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Nothingtoseehere posted:As much as I enjoy line goes up on the GDP graph, there does feel like something missing from the game in terms of reactivity compared to V2 but I'm not sure what it is. It's certainly not perfect and can see people disliking it. For me it’s in the diplomacy. Much as I hated the sphere of influence mechanic in V2 it created a sense that you were actively jockeying for influence with the other great powers across the globe - Britain would be expelling your embassies in Siam, you’d be spreading rumours about France in Persia etc. This creates a feeling that diplomacy was multilateral, that other countries had agency and agendas they were pursuing. Foreign relations in V3 are much more bilateral and its nigh impossible to get a sense of what other countries are doing beyond the blunt tool of war. This makes the game feel pretty lonely during a time period when the world was more interconnected than ever before in history.
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Mar 23, 2023 14:16
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BBJoey posted:For me it’s in the diplomacy. Much as I hated the sphere of influence mechanic in V2 it created a sense that you were actively jockeying for influence with the other great powers across the globe - Britain would be expelling your embassies in Siam, you’d be spreading rumours about France in Persia etc. This creates a feeling that diplomacy was multilateral, that other countries had agency and agendas they were pursuing. Foreign relations in V3 are much more bilateral and its nigh impossible to get a sense of what other countries are doing beyond the blunt tool of war. This makes the game feel pretty lonely during a time period when the world was more interconnected than ever before in history. I think the combination of interests and customs unions were supposed to replace the SoI mechanic but I agree that there needs to be a more robust way for states to stake out their own geopolitical territory without just starting plays everywhere The way that German Unification works in V2 vs V3 is probably one of the best examples of why this mechanic is necessary; yes, managing spheres in V2 was awful and there's a ton of different implementations which make it more user friendly, but the overall concept was sound. Maintaining spheres could cost influence based on the size and power of your sphereling. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 14:22
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Gort posted:That seems weird. Have you played recently? Apparently I last played a month ago. I tried to boot it up to see if it's any faster and it doesn't seem to be. It's about 1-2 seconds per week at year 0. That's why I said IMO. maybe other people don't mind the speed but I find it super slow considering you'll end up waiting like 50 weeks per thing and there isn't really much else do to but wait or do the really bad warfare to fill time. But that could be personal, some people like gameplay I can't stand and vice versa Re: diplomacy chat, obviously that needs work but also it's crazy that there isn't really any trade in the game. At least when I last played. You can make trade deals but there's no organic trade at all between you and your neighbours even if you share a land border and they have poo poo your citizens want and vice versa Unfounded doomsaying below: It's stuff like that which makes me worry the whole goods production system might just be an albatross for the whole game since I assume that's the reason there's no organic stuff like that, since it'd gently caress with the core game which is basically an incremental game. I worry that there isn't gonna be a good way to transition these basic mechanics to a historical economic strategy rpg from just this number go up game. Mind you I'm actually super down for a political cookie clicker so I hope pdox can thread the needle just atm I find the political stuff half baked to be very generous and the cookie clicking is too slow and unengaging .
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Mar 23, 2023 15:48
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Communist Thoughts posted:Re: diplomacy chat, obviously that needs work but also it's crazy that there isn't really any trade in the game. At least when I last played. You can make trade deals but there's no organic trade at all between you and your neighbours even if you share a land border and they have poo poo your citizens want and vice versa I can see why it works this way, can you imagine how annoying it would be if it was impossible to get a decent surplus of raw materials (to make your factories more productive) because you shared a border with France or whatever
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Mar 23, 2023 15:56
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RabidWeasel posted:I can see why it works this way, can you imagine how annoying it would be if it was impossible to get a decent surplus of raw materials (to make your factories more productive) because you shared a border with France or whatever Id like if that was the case tbh, with exposure to new markets naturally cutting both ways and you gotta pass laws or recruit administrators to try to curtail the bad effects or encourage it and boost your gdp with exports. Instead you basically aren't exposed to other markets at all and there's no global market
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Mar 23, 2023 16:09
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The AI is perfectly willing to setup trade routes if that would benefit them, though, and those can have major effects on your economy (e.g. my glass industry grew crazily because Germany was importing tons of it,.so going to war with them was a major pain economically). This is probably much reduced in 1.2 though now that you can't transfer an infinite number of good overland.
