard patches come through fine, though.) It's pretty easy to access the eshop for other regions on Switch, I didn't have any trouble buying the dlc for my physical copy of Super Robot Wars.
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Mar 12, 2023 04:28
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Yeah I have a number of Asian region games and it's easy to get DLC. Just make an account for that region; every other account on the same console should have access to the DLC.
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Mar 12, 2023 05:51
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That makes picking up the physical Asia region version a no-brainer. Thanks for the correction.
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Mar 12, 2023 06:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVXnszkWlx0 They're doing EO2 class videos now. What's interesting about this one is that this is the first case of them visibly addressing some bugs from the original.  In the DS trilogy, turn order skills were bugged for whatever reason (In a bad way in 3). They were supposed to have a failure rate, except the game skips the RNG check entirely and just makes the skills always work from level 1. In EO2 HD, they appear to have embraced this, as Slowstep and 1st Turn are now 1 point skills now. Not only that, 1st Turn is shown to be costing 3 TP, so it's the same as the level 1 version of the skill instead of setting it at 10 or 8 TP or actually fixing the success rate check to be functional. This is also a sizeable buff in their case, as Slowstep being a 1 point skill means, you save 4 SP trying to get 1st Turn, so that's an actual balance change of sorts. Though in EO1, 1st Turn is still shown to be a 10 point skill, so I dunno what's going to happen there.  That being said, they could just saw off the success rate if they aren't going to nerf it, which wouldn't actually change the experience of using 1st Turn in EO1 at all. Another significant detail is that their Force Skill Air Walk actually works properly now. Well, in the localized version of EO2, it worked properly. You see in the original Japanese version of the game all evasion boosting skills were coded as accuracy reductions. Whether it be a buff or a passive. This meant that using Airwalk in that version of the game would halve your party's accuracy instead of halving your enemies' accuracy. So this definitely means that they're going to use the localized version as a base at the very least code wise, which is good because the Japanese version of EO2 had some pretty huge glitches that got stamped out in localization. As far as I know, EO1 and 3 didn't have significant differences gameplay wise between regions so this is only really significant for EO2. It was said on the live stream that they'll look to preserve the experience of the originals while stamping out glitches, so that's probably the best route to go for relatively faithful remasters.
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Mar 16, 2023 02:14
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 Now let's see 'em fix loyalty
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Mar 16, 2023 02:25
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I'm curious; why aren't they using some of the fixes they used for EO2 Untold? That was a great fix to Loyalty in particular.
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Mar 16, 2023 02:28
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Arzaac posted:
I'm not sure if they would. Loyalty isn't bugged, it's just designed very weirdly. quote:When Loyalty activates, it converts the damage amount into a typeless damage attack which is then applied to the Beast. This is why Loyalty ignores the Beast's stats as the damage redirection kicks in after the enemy's attack is run through the damage formula, and it doesn't do it again for the Beast. The source of this attack then gets changed from "came from an enemy" to "comes from nothing" which is part of why it breaks several interactions. Nearly every single defensive skill is coded to work on enemy attacks only, however Loyalty converts it to recoil damage instead, which many defensives do not work on. So there's no "attack" to protect against, it's mechanically recoil damage, and the math doesn’t get redone to account for that. It isn't out of the realm of possibility though. And if they do make Loyalty work off the Beast's defensive stats and their defensive skills, expect Beasts to go from pretty terrible to utterly game shattering. They would be incredibly hard to kill while passively protecting the party from everything all while being able to use Rampage without being held back by dying a lot. It would be an incredibly significant change to how the class works, so don't expect it to happen since they are looking to preserve the experience of the DS games as much as they can. SimplyUnknown1 posted:I'm curious; why aren't they using some of the fixes they used for EO2 Untold? That was a great fix to Loyalty in particular. The Untolds and the DS originals are completely different games. They're looking to preserve the experience of the DS originals mechanically, while sanding down some of the detrimental glitches. Also Beast is the only class with actual redirection mechanics (which are incredibly janky in EO2) so taking that away (the 2U version of the skill just gives a chance to halve incoming damage) would rob it of is core identity. Also they could just end up porting the 3DS era later, so it would probably be better to let them be distinct titles in that case instead of trying to dress up the DS originals as the Untolds.
