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Radical 90s Wizard
Aug 5, 2008

~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~
Do pass exclusive exotics like quicksilver get made available eventually?

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VanillaGorilla
Oct 2, 2003

Seriously, gently caress whoever is responsible for the state of lost sectors right now. I painstakingly worked my way up to the last boss of legend Thrilladrome- which is a giant health sponge that just sits and hovers in mid air, and I just had to sit there and die while it timed out because I didn’t bring a sniper, because it didn’t work within the parameters of the very set build I had to construct just to get that far. That’s before I even get to the part where the strand melee for Titan wings the camera around like a spastic rear end in a top hat, which makes the really “amazing” platforming in that last stretch just impossible in my last ditch efforts to kill the boss.

This poo poo is painfully unfun, the fact that they haven’t said poo poo about it says that they like it that way, and I guess that’s great. Whatever they’re designing isn’t a fun video game, that’s for sure, and they’re welcome to it.

And the best part is that I know if I had somehow pulled it off, I would have gotten some loving glimmer for my trouble.

VanillaGorilla fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Mar 22, 2023

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010
Lost Sectors are loving dumb right now. In general I really like where the game is at but nah, lost sectors are pretty loving bad.

I saw someone mention that they should be adding maps to Gambit and Crucible instead of updating Strikes and, while I 100% agree new maps is good, I wanna remind people that the vast, vast majority of players don't touch PvP. In previous seasons it was 10-15% of the player base on average.

I'm not saying to ignore those modes, but the reality is PvE is the bread and butter, and Strikes are a huge part of that. A random player is not doing Grandmaster Nightfalls. Number wise I don't think most players touch any content that isn't match made.

I would love more maps for those modes, and some life injected to Gambit (somehow) cause I love that mode (somehow). But relatively speaking, yeah, the base Vanguard Ops playlist is more important, and if I were a dev it's what I'd prefer to invest my money and effort into.

Radical 90s Wizard
Aug 5, 2008

~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~
Thrilladrome boss in particular just seems like it's specifically designed to be a pain in the rear end

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya
Two losses allowed on a Mercy passage seems like a major change to Trials.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


Flawless!*

(*mostly)

PERMACAV 50
Jul 24, 2007

because we are cat

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

Do pass exclusive exotics like quicksilver get made available eventually?

Quicksilver was a preorder exotic not a season pass one. pass exotics go to the kiosk in the tower between the vaults when the next expansion drops. No idea when exactly preorder ones start dropping after the campaign, maybe later this year if they aren’t already?

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

syntaxfunction posted:

I wanna remind people that the vast, vast majority of players don't touch PvP. In previous seasons it was 10-15% of the player base on average.

I'm not saying to ignore those modes, but the reality is PvE is the bread and butter, and Strikes are a huge part of that. A random player is not doing Grandmaster Nightfalls. Number wise I don't think most players touch any content that isn't match made.

I would love more maps for those modes, and some life injected to Gambit (somehow) cause I love that mode (somehow). But relatively speaking, yeah, the base Vanguard Ops playlist is more important, and if I were a dev it's what I'd prefer to invest my money and effort into.

Source? For any of this?

The live trackers typically show far more people in Control than in Strikes playlist. About 75% of Daily Sessions involve at least one PvP activity each daily session.

Does it feel like Vanguard Ops Playlist has been receiving money or effort?

This reminds me of the 'Only 5% of players Raid' statistic that people would throw out in the past. Is any of this based on anything?

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


GoGoGadgetChris posted:


Does it feel like Vanguard Ops Playlist has been receiving money or effort?


literally yes? it's been getting seasonal battlegrounds which are mini (or maxi) strikes, they revamped two old strikes this season and they're doing more

meanwhile pvp got no new maps in sk or bl, one in wq, and one next season for lf

it's not quite as fridged as gambit since they're actually updating playlists and meta, but the lack of even just a map per season is painful as hell is you're dumb enough to be a destiny pvp fan

(it's me, I'm that dumb)

PERMACAV 50
Jul 24, 2007

because we are cat
Didn’t PvP get a new map in Shadowkeep? I’m pretty sure it was literally mentioned in the trailer?