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Mar 23, 2023 16:21
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Communist Thoughts posted:Apparently I last played a month ago. I tried to boot it up to see if it's any faster and it doesn't seem to be. It's about 1-2 seconds per week at year 0. Oh, you mentioned your PC so I thought you meant the game was like, maxing out your CPU and dropping frames or something.
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Mar 23, 2023 16:57
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So I have my max 20 generals, felt like more. I've got a war brewing with the UK so I mass build barracks all over, up to the 100 barracks cap in most of my core provinces. I have about 600 divisions ready for generals, but I was able to recruit only 1 additional general and now I'm at my cap. 500 divisions just kinda sitting around during a war. I notice most big countries in the game have a listed 1600-2000 divisions, I guess because we've all hit the general cap? I do not like this system one bit.
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Mar 23, 2023 18:20
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... Are you remembering to promote your generals?
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Mar 23, 2023 18:32
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20 generals with 100 regiments each for a total of 2000 regiments makes sense, so I guess they have just hit the army cap. Looks like there are a bunch of mods to raise the limit to 100 (like this one) but I get that they shouldn't be required. The game certainly deserves a bit of criticism on the "scaling" front. While it's better now than it used to be, it's still a real chore keeping the construction queue going after you've got 1000 construction or so. Gort fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 18:39
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The game is really nice in the early game, specially for smaller countries. Playing the Oregon Territory or something and building up your 3 states from 2 lumber mills to a local industrial power is really fun and the scale is perfect. Playing 1920's globe spanning France sucks and feels like you've gone well outside the bounds of what the game was designed for.
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Mar 23, 2023 19:58
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Baronjutter posted:The game is really nice in the early game, specially for smaller countries. Playing the Oregon Territory or something and building up your 3 states from 2 lumber mills to a local industrial power is really fun and the scale is perfect. Playing 1920's globe spanning France sucks and feels like you've gone well outside the bounds of what the game was designed for. Full agree, I think this game was made more for smaller major powers in mind, with the GPs being forces of nature to be responded to rather than directly controlled.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:13
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Do your games ever have big, multi-year wars like the ACW and WWI? It always seems like one side gives up quickly due to the war exhaustion mechanic.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:37
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Do your games ever have big, multi-year wars like the ACW and WWI? It always seems like one side gives up quickly due to the war exhaustion mechanic. If both sides have wargoals uncaptured then they can stay on 0 war support for a while. Given how passive the AI is with setting countergoals and how quickly one side tends to capture enough of theirs to push the other side under 0 war support it rarely happens, but I did have a bit of a brawl with Russia as poland until I could punch through to Crimea to liberate it. Was still only a year or two at war though
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Mar 23, 2023 20:51
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I've seen some real weird capitulation behavior. I'm friends with little prussia. The USA out of the blue decided they wanted Mecklenburg and declared war on prussia, and a few german minors joined in thinking it was a great opportunity. I of course sided with Prussia with my thousands of units. The USA never landed a single troop in europe, prussia alone quickly occupied the german minors and actually had war goals to annex them, which they did. Great, Prussia is up 2 states, war is going great. To teach the USA a lesson I landed 300 troops each in Florida, DC, and Maine. My DC landing failed, but Maine and Florida beachheads were established and prussia sent its army over too. We were absolutely carving a swath through the USA closing in on DC when suddenly Prussia gave up and gave the USA Mecklenburg. Again, without the US ever setting foot in europe. I'm guessing the meat grinder of continental USA fighting that Prussia joined in on tipped them over some war exhaustion point? Either way, a very silly result. They should take their allies power into account better, we were absolutely winning and they had 0 provinces occupied.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:59
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Do your games ever have big, multi-year wars like the ACW and WWI? It always seems like one side gives up quickly due to the war exhaustion mechanic. I forced a world war in my Scandinavian game. Diplo played to liberate Finland and it was me, the USA, France and Austria VS Russia, GB, and Prussia. France actually is number one right now. The war went about 4 or 5 years with fighting all over Europe and Africa.
