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Name Change posted:Surprised there's little or no TikTok chat in here. The U.S. government seems poised on a bipartisan level to ban it or force a sale, either of which would be quite ridiculous given the zero evidence that TikTok is any more nefarious than any other social media company (in which the answer can still be Very). I don't think there's zero evidence. There was quite a stir about a year and a half back regarding the nefarious data scraping that TikTok does, including installing VPNs and routinely encrypting data when sending data back to the motherland. I believe one security professional said it something along the lines of they are actively trying to prevent the end user to figure out what data is being collected and taking steps to mitigate that.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:11
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I think I have a minority position, among people who don't simply hate China, anyway - I think TikTok can go gently caress itself and it absolutely concerns me from a safety perspective. If the Chinese government found that the US government was capable of soliciting gigantic amounts of data about their population, and disseminating propaganda to it seamlessly, you don't think it would be reasonable for them to be concerned about that? Hell they don't even allow most of our websites. That said, the political optics and potential fallout of "10,000 year old Democratic President, put into office by the youth vote, bans thing youths like" kind of terrify me more than anything that ByteDance might be feeding the Xi regime. The best option would probably be to force a sale to a US company. I think it's a kind of difficult situation and the 535 people in charge of deciding what we do are definitely not the right ones to be doing it, because basically none of them are subject matter experts at all.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:13
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Name Change posted:Surprised there's little or no TikTok chat in here. The U.S. government seems poised on a bipartisan level to ban it or force a sale, either of which would be quite ridiculous given the zero evidence that TikTok is any more nefarious than any other social media company (in which the answer can still be Very). TikTok got caught spying on American journalists, they had Chinese staff access American user information, and they are bound by Chinese law to provide the government with any data they need. 80% of what TikTok does is what American social media companies also do, but it's also really not surprising that something that has been used for spying and is subject to control by a foreign government is not something the U.S. likes and would prefer that they force a sale to have the company bound by American laws. https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/12/22/tiktok-tracks-forbes-journalists-bytedance/?sh=a477dce7da57 Democratic Governor of North Carolina finally secured a deal with the Republican legislature to expand Medicaid under Obamacare. North Carolina was one of the last holdouts. It will be the 41st state to accept Medicaid expansion. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1638963826665091082
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Mar 23, 2023 20:15
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TikTok is a terrible blight on society in a way that has nothing at all to do with China. The fact that other social media companies are also bad isn't a point in it favor.Mellow Seas posted:That said, the political optics and potential fallout of "10,000 year old Democratic President, put into office by the youth vote, bans thing youths like" kind of terrify me more than anything that ByteDance might be feeding the Xi regime. The best option would probably be to force a sale to a US company. Young people don't actually have any loyalty to social media companies, they're only on them because their friends and people they admire are on them. If it's banned, they'll just go on to the next one. The fact that every social media company is already copying TikTok makes it even easier. It doesn't offer anything unique anymore, it just has the most inertia with its format.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:20
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Trump apparently thinks Covid is his weak spot and is going anti-vaxxer. If that 100 year old died 4 minutes after getting the vaccine I'm still going to place my bets on him dying BECAUSE HES 100 loving YEARS OLD and not the vaccine.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:21
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I think they should just regulate data scraping from apps in general. It would better improve people's data security and privacy, and it would feel like they are standing up for the people, instead of feeling like they are banning a thing kids like because of scaremongering. And yes, this would cut into FAANG's bottom lines and therefore probably won't happen, but this is a "they should" post and not a "they will" post.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:23
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Mellow Seas posted:Poor Ron put years of effort into carefully crafting a narrative and didn't consider that Trump could absolutely demolish it among his potential constituency by going "nuh uh." The man spent so long building up to his master trick of turning the tables on Trump only to suddenly realize that Donald Trump is capable of rotating the whole loving dining room in retaliation.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:25
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Tiktok should die but it will be an interesting court case if it gets banned and the government has to explain why Tiktok is not allowed to do all the stuff that other sites can do. A surpreme court case for what is the exact line that you can't cross. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 20:26
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CuddleCryptid posted:Tiktok should die but it will be an interesting court case if it gets banned and the government has to explain why Tiktok is not allowed to do all the stuff that other sites can do. You know it'll be some general hand waving at CHINA! and American security.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:29
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arent tiktok ripoffs not doing so hot themseleves? like granted its because the OG tiktok still exists, but I doubt youtube shorts and whatever astronomically distant 2nd and 3rd place thing are going to make gains.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:31
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Old Surly posted:You know it'll be some general hand waving at CHINA! and American security. Naturally but at the same time, we aren't at war with China. Legally speaking anything that applies to them also applies to any other foreign nation, including most European ones, because they aren't a hostile power. So, what, when Twitter tells the German government anytime someone talks positively about the Nazis per German law that means the sites has to be shut down?
