|
Dawgstar posted:While I wasn't a fan myself, I remember a video of some Brony watching a premiere episode surrounded by kids and their parents at a convention and after what felt like every line of dialogue would just yell "HOLY loving poo poo!" and just so on and so forth while everybody around him is deeply uncomfortable. Finally I think one of the actual voice actors asked him to stop. LOL holy poo poo. my favorite hosed up brony video is some poor fucker who very clearly has some spectrum or mental disibility getting upset because one of the episodes that delt with a bully didnt have the little smaller ponys curbing her or "putting a smile on that face, like dark knight rises"
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 19:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 12:25 |
|
|
pixaal posted:Goku friends *everyone* He becomes friends with a demon named Piccolo at the end of the original series. At the end of Z he becomes friends with Buu. The only enemy they actually killed was Frieza. I mean he comes back a few times with dragonballs but he never really gets redeemed he always backstabs Goku. Going back further in Dragonball I think Tao is similar in he comes back and still evil. And even loving Frieza has transitioned from irredeemably evil to "wild card sometimes ally who's still kind of evil but not like obsessed with killing Goku anymore" over the course of Dragon Ball Super thanks to Goku's real super power: friendship.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 19:25
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:And even loving Frieza has transitioned from irredeemably evil to "wild card sometimes ally who's still kind of evil but not like obsessed with killing Goku anymore" over the course of Dragon Ball Super thanks to Goku's real super power: friendship. Dragonball has never had higher emotional aspirations outside of "aliens kick the absolute poo poo out of each other" though
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 19:54
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:Dragonball has never had higher emotional aspirations outside of "aliens kick the absolute poo poo out of each other" though When you reach the peak there’s nowhere left to climb.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 20:23
|
|
|
The newest Dragon Ball movie is all about Piccolo and Gohan's relationship and it rules.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:The newest Dragon Ball movie is all about Piccolo and Gohan's relationship and it rules. do they drive more cars?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:do they drive more cars? Airplane but yes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 20:48
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:The newest Dragon Ball movie is all about Piccolo and Gohan's relationship and it rules. Does he finally learn to dodge?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 20:59
|
|
|
pixaal posted:Does he finally learn to dodge? No. And Neither does Pan, his daughter, if the current DBS managa is anything to go off of.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
I feel like it's less that Steven Universe's approach to conflict resolution is wrong and more that the genre of "kids' shows about friendship and empathy" has now reached a sufficient level of moral sophistication that there's now an obvious demand for a show like that to deal with the issue of "some people are just dicks and you're gonna have to deal with that; your feelings matter; murder is okay".
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 21:36
|
|
|
DBZ never actually reckons over redemption because the way it always goes is that the infinitely-increasing severity of threats always eventually distracts former villains from continuing to do anything wrong, as they mush join forces with Goku 'n' pals, even though their contributions will be ultimately meaningless. I guess from an actually mature, adult perspective, maybe becoming friends with everybody regardless of their personal qualities is a childish perspective, but the idea of doling out absolute justice to everyone you meet (or in lieu of that, refusing to associate with anyone who doesn't meet some kind of criteria) is at best an adolescent fantasy. Not one most people ever fully drop, sure, but one that will greatly diminish your ability to function in life. Very commonly you just have to work with people regardless of whether or not you like them, and often you don't even really want to like them or become friends with them, because you might want to keep your professional life separate from your social life. I don't like sitcoms where the cast all start out not liking eachother but forced to work together by circumstances seemingly inevitably ending with all of them becoming best friends and loving eachother just because of their mere proximity beating them down (especially in lieu of having any character arc or turn to explain the shift). Rand Brittain posted:I feel like it's less that Steven Universe's approach to conflict resolution is wrong and more that the genre of "kids' shows about friendship and empathy" has now reached a sufficient level of moral sophistication that there's now an obvious demand for a show like that to deal with the issue of "some people are just dicks and you're gonna have to deal with that; your feelings matter; murder is okay". By the end of the sentence you demonstrated why that's a pretty weird and marginal position for a show to take.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 21:47
