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I played a full campaign with France with 1.2, my first long game of V3. 1.2 is a substantial improvement, but still not a very good game. The political system is the best part of the game. As seen in this thread, it creates weird unexpected circumstances though it can usually be pushed in the right direction. In my game I passed Secret Police and then there was a furious rebel movement to restore Universal Suffrage. But when I tried to restore it a bunch of other factions tried to start a revolution to restore Secret Police. Both of these revolutions would have taken 75% of my states for obscure reasons, so I had to just let one of them launch a revolution and switch sides. I switched to the French Liberal Revolt, consisting of the communists and fascists, and quickly overran the rump state. I was hoping this would let me switch to a communist government and economy but this was in 1935 so a little too late for that. A lot of this makes no sense but it was pretty entertaining so I really can't complain. The economy seems to work as advertised, if a little blandly. As far as I can tell you win by making industrial goods cheap, though this can be hard in the late game because of limitations on iron, coal, and especially wood. I really like the automatic investment for a big country and I would never have made it through the campaign without going Laissez Faire and letting the capitalists build whatever they want. But it seems like setting my buildings to Publicly Traded had no downsides. Shouldn't there be firms competing with each other, business cycles, and the like? I know Vicky 2 had a totally inscrutable economy but this is a big swing in the other direction. But the really bad parts are warfare and diplomacy. You know the complaints I have here, but in particular the return to EU3-style badboy (infamy) is completely stupid. Around 1900 I switched to total war, invaded all my neighbors, and got my infamy to 1000. The only response was UK declaring to cut me down to size and I beat them with simultaneous naval invasions. Warfare and diplomacy are both so unsatisfying that I can't see playing this more until they get a full resdesign.
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Mar 20, 2023 19:50
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:But the really bad parts are warfare and diplomacy. You know the complaints I have here, but in particular the return to EU3-style badboy (infamy) is completely stupid. Around 1900 I switched to total war, invaded all my neighbors, and got my infamy to 1000. The only response was UK declaring to cut me down to size and I beat them with simultaneous naval invasions. Warfare and diplomacy are both so unsatisfying that I can't see playing this more until they get a full resdesign. As you noted the actual draw of playing a country like France is the internal developments, which remain compelling regardless of how big you are compared to the rest of the world. If you were playing someone who had a harder time reaching the top, like the Ottomans or Mexico or something, then you'd find that "cut down to size" wars against the UK, and the half dozen other countries who will jump on against you if they're not utterly terrified of you, can be actual challenges. You can probably still trivialize most wars with absolute naval supremacy, but that's kind of your reward for building up an economy that can support the world's largest navy.
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Mar 20, 2023 20:46
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I played a full campaign with France with 1.2, my first long game of V3. 1.2 is a substantial improvement, but still not a very good game. Give either Ottomans or Brazil a try, I find USA to be a bit steamrolly. Russia is also a fun time, but they start as #3 so you'll still roflstomp the game if you have any idea what you're doing. I've heard good things about Persia too, they're hard what with being a small country, but they don't start in a completely hopeless situation like some of the Russian vassals, the poor bastards.
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Mar 20, 2023 21:11
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I dug into the new tendency of the investment AI to go nuts with Arts Academies and it's clearly due to some wonky scaling with pop demand for Fine Art. Here are those demand values for a few select Wealth levels. Wealth 30 (this is where pops start consuming Fine Art): 21 Wealth 40: 113 Wealth 50: 1052 Wealth 60: 9145 You can see there is exponential increase, which I understand is intended, but it really shoots up once you hit Wealth 50. No other demand scales up by nearly as much, as far as I can see; this is exceptional. So what I think is going on is this: In 1.2, buildings are much more aggressive about driving down wages, which means much richer capitalists, which means you're more likely to have pops hitting that 50+ critical point where Fine Art demand goes bonkers. Prior to 1.2 it was tough for pops to go that high so you wouldn't have seen this much, but looking at my current game I have a surprising amount of them. Even just a few pops in that range are sucking up all the art I can possibly make, which keeps the price locked at +75%, which signals the investment AI to keep building. I assume these numbers are generated offline by some script the devs use that contains exponential formulas for the various buy packages. Sounds like this exponent needs to be tuned way down. This could be modded by hand, but it'll be a big pain since it's necessary to individually change the number for every Wealth level from 30 to 99.
