(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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mawarannahr posted:moving this post here as it's a bit much for the cyber thread (context and previous excerpts here) mawarannahr posted:I do find all his books extremely enjoyable, fast reading but rewarding on rereading, but i don't necessarily see more than a blurry trace of a path forward. quote:Only an act of language can give us the ability Posting is.... praxis ? Anyway thanks for the share, not fully versed in Baudrillard and Deleuze, so will have to revisit some parts, but most of everything else's a cool and good quick read. two-time fee has issued a correction as of 17:55 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 22, 2023 17:37
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I read Assassination of Julius Caesar and imagined that Parenti was essentially talking about his view of Joseph Stalin
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Mar 23, 2023 00:57
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vyelkin posted:Can you expand on this at all? I'd be very curious to hear more specifically w/r/t the guy being a psycho, here are some posts from the current wiki arbitration case that was opened in response to the article quote:I would like to add to the public evidence information that I have been subject to a lenghty on- and off-wiki campaign of harassment that explicitly concerns the this topic area. The following is a quote from a statement by User:JEissfeldt (WMF) from meta:Trust and Safety, issued to me in a pdf format that I can send to any interested party. quote:In fact I would rather NOT talk about it. Even just thinking about it makes me very emotional, angry and even scared. But El_C’s comment is perfect illustration why it HAS TO be talked about. Icewhiz posted very very detailed information on my children. Including their names, school address, birthdays and even a nickname. A few days later accounts appeared on Wikipedia made under the names of my children (and other family members). These accounts began making edits to articles about rape. When that didn’t get my attention, they made the rape threats more explicitly. Of course, all this was oversighted and the accounts banned (hence no diffs for this section). But the evidence was forwarded to ArbCom and Trust and Safety. quote:MyMoloboaccount's last comment involve a claim that as a result of the harassment they have suffered a stroke and their health deteriorated [135], the desperate plea for their family to be left alone [136], repeated several times "STOP HARASSING ME. YOU RUINED MY LIFE.LEAVE ME AND MY FAMILY ALONE. DELETE MY ACCOUNT. LEAVE ME ALONE." [137] [138] [139] [140], more desperate requests to have their Wikipedia page deleted [141] with an edit summary " I PROMISE NEVER TO WRITE ANYTHING ON WIKIPEDIA AGAIN. I won't be writing anything again. I promise. Please leave me alone." and again and again something like half of the article is an uncritical recounting of this guy's arguments and grudges on one account or another. this doesn't make it bullshit, wikipedia is crawling with every possible type of right-wing nationalist, but it does make it kind of a mess
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Mar 23, 2023 20:18
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a little something from the baffler for y'all article heads. excerpt: Red Scared | Billie Anania thebaffler.com posted:“There is no way he is a victim of communism,” my partner quips, pointing to a photo of the late Pope John Paul II. We are near the end of our visit to the new Victims of Communism Museum, standing in an elevator-size lobby with photographs of “victims” screen-printed all over the walls. Among the many victims and honorees: Chinese artist Ai Weiwei, the Dalai Lama, Romanian writer Herta Müller, Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong, and Hungarian neofascist Viktor Orbán.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:14
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Phobos Anomaly posted:Tell me if I'm misunderstanding this. In very, very basic terms: Socialism = a form of society that involves a return to a communal way of life and organizing, eliminating the gross exploitation found in captialism Marxism = proving that socialism is achievable through a scientific analysis of history/economic, as opposed to 'utopian' ideas of socialism (read: wishful thinking) Communism = the goal of marxism, a stateless society achieved through the gradual eroding of the state over time. A communist state can maintain a modern standard of living thanks to the industrial mode of production but without the exploitation built into capitalism. I am probably wrong about the details but that's been my take so far.