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Mar 16, 2023 03:08
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Japanese news post from Atlus about the collection. No mention of the dreaded Picnic lock, and the post seems to imply that you can switch between the 3 difficulties freely while in town. (For whatever idiotic reason, in Nexus, changing the difficulty to Picnic forces your save file to be stuck on Picnic permanently for the rest of the playthrough.) The PC version has mouse controls for the map. You can also use keyboard or a controller for drawing it if you so wish. The HD collection runs at 60 FPS (in contrast to the 3DS era running at 30.) Skill glitches will be fixed, but namely the detrimental ones. The skills that literally did not work or had detrimental features will be fixed. Skills that had beneficial bugs will generally be left untouched and were implemented as a feature. All EO3 multiplayer related features are making it in. This also means that yes, trading is in. You can just send an arsenal of equipment from an endgame file to a fresh one to start off the party as gods if you so choose. The password feature from EO1 and 2 are in the games. In fact, you can even use a password from the DS version of 1 with the HD version of 2, or a password from the HD version of 1 with the DS version of 2. That being said this is optional, and the game can actually just read the save file from HD EO1 instead without having to deal with a long input screen. New Game Plus has been backported to EO1 and 2. Unlocked classes will transfer over to such playthroughs.
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Mar 16, 2023 12:43
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Araxxor posted:New Game Plus has been backported to EO1 and 2. Unlocked classes will transfer over to such playthroughs. Oh, wait, that kinda rules. A way to actually use Ronin and Hexer in EO1.
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Mar 16, 2023 16:07
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Araxxor posted:Japanese news post from Atlus about the collection. Sounds good. Thanks for the info!
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Mar 16, 2023 16:32
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Playing through EO IV's post-game. Feels good that I got this far. I just randomly decided to look up online what the entirety of Hall of Darkness B2F looks like tho. Why is that third warp tile section so big??!!! I decided to focus on the gourd section first when I was not even a fifth in. Holy poo poo, did I do myself a favor. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 12:22
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Mierenneuker posted:Playing through EO IV's post-game. Feels good that I got this far. I just randomly decided to look up online what the entirety of Hall of Darkness B2F looks like tho. You're supposed to map it out using the poison tile room, since they mirror each other (the tiles with poison become the safe tiles in the warp room). The smaller rooms to the north are basically a tutorial for what's the floor's entire gimmick. The point of it being huge is that they want it to be impractical to brute-force it. Clarste fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 12:29
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Oh, that is way more reasonable. I totally didn't interpret the earlier sections as a tutorial tho. So while there won't be a big eureka moment looking at the in-game map, I probably saved myself from a headache there.
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Mar 17, 2023 12:37
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I never had a eureka moment and had to look it up, lol.
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Mar 17, 2023 12:38
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I learned the gimmick and then walked on every tile anyway because I don't map something unless I step on it.
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Mar 17, 2023 14:02
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Man, I loved Hall of Darkness. Only postgame I've actually fully beaten.
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Mar 17, 2023 15:40
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the origins collection news got me with the dungeon crawler bug. so I picked up PQ2, anything in particular I should know before playing? I don't remember jack about PQ1 anymore.
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Mar 21, 2023 03:33
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lol what’s PQ2?
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Mar 21, 2023 03:40
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MarcusSA posted:lol what’s PQ2? Persona had 2 EQ clones
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Mar 21, 2023 04:10
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Ohtsam posted:Persona had 2 EQ clones Oh yeah that’s right I forgot about those. I never got into them.
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Mar 21, 2023 04:11
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PQ1 was bad, PQ2 was better but still not great. the main thing worth noting is that they nerfed naoto into the ground compared to pq1. also kanji's the best tank so hes gonna be in your party 90% of the time.
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Mar 21, 2023 04:20
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PQ2 also has one of the most brutal 1st Stratum boss fights of any EO game, if not the hardest. It's not fair difficulty, unfortunately, it's more just the boss is overtuned and your choices for party composition are extremely restricted at that point.
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Mar 21, 2023 04:34
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Your party build is also very limited at that point. Pretty much the most reliable strategy is to poison the boss to death while using defensive skills and attack debuffs to survive. The bosses past that point aren't really notable, but that's pretty much the main sticking point. Some other mechanical things. Armor only works on enemy basic attacks in both games. It has no effect on enemy skills, so buying armor to protect against the boss's attacks won't help that much. Weapons only get used for regular attacks and all out attacks. Skills completely ignore weapons. Being in the back row does not reduce damage, it just means the back row tends to be targeted less by enemies.
