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It seemed like they were dangerously close to accepting the Wall Street Journal framing of "Bare Minimum Mondays" as if it's some actual new Gen Z thing, as opposed to literally the oldest joke in the entire history of employment. "Mondays, am I right?" Having that as the basis of the episode's biggest running gag just seemed kind of embarrassing. (I'm not sure if it was actually the WSJ but it was some pure strain boomer crap either way)
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Mar 26, 2023 01:43
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I still have to disagree. I think they portrayed Cartman as using the language of people who have legitimate issues for nefarious purposes: being a lazy lovely rear end in a top hat. If you think they came at it from a horrible boomer-brained WSJ or New York Times columnist perspective then that means they are portraying Cartman as the good guy in the episode, which they definitely are not.
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Mar 26, 2023 02:09
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Mister Speaker posted:This is a bit surprising to me, as weren't Matt and Trey kind of openly on the wrong side of the writers' strike? Canada Goes On Strike was entirely mocking the issue and I think it was poorly received for that reason, but I could be wrong. They do have a tendency to walk back some of their shittier takes years later; someone upthread mentioned Al Gore's redemption over ManBearPig and I think they also 'apologized' for making fun of alcoholism via episode (though I can't remember which episode it was). Sometimes the damage is already done, but at least they have that humility. I wonder if they've been enlightened, for lack of a better word, about union and workers' rights issues since then. Yea maybe saying writers was a mistake on my part as there isn't too many credited writers on South Park on IMDB and IMDB lists Matt & Trey like 6 times as writers. They obviously had the wrong take on the writers strike, but they've always been very much against Hollywood as a whole. MPAA, SAG, etc were all big targets in the 2000s for them.
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Mar 26, 2023 02:36
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I had a manager in retail that would often decide to "work from home" so I thought it was funny.
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Mar 26, 2023 04:20
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still have to disagree. I think they portrayed Cartman as using the language of people who have legitimate issues for nefarious purposes: being a lazy lovely rear end in a top hat. If you think they came at it from a horrible boomer-brained WSJ or New York Times columnist perspective then that means they are portraying Cartman as the good guy in the episode, which they definitely are not. It can be two things, or one thing executed poorly.
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Mar 26, 2023 04:58
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I deffo think it was boomer humor and kind of stale at that, it's always "rich" seeing mega wealthy guys who work on passion projects which they own preach to the rest of us about the value of hard labor or some poo poo, and it's always the Musks and Parkers of the world who have dream jobs where they pretty much get to boss people around, and of course they later tell you about 'the crunch' like keeping an exhausted crew at the office for 15 hours until they figure out a pun or some slide in a presentation is personally taxing on you, the guy who owns the venture and who stands to profit the most from all of this. Matt and Trey chose to do this 6 days to air thing, it's not some fact of life they just have to deal with and it's grinding them down, it's how they want to work, kind of very 'millenial' of them, why couldn't they just make animated shows like everyone else? was it because part of their whole appeal is that they found a way to quickly produce animated content by making it simpler and cutting some corners instead of spending 3 months on each episode making it not look like poo poo? who knows, it's just preachy, like, guys making millions shouldn't spend so much time complaining about the work ethics of the guys "who are making their lattes" or whatever, it's a bad look.
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Mar 26, 2023 05:21
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Every single one of my bosses in the service industry (mostly owners, but the occasional GM/KM) has griped to me about how busy they are or how many hours they worked. I've had to hold my tongue from saying anything every time. The only one I had sympathy for was my manager at the arcade, who is legitimately a friend and while not without fault, went to bat for us many times. He agreed to a salaried position and essentially ran the entire place seven days a week while the absentee owner would send him angry micromanagement texts. I think he worked out his hourly equivalent one month to like $8. Also had an Exec Chef at another job complain to me that he was getting calls from management over the course of a Canada Day weekend he took up north. This was right after he showed me videos on his phone of him shooting off a bunch of guns and fireworks... while I was putting together meals on the line. I complained to HR about that and it went nowhere, that shithead chef got away with so much. Seems like a lot of people in management/ownership positions never took Uncle Ben's mantra to heart.
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Mar 26, 2023 09:58
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Matt and Trey chose to do this 6 days to air thing, it's not some fact of life they just have to deal with and it's grinding them down, it's how they want to work, kind of very 'millenial' of them, why couldn't they just make animated shows like everyone else? So back in 1998 having a show that was topical was rather fun. Even if it aged poorly or dates badly. The best serialized episode was the metor shower. So was the carrman dad episode. But when the daily show and now twitter/youtube/ tiktok you have have parody a full 20 minutes after an even so the weekly topical poo poo doesnt hit like it should. Anyway I m just sad because normally abusing butters is fun. Like when he had a kissing company.