Also,

https://twitter.com/destinybulletn/status/1638641334742564864?s=46&t=DT925tMY54SwGEv9vbPHUw

dodgeblan
Jul 20, 2019
miss those days when PVP was 50% of destiny

Verdugo
Jan 5, 2009


Lipstick Apathy

haveblue posted:

https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-crucible-update

A whole lot of words about future changes to crucible and going deep into matchmaking theory and math. Clash is being removed from quickplay. Rotator is getting split into "sweat" and "chaos" playlists. The IB Rift mode will be tweaked so it's not so hostile to people who don't go hard in pvp. There will be a returning map in season 21 (Meltdown), a brand new map in season 22 set in the vex network, and a returning map in season 23 (Citadel). Crucible Labs will be trying out variants of Countdown. A new mode called Checkmate that includes extensive tweaks to core sandbox components (season 22)

Best part of this article:

"Outside of some real noisiness in the lower skill brackets (there are fewer lower-skill but heavy PvP players), the average lines up well with the target and what we want to see.

You might also notice a few strange dots: medium-to-low skill, but all the way up in the Ascendant or Adept ranks. We were super happy these players called themselves out to us, as we immediately knew there was either a serious bug, or something very fishy was going on. We’ve investigated their individual match history and issued permanent bans for win trading."

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


PERMACAV 50 posted:

Didn’t PvP get a new map in Shadowkeep? I’m pretty sure it was literally mentioned in the trailer?

I think you're right, fragment?

I'm just really salty because I wanted Europa, Braytech and Neomuna pvp maps :negative: Scarlet hive would have been another obvious one for SK, and how cool would seasonal maps have been for poo poo like splicer (... which we're getting now) and plunder

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Still no Europa or Neptune PvP map. Also Bungie bringing back countdown but not supremacy is a major fail.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Verdugo posted:

"We’ve investigated their individual match history and issued permanent bans for win trading."
That's incredible, I saw a streamer complaining on twitter he'd been banned 'for no reason' so I hope this was him.

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Source? For any of this?

The live trackers typically show far more people in Control than in Strikes playlist. About 75% of Daily Sessions involve at least one PvP activity each daily session.

Does it feel like Vanguard Ops Playlist has been receiving money or effort?

This reminds me of the 'Only 5% of players Raid' statistic that people would throw out in the past. Is any of this based on anything?

I get it from a leak discord, don't worry, they have a 50% rate of being correct.

If you check warmind.io (it's a three hour snapshot) there are indeed 25% of people in Iron Banner. And that's good, I like Iron Banner. It also is a special event so 25% is a reasonable amount. Crucible itself is 2% but ya know, that's pretty alright.

21% of people are doing story stuff, 20% are doing Nightfalls, 7% raids, 6% Vanguard Ops, etc etc.

75% of people doing one match doesn't mean that the mode occupies 75% of player time. In fact, I will concede that apparently Nightfalls are *way* more popular than I expected if I'm honest.

So right now, with Iron Banner (and Trials was actually around 35%, because of Immortal I'd guess) the population in PvP is around 25%.

So yeah, it's based on data from warmind.io (Charlemagne) which is generally pretty reputable. PvP definitely seems to be more popular, and that's good, but it is not nearly as filled as the whole rest of the game.

Edit: Hey look I even took a screenshot for your reassurance.



I think the real takeaway is that a lot of people just do open world patrols and story missions. Also keep in mind the numbers these last two weeks are gonna be biased due to Trials and Iron Banner and won't represent the typical player engagement levels :)

syntaxfunction fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Mar 22, 2023

dodgeblan
Jul 20, 2019
people want number go up with least brain action

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

I didn't read the essay but the image is loud and clear - PvP is King :hellyeah:

Thank you!!

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

I didn't read the essay but the image is loud and clear - PvP is King :hellyeah:

Thank you!!

lol you asked for a source and then ignored it because like 150 words is an essay. I didn't even say I thought PvP was bad (in fact I said the opposite). You're a special kind of guy.

Zokari
Jul 23, 2007

the expansions and seasons contain barely any pvp content but it's controversial to some people that pvp is not a major focus for most players lol

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014


are people just not playing these Defiant Battlegrounds? two times in a row I load into one with only one other person that it just afking... they're already hard even non-Legend so this is kinda bumming me out of it

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


GoGoGadgetChris posted:

I don't think it's even fair to compare the two. I get that they are an Exotic Engram icon on the map that gives a pinnacle each week, but apart from that you may as well be comparing Glimmer Extraction to Spire of the Watcher!

Whisper, Zero Hour and Vox Obscura are pretty comparable 'experiences' although they range hugely in quality, but Avalon and Seraph Shield are two of a kind with nothing else quite like them in the game at the moment.