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Mar 23, 2023 20:33
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CuddleCryptid posted:Tiktok should die but it will be an interesting court case if it gets banned and the government has to explain why Tiktok is not allowed to do all the stuff that other sites can do. All the big tech companies that have done data-scraping without telling the user have been fined. Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and WhatsApp have been fined for hidden data-scraping. Facebook is the only one that has gotten a semi-meaningful fine. There's just not a ton of penalties for it because the law hasn't really caught up to tech. They don't want to actually ban TikTok, they want to force a sale. Trying to ban it would be extremely tough. It is why Biden reversed Trump's order to ban it - he didn't think it would pass legal muster.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:All the big tech companies that have done data-scraping without telling the user have been fined. Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and WhatsApp have been fined for hidden data-scraping. No one wants to buy it in the current environment, so if they force a sale it will be well below actual valuation I'd imagine. I can't imagine forcing a company to change hands based on vibes from things every other company is doing will not meet legal challenges either.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:41
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The TikTok hearing in of itself is not a bad thing. The American people do need to know what TikTok is doing with the data they harvest since they are essentially owned by a hostile foreign power. But the hearing is a total clown show just like any other Congressional hearing about anything technology related. Like call me ageist I don't care, these boomer rear end congresspeople are the last people that should be grilling any tech CEO. But that's who makes up the majority of our government, so I don't know what else can be done. Maybe get their kids or grandkids to do it? Some great questions from the hearing (I'm paraphrasing since I'm going off memory) "Mr CEO, DOES TIKTOK STORE USER CREDIT CARD INFO??" Like I don't even know if tiktok has any kind of transactional element to it but if it did and it stored credit card info so what that's pretty drat normal for lots of apps. You know who else stores credit card info? Netflix. "Mr. CEO, YOU SAID IN YOUR EARLIER TESTIMONY THAT TIKTOK DOESNT DO (thing I can't remember) WELL I JUST TEXTED MY 17 YEAR AND SHE SAID IT DOES!" Also the CEO really wasn't answering anything with a straight answer so that was just making the congresspeople even more mad. But yeah gently caress TikTok it's a plague on society. But you can say that about any social media.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:41
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Not the most critically important issue in the world, but a very big and positive change: The FTC is implementing a new rule that requires all companies that charge a subscription fee or uses a recurring payment system to provide an online option to cancel your subscription in plain view that can not have more steps or information required than it took to initiate the subscription. It also includes a lot of smaller changes that ban deceptive practices regarding payment schedules and free trials. 1980's standup comedians will not be surprised to learn that gym chains are extremely opposed to this rule and were lobbying against it. https://twitter.com/FTC/status/1638848645750730758 quote:The Federal Trade Commission today proposed a “click to cancel” provision requiring sellers to make it as easy for consumers to cancel their enrollment as it was to sign up. That is just one of several significant updates the Commission is proposing to its rules regarding subscriptions and recurring payments. The new click to cancel provision, along with other proposals, would go a long way to rescuing consumers from seemingly never-ending struggles to cancel unwanted subscription payment plans for everything from cosmetics to newspapers to gym memberships.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:All the big tech companies that have done data-scraping without telling the user have been fined. Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and WhatsApp have been fined for hidden data-scraping. Sure, they were fined, but no one forced them to sell their companies, that's my point. If they are going to play the "you must sell to an American company or be banned" card then they have to define exactly why their policies are bad, since "gives information to the government when they ask for it" applies to basically every website in existence.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:43
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CuddleCryptid posted:Sure, they were fined, but no one forced them to sell their companies, that's my point. If they are going to play the "you must sell to an American company or be banned" card then they have to define exactly why their policies are bad, since "gives information to the government when they ask for it" applies to basically every website in existence. It is 100% because of the Chinese National Security law that allows China to both access data and run the software. That is a little beyond just "gives the information to the government when asked for it," but that is pretty much the point. If it were an American company (or any other country), then they wouldn't care. They would just fine them, make them stop, and then when they found a new way to do it they would fine them again and start over. It's that the Chinese government has the ability to both run the software and collect data via TikTok through the 2017 National Security law and has been caught using that ability rather than anything about TikTok specifically. If Weibo was as popular as Google in the U.S., then they would want to do the same thing there.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:48
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CuddleCryptid posted:Naturally but at the same time, we aren't at war with China. Legally speaking anything that applies to them also applies to any other foreign nation, including most European ones, because they aren't a hostile power. So, what, when Twitter tells the German government anytime someone talks positively about the Nazis per German law that means the sites has to be shut down? Charliegrs posted:If that 100 year old died 4 minutes after getting the vaccine I'm still going to place my bets on him dying BECAUSE HES 100 loving YEARS OLD and not the vaccine. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 20:49
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Charliegrs posted:The TikTok hearing in of itself is not a bad thing. The American people do need to know what TikTok is doing with the data they harvest since they are essentially owned by a hostile foreign power. But the hearing is a total clown show just like any other Congressional hearing about anything technology related. Like call me ageist I don't care, these boomer rear end congresspeople are the last people that should be grilling any tech CEO. But that's who makes up the majority of our government, so I don't know what else can be done. Maybe get their kids or grandkids to do it? Everyone in the hearing is coming off extremely badly. 90% of the members of congress are trying to get tech support live on air. The Tiktok CEO keeps saying, "We don't store American data. Well, we do store it, but it's deleted. Okay, not all of it is deleted, but I will make sure we start deleting it soon." and "Tiktok respects privacy and has policies in place to govern turning over data and control to the Chinese government in compliance with the 2017 National Security law. Also, I haven't really heard about this security law and it is such a non-issue that we haven't even thought about it. Except for those strict policies governing it I mentioned earlier."