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Mar 20, 2023 21:15
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Fray posted:I assume these numbers are generated offline by some script the devs use that contains exponential formulas for the various buy packages. Sounds like this exponent needs to be tuned way down. This could be modded by hand, but it'll be a big pain since it's necessary to individually change the number for every Wealth level from 30 to 99.
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Mar 20, 2023 21:29
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megane posted:What file is this? This sounds like something I could automate. game/common/buy_packages/00_buy_packages.txt Ed: The deeper problem, though, is arguably that pops are routinely reaching Wealth levels that high in the first place under the current balance. I'm reminded of the dev diary that originally explained SoL, where Wiz said they deem 60 to be the practical maximum, and if a pop is above that then it's because the player is doing hijinks to see how high they can get a specific pop. Well, looking at my save I have some glassworks owners at 66, and a several other pops above 60 as well. The goods prices for that glassworks don't look crazy or anything, but its paying fuckall for wages. It's paying only $2.2k wages on $22.7k of revenue, while the 400 capitalist owning it take $8k dividends. Fray fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Mar 20, 2023 |
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Mar 20, 2023 21:35
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After my last game where private industry became insatiable for art academies, I modded them to be sized more like regular buildings so they aren't ludicrously construction/infrastructure heavy. 5x the normal input, output, and employees, so they have the usual 5k employees per level. That gave them 750 upper strata employees per level which is ridiculously high compared to any other building, though, so I made it 250 upper strata and 500 laborers. Someone's gotta sweep the floors, after all!
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Mar 20, 2023 23:11
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 Saw the AI form a wild Mega-Germany without my help in my first 1.2 game. They still weren't that strong though. Prussia / Germany reminds me of France in original Vicky: Rev (I think it was V1 at least) where they would often have a hard time getting their industry off the ground and stall out early on.
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Mar 20, 2023 23:43
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did switzerland eat the nw italian communes? 
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Mar 21, 2023 01:38
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I think mega-Germanys will form pretty regularly as in all my 1.2 runs to date, Prussia launches a leadership war in the 30s and gets crushed alone against Austria and Russia. I feel like leadership wars (as opposed to unification wars) shouldn't allow external intervention as it's not really a "brothers war" if half of Europe joins in.
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Mar 21, 2023 01:43
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i think something is up with unification since in my last game italy formed in like 10 years and prussia unified big germany despite seemingly getting their rear end handed to them by austria in the war
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Mar 21, 2023 02:20
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Fuligin posted:did switzerland eat the nw italian communes? Nah, it was just one of the Italian minors that didn't join up. Ancona? I found it a little annoying late in my Japan run that their color is so close to GB's. Probably unrealistic to expect everyone's colors to stand out against each other. Maybe if they had different border colors too like in Stellaris? 
Randallteal fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 02:25
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BBJoey posted:I think mega-Germanys will form pretty regularly as in all my 1.2 runs to date, Prussia launches a leadership war in the 30s and gets crushed alone against Austria and Russia. I feel like leadership wars (as opposed to unification wars) shouldn't allow external intervention as it's not really a "brothers war" if half of Europe joins in. Italy was involved in the RL one so it seems weird to prevent a historical outcome from being possible.
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Mar 21, 2023 02:32
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Fray posted:game/common/buy_packages/00_buy_packages.txt Hm. I looked into it and I can easily edit in some different numbers. I agree that it wouldn't fix the underlying problem, though. Rich people's wealth isn't really determined by how much they spend on their day-to-day needs, I don't think. If I (or someone in the thread) come up with a good paradigm for what the numbers should look like, I'll make a mod out of it. I did extract the existing values and create this fun chart, though:  This is the percentage of their spending that goes to each need (there's basically no change past SoL 70, just imagine the last column repeated 30 times). Fun fact: heating costs rise from $15 at SoL 1 to $29 at SoL 9... but then everyone richer than that, from SoL 10 all the way up to 99, spends exactly $26 on heating.  A SoL 70 pop spends:
> no megane fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 03:17
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I finally hit the liberalism sprint in my Chile run and yep, now you definitely want automatic capital investment for this sumbitch. Just non-stop construction, switching away from production methods that save on labor so you can get more people employed, and so on. This is a really fun economic/political model, very fascinating to tweak and so forth.