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Mar 21, 2023 06:15
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Pq1 was a decent game with a story that touched me and made me cry I'll defend it 
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Mar 21, 2023 08:44
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So since they said they'll be looking to fix detrimental glitches in skills in the HD remasters (while generally making some beneficial bugs into features), I decided to compile a list of known bugs and other skill oddities in the DS era, to see if they'll end up squashing these in the remaster. And in the cases where they don't, well you can use this list as a series of use cases to avoid in order to bypass ramming into such issues. For the sake of clarity, this writeup will use the DS version names as we have no idea what the localized skill names will be at this moment in time. Etrian Odyssey 1 Landsknecht: None! Survivalist: -Beneficial bug: 1st Turn is 100% successful at all levels when it was supposed to have a failure rate at levels 1 through 4. (May just be made into a feature if the EO2 HD preview videos were any indication.) -Not bugs: Cloak works fine, it's not a bug. -Not a bug but may be an issue: Escape's escape boost stops working after a few level ups. To explain in detail: EO1 actually has 2 different escape formulas. For the first one, when a party member attempts to escape, they'll have a 30% chance to succeed. If they fail, +2% is added onto this chance. This affects the entire party, not just the party member that failed to escape, and there's no cap on how high this can get. However, if a party member fails this roll, that doesn't automatically mean they failed the escape attempt. The game actually gives them a second chance to escape. Sort of. Now for the second part. The game then uses this formula to determine a secondary escape rate: (Party's Total LUC / Party's Total Level) / 3 The result is then rounded down. If the result is 0 or below, then the party member has a 0% chance to escape. (Automatic failure.) If the result is 1, then the party member has a 33% chance to escape. If the result is 2, then the party member has a 66% chance to escape. If the result is 3 or above, then the party member has a 100% chance to escape. (Automatic success.) So this secondary escape formula only works if your party's total LUC is 3x above their total level. If you somehow have 9 times more LUC than level, than escape attempts are guaranteed to succeed.  Which only happens at the very beginning of the game. Even assuming you have a party of 5 Survivalists, you only get the guaranteed escape rates at level 1. The moment you level up to 2, you actually plumet straight down to the 33% escape rate tier, skipping the 66% tier entrely! You would need LUC boosts to hit the 66% chance. And then once you hit level 6, the secondary escape attempt will always fail. Escape only affects the second formula, not the first. Resulting in the skill only being a defense boost after the first few floors or so. Protector: -Antivolt and Anticold do not nullify secondary effects of skills properly at levels 6-10, only at level 5. This technically applies to Antifire as well, but no fire skill has a secondary effect in EO1. That one is safe to max out. -Not bugs: Provoke works as intended. The intended design is just underpowered. The anti skills also don't block physical + elemental attacks entirely in this one, but that's intended due to how those attacks function. (They're basically 2 separate attacks mashed together. The antis only block the elemental portion.) Dark Hunter:  -Boost Up does literally nothing at level 10. The power caps at level 9.  -Fury's damage boost decreases to 20% at levels 6 through 10, where it's 30% at level 5. The description makes no note of the damage being decreased. -Not a bug: Cloak works fine. Medic: -Regen and the Troubadour's Healing stack weirdly and can be detrimental, decreasing the healing done overall. -NOT A BUG: Immunize works exactly as intended. It's just overtuned. That being said if you're looking to 100% this game, you definitely don't want this nerfed, as Primevil will be a huge pain in the rear end to defeat if not close to impossible. And the Protector's Defender will not cut it. Alchemist: -Toxins is completely non-functional despite claiming leveling up the skill boosts Poison damage. -Poison damage is capped at 255. (Fixed in EO2.) -Not a bug but may be an issue: The stronger single target damage skills and the AOE damage skills bizarrely have a secondary damage stat in the data that decreases upon leveling up, but it doesn't have much effect on the final damage anyways. (It drops from 10 to 6, not a big issue. Just kind of weird.) Troubadour: -Beneficial bug: Buffs that block debuffs prevent any other secondary effects attached to them. (Probably won't be fixed as this will make Wyrm/Great Dragon a much bigger pain in the rear end to defeat, if not nearly impossible.) Already fixed in EO2 and beyond, though you have alternative means of tackling such fights that don't really exist in EO1. -Healing and the Medic's Regen stack weirdly and can be detrimental, decreasing the healing done overall. -Songs incorrectly states it does nothing when it boosts the speed of Song skills. (Fixed in the collection.) Ronin: -Boost has no effect on stance skills for some reason. (Fixed in EOU.)  -Beneficial bug: Level 9 of Seigan is the best due to a typo, where leveling it up to 10 would reduce the damage bonus. Hexer: -Curses incorrectly states it does nothing when it boosts infliction rates (Fixed in the collection.) Etrian Odyssey 2 There's a couple of bugs exclusive to the Japanese version of the game that were fixed in localization. These fixes were then backported to a version 2 release of the Japanese game. I'll list them here anyways as a fun bit of trivia (Or for you Japanese players that want to know which ones got fixed.) As far as I know, no other DS era EO game has regional fixes, so this only matters for EO2. Speaking of, a big bug there that got fixed in the English version was that all evasion increases were accidentally coded as accuracy debuffs. Any such boosts would lower your party's accuracy by the listed amount, whoops. No need to worry about this in the localized version. Landsknecht: None! Survivalist:  -Beneficial bug: 1st Turn and Slowstep are a 100% success rate at levels 1 through 7. (The collection just made this a feature by turning them into 1 point skills that always cost 3 TP.) -Japanese version only: Airwalk decreased your party's accuracy instead of increasing their evasion. Protector:  -Riskwall at level 2 is worse than level 1 at the 100%-76% threshold. Dark Hunter: -Japanese version only: Antisick and Antibind affect your enemies. Medic:   -Not a bug but Unbind and Freedom get worse at levels 2 and 4 before improving. Alchemist: -Beneficial bug: Magic in general really. One part of the damage formula mistakenly uses the user's VIT instead of the target's. This is beneficial because it slightly increases the Alchemist's damage due to their low VIT, while also slightly reducing the damage enemies deal to you with magic due to their high VIT stats. Probably won't be kept because it's just so weird and counterintuitive though, and won't have that many effects on balance. Troubadour: -Songs incorrectly states it does nothing when it boosts Song speed. -Crusade's Defense buff is completely non-functional. Ronin: -The Ronin actually has a hidden Katana Mastery passive in order to boost the damage of regular attacks, Sayageki, and Issen. This damage boost is transferred from the highest leveled stance (Which are Overhead/Seigan/Iai). Or is supposed to be. Instead what actually happens is that game checks for Healer and War Lore to boost their attack damage, which the Ronin does not have access to, so those attacks never have access to the damage boost. -Japanese verison only: Clarity's evasion passive lowers the Ronin's accuracy instead. (Shiraha does not have the same bug as it nullifies the attack entirely instead of acting as evasion.) -Japanese verison only: Koteuchi's arm bind is completely non-functional. -Japanese verison only: Getsuei can arm bind at a 100% base rate. Hexer: -I don't know if this is a bug: Curses is completely nonfunctional, despite having data for a 11% boost to infliction rates. The description doesn't mention anything, so this is probably intentional. Gunner: -Beneficial bug: The self-damage multiplier from the Riskshots can cause damage to underflow to single digit damage from strong enough attacks. War Magus: None! Beast: -I don't know if this is a bug: Many, though not all of the Beasts defensive passives does not work with Loyalty. Only Tenacity works on Loyalty activations.  -Roar's scaling. Just. Roar's scaling. Etrian Odyssey 3 Limit skill: Regroup Tactic has quite a few issues. -The turn count decreases before the skill applies its effect at the end of the turn. Meaning that on the last turn the buff is in effect, the skill will not get to apply its effect to the party. (Affects all Regeneration buffs in EO3 and also 4. This was finally fixed in EOU.) -This skill completely overwrites the effects of Protect Order and vice versa, despite the two being counted as completely separate buffs. --This means that Protect Order will prevent Regroup Tactic from dispelling ailments. -If the person who casted Regroup Tactic swaps places with another party member, that party member’s TEC stat and passives are taken into account when the game calculates the amount that the party should be healed for. -If the caster uses Switch Stab to move to the other row, the skill will stop working entirely until it is recast. -If the caster is a Bunshin double and dies, the skill will stop working entirely until it is recast. Prince/ss:  -Knighthood does not work properly when used on the labeled party slots, causing the corresponding enemy to gain +1000 action speed and outspeed your party. (Fixed in EO4. This can be a beneficial bug in certain circumstances, but it's probably for the best if this is fixed.) -Prevent Order is dispelled upon all infliction attempts instead of just successful ones. (Fixed in EO4.) -Protect Order has quite a few issues: --If the person who casted Protect Order swaps places with another party member, that party member’s TEC stat and passives are taken into account when the game calculates the amount that the party should be healed for. --If the caster uses Switch Stab to move to the other row, the skill will stop working entirely until it is recast. --If the caster is a Bunshin double and dies, the skill will stop working entirely until it is recast. Gladiator: None! What is with Landsknechts and their analogue being so clean? Hoplite: -Switch Stab causes issues with regeneration buffs as mentioned before. Bucaneer: -Multihit attacks will lower the activation rate of Chasers for each hit, but only 1 chase will come out, causing Chasers to be much less effective when used with skills like Blade Rave. Ninja: -Beneficial bug: Tagen Battou applies its curse backlash damage before the doubles merge, allowing the damage of the attack to go through while keeping the rest of the doubles if the caster dies. Monk: -Beneficial bug: The user can use fist skills with weapons equipped if the first equipment slot is empty. Zodiac: -Prophecies wear off instantly if they are applied to an enemy that can form change. (Only applies to the Abyssal God.) Wildling: -Tigers cannot counter if they took a hit through the use of a Sacrifice skill. Arbalist: None! Farmer: None! Shogun: -Beneficial bug: Bloody Lance activates if the user buffs a dead party member, and will activate multiple times for multiple dead party members. -Beneficial bug: Rear Dignity can be used to force enemies to move last (similar bug to Knighthood). Yggdroid: -I don't know if this is a bug: Data Mining replaces the crit damage, causing the first 3 levels to decrease critical hit damage instead of increasing it. That should be it I believe. If there's any I've missed, please do let me know. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 10:32
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Thanks for the tips and warnings, all.