|
|
|
The "murder is okay" part of that is a meme. I think it's a remarkable accomplishment for that show to have left viewers thinking about the antithesis to its thesis.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
it was a show with good messages for its target demographic, and people who were mad that it didn't cater to their specific political ideology are people who very much were not in the target demographic of the show if i was making a show for kids in 2023 i would still tell kids to love & forgive rather than be jaded cynical doomers who have to sever all connections because... kids don't know what praxis is, or what the heck their uncles and aunts are saying at the thanksgiving table (they're off watching TV with their cousins or at the kid's table) e: i find attempts to scrutinize childrens media as if they are adult media to be extremely tedious, personally. just watch stuff that's for your age. i know that there's not a lot of amazing animation for adults in america, but, that's what this thread is for, for finding and discussing it. not getting mad at a kid's show from the 2010s because it didn't tell kids to shoot their uncle or random police officers and wave the antifa flag The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
I thought the fusion dances were weird. Dragon Ball or Steven Universe? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:it was a show with good messages for its target demographic, and people who were mad that it didn't cater to their specific political ideology are people who very much were not in the target demographic of the show You know it doesn't have to be all one or the other right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 22:05
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:i find attempts to scrutinize childrens media as if they are adult media to be extremely tedious Yeah I feel like the people getting apoplectic over She-Ra and Steven Universe should probably "graduate" to adult media, known for thematically satisfying endings like Game of Thrones
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 22:07
|
|
|
I apologize for my role in prolonging this discussion and ensuring this, the "Animation for Adults" thread, is one of the 1001 places on the internet where "Steven Universe" can be relitigated. I'm new to this thread, I assume the intended topic of discussion is Andy Samberg's "Digman!"  Discuss.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 22:07
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:You know it doesn't have to be all one or the other right? i don't think we need to speculate on whether rugrats is pro-authoritarian because tommy doesn't run over stu with his own car for being a bad father e: i mean like the problem that is happening here is that rebecca and their team had a specific vision and message they were telling to kids and it had nothing to do with the rise of neo-nazis and the alt-right, but because that stuff happened in the real world, people decided that SU was somehow meant to be commenting on it, and telling kids that you should forgive nazis and that nazis can be cool. it is loving irritating. if it was a show for adults that was specifically commenting on the political times of the late 2010s, then sure, dissect it, explore it, take it down a peg, uhh probably not yell at the creator still, lily's a loving psychopath for that, but yeah. it's also another example of media by queer creators/artists being heavily scrutinized far far more than other media. i don't see this kind of discussion about even adult shows like, IDK, Inside Job, let alone heteronormative kids shows by cis creators The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 22:08
|
|
|
Sivart13 posted:I apologize for my role in prolonging this discussion and ensuring this, the "Animation for Adults" thread, is one of the 1001 places on the internet where "Steven Universe" can be relitigated. I saw that pop up on the smart TV’s interface and didn’t catch the name at the time so thanks for that. Is it any good and what platform is it on?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
Looks like Hazbin Hotel finally wrapped production  https://twitter.com/Petitprincesslp/status/1638912204811411461?s=20 Happy for these dorks Edit: look at those cupcakes!! https://twitter.com/doodles_destiny/status/1638910920566140935?s=20 Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Mar 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 23:15
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:i think that you can criticize a kids show based on whether it is successful in telling its story and themes in the context of its target audience. certainly there are shows that fail this! certainly there are reasons to criticize steven universe I think SU was trying to reach for higher themes than it was equipped to address. I don't give enough of a poo poo about it to have an internet meltdown over it but I can get where it turned some people off. Also I absolutely agree Lilly is out of her mind and I stopped following her two years ago because she actually made me very uncomfortable with her sheer aggression issues. Happy Landfill posted:Looks like Hazbin Hotel finally wrapped production Good for her! Hope this softens the work load a bit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 23:27
|
|
|