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Mar 21, 2023 03:37
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Fray posted:game/common/buy_packages/00_buy_packages.txt Those seem like perfectly sane* late 20th/early 21st century profit distribution ratios to be honest. Congratulations on speed running late stage capitalism that fast. *They're not sane, they're not sane at all
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Mar 21, 2023 03:46
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Is there any way to get an IG out of a party? The Liberal Party is made up of the Intelligentsia, the Labor Unions and the Petit Bourgeoisie and together they have a whopping -38 Government Ideology penalty to Legitimacy all by themselves. This means they would need to win a huge majority of the votes just to get a government capable of passing laws. I think the PB are the ones dragging this down but they won't leave the party.
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Mar 21, 2023 03:59
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A couple of thoughts on the needs above:
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Mar 21, 2023 04:17
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Is there a way to request your vassals to not attack? I find I have allies/subject states throwing themselves onto a front I'd rather keep static. I.e. we may have a slight combat edge if the entire line was to go on offence, my troops are on defence. The 30 vassal troops don't seem to care about my plans and charge headlong over and over into a blender they can't hope to win alone. (Doubly sad with the war exhaustion mechanic scaling off battles won/lost or if the defending force gets aggressive maneuver and I lose territory to my buddies bloodlust.)
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Mar 21, 2023 04:49
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Coming to the end of my France run, game is getting better but still not there yet. It's not even 1900 yet and I'm almost done the tech tree, France has about 75% unemployment, and it's extremely hard to balance my economy at all. Historically in this entire time period labour was pretty cheap because people were plentiful and jobs plenty. Humans just make up jobs when there's spare people and available resources too. It seems weird that most countries that don't start as a blank slate like some random canadian province end up with about 75% unemployment spiral by the late 1800's. I never use ANY of the labour-saving production modes because I'm trying to mass employ as many people as possible, every single product in my nation is in the low negative prices, I import nothing and export a ton around the world. It's still just not enough demand to use up even half my population. It's the same as when the game was first released. My economy's profitability will peak in like 1870 at some obscene +200k income at the lowest taxes possible because my nation has around 80-90% employment. But from there on the population just explodes and there's nothing to use those people for. It's not a matter of building more jobs because no one wants any more stuff, all prices are at minumums. By the turn of the century I'm lucky to be pulling in 2k profit at high taxes because most of my provinces have nearly a million unemployed people. This just doesn't make sense from any economic or demographic perspective, mass unemployment like that only happens in severe depressions but my economy is booming. I'm not being outcompeted by foreign powers, I'm one of the world's largest exporters and I import nothing. The game's demands for stuff just doesn't increase enough with the population and the productivity of buildings and it breaks my heart every time I'm having a good run. The will to play just vanishes as it feels like the game has broken through no fault of my own, as if the economy simply wasn't tested beyond 1890 or so. If V3 had any sort of political message baked into the mechanics it's that malthus was right. Well actually not exactly, the frustrating thing is that malthus warned us too many people will consume too much and we'll become unsustainable. That's not the problem in V3. I have unlimited resources and unlimited labour, the problem is demand. In an economy with unlimited resources and labour there is absolutely no reason for there to be mass unemployment. Something is wrong with how the game generates demands. My hyper-productive pops should be generating enough demand to generate more jobs to employ the unemployed and create a cycle. Most of the early game functions within this cycle, and it's fun as hell. But something breaks down at some point and the demands of your very productive workers and economy lose this "criticality" and the reaction fizzles. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 05:02
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megane posted:A couple of thoughts on the needs above: Yeah, I feel like rich pops, and middle to an extent, should devour paper as they use it to keep in touch with long distance relationships, keep diaries and just be wasteful bastards in general. Then with the advent of the telephone or telegram, their services purchasing should absolutely skyrocket.