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Mar 21, 2023 16:07
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Great post, Araxxor! hee hee
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Mar 21, 2023 16:48
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Cleared the first PQ2 stratum. Boss was pretty bad, as advertised. I hope but am not particularly optimistic that the game will stop explaining every map thing before I get to interact with it.
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Mar 22, 2023 07:43
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Wow I didnt know EO's 1-3 were that hosed up Kind of a shame, they could be diamonds instead of diamonds in the rough
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Mar 22, 2023 07:46
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I literally just came here to ask about the comment made about fixing broken skills and it's all right here! I wonder if Poison would be worth it later in the game if Toxins and the poison cap get fixed in EO1. Reading the current EO2 LP made me want to replay it, but I don't want to burn out on it before I can play it fullscreen in HD.
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Mar 22, 2023 08:10
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Araxxor posted:Your party build is also very limited at that point. Pretty much the most reliable strategy is to poison the boss to death while using defensive skills and attack debuffs to survive. Poisoning poo poo to beat the first dungeon seems just like the OG EO1 experience
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Mar 22, 2023 13:31
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Shyfted One posted:I literally just came here to ask about the comment made about fixing broken skills and it's all right here! With the caps removed Poison would naturally reach around 500, which keeps it good until the 5th stratum. It's still useful for up to around the 3rd stratum before you might think about changing it. And when it comes to these collections, there's quite a few bugs here and there but not that many really mean much, EO1 has its own gameplay issues besides the various bugs, mainly from the rude labyrinth and high level enemies slamming you for 400 damage. Even EO2 has class balance issues way bigger than a few bugs here and there that were at least mostly fixed. Though I do hope Loyalty can be changed, least the Beast can be fine without it. When it comes to the collection, 3 is obviously the best choice to go with, but 2 is a pretty breezy game with the a more forgiving labyrinth and lots of tools to help take down, definitely give it a try if you're curious, I think it gets lumped in with 1 too much, it's really not that bad, tedious quests aside. 1 is a definite curiosity, I do love the game, but I'd only recommend it after playing all the others, it does not respect your time at all.
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Mar 22, 2023 14:34
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I've played/replayed them all, but 1 and 2 are the ones I haven't touched in probably a decade. I'm actually looking forward to replaying 1 and 2 because Untold took away the best broken parts and it'll be nice to have some QoL improvements but not the loving grimoire system or HP bloat. 1 deserves Climax for how much BS it throws at you. 3 I feel mixed about because I don't like how they handle subclasses because the amount of options feels both overwhelming and limited. It takes me so long to figure out my party and what skills to prioritize. I do really like having a Ninja/Farmer gathering party though.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:52
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my biggest "complaint" about 3 personally is that SCCs aren't really that interesting since you get full ranks in subclass skills, so once you get past the second stratum it's just the chassis and class skill that sets them apart from each other
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Mar 22, 2023 23:16
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Don't the stats matter too? Like, Ninja isn't going to have the damage output of Berserker or Arbalist due to low STR, unless it uses Tagen Battou with a lot of clones.
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Mar 23, 2023 04:23
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 08:38 |
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The stats have some effect on damage, but in EO3 (and 4), it's the equipped weapon that matters the most. Ninjas can't do much damage outside of Tagen Battou because knives have a bad attack stat.
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Mar 23, 2023 04:28
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