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Mar 26, 2023 11:02
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Ups_rail posted:So back in 1998 having a show that was topical was rather fun. Even if it aged poorly or dates badly. The Daily Show is not live. Pretty sure it's still taped in the morning.
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Mar 26, 2023 13:18
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Lmao sorry about the workplace rant, I was working the graveyard shift and forgot what thread I was in. Timby posted:The Daily Show is not live. Pretty sure it's still taped in the morning. Late afternoon/early evening, I think. I remember Stewart mentioning it once or twice. I think Seth Meyers does the same thing. They gotta get home to dinner with their families, but they still want a bit of a news day. I'm watching the episode now and yeah, this sounds a lot like boomer apologetics so far. I'm hoping for some big subversive turn but I don't think it's gonna happen, Matt and Trey have pulled that off before but honestly I don't know if they're savvy enough to do it anymore. I did laugh out loud at the real hotdog stock footage set to Thus Sprach Zarathustra, with the one quick shot of the Penis Museum snuck in there. The restaurant name gag with the reporter is also good. They've still got it, when it comes to juvenile vulgarity. I forgot about Butters' bizarrely abusive parents too, lmao. Does the 'took mah jerb' guy show up regularly? That episode must have been more than a decade ago. Actually I wonder if there is some other reference going on; were there 'gourmet hotdog' restaurants that bilked their investors? They're definitely going after 'millennial work ethic issues' but this restaurant thing feels a bit targeted.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:09
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still have to disagree. I think they portrayed Cartman as using the language of people who have legitimate issues for nefarious purposes: being a lazy lovely rear end in a top hat. If you think they came at it from a horrible boomer-brained WSJ or New York Times columnist perspective then that means they are portraying Cartman as the good guy in the episode, which they definitely are not. If they'd confined the joke to Cartman doing it then it would have been fine. The problem was that everyone else, except Butters, was also doing the same poo poo because they were lazy too. It wasn't a situation where Cartman was confronted with real employees making legitimate demands, but rather more bad actors abusing the system. And the counter argument was just Butters working his rear end off and getting lucky on being able to flip his business.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:19
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PaybackJack posted:I appreciated that at least they included the redneck guy in there to try and diversify their group beyond millennials but clearly all the jokes were taken from conservative talking points that trash the work ethic of the younger generation which is clearly inline with their thinking because there was no counterargument. I can actually forgive them for global warming because a lot of the joke is centered around Gore being a poor person to deliver the message, here though everyone was just whiny because I guess they're stuck on the idea that mental health is just something you need to "tough out" or whatever. If you can't focus on your job, and the performance of your job suffers as a result then it really shouldn't matter if you're sick or mentally drained as to why you need to have a sick day. That's a nice convenient way to dismiss it, but if you think only conservatives can see a lot of younger people use those talking points to gently caress off then you're out of touch. If you're a 20 year old and need a mental health day because your last two 4-hour shifts at McDonalds were too rough for you, you might need to toughen the gently caress up. Those kind of people ruin for the ones who are actually suffering at their job with deadlines and mandatory 20 hours of OT a week. Contrary to most young people's opinion, sometimes you do need to toughen the gently caress up. When you're told that it's ok and make excuses for everyone and never push kids to grow even if it makes them uncomfortable, you get the kind of 20 year olds I have to deal with on a daily basis that may be book smart as hell but have zero common sense or ability to think for themselves. I'm speaking in general, but every year the lowest common denominator gets lower and lower. Edit: VV I'm happy that you're trying to dunk on me with some other tv thread bullshit you can't be bothered to mention other than to sum it up as "edgelord", but I've work on a campus with a student population of about 70k 18-24 year olds for almost 20 years. This happens to be a topic I have a lot of expertise in but if you think you have more experience with young generations and actually have something relevant to say please let me know. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 15:37
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Lmao Oh yeah i remember you defending edgelord poo poo in some other TVIV threads.
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Mar 26, 2023 15:45
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Reminds me of my days doing jobs in the service industry. It seemed like my managers were always really lame in some way, but when I was in management the workers were always driving me nuts.