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Mar 21, 2023 05:19
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Gosh, you get to 99 infamy once and suddenly no one wants to willingly submit to being your protectorate anymore...
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Mar 21, 2023 05:20
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New top item on my wishlist: please don't make it so revolter states in countries you are at war with will just automatically take the territory you're already occupying. It makes absolutely no sense from a gameplay or realism standpoint, and there's literally nothing you can do about it when it happens. It's insanely frustrating. Oops, some peasants got mad in the country you're at war with, so now all of your occupations are gone, your army is going home now, and the state you declared for is no longer available. Fun!
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 05:58
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Eiba posted:While there are definitely issues with warfare and diplomacy, I don't know that this is one. If you start as the #2 power in the world and build up for 64 years well, what do you expect besides a cakewalk when you decide to invade the world? Not really sure what you wanted the game to do at that point. Play on military easy mode and the military game is going to be easy. I mean a player going ham in late game isn't the main thing the game should be designed around but I expect if I am eating Europe country by country* it would make sense for other countries to try to stop me together instead of fighting individually while the others stand around, like a bad martial arts movie. If the developers simply copied coalitions from EU4 it would be considerably better than infamy as currently implemented. *I was able to integrate European Heritage states in 5 years and multiculturalism seems to turn off any kind of nationalism
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Mar 21, 2023 06:29
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Is there an option somewhere to toggle that all newly acquired buildings take over your standard settings? Is the „change PMs to most frequently used“ province action button the only way?
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Mar 21, 2023 08:03
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After playing some time with 1.2 I think that economy works much better. Most of my issues right now are with UI, but maybe UI keeps me from understanding what I don't like about other systems, especially politics. It feels like with the whole poitical system you have to keep a lot in your head and it's not centralized on the government screen. Don't know if a layered interconnected system like that can be presented better, but it takes effort to see how your economy affects population and population affects politics. Also, is there no proper region list? When I build some bulidings I can see if any region needs infrastructure, government administration or more vacancies, but don't see a place where it's all centralized. What I'm doing is switching the map to one of those modes and clicking region by region solving its problems by building stuff or switching production methods, but it feels very ineffective, especially when I unlock a new automation production method and want to find states that would benefit from it.
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Mar 21, 2023 10:44
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How can every random minor nation sway GB into their side?
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Mar 21, 2023 12:05
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Yay, got Chile to the end date as a socialist utopia except for free migration because only the industrialists support it and I missed the window to get it done. Thanks to all for the advice that got me through, the biggest being to go ham on Argentina and take all their poo poo when you can. Funnily enough, I should've kept doing that to everyone else if I wanted to go full socialist utopia; I ended up experiencing that good ole inflection point where all my good resources were fully harvested and I ran out of jobs for all the migrants coming in, so my top tier SOL was slowly decreasing and I began to bleed cash. Friendly Brazil also eventually dropped out of my customs union during the final game year, taking out a chunk of my GDP and, funnily enough, showing me all the places I could've employed my peasants. If there was a sign that I should've just kept taking land in South America, that was certainly it. But yeah, that was real fun and I can't wait to try Japan. Am also hoping for more UI improvements, like: 1. The upgrade building prompt telling me how many goods a new level will create/consume directly instead of me having to mouse over the embedded tooltip or whatever; 2. Coming from that last bit about Brazil, a reference page that tells me the production situation in my country, not my market, so I can make sure I'm covered in case dudes drop out of my customs union or whatever; 3. Make it so pinned markets on the outlier can be reordered so surpluses/deficits are shown first, or maybe even straight up just removing goods that aren't being manufactured at all or whatever so they don't clog up space. Game's real good, I'm glad I picked it up. Thanks all! EDIT: Also lol at how the farmers ended up being a key part of my socialist utopia because they decided to side with the trade unions. It helps that their bonuses are also pretty drat good, and that as it turns out their supported policies can mostly work with socialism pretty well. It was the intelligentsia that did the first backstab, until they got rebranded as anarchists and then into communists. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 12:27