So was it ever said why they recast the voice actor for Angel Dust?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2023 23:31
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:And even loving Frieza has transitioned from irredeemably evil to "wild card sometimes ally who's still kind of evil but not like obsessed with killing Goku anymore" over the course of Dragon Ball Super thanks to Goku's real super power: friendship. Frieza is absolutely still unrepentantly and irredeemably evil, activity and openly so. Frieza was so evil that he willing chose to be tortured in Hell forever rather than be reincarnated because he was that against the idea of positive growth. Frieza is still out there leading an evil army, being an evil planet destroying landlord, and casually murdering people on screen in cold blood for evil reasons. It's just that now he kind of likes Goku and understands the value of exercise, and that's why Frieza rules. I hope he sticks around forever and murders even more people as long as he keeps doing it in hilarious ways.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 01:18
|
|
|
Freeza has realized the limits within which he can remain extremely evil without causing Goku to give a drat about it, and it's kind of hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 01:41
|
|
|
Waffle! posted:I thought the fusion dances were weird. yeah, like with gems its whole different game but like fusion in general is like "are you both you still but one, like marvel symbiote type deal Or is it your a new person"
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 01:45
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:Frieza is absolutely still unrepentantly and irredeemably evil, activity and openly so. Frieza was so evil that he willing chose to be tortured in Hell forever rather than be reincarnated because he was that against the idea of positive growth. Frieza is still out there leading an evil army, being an evil planet destroying landlord, and casually murdering people on screen in cold blood for evil reasons. one of my favorite moments is you think he is gonna kill some underlings but then he just gives them a ton of cash and wishes them well for doing a good job. also is he a landlord? i thought he was like realtor king or some poo poo. yeah i like the idea of freiza just learning to not do crimes in gokus region of space because goku is very NIMBY about it, so he just fucks up poorer planets or some poo poo. "freezer what did i tell you about killing people on earth, it lessens the property values" Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Mar 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 01:47
|
|
|
Happy Landfill posted:Looks like Hazbin Hotel finally wrapped production nice. can't wait to see it. Macaluso posted:So was it ever said why they recast the voice actor for Angel Dust? I believe because he wasnt in a guild or something. i think alastor and couple others remain.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 02:06
|
|
|
Sivart13 posted:I apologize for my role in prolonging this discussion and ensuring this, the "Animation for Adults" thread, is one of the 1001 places on the internet where "Steven Universe" can be relitigated. I liked the first episode. It's pretty rapid fire with jokes and I wouldn't mind them slowing down a little but I'm looking forward to more. There are a lot of comedy bang bang related folks on the show which is a big plus for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 02:12
|
|
|
Yeah I’m not sure I understand what this thread is for lol, a whole lot of discussion of not adult-oriented animated shows up in here (Steven Universe is cool but the solving everything with the power of love finally got to me in the penultimate episode of Future when it felt like they were trying to do a more nuanced version of analysing Steven’s trauma but then it gets fixed in the EXACT SAME WAY jfc). Looking forward to checking out Digman! One hell of a cast.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 02:21
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Freeza has realized the limits within which he can remain extremely evil without causing Goku to give a drat about it, and it's kind of hilarious. Exactly, and I also think it's one of the funniest things Dragonball has ever done and thus I approve. Dapper_Swindler posted:one of my favorite moments is you think he is gonna kill some underlings but then he just gives them a ton of cash and wishes them well for doing a good job. also is he a landlord? i thought he was like realtor king or some poo poo. He's partly a realtor and partly a landlord. Toriyama modeled him after the Japanese slumlords of the eighties who would just buy up everything they could. From what we've seen the business model of the Frieza Force is 1) Find a planet 2) forcibly take over the planet and then either A) wipe out the native population and sell off the now empty planet the highest bidder (realtor) or B) the native population works for Freeza now wether they like it or not (landlord). But yeah, as terrible as Freiza is he also has moments of being a weirdly good boss. In Dragon Ball FighterZ you can get a scene where the Ginyu force are asked why they work for Frieza and apparently it's because the pay is fantastic, there's a great company health plan, and the retirement package includes getting your own planet. So, yeah, part of being the most successful evil overlord in the galaxy is fair compensation your underlyings (when you aren't too busy murdering them at least)