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Mar 26, 2023 16:01
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ChesterJT posted:a campus with a student population of about 70k 18-24 year olds for almost 20 years. Howdy from UT at Austin, going on 13 myself. I ask because, one of those is my alma mater and sister school to my long term and current employer that I collaborate with frequently. You aren't entirely wrong with your assessment of the student body. There's a lot of kids there raised by republicans to believe lying and cheating is the 'smart' thing to do to get ahead in the world, and they love to co-opt legitimate complaints for their own lazy behavior. And further like cartman, they can't understand the hypocrisy of decrying the very thing they themselves did once it no longer directly benefits themselves. The other is a party school of Floridians that us better universities don't have much contact with because we aren't putting together a 'wrong answers only' meme. Slyphic fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 16:19
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So I'm 34 and like every other person in America in the late 90s, I just had to watch SP. I think it was like a legit cultural phenomenon. I stopped watching a long time ago because I just stopped watching TV altogether a long time ago but I'm nostalgic and wanted to go back and check out the SP I grew up with. But I read that Parker and Stone actually hate the early seasons? Is that true?
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Mar 26, 2023 17:18
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NikkolasKing posted:I read that Parker and Stone actually hate the early seasons? Is that true? The attribution is an Entertainment Weekly slide deck discussing an anniversary edition boxset. But the link is broken and the IA copy is obnoxious to navigate to get you a specific URL, so just trust me, or don't. I mostly agree with them, and especially if you're an adult you don't need any of the context from the first 3 seasons because you'll distantly remember them when and if they ever come up again. Season 4 onwards, commence the rewatch! Slyphic fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 17:28
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I have to agree with them as well. The first three seasons are mostly cringe and it's not enough to outweigh the bits of nostalgia I pick up from when they were new and I had to sneak in watching them during my middle school years.
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Mar 26, 2023 17:51
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ChesterJT posted:That's a nice convenient way to dismiss it, but if you think only conservatives can see a lot of younger people use those talking points to gently caress off then you're out of touch. If you're a 20 year old and need a mental health day because your last two 4-hour shifts at McDonalds were too rough for you, you might need to toughen the gently caress up. Those kind of people ruin for the ones who are actually suffering at their job with deadlines and mandatory 20 hours of OT a week. Contrary to most young people's opinion, sometimes you do need to toughen the gently caress up. When you're told that it's ok and make excuses for everyone and never push kids to grow even if it makes them uncomfortable, you get the kind of 20 year olds I have to deal with on a daily basis that may be book smart as hell but have zero common sense or ability to think for themselves. I'm speaking in general, but every year the lowest common denominator gets lower and lower. Give all those 20 year olds ten years and either a) they'll learn a work ethic because they have to to survive, or b) they'll maintain their lovely work ethic because their parents will continue to insulate them from the effects of failure(which is probably why they have the lovely work ethic in the first place). Meanwhile as you sit at work and suffer your 20 hours of mandatory unpaid OT, maybe blame the administration that continues to raise tuition, tells you that they can't afford to hire another person to provide redundancy for your job, and cuts the president of the university a million dollar bonus every year. The discussion isn't really about the 20 year old that doesn't want to work their shift at McDonalds; it's about the 40 year old that has been busting their rear end for 10 years working those 20 OT hours every week because they need the job to take care of their family and has had it drilled into their head that stress and anxiety are things that are solved by "toughening up". The fact that you seem to think the issue revolves around 20 year olds tells me that those conservative talking points are actually hitting their mark.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:31
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PaybackJack posted:it's about the 40 year old that has been busting their rear end for 10 years working those 20 OT hours every week because they need the job to take care of their family and has had it drilled into their head that stress and anxiety are things that are solved by "toughening up". huh? attention all 40 year olds who work to make ends meet: you can and should be taking mental health days and protesting the system instead of doing your job! that will fix everything!