It's funny that people use to describe Whisper and Zero Hour as 'basically like a Dungeon' because Avalon could literally be a Dungeon if it had its own loot table and gave rewards after each encounter.

Seraph doesn't follow the Dungeon Template quite as neatly but I guess it does sort of have three chapters, and ends with a big ol' boss with almost-Mechanics

Dead Messenger is, IMHO, leagues beyond Vexcalibur since it's a Better Version of a wave frame. Vexcalibur feels like a side-grade to the legendary glaive options in the game.

Mostly agreed, particularly on the point that Avalon borders on a dungeon minus the loot. Though, I'd say Seraph wasn't that far off from Presage. Also, Presage even had some replayability in the form of the story progressing week to week like Avalon did. (I realize it's not in the game at the moment but nor is Seraph)

I just feel like I never pull out Dead Messenger despite being a fan of wave frames because it doesn't really feel like it earns the exotic slot, and lack of autoloading makes me find it clunky to use for the way I use breach loaders in general. Vexcalibur feels like it might have some uses in wacky void survivability builds, but I'll admit I probably wont use it over legendaries very often either.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

syntaxfunction posted:

lol you asked for a source and then ignored it because like 150 words is an essay. I didn't even say I thought PvP was bad (in fact I said the opposite). You're a special kind of guy.

Nah dogg there was just too much Data Massaging. First it was '15% play no pvp' then there's a jpeg showing 49% playing pvp, and then there's all this muck about how The Number is inflated by iron banner today and trials yesterday etc. Sometimes you just gotta let the numbers tell the story!

I don't think either of us has said anything about PvP being Bad.

Zokari
Jul 23, 2007

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Nah dogg there was just too much Data Massaging. First it was '15% play no pvp' then there's a jpeg showing 49% playing pvp, and then there's all this muck about how The Number is inflated by iron banner today and trials yesterday etc. Sometimes you just gotta let the numbers tell the story!

I don't think either of us has said anything about PvP being Bad.

is this a bit?

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010
Okay, only 2% of people played Crucible. The actual PvP mode, not the special event.

So only 2% of people care about the standard PvP content in the game. That's the numbers.

Edit: I get PvP is super important to you, but geez. I like Gambit so imagine how I felt when I found out only 3% of people play that.

More than Crucible at least.

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

Do pass exclusive exotics like quicksilver get made available eventually?

Osteo Striga was made available for people who didn’t get the Deluxe Edition of The Witch Queen in Season of the Haunted, so my guess is Quicksilver Storm will be available for the general public with Season of the Deep.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

syntaxfunction posted:

Okay, only 2% of people played Crucible. The actual PvP mode, not the special event.

So only 2% of people care about the standard PvP content in the game. That's the numbers.

Edit: I get PvP is super important to you, but geez. I like Gambit so imagine how I felt when I found out only 3% of people play that.

More than Crucible at least.

My poster in Christ I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about you, and to hear what modes cause you to feel which feelings, but we appear to be having two, parallel conversations.

To me it does not seem reasonable to exclude Iron Banner when you're tallying up the PvP Population. It really feels like a PvP Mode, to me. Also I'm fairly certain it literally replaces Quickplay when it's around.

neutral milf hotel
Oct 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

frajaq posted:

are people just not playing these Defiant Battlegrounds? two times in a row I load into one with only one other person that it just afking... they're already hard even non-Legend so this is kinda bumming me out of it

It's double vanguard ranks this week so that might be a factor

Turkey Farts
Jan 4, 2013

FlapYoJacks posted:

Still no Europa or Neptune PvP map. Also Bungie bringing back countdown but not supremacy is a major fail.

I really liked supremacy. It gave everyone something to do while playing clash.

Verdugo
Jan 5, 2009


Lipstick Apathy

Pirate Jet posted:

Osteo Striga was made available for people who didn’t get the Deluxe Edition of The Witch Queen in Season of the Haunted, so my guess is Quicksilver Storm will be available for the general public with Season of the Deep.

It's already at the exotic kiosk for me but I had preordered lightfall. i can see it being released to the public.

another thing about the exotic kiosk. i never realized there were two. more. screens. for legacy gear. so all the extra ritual weapon skins that i missed since hunt can be bought.

between that and using season pass pass to pick up a mess of old gear (that wound up putting my other two chars at around 1800 light level) today has been a good destiny day. now to ruin it by trying to play hard content on my warlock.