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Mar 23, 2023 20:54
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Mellow Seas posted:And most countries aren't taking openly adversarial actions against our allies like China is in the South China Sea. (And, not a minor point, no other country is actually capable of competing economically with the US.) There's a big gap between "at war" and "we're cool." Yeah, but what is the legal percentage of "uncool" do we need to be for our legal system to say that the law can uniquely be applied to them without being prejudicial, that's the question. You can run legislation based off vibes but if it able to be taken to court then they'll have to lay out how "not cool" we are with China which is sticky. VVV Sure, that's what they want, but everyone knows they don't have a leg to stand on, including Tiktok, and a sale would cause them to lose a ton of money. There's really no reason why they would blink. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 20:55
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah, but what is the legal percentage of "uncool" do we need to be for our legal system to say that the law can uniquely be applied to them without being prejudicial, that's the question. You can run legislation based off vibes but if it able to be taken to court then they'll have to lay out how "not cool" we are with China which is sticky. The U.S. has very little legal leg to stand on except to claim national security regulations that govern "international sensitive data transmission" gives them the right to ban TikTok. That is exactly why they don't want to actually ban it. They don't want to go through the whole court process because it would be very tough and probably require a new law. They just want to threaten to ban it to force a sale to an American company that hosts data in America.
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Mar 23, 2023 21:00
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah, but what is the legal percentage of "uncool" do we need to be for our legal system to say that the law can uniquely be applied to them without being prejudicial, that's the question. You can run legislation based off vibes but if it able to be taken to court then they'll have to lay out how "not cool" we are with China which is sticky. It seems like the part of the paragraph you left out of the quote is super relevant to your question, doesn't it? Since that sounds to be where the (legal) meat of the complaint lies.
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Mar 23, 2023 21:04
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There very obviously need to be laws crafted regarding data privacy. They aren't going to pass any laws like that because this is just about screaming CHINA CHINA CHINA, they don't care about data privacy when companies from anywhere else do it
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Mar 23, 2023 21:05
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Killer robot posted:It seems like the part of the paragraph you left out of the quote is super relevant to your question, doesn't it? Since that sounds to be where the (legal) meat of the complaint lies. I left it out because they haven't actually come into sustained direct conflict with any allies, they just claim territory and throw their weight around. Its aggressive but again, they haven't actually attacked one of our allies. And if "claiming land as yours off flimsy pretenses and then moving your military in so no one can get it back" is illegal under our system then we have some investments in Israel to recoup. I really do think that they are just going to keep charging ahead even if they keep getting pulled back into congressional committees for questioning because there isn't a reason for them to fold.
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Mar 23, 2023 21:37
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It is 100% because of the Chinese National Security law that allows China to both access data and run the software. This is BTW access that the U.S. government wishes it had. The reason there's no rush to regulate social media data usage is because all governments can and do weaponize it. Left-wingers would like to regulate it, of course. Right-wingers are just mad that they don't have complete control over the apps.