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Mar 26, 2023 19:07
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ShoogaSlim posted:attention all 40 year olds who work to make ends meet: you can and should be taking mental health days and protesting the system instead of doing your job! that will fix everything! So yes. Slyphic fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 19:38
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There is so much bad faith in these arguments, and it's funny because these are exactly the same talking points that the episode pretty much regurgitated, the hardest working people in our society are not the wealthiest, hard work is not at all correlated to the accumulation of wealth, the only people who believe you can grab yourself by your own bootstraps to become incredibly wealthy are either people who got extremely lucky or people who already had much better opening conditions, writing South Park isn't harder than being the janitor who cleans their building, and really this is all extremely stupid because nobody values Matt and Trey's work by how hard they work, so really I don't know, this is circular and stupid, the world is changing and yeah some young people who face the prospect of minimum wage servitude without the real chance to amass and meaningful capital on their own might not be super enthused about working in some boomer's restaurant.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:07
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still have to disagree. I think they portrayed Cartman as using the language of people who have legitimate issues for nefarious purposes: being a lazy lovely rear end in a top hat. If you think they came at it from a horrible boomer-brained WSJ or New York Times columnist perspective then that means they are portraying Cartman as the good guy in the episode, which they definitely are not. They're Republicans. Extremely wealthy ones. That leaks into their art.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:12
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I still think the moral of the episode is just "Cartman sucks". Like, he spends the whole episode being a terrible lazy rear end in a top hat manger who wastes someone else's money on frivolous purchases and spends all his time getting mad at other people for not working (even though HE'S the one not doing work) even if the reason they aren't working is something completely legitimate like "I don't want to be your employee because your restaurant has a terrible name, you seem like a douche bag, and you refuse to pay more than minimum wage" or "I just need a few minutes every hour to check my insulin levels so I don't die". The problem isn't people not wanting to work, the episode is full of people working, "no one wants to work" is just the excuse Cartman uses to avoid taking responsibility for his own incompetence and poor choices. No one wants to work for Cartman because Cartman will exploit you, take credit for your work, treat you terribly, and mismanage any of your money he gets his hands on. Butters gets stuck working for Cartman for a bit, but he immediately bails as soon as he's able to financially and strikes a deal with Cartman's mom to screw Cartman over because Cartman is the worst. The lesson here is "Don't tell Cartman things about your life because he might get involved with what you're doing and ruin every thing" which is the lesson of a lot of South Park episodes (Like, remember the drone episode? Yet another time talking to Cartman ruined something Butter's was enjoying). Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 23:18
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I was annoyed initially that they were seemingly playing the "PeOpLe JuSt DoN'T WaNt tO WoRk AnYmOrE" card straight, but the more I think about it, it doesn't seem to be the case. I think they looked at both sides here the way they used to always do do. Cartman plays both roles in this episode: the right's stereotype of liberals/millennials and also the actual reason people "don't want to work" in the first place. Unfortunately, the chuds aren't going to see this episode that way and will think the show was 100% on their side like they always do.
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Mar 27, 2023 00:05
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The episode was engaging with both sides of the debate, sure, but not on the issue of mental health. Any time a character wants to take a sick day it's always framed as a bad faith manipulation of the system, and employers are stymied and their hands are tied (I guess the implicit argument is because people with mental health issues are now considered a protected class? the episode doesn't really go into detail about why "mental health day" is considered an automatic gotcha). That's the bullshit right there. Plenty of times people with actual mental health issues are treated like poo poo, caught between employers who don't give a gently caress and employees (or the idea of employees) who manipulate the system, but the episode basically argues that mental health days are straight up scams dressed up in hipster language. They're not.
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Mar 27, 2023 00:16
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ChesterJT posted:That's a nice convenient way to dismiss it, but if you think only conservatives can see a lot of younger people use those talking points to gently caress off then you're out of touch. If you're a 20 year old and need a mental health day because your last two 4-hour shifts at McDonalds were too rough for you, you might need to toughen the gently caress up. Those kind of people ruin for the ones who are actually suffering at their job with deadlines and mandatory 20 hours of OT a week. Contrary to most young people's opinion, sometimes you do need to toughen the gently caress up. When you're told that it's ok and make excuses for everyone and never push kids to grow even if it makes them uncomfortable, you get the kind of 20 year olds I have to deal with on a daily basis that may be book smart as hell but have zero common sense or ability to think for themselves. I'm speaking in general, but every year the lowest common denominator gets lower and lower. You sound exactly like the kind of person who wouldn’t take a job at McDonald’s if you got canned and that was all you could get because “it’s beneath me”, meanwhile in reality you’d quit after a 20 hour week of 4 hour dinner rush shifts. It’s always quite telling who never ever had to work a service industry job, or those who worked some weird one where they barely interacted with customers like a gas station attendant in a wealthy area. ShoogaSlim posted:huh? Yes. And yes. And yes. This is the loving point. Everyone should be doing this. Just because your dumb rear end was conditioned to accept that bullshit doesn’t mean everyone else should too.
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Mar 27, 2023 00:37
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All of this. Before working my first customer service job, I had a sort of emo goth angst phase on about how people suck. After my first month and learning just how petty and spiteful the customers can be for the dumbest of reasons, gently caress me if that sentiment didn't become real. I was lucky too, I only worked the phones while the people at the front desk had to deal with them in person, and in one case, an altercation almost became physical. And that's not even getting into how lovely office gossip works on a general level. I'm talking stupid racist sexist bullshit that would make the news if it was ever said by a politician or celebrity or anyone with any sort of real power. Mental health days are the least of what should be expected if you're working minimum wage to put up with spoiled pampered assholes on the regular. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 02:02
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Mar 27, 2023 03:24
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I wonder if it has ever happened that a stupid, fat, racist ever just had the idea one day to open a hot dog stand. But that goal was too far fetched so they had to reach out to a 3rd party to pay for the thing. Some kind of simple repurposing of a location or a device where they could cook up some cheap hot snacks. Then they ran into remodeling issues and asked for even more money. But after some experience they realized they had plum gave out after a short amount of time. Then they went to hire some people and had some demanding employment requirements. Then they just opened it and it all collapsed soon after. But in this version the worker (.) managed to cash out early and easily. Leaving the owner to move on with his endeavors.