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Baronjutter posted:Coming to the end of my France run, game is getting better but still not there yet. It's not even 1900 yet and I'm almost done the tech tree, France has about 75% unemployment, and it's extremely hard to balance my economy at all. 75% unemployed? With no labour saving? That doesn't sound right. This is what my British Republic looked like by the end of 1935:  About 31% unemployed, which isn't great- definitely high enough to significantly impact my SOL- but I also have basically every labour saving technique in use, plus the feminism laws and the trade union buff that increase workforce ratio. This is about as large an unemployment pool as it would be possible for me to make. It's not due to lack of demand, either- we actually have significant deficits in a whole bunch of goods, mostly raw resources:  The problem is this poo poo:   And I did significantly worse on this front in this run than I did in my pre-1.2 UK run. (I think the mistake was not integrating India- all that arable solves a lot of problems) I suspect you've got yourself into some sort of low income trap where wages are low because employment is low, which is lowering demand. The lack of labour efficiency techs might actually be hurting you here. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 13:43
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Finnish Flasher posted:How can every random minor nation sway GB into their side? Obligations
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Mar 21, 2023 13:44
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Finnish Flasher posted:How can every random minor nation sway GB into their side? GB hates you and wants something from you. They just need an excuse to be in a war.
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Mar 21, 2023 16:34
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Looks like a new version of the beta just hit. Fixes:quote:- CTD in Construction
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Mar 21, 2023 16:53
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That second fix is exciting. Was there a specific issue with one-person armies, or is this about the more general problem of armies holding out for too long while they're on their last legs? I find it annoying when a battle between two 80k armies ends up taking over a month because for the last half of the battle the losing army manages to hold out with less than a thousand men. Sure, some alamo moments may be interesting, but it happens almost every battle.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:01
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I had literally every one of those bugs happen to me yesterday, devs are on point with fixes
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Mar 21, 2023 17:02
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Dirk the Average posted:GB hates you and wants something from you. They just need an excuse to be in a war. I wish that were true, but any random AI at +50 relations will still sign up to kick your rear end for a song.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:03
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I noticed on 1.2 I have to almost subsidize everything or they'll fire all their workers randomly at some time even when making money hand over fist. Beta fixes that? So often my economy would grind to a halt because I'd have no tools or something, and check in and my tool factory with +75% prices simply because they refused to hire anyone. I'd have to subsidize for a day or two to jump start them back into hiring.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:04
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That second fix is exciting. Was there a specific issue with one-person armies, or is this about the more general problem of armies holding out for too long while they're on their last legs? I find it annoying when a battle between two 80k armies ends up taking over a month because for the last half of the battle the losing army manages to hold out with less than a thousand men. Sure, some alamo moments may be interesting, but it happens almost every battle. Should address the general issue of tiny forces holding out forever, though I can't promise for sure it'll fix every instance of that happening.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:10
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Baronjutter posted:I noticed on 1.2 I have to almost subsidize everything or they'll fire all their workers randomly at some time even when making money hand over fist. Beta fixes that? Buildings are probably sniping employees from each other because the state has run out of workforce.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:14
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Finnish Flasher posted:How can every random minor nation sway GB into their side? The AI being too eager to do that, especially when having positive relations (and sometimes diplomatic agreements) with you, is why I stopped playing. I'm reading the thread waiting for news along the lines of "the AI will be less malicious when it comes to joining diplomatic plays against you". I love the game and want to play it more but until I can like... as Persia, conquer that stupid Omani treaty port in southern Persia without three major powers jumping in against me, uh, I'll wait.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:20
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Like Dirk the Average said, its not that the little guys are necessarily doing something to sway GB, its that GB wants to be in on the war so they can beat you up. I do agree that the AI is probably a bit eager to get into plays without anything major to gain by it, but one of the things I do feel people miss is that even if Britain likes you, maybe they like they other guy more? It's not just your relations that factor in a play. It's like you guys forget that the country you're attacking is an actor too, which I guess is very 19th century of you but yeah.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:22
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