|
Chainclaw posted:I think it's how you explain it. I'm in the middle of looking at some options (I like my current place, I'm just trying to see what's available). A lot of places can't pay anywhere near my current pay, but I work in a peculiar industry so I'm like "I make this much right now. I know that might be out of your range, but I'd at least like to talk through options, and what sort of packages you can put together. There's a lot I like about your company and product, I'm very interested, but I also have to balance that against my household needs with wages." They finally got back to me! The offer was about 3/4 local living wage, non negotiable at a fortune 500 company, definitely not a non-profit. Needless to say, I declined and think I will decline from applying to any of their other positions.
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 17:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 19:15 |
|
|
 Is this as goofy as it sounds? "We may look at your resume in a month, maybe 5 years! Who knows! Hope you're willing to wait for our beck and call!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:54
|
|
|
I think it's wanting a pipeline of people they can reach out to at a later date. Think of it as a invitation to network or informational interview, which is kind of a nice in a way but maybe not what what you want to have to wade through if you're looking for a job right now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
Seventh Arrow posted:
For reference, a really big company was interested in me, but only for an onsite job, and the closest office is 4 hours away - so that was a no, but they were really interested in keeping me on a shortlist anyway. Finding good candidates for some roles is excruciating, and it's easier to call a former great applicant when you can offer remote work than start a new search. Edit: To be clear, the wording/approach in that listing is horrible. The only people who would likely apply are people who plan to leave their current job in a year or more when a contract expires - so it's not a terrible concept, but it should have been presented drastically differently. Red fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
That's a good way of putting it, I guess there's no other venue for doing that kind of thing either. Something I just thought of - when I'm filling out job forms and they ask for salary requirements, I usually try to find out their range from places like Glassdoor. If I can't find anything, what should I put? I'm tempted to just lowball it for starters but I'm even more tempted to put something like "let's discuss!" or "TBD". Is that career poison?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
they worded it very oddly but conceptually it makes sense
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:18
|
|
|
Seventh Arrow posted:That's a good way of putting it, I guess there's no other venue for doing that kind of thing either. 99999999999, 0, TBD, Market etc are all fine. Don't lowball yourself
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:21
|
|
|
Seventh Arrow posted:That's a good way of putting it, I guess there's no other venue for doing that kind of thing either. The crummy thing is that some websites require a numerical answer - and it won't even let you provide a range. My advice is to provide an average within your range you think is reasonable. Your salary range should be specific to you, because a lot of jobs simply don't advertise their offering range, and glassdoor can always be outdated. There's a lot to consider - if you're currently employed, you deserve a raise to leave. However, your industry may be struggling, and you might be unemployed in a field with few to no jobs, and you might have to take something for now to eat. As long as you're reasonable, I don't think a decent person will screen you out unless you asked for something willfully dumb like two to three times their target range. I think HR/recruiters know these websites are flawed, and will always do an interest check - even if, over the phone, you and they don't line up, they typically restate the salary range to see if you're interested, and talk about other things (benefits, career track, etc.) to balance it out. TLDR = If you currently make 50k, and want 60-70k, entering '$65,000' is reasonable, and you can explain the full range you prefer in an introductory call.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
Red posted:TLDR = If you currently make 50k, and want 60-70k, entering '$65,000' is reasonable, and you can explain the full range you prefer in an introductory call. no no no, check out the negotiation thread but this is not good advice. You want to take one of 2 tacks: Let them name a number first (This is probably the best advice for people who'd come here to ask. You do this if you think they have significantly higher information advantage than you) Anchor High (you do this if you think you can plant a credible flag well above where you think you'll end up agreeing to) Glassdoor is kind of a crappy place to get enough information to anchor high, but if you're looking for 60-70k and you think that's a good market target you should be anchoring at like 80k or higher, more likely don't say anything and they may come in higher than you expected. So it depends on what you think the market will be for yourself and if you think you know their range. If you don't know this, don't give a number first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
Red posted:The crummy thing is that some websites require a numerical answer - and it won't even let you provide a range.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:29
|
|
|
Lockback posted:no no no, check out the negotiation thread but this is not good advice. Son of a bitch, I had no idea there was a thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531 That's all good advice, though. My advice was just about how to fill in the required # on the screener, and I'd personally be wary of filling in 0 or a fake number. Is it better to think about it as a good employer won't screen you out for using a filler number? Red fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Mar 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 20:52
|
|
|
No, a filler or "Market rate" type answer is not at all uncommon, and a place that would strike you out for doing that has absolutely no intention of paying you market rates. Right now no one is shitcanning qualified candidates that quickly anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 21:09
|
|
|