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Mar 25, 2023 17:41
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Marxism: when the government subsidizes private health insurance companies Communism: when the government makes you buy private health insurance. Socialism: when the government makes a website
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Mar 25, 2023 18:03
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read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific for a breezy, easily-understandable, and profound examination of the similarities differences between socialism and communism. it's better than the Manifesto by a lot. a shorter summation will leave a lot out and a longer one is only necessary if you want to get into the very intricate theoretical and economic underpinnings of Marxism
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Mar 25, 2023 18:21
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indigi posted:read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific for a breezy, easily-understandable, and profound examination of the similarities differences between socialism and communism. it's better than the Manifesto by a lot. Yeah this. Then read Stalin on Dialectical and Historical Materialism.
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Mar 25, 2023 22:28
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If you're a communist, socialism is the transition between capitalism and communism. This means stuff like transitioning private ownership to the public, eroding parts of the state, etc. The end goal of all this is a stateless, classless society aka communism. Engel's principles of communism describes this much better. Marxism is really hard to describe since it encompasses so much e.g. economics, sociology, philosophy but i'd say kind of broadly it's a way of analyzing the world and society based on material conditions.
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Mar 25, 2023 22:39
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explaining marxism: okay first there was this guy named hegel and hey where are you going
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Mar 26, 2023 00:06
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Marxism is usually understood as the philosophical worldview grounded on historical materialism or the same as that. From Marxism, socialism and ultimately communism become evident as political-economic principles, so to speak, to be advanced by the working class as its historical great cause.
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Mar 26, 2023 00:47
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Raskolnikov38 posted:explaining marxism: okay first there was this guy who had 20 yards to linen to trade for a coat and hey where are you going
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Mar 26, 2023 01:37
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i think of the main difference between socialism and communism is that in the former, class struggle is still ongoing. revolution isn't just when two classes enter and one leaves, its only the transfer of power, and when the generational project of building communism begins
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Mar 26, 2023 02:08
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Raskolnikov38 posted:explaining marxism: okay first there was this guy named hegel and hey where are you going If you're talking to someone in English start with Smith and Ricardo
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Mar 26, 2023 03:33
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Atrocious Joe posted:If you're talking to someone in English start with Smith and Ricardo is that a new house dj/producer duo
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Mar 26, 2023 04:40
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You see, the music was created through labor and then it's value was increased through more labor and thus it was transformed into THESE PHAT BEATS
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Mar 26, 2023 15:49
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Imo Marxism is an attempt to study politics and economics using the scientific method with history as a data set.
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Mar 26, 2023 15:51
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marxism is when you honk your horn cane and chase screaming women around
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Mar 26, 2023 15:53
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I say swears online linked the complete Assassination of Julius Ceaser if you all dont mind audio books: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3896504&perpage=40&pagenumber=170#pti32
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Mar 26, 2023 19:39
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you don't need to bring up any philosophers to explain marxism to somebody you just talk to them about their job
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Mar 26, 2023 19:45
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atelier morgan posted:you don't need to bring up any philosophers to explain marxism to somebody you just talk to them about their job this works sometimes but ymmv greatly. "It is not enough to explain to the workers that they are politically oppressed (any more than it is to explain to them that their interests are antagonistic to the interests of the employers)" 
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Mar 26, 2023 19:51
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mawarannahr posted:this works sometimes but ymmv greatly. "It is not enough to explain to the workers that they are politically oppressed (any more than it is to explain to them that their interests are antagonistic to the interests of the employers)" necessary, but not sufficient
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Mar 26, 2023 20:05
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Exo- posted:Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm gonna put em on a little list and read it all up 3rd or 4thing inventing reality. Absolutely crack ping in novel format
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Mar 27, 2023 06:03
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HiroProtagonist posted:3rd or 4thing inventing reality. Absolutely crack ping in novel format the beautiful thing about it is it's so obvious once it's pointed out. self-reinforcing/reproducing social structures. i had a virtual book club on Capitalism & Disability by Marta Russell the other night and it actually came up between me and a goon friend who joins (who lives not far IRL). where and when do you see fault lines in the Invented Reality and how do you exploit them? IMO it's the same old story----you organize, educate, and agitate so that when those moments appear there's an answer to "what the hell do we do?" but the question in contention was "will those moments appear?" they didn't think materialism would ever win out over idealism because of the power of the propaganda. i'd argue physical reality is inescapable. the system and the brain can only withstand so much dissonance/contradiction/stress before something gives way and snowballs.