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 02:42
|
|
|
Sivart13 posted:I apologize for my role in prolonging this discussion and ensuring this, the "Animation for Adults" thread, is one of the 1001 places on the internet where "Steven Universe" can be relitigated. I liked it! Andy Samberg does a good Nicolas Cage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 03:28
|
|
|
Yeah he did Cage for years on SNL and I guess he just decided what if I do this for a whole show?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 05:51
|
|
|
Watched S5 of Aggretsuko and forget the messaging there was like 2 or 3 seasons worth of plotlines and I don't think any of them actually resolved or get so glossed over it's hard to count it. Like Retsuko and Haida decide to get married in a scene transition and it's never commented on at all what the hell lol.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 06:06
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Watched S5 of Aggretsuko and forget the messaging there was like 2 or 3 seasons worth of plotlines and I don't think any of them actually resolved or get so glossed over it's hard to count it. Like Retsuko and Haida decide to get married in a scene transition and it's never commented on at all what the hell lol. Aggretsuko is written by someone who is vaguely aware that society exists, throws a few references to things they might have heard about on the news, and prettymuch calls it a day after shrugging their shoulders at the way things are. Remember when the super-genius young upstart's amazing plan was... to cook the books a bit? And that's it. That was the extent of the plan. It failed because it was the most obvious scheme with no intrigue whatsoever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 06:50
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Watched S5 of Aggretsuko and forget the messaging there was like 2 or 3 seasons worth of plotlines and I don't think any of them actually resolved or get so glossed over it's hard to count it. Like Retsuko and Haida decide to get married in a scene transition and it's never commented on at all what the hell lol. So did they make Haida not a weirdo, like he finally gets the girl he wants and then just acts like a weird dick.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 11:35
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:The demand that Steven Universe didactically instruct tweens to blow up pipelines and kill their conservative parents was maybe not fair, as cool as a show like that would be. The insinuation that SU was pro-fascist propaganda was completely deranged. It was a personal story Sugar was telling about their fantasies about conflict resolution and human connection. To be fair here, maybe the personal fantasy of Sugar’s would have worked better without a colonial space empire that genocides whole planets. I think maybe the theme of peaceful conflict resolution might have been easier to work without sabotaging yourself in that way. Just lower the stakes a smidge maybe! Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Mar 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 11:45
|
|
|
Neeksy posted:Aggretsuko is written by someone who is vaguely aware that society exists, throws a few references to things they might have heard about on the news, and prettymuch calls it a day after shrugging their shoulders at the way things are. It's so weird, the office work stuff is like what a 9-year-old thinks office work is like. Another hard day at the business factory
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 12:13
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:To be fair here, maybe the personal fantasy of Sugar’s would have worked better without a colonial space empire that genocides whole planets. I think maybe the theme of peaceful conflict resolution might have been easier to work without sabotaging yourself in that way. Just lower the stakes a smidge maybe! See what I mean by "not equipped' is I mean she's not a good enough writer to pull this crap off. You don't raise the stakes with genocide and straight up experimentation on the dead and dying and then say; Oh they were just really really SAD. Having a message of forgiveness is fine if they were like your average cartoon villains not space Hitlers for godsakes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:27
|
|
|
Pray tell, rather than hammering on a story you think is imperfect, what are some other works that you prefer?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 12:25 |
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:To be fair here, maybe the personal fantasy of Sugar’s would have worked better without a colonial space empire that genocides whole planets. I think maybe the theme of peaceful conflict resolution might have been easier to work without sabotaging yourself in that way. Just lower the stakes a smidge maybe! This is my take, really. I like optimism and kindness as themes, but most of those aren't working against the text- not subtext, but text- of a genocidal, colonizing, classist, ableist, enslaving, literal human zoo-owning, planet-killing monarchy. The barely subtext is that they're also anti-LGBTQ+. A violent response isn't the problem in a fantasy where these things exist. Hey, Arnold! had appropriate stakes for a show about themes of peaceful mediation and forgiveness.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:47
|
|