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Mar 23, 2023 21:02
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Baronjutter posted:So I have my max 20 generals, felt like more. I've got a war brewing with the UK so I mass build barracks all over, up to the 100 barracks cap in most of my core provinces. I have about 600 divisions ready for generals, but I was able to recruit only 1 additional general and now I'm at my cap. 500 divisions just kinda sitting around during a war. I notice most big countries in the game have a listed 1600-2000 divisions, I guess because we've all hit the general cap? I've never encountered a war where 600 or so units wasn't sufficient, including late game World War-type scenarios. Are you playing nations with big tech disadvantages? I've also never seen a nation with "1600-2000" units, are you counting conscripts? Or maybe using the army as a jobs program?
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Mar 23, 2023 21:35
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BBJoey posted:For me it’s in the diplomacy. Much as I hated the sphere of influence mechanic in V2 it created a sense that you were actively jockeying for influence with the other great powers across the globe - Britain would be expelling your embassies in Siam, you’d be spreading rumours about France in Persia etc. This creates a feeling that diplomacy was multilateral, that other countries had agency and agendas they were pursuing. Foreign relations in V3 are much more bilateral and its nigh impossible to get a sense of what other countries are doing beyond the blunt tool of war. This makes the game feel pretty lonely during a time period when the world was more interconnected than ever before in history. I feel that the game world lacks an overall sense of ‘liveliness’ that’s deeper than solely other countries initiating plays. It feels lonely, as you said. SoI made the V2 world feel more dynamic and so did, dare I say it, newspapers. Stuff happened, between countries and within them.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:34
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High AI aggression helps, but war exhaustion def needs some tuning
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Mar 23, 2023 22:38
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Imagine reading newspapers. But yeah war exhaustion is annoying. Sometimes it seems like I can't go under 0, sometimes I can, and I have trouble figuring out when I can or not.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:39
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I get past 20 generals pretty easily between having lots of small armies in different theatres for general churning and fighting bush wars on the cheap. Only being able to field armies of 100+ isn't very economical when most of the wars you fight are, like, civil wars between 30 dudes with sticks and matchlocks
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Mar 23, 2023 22:42
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Hellioning posted:Imagine reading newspapers. I do wish this could be part of diplomatic plays, being able to see how the wargoals I'm adding will affect what makes war support drop below 0 for specific people involved in the play. It feels weird that adding war reparations can sometimes let a nation fight a hellwar until their capital is occupied and I'm never sure if it will or not.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:49
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I am having some real trouble trying to get a run going as an Indonesian minor. Between having so many GPs right next to you and your territory being so sparsely populated (especially Borneo, drat) along with needing a decent navy quickly so you can unify all the minors over the various islands, there's too much poo poo to do in too short of a space of time before the UK and DEI has carved up the territory between them. Yeah I can voluntarily become a protectorate but that seems somewhat against the spirit of things of resisting colonial oppression. With that said, maybe becoming a protectorate of DEI before betraying them is exactly the correct move and I'm being too stubborn about it. Their army isn't that large and it's probably feasible to get on par with military tech and have a bigger army, and I have to go to war with them eventually anyway.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:13
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ro5s posted:I do wish this could be part of diplomatic plays, being able to see how the wargoals I'm adding will affect what makes war support drop below 0 for specific people involved in the play. It feels weird that adding war reparations can sometimes let a nation fight a hellwar until their capital is occupied and I'm never sure if it will or not. This might be a bugged? Right now it seems like war support is only clamped to 0 until your primary opposition (the tag you declared the play against) capitulates. After that it's allowed to drop for both sides. I've been bitten by this because generally the primary opposition's call-ins still have a lot of war support left after the primary has capitulated. War goals themselves are also definitely bugged in that wargoals that were enforced against a capitulating tag aren't taken out of the peace deal options, and the AI can get uppity about them.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:31
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Star posted:I feel that the game world lacks an overall sense of ‘liveliness’ that’s deeper than solely other countries initiating plays. It feels lonely, as you said. SoI made the V2 world feel more dynamic and so did, dare I say it, newspapers. Stuff happened, between countries and within them. On that note the quick new popups we’ve been getting lately top center screen helps a lot imo to feel like things are happening outside our influence (like the colony settlements and such). Feel like more have been added to the list.