Verdugo fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Mar 23, 2023

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

neutral milf hotel posted:

It's double vanguard ranks this week so that might be a factor

Even if other playlists are more popular, you shouldn't be alone or down a player in a matchmade activity unless there are like, single-digit numbers of players in the queue.

I'd guess it's a networking issue. On consoles I know there is a bug where sometimes you are straight up ghosted to the spirit world and you get put in your own Tower, strike, pvp match etc no matter how long you sit in orbit. A hard-reboot usually fixes it, but I don't know if PC has the same potential issues and fixes.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

Turkey Farts posted:

I really liked supremacy. It gave everyone something to do while playing clash.

Yeah my perfect world would have a single node for

Control - 40%
Supremacy - 15%
Zone Control - 15%
Rift - 15%
Clash - 15%

I don't mind the existence of Alternate Sandbox Modes like Momentum Control, Mayhem, and Scorched, but they definitely shouldn't be mixed into the same hopper as Normal Crucible

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

syntaxfunction posted:

Okay, only 2% of people played Crucible. The actual PvP mode, not the special event.

So only 2% of people care about the standard PvP content in the game. That's the numbers.

Edit: I get PvP is super important to you, but geez. I like Gambit so imagine how I felt when I found out only 3% of people play that.

More than Crucible at least.

27% of the population was playing PvP at that time. 48% of people who logged in during a two-day window played at least some PvP. There is probably some increased interest this week due to IB, although that may be more pronounced as we get into the Friday-Monday period where you aren't time-locked on the IB challenges.

IMO, most of the population plays PvP at least sometimes, but also most aren't PvP-focused; for me, I usually only engage with it when there's something beyond just doing it for its own sake to get out of it. So I spammed Mayhem matches to rank up my rep so I could get the ritual weapon, this week I'll be doing a bunch of Momentum Control to work on the MIDA catalyst and weekly challenge, and IB for pinnacles and title gilding, then ignore PvP until it's double-rep for Trials.

Gadzuko
Feb 14, 2005

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

My poster in Christ I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about you, and to hear what modes cause you to feel which feelings, but we appear to be having two, parallel conversations.

To me it does not seem reasonable to exclude Iron Banner when you're tallying up the PvP Population. It really feels like a PvP Mode, to me. Also I'm fairly certain it literally replaces Quickplay when it's around.

Ok so 27% of people are in pvp, on the first week of a new activity with new loot to earn, and 73% of the player base is not

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015

Gadzuko posted:

I imagine that new players must exist in a constant state of utter confusion at this point, I doubt Titan coming back would make much difference tbh. Imagine logging in to Destiny for the first time ever and the Lightfall cutscene plays lol

I’m barely hanging on and I only missed the last year

Radical 90s Wizard
Aug 5, 2008

~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~

Pirate Jet posted:

Osteo Striga was made available for people who didn’t get the Deluxe Edition of The Witch Queen in Season of the Haunted, so my guess is Quicksilver Storm will be available for the general public with Season of the Deep.

Oh rad, I only just realised I could get Osteo Striga and I've been having a blast melting adds with necro/striga/strand

Junkenstein
Oct 22, 2003

GoGoGadgetChris posted:


I'd guess it's a networking issue. On consoles I know there is a bug where sometimes you are straight up ghosted to the spirit world and you get put in your own Tower, strike, pvp match etc no matter how long you sit in orbit. A hard-reboot usually fixes it, but I don't know if PC has the same potential issues and fixes.

Yeah, this happened to me last week on PC. I thought I'd run the solo mode script and forgotten. Had to restart to fix it.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

I don't mind the existence of Alternate Sandbox Modes like Momentum Control, Mayhem, and Scorched, but they definitely shouldn't be mixed into the same hopper as Normal Crucible

Good news, those are the modes specifically called out as being moved to the brand new Fun Crucible playlist in today's post

VanillaGorilla
Oct 2, 2003

Finally got through the legend lost sector, and Abeyant Leaps with a decent roll dropped so I’m never doing that poo poo again.

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GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

Gadzuko posted:

Ok so 27% of people are in pvp, on the first week of a new activity with new loot to earn, and 73% of the player base is not

Wouldn't it be a little bit more accurate to say, 'PvP is currently the most popular and populated mode in the game' ? The way you phrased it makes it look like you're saying PvP Players Are The Minority

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