Lockback posted:No, a filler or "Market rate" type answer is not at all uncommon, and a place that would strike you out for doing that has absolutely no intention of paying you market rates. The confusing thing is that I'm going to be interviewing candidates for junior-level positions at my company (while I'm looking elsewhere), and the candidates fed to me by HR have no indication of how they were chosen - I just get a resume and a job description. No script, no checklist to complete for the interview, nothing. I have an idea of what the range of pay is for the role, but I have no say in what that is, nor do I care - and I would also go out of my way to recommend a candidate for a different role if applicable, which is entirely possible. The last several hires were relatives of current employees, and that hasn't worked out super well, so now they're actually posting applications. I've also recommended former colleagues to apply, only to be rejected by HR because they didn't have some vague thing on their resume the role wouldn't require anyway. So, my lesson has been that just getting past HR is an accomplishment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:01
|
|
|
Red posted:The last several hires were relatives of current employees, and that hasn't worked out super well, so now they're actually posting applications. I've also recommended former colleagues to apply, only to be rejected by HR because they didn't have some vague thing on their resume the role wouldn't require anyway. When this happens it's almost always because the requirements were tailored to the resume of the person management has already decided to give the role to. It's just a fact of life that a good number of posted jobs aren't actually open, they already know who they're hiring but need to check all their boxes to maintain the pretense of fair hiring.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:59
|
|
|
I've been hiring people since 2008 (and part of the hiring process earlier than that). Working directly with HR and Recruiting is very important, and I usually tell them to let me take over as early in the pipeline as possible. I'd also never let them reject someone who fits (though you usually have to fit within pay bands, that's not HRs fault). If you have any real authority meet with HR and get this poo poo ironed out. If you don't have real authority but are responsible for hiring anyway, get the hell out of there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 23:33
|
|
|
s/o to the company who got back to me in under 24 hours saying that they’re looking for the “perfect candidate”, and thus was not chosen. Maybe idk have an actual job description of “coding but not too much coding because you’re actually a people person also strong CX skills also documentation BUT NOT TOO MUCH please translate technical terms into everyday language BUT ALSO SOME technical terms ok” 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 10:43
|
|
|
Chainclaw posted:It's not a "I really want her to work at the place" and more "We can work together, and I'm in a position I've never been before where I'm looking at potentially several offers, so I'm looking at ways to narrow things down." This is an r/relationships post waiting to happen. Have you even had a conversation with her about this cockamamie plan? Does she even want to work with you? I think you two need to have a real discussion about career plans and finances. Accepting a drop in household income so that you both can pursue careers you're passionate about is a totally acceptable choice if you're both OK with that. But if it's not, then one or both of you will have to make some compromises in that area.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 13:45
|
|
|
teen witch posted:s/o to the company who got back to me in under 24 hours saying that they’re looking for the “perfect candidate”, and thus was not chosen. They want someone cheap. I mean, that's their prerogative and at least they aren't wasting too much time,.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 14:04
|
|
|
Just posting this to LOL at recruiter incompetence- A third party recruiter just messaged me on LinkedIn about a job opportunity. I asked if it was a direct hire or a contract because I was only interested in the former. Their response? "This is a direct hire and is a contract under W2." Okay man, good luck snagging someone for your oxymoron job.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 22:10
|
|
|
Lockback posted:They want someone cheap. I put my requested salary 15% lower than average* for the position just go look for interns if you’re going to be a skinflint *still far more than I make now I do respect the immediate response
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 22:17
|
|
|
teen witch posted:I put my requested salary 15% lower than average* for the position just go look for interns if you’re going to be a skinflint
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 14:50
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I've been hiring people since 2008 (and part of the hiring process earlier than that). Working directly with HR and Recruiting is very important, and I usually tell them to let me take over as early in the pipeline as possible. I'd also never let them reject someone who fits (though you usually have to fit within pay bands, that's not HRs fault). I'm working on it. I just had interview #3 (of 4) for a new role with a great company, and it went extremely well - ran 40 minutes over, and ended with the lead interviewer noting she took her job as a leap of faith (she was unsure if it was the 'perfect' fit for her), and asked what about this role excited me or gave me hesitancy. I studied for this one, printed my resume, notes and questions, and the job posting, and asked some follow-up questions from the previous round as well as new questions. The final round is with HR, but I would guess that's more of a negotiation stage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 16:48
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:Don’t do that. If the average is $100k, ask for $105k. Asking for $85k will make the hiring manager think that you’re below average competency. And even if you get hired, that bias will persist. to be fair I have other biases working against me, but nonetheless, thank you. I figured I was being too cocky for asking for more. I wasn’t able to negotiate my salary with my current position, and I’ve never once been taught how to negotiate a salary, but I’ve also never been at that point. My workplace doesn’t even have a union agreement, you can just join but that means that yearly salary discussions kinda just don’t *happen*. Shame, because the union itself is fairly toothless. I guess this is the wisest place to ask: better if I connect my LinkedIn to job applications or have it totally disconnected? I kind of feel like seeing how I look could be working against me, and I’ve already dodged the CV photo situation by just not doing it, and that seems to be the norm now. I have a regular normal photo on LinkedIn but I still feel like it’s working against me…but not having an image also looks suspect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