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Mar 27, 2023 05:11
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emanresu tnuocca posted:some young people who face the prospect of minimum wage servitude without the real chance to amass and meaningful capital on their own might not be super enthused about working in some boomer's restaurant. so what should they be doing instead?
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Mar 27, 2023 09:03
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:You sound exactly like the kind of person who wouldn’t take a job at McDonald’s if you got canned and that was all you could get because “it’s beneath me”, meanwhile in reality you’d quit after a 20 hour week of 4 hour dinner rush shifts. what the hell is even your stance on any of this? you assume someone is too entitled/privileged to work at mcdonalds while in the same post suggesting that anyone who doesn't feel like they should work should quit/protest/slack off/strike/etc so which is it? should people take a job, any job, if they need it - or should people refuse to work because they demand better conditions? you literally are making zero sense lol
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Mar 27, 2023 09:13
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ShoogaSlim posted:so what should they be doing instead? anything
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Mar 27, 2023 09:14
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Guess the world might as well get used to this one... conservatives are gonna run wild with that catchphrase... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqtbQbDJQvE
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Mar 27, 2023 16:11
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ShoogaSlim posted:so what should they be doing instead? You post like this in nearly every thread, but let’s go down the rabbit hole. Why not. There is nothing else they can do. They are trapped by a system purposely designed to prevent any sort of rebellion. They are so poor that a strike or attempting to move to a new job or attempting to push back at the company will immediately result in homelessness, hunger, etc. We’re here due to a number of factors, which includes too low minimum wage and a removal of social safety nets, among other things. This is only part of why there’s such a large movement around bare minimum, gently caress employer sentiment. Instead they should be paid fairly for their labor, and wealth should be properly disbursed among the populous. And before you go there, I am not explicitly advocating here for some weird right wing hate boner fueled nightmare of taking everyone’s money and giving it to poor people. ShoogaSlim posted:what the hell is even your stance on any of this? And here we go. You’re doing the exact same thing all the right wing grunts do when they try to argue a case on no merit other than parroting disgusting, demeaning, and dehumanizing GOP talking points. It’s a couple of things, but here specifically it’s “Claim the other side is arguing in bad faith, while arguing in bad faith,” arguing extreme ends of a point with no room for nuance or middle discussion (I forget the term here), and straight whataboutism. Just because I think a particular individual would not allow themselves to be subjected to the awfulness that is part-time minimum wage fast food service, does not mean I think that person should be subjected to it. It is, however, a reality that millions of people face in the US. This means it’s a realistic thing to use as an example of something a person would not accept for themselves, but willingly would subject others too, as this person clearly demonstrates by complaining people in that position should stop whining and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. My implication in making that point is that post had big “gently caress you, I got mine” boomer energy. To your last line, I did not make that point. I did not suggest people should just take any job to survive, and I do not believe in that as a core concept, but it’s irrelevant to this discussion. But should people refuse to work in order to demand better conditions? Absolutely, 100% yes, if they are physically able to. I illustrate why this is difficult above. And who should refuse to work does not only apply to minimum wage McDonald’s workers. It also applies to office workers making $150k a year while working 20 hours of OT per week. Or anyone who our awful labor laws fails to protect. In the US, we find ourselves in a system where nearly every employee is being abused, either by overwork, under pay, or other factors, which little recourse. This labor movement that is brewing is a long time coming, and if things don’t change it’s going to continue to grow. Ok, I’ve said my piece. I’ll leave the troll alone now.
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Mar 27, 2023 17:08
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:I am not explicitly advocating here for some weird right wing hate boner fueled nightmare of taking everyone’s money and giving it to poor people. I am
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Mar 27, 2023 21:46
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Mar 27, 2023 22:18
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I honestly don't think any one human being has the right to own anymore than, say, $100 million worth of money or property or whatever. And even that number's probably too high.
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Mar 27, 2023 22:19
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Oh, I absolutely do subscribe to the idea of taking all of the billionaires and giving everyone their money. But in the context of the argument it wasn’t relevant and didn’t wanna give some extra socialism boogey man ammo.
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Mar 27, 2023 22:27
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Let's just print more money and give it to everyone. WHY HAS NO ONE THOUGHT OF THIS!?
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Mar 28, 2023 00:18
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