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Mar 23, 2023 21:43
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I have a friend who's theory is that Tik Tok pays content creators more than YT or IG and the tech companies are paying legislators to ban the competition
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Mar 23, 2023 22:07
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Jaxyon posted:I have a friend who's theory is that Tik Tok pays content creators more than YT or IG and the tech companies are paying legislators to ban the competition I mean it’s not a theory that’s a big part of it. Security is not even an important issue in this debate.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:18
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TikTok pays creators much less than Youtube, at least. It's popular because it's better than the competition and more fun. There's just a lot lined up against it: Not just Chinese, but the only big internet company that's not American. Hugely popular with teens, and therefore suspicious to older people (including Millenials). Eating Facebook's lunch, so Meta has been targeting it with a lobbying campaign
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Mar 23, 2023 22:29
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Jaxyon posted:I have a friend who's theory is that Tik Tok pays content creators more than YT or IG and the tech companies are paying legislators to ban the competition The most powerful/profitable companies in America are all losing their lunch to TikTok, of course that's what its about. It will also read as mask-off American Imperialism imposing heavy handed support to those domestic firms everywhere else in the world.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:45
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How is it eating Facebook's lunch? Teens don't use Facebook and wouldn't do so even if there was no TikTok.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:47
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Teens aren’t the only people who use TikTok. I think - don’t have numbers right now - that Facebook engagement has really plummeted among its original core user base - people born between 80 and 95, say, you know, goon-aged people - and those people do use TikTok. Most of their market share has probably been lost to Instagram though, so it’s awfully convenient for Meta that they get all that money too.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:54
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Jaxyon posted:I have a friend who's theory is that Tik Tok pays content creators more than YT or IG and the tech companies are paying legislators to ban the competition Your friend is wildly off base. TikTok is the worst paying platform of all of the big ones. Making it on Youtube is where the money still is. People make it on TikTok with the intent to then expand into the money of Youtube.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Not the most critically important issue in the world, but a very big and positive change: The FTC is implementing a new rule that requires all companies that charge a subscription fee or uses a recurring payment system to provide an online option to cancel your subscription in plain view that can not have more steps or information required than it took to initiate the subscription. It also includes a lot of smaller changes that ban deceptive practices regarding payment schedules and free trials. It's not the big news of the media (or this thread) at the moment but... While everything else is on fire it's oddly, weirdly nice to live in a time when some of the governments regulatory bodies are actually doing their jobs and actually regulating.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:01
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As it's been described to me, TikTok pays garbage but is much, much better about putting content from smaller creators in front of people than the rest. Start on there, then shift to YT when you're big enough, is the general line of thinking I've also heard. I don't think it's anything more complicated than just what TikTok chooses to prioritize to show up in people's feeds. My views on social media are pretty well known at this point, and my stance is just that if it gets crushed then whatever was used to crush them should be applied to all the rest. I can think of a hundred thousand things that bother me more than the CCP having some browsing info on me they could just buy legally if they wanted, or personal info they could get from one of the private for-profit companies like Experian that gets it without my consent and leak it over here. I don't actually use it tho so I guess the main thing they'd know is that I can't stand vertical video.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:03
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There's a group of bimbos that are up to no good:quote:he U.S. Department of Labor has intervened in a case involving three Vermont delivery truck drivers who sued a multinational baking conglomerate for allegedly misclassifying them as independent contractors. https://vtdigger.org/2023/03/23/u-s-department-of-labor-intervenes-in-vermonters-suit-against-bimbo-baking-conglomerate/ US DOL release: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/sol/sol20230321 I've never heard of contract workers being sued for making wage claims. It seems more like a SLAPP-like tactic instead of something that could legally hold water. Related, several days ago Ethisphere named Grupo Bimbo one of the world's most ethical companies. https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/23467-ethisphere-recognizes-kellogg-pepsico-for-ethical-practices
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Mar 24, 2023 00:35
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Tuxedo Gin posted:How is it eating Facebook's lunch? Teens don't use Facebook and wouldn't do so even if there was no TikTok. Giant corporations don't usually throw up their hands and say "well this massive demographic doesn't like us, guess there's nothing we can do".
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Mar 24, 2023 00:46
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cat botherer posted:There's a group of bimbos that are up to no good: I think that's why the DOL stepped in to make it absolutely clear "No, this does not fly. Stop your poo poo immediately."
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Mar 24, 2023 00:53
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Fister Roboto posted:Giant corporations don't usually throw up their hands and say "well this massive demographic doesn't like us, guess there's nothing we can do". Alkydere posted:I think that's why the DOL stepped in to make it absolutely clear "No, this does not fly. Stop your poo poo immediately."
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Mar 24, 2023 00:59
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Zotix posted:Your friend is wildly off base. TikTok is the worst paying platform of all of the big ones. Making it on Youtube is where the money still is. People make it on TikTok with the intent to then expand into the money of Youtube. Yeah iirc since individual videos don't run ads all the ad revenue gets put into a big pile and then a fraction of it is redistributed to the video makers. It's largely arbitrary and they keep a huge share of the money so even big people aren't making that much off of it.
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Mar 24, 2023 01:03
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From what I understand, Meta knows Facebook has a serious "this website is for your aunt to post JFK Jr. memes" problem. Their concern re: TikTok is a belief that TikTok is draining Instagram (or at least slowing its growth), and any campaign against TikTok is solely to stanch that bleeding rather than a belief that there's any mortal force which can get teenagers to use Facebook in TYooL 2023. In reality, of course, the story of social media is the story of teenagers outrunning their parents and it's therefore the destiny of all social media to die to a different site not currently lousy with adults. If TikTok wasn't the round in the chamber, it would be something else.
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