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Mar 24, 2023 01:15
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I figured out something important that this game needs: When an interest group leader dies or resigns you should be prompted to replace them from one of three candidates, just like generals. Now that multiculturalism, women's suffrage, and council republics/command economy are locked behind leader ideology there needs to be some way to push your country in those directions. Without something it might end up being entirely impossible to, for instance, turn communist. Opportunistically going communist as events develop is cool and all, but that's a huge thing to be entirely out of the players hands. I would also accept a lot more events like that one where a general is politically outspoken and you can assign them to be the leader of their IG as an option. Or maybe it gives you an IG leader but you can pay some cost to bring up an alternate- as long as you can see the ideology of the characters you're choosing between- none of that opaque crap "popular and bad somehow vs young and different somehow" kind of event. Just having one IG leader that supports a particular ideology is not enough to trivialize getting the particular law you want, so as the Spirit of the Nation you should really have some control over it now that it's so critical to so many laws. Yes, I have now played two long games all the way to the 1930s without a single socialist in sight, why do you ask?
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Mar 24, 2023 04:05
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just rush socialism and have marx lead a proletarian revolution, easy
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Mar 24, 2023 07:01
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RabidWeasel posted:I am having some real trouble trying to get a run going as an Indonesian minor. Between having so many GPs right next to you and your territory being so sparsely populated (especially Borneo, drat) along with needing a decent navy quickly so you can unify all the minors over the various islands, there's too much poo poo to do in too short of a space of time before the UK and DEI has carved up the territory between them. Trip report: turns out if you voluntarily become a protectorate your new overlord can immediately start a play against you to make you a puppet, so that isn't a terribly good strategy. On the positive side, all the shenanigans with trying to become a regional power while surrounded by European colonial states has made it clear that there is quite a strong correlation between AI country attitudes and whether or not they will invervene in a play. Countries with the domineering and protective attitude want to make the target into a subject so if an AI state has one of these attitudes toward you they have a very high chance of being swayed into an ongoing diplomatic play. Similarly, they will also intervene in plays against states that they're protective towards if given an obligation by that state. It's a little strange that this information isn't included in the "start a diplomatic play" dialogue somehow, if you want to get a decent feel for the likely outcome of a play you need to check the attitudes towards the target manually
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Mar 24, 2023 10:03
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:just rush socialism and have marx lead a proletarian revolution, easy I once rushed socialism so hard I got Marx and then got the rise of radicalism event chain. My trade unions were furious because I kept declining switching Marx’s ideology from communist to radical 
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Mar 24, 2023 14:47
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Eiba posted:I figured out something important that this game needs: Getting Women's suffrage has an easy workaround, just start/force your settings back to unpropertied women, then once the feminist options open up even the otherwise useless regular liberals will go to the better options.
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Mar 24, 2023 18:36
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One thing that's a little bit weird is that the women's suffrage law sort of represents the final form of women's equality, complete with a further +5% boost to workforce ratio, but you can't get it if you're not a democratic country. Got a command economy going? Sorry, full equality under law isn't possible. Like yeah, I get it, you can't have women's suffrage when nobody has suffrage, but maybe it should be called something else with women's suffrage being one of the effects for democratic countries only. For non-democratic countries, it'd still be worth enacting for the boost to workforce ratio.