teen witch posted:to be fair I have other biases working against me, but nonetheless, thank you. I figured I was being too cocky for asking for more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:In the US, nobody cares if you have a pic on LinkedIn or not. Not sure about other places. It doesn’t matter if you connect your LinkedIn or not; assume anyone interested in hiring you will look it up. Your application and resume contain enough info to easily find it. Not in the US, but I grew up and had early jobs there, but nothing more than retail. I’m thinking disconnect it and if they hunt me down, then so be it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 17:56
|
|
|
You should include a LinkedIn on a resume, but your LinkedIn doesn't need a photo. Some places won't care about a LI profile, but some will put heavy weight on it, it's better not to dock yourself by excluding it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 18:50
|
|
|
LinkedIn profile pic is no big deal for us older white guys but it's probably not so clear cut for other groups.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 18:52
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:LinkedIn profile pic is no big deal for us older white guys but it's probably not so clear cut for other groups. See that’s what I very much am not, and I feel like having it is an easy way to be disqualified. I’m fine being ruled out based on my merits, but I have wondered if I’d get more responses should I come off as more anonymous, visually.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 19:14
|
|
|
teen witch posted:See that’s what I very much am not, and I feel like having it is an easy way to be disqualified. I’m fine being ruled out based on my merits, but I have wondered if I’d get more responses should I come off as more anonymous, visually. I feel like your picture only really matters to recruiters who lean on using LinkedIn for leads, and even then, it probably only really matters if you're in sales or something where your appearance literally represents a company.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 19:43
|
|
|
teen witch posted:See that’s what I very much am not, and I feel like having it is an easy way to be disqualified. I’m fine being ruled out based on my merits, but I have wondered if I’d get more responses should I come off as more anonymous, visually. Can people guess your demographics based on your name? If so, adding the profile picture probably isn't going to hurt you much more, and might help for anyone who does care about seeing a picture. If not, I'd be a little more cautious. (I think there's an option to make your picture visible for your first degree connections only, but I've never looked into that.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 20:36
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:Can people guess your demographics based on your name? If so, adding the profile picture probably isn't going to hurt you much more, and might help for anyone who does care about seeing a picture. If not, I'd be a little more cautious. Oh my name is an ethnic conundrum, which is a smart point. I think my LinkedIn is left on first degree connections for pic, but let me check as that website is a hellhole. thanks so much everyone. I hate having to play this dumbass do-si-do, but it’s reality and I cannot ignore it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
Lockback posted:You should include a LinkedIn on a resume, but your LinkedIn doesn't need a photo. Some places won't care about a LI profile, but some will put heavy weight on it, it's better not to dock yourself by excluding it. I was literally about to ask this. I have no social media other than a pic less LI account. Thanks. Edit. Do I always need a cover letter for applications? I've applied to an employee referred exec position, but their online process only asked for a resume. Should I just add it to the pdf? Evil SpongeBob fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 04:15
|
|
|
You can, but I'd probably say if they don't ask don't include one. That may be somewhat industry specific. Don't include one in tech unless asked, but I've seen enough in finance to consider it for an exec position as they love their overly complex portfolios. Including one won't kill you but it'll probably be ignored and might be the kind of small annoyance you don't want someone to have to deal with when trying to make an impression.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 04:49
|
|
|
Thank you. Again I haven't applied seriously for a job since 1999, so everyone's input is appreciated.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 05:43
|
|
|
Got a cold message on LinkedIn from a guy at a major firm. Apparently he heard my name from a former colleague who suggested me for a role they have open. I have a call with him and the principal tomorrow, I'll have some works to show them from my portfolio, but other than that have no experience with this type of conversation. Any suggestions for how to approach it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
Red posted:I'm working on it. So I thought my interview went really well, and I'm still waiting for an update, but I noticed the job posting on LinkedIn was 'refreshed' or what have you 6 hours ago. That could be a sign they're looking elsewhere, or just that it auto-renewed. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
Red posted:So I thought my interview went really well, and I'm still waiting for an update, but I noticed the job posting on LinkedIn was 'refreshed' or what have you 6 hours ago. That could be a sign they're looking elsewhere, or just that it auto-renewed. I've been looking for work for a few months now, and I see that happen all the time for positions. I don't know if it means anything. I think maybe people are just trying to game the system to attract the "posted 40 minutes ago" crowd or something. But you will start to see a position you applied for with a posted time that is after the last time you made any applications.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:30
|
|
|
As a hiring manager I always keep my postings live until I have an actual acceptance of an offer. You just never know and can't afford to be caught flatfooted. As a candidate it is nothing to be worried about at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:30
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:As a hiring manager I always keep my postings live until I have an actual acceptance of an offer. You just never know and can't afford to be caught flatfooted. As a candidate it is nothing to be worried about at all. Yep, or I may be able to hire more than 1 person if I find 2 unicorns or something. The same advice applies to hiring, don't count on anything until the ink is dry.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 19:15 |
|
|
Thanks for the support - the call went well enough I feel hopeful. - They noticed I was a Phillies fan (they are, too) - I have a Phillies hat on a shelf behind my desk - The lead interviewer talked about how she took her job as a 'leap of faith', and asked if I had any hesitancy about the role or was excited - And the call was technically scheduled for 30 minutes, and we went 1:10 I'd like to think those are all good signs, but fingers crossed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:15
|
|