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Mar 25, 2023 |
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Mar 25, 2023 01:02
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:just rush socialism and have marx lead a proletarian revolution, easy The game just now I was playing India. I was not exactly in a position to rush anything! I was absolutely overrun by radicals and eventually had an overwhelmingly powerful trade union, but despite there actually being a successful revolution by the massively influential, incredibly radical trade unions to turn poor laws into wage subsidies... no one in power had any sort of socialist tag so there was absolutely no political will- among the literally revolutionary trade unions- to try anything but more capitalism. Half my interest groups did go feminist, which was nice. Got to pass Women's Suffrage. But then none of them died or changed their ideology after that, so there was a whole generation of literally no political progress because the feminists lived forever preventing any other ideas from cropping up. Communism made so much sense for the India I was playing. It started out as liberals in the East India Company loving things up by increasing education and giving the people voting rights. When that ended up just driving radicalism through the roof and profits through the floor they were forced to break away from Britain and try to patch things up. They failed badly and were overwhelmed by a trade union backed revolution. Great narrative so far but then the trade unions... just kept on with the capitalism. With wage subsidies and graduated taxation, of course, but doing nothing to fundamentally address the incredibly rich capitalists and incredibly poor masses. I kept getting a lot of radicals from low standard of living and high literacy but oh well, that's just how things were now. End of history. I had a ton of fun that game anyway- China shattered into a dozen states and I got to play my own version of the Great Game where India, Russia, France and the United States all jockey for influence and territorial control in the ruins of China. Great stuff! I just wish I could have been given the option to do it as a communist! Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:One thing that's a little bit weird is that the women's suffrage law sort of represents the final form of women's equality, complete with a further +5% boost to workforce ratio, but you can't get it if you're not a democratic country. Got a command economy going? Sorry, full equality under law isn't possible. Like yeah, I get it, you can't have women's suffrage when nobody has suffrage, but maybe it should be called something else with women's suffrage being one of the effects for democratic countries only. For non-democratic countries, it'd still be worth enacting for the boost to workforce ratio. Yeah there's a small difference in the workforce ratio, but maybe you just that last bonus specifically from actually empowering common women politically, and if you don't do that you'll just have the same effects as you would if you just allowed them to work. Makes enough sense to me, but I guess maybe they could have the same workforce ratio.
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Mar 25, 2023 01:58
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Is there a way to get rid of an obsession, or are they permanent?
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Mar 25, 2023 02:28
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Is there a way to get rid of an obsession, or are they permanent? Sorry, you are stuck having to play Vicky 3 the rest of your life
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Mar 25, 2023 03:08
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RabidWeasel posted:I am having some real trouble trying to get a run going as an Indonesian minor. Between having so many GPs right next to you and your territory being so sparsely populated (especially Borneo, drat) along with needing a decent navy quickly so you can unify all the minors over the various islands, there's too much poo poo to do in too short of a space of time before the UK and DEI has carved up the territory between them. lanfang starts as a qing tributary which means they're safe from annexation but also in the qing market for infinity immigrants also, has a mildly funny achievement
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Mar 25, 2023 04:09
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Is there a way to get rid of an obsession, or are they permanent? Prohibition can remove a liquor obessession, haven't seen any others able to be removed
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Mar 25, 2023 04:49
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Google Jeb Bush posted:lanfang starts as a qing tributary which means they're safe from annexation but also in the qing market for infinity immigrants Yeah, but you don't get to form Indonesia, hard pass
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Mar 25, 2023 09:31
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Yuiiut posted:Prohibition can remove a liquor obessession, haven't seen any others able to be removed i've got 100m russians obsessed with loving coffee, and it's ruining their standard of living because they refuse to spend less on coffee
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Mar 25, 2023 09:51
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Understandable.
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Mar 25, 2023 11:30
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RabidWeasel posted:Yeah, but you don't get to form Indonesia, hard pass 
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