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Mar 27, 2023 13:29
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propaganda is a part of material reality, and it's extremely powerful in a lot of the western world. history provides us with innumerable examples demonstrating that if people don't understand why their lives are getting worse - or even if they do understand, but don't believe, or if they see an alternative path as easier/more comfortable - they'll blame whatever's convenient. idk if that moment will ever come in many places, at least not prior to environmental collapse, but I feel certain it won't be coming in 2020s America
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Mar 27, 2023 18:15
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philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to convince yourself nothing can change
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Mar 27, 2023 18:46
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indigi posted:propaganda is a part of material reality, and it's extremely powerful in a lot of the western world. history provides us with innumerable examples demonstrating that if people don't understand why their lives are getting worse - or even if they do understand, but don't believe, or if they see an alternative path as easier/more comfortable - they'll blame whatever's convenient. wife guys know
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Mar 27, 2023 19:01
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Centrist Committee posted:philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to convince yourself nothing can change the possibility of change doesn't necessitate the inevitability of a specific change. I think the aforementioned "moment" is possible in places, but not current/near-future USA
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Mar 27, 2023 19:39
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indigi posted:propaganda is a part of material reality, and it's extremely powerful in a lot of the western world. history provides us with innumerable examples demonstrating that if people don't understand why their lives are getting worse - or even if they do understand, but don't believe, or if they see an alternative path as easier/more comfortable - they'll blame whatever's convenient. not necessarily contradicting you but adding on - this guy makes the case that propaganda is indeed powerful but doesn't lead to auto brainwashing, people seek it out for themselves or passively accept stuff out of convenience for material reasons https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/ quote:In short, this essay will make the case that “brainwashing” as a political theory breaks society down into three mutually-exclusive camps: 1) a group of elite manipulators, 2) vast masses under their control, 3) a rebellious group of enlightened critics (to which the person launching the accusation of “brainwashing” implicitly always belongs, since they are neither unaware of it nor abetting it). An unstated premise of this political theory is that what determines which of these camps any individual belongs to is a mixture of intellectual enlightenment and moral purity. Unsurprisingly, this purely ideological tripartite division doesn’t map well to Marxist class analysis. In fact, it obscures it, with catastrophic consequences for political strategy. quote:They decide that people have been “brainwashed” beyond the point where they can be reached by words or rational appeal. They “realize” that the masters of propaganda have been far more successful than we first imagined: it turns out we’re not David fighting Goliath, we’re more like an ant facing an asteroid. quote:I am going to argue that this narrative is nonsense. It tries to pass off as universal and eternal something that in reality is particular and ephemeral. In short: Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. quote:The prevailing populist narrative grants the People (of the West) moral innocence by attributing to them utter stupidity and naivety; I invert the equation and demand a Marxist narrative instead: Westerners are willingly complicit in crimes because they instinctively and correctly understand that they benefit as a class (as a global bourgeois proletariat) from the exploitation enabled by their military and their propaganda (in Gramscian: organs of coercion and consent). [6] We’re not as stupid as we’re made out to be. This means that we can be reasoned with, that there is a way out. quote:I reject only the common misconception that propaganda “manufactures consent” (Chomsky) or “invents reality” (Parenti), because it exaggerates the feat accomplished by propagandists, and, in doing so, it obscures the real material basis that has historically made even the working poor in the imperial core complicit. etc.
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Mar 27, 2023 20:11
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does tuning into fox news because its racist and because it tells me im Good simply for being a White Working Class Male indicate that i am a person who can be reasoned with?
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Mar 27, 2023 20:51
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propaganda works as evidenced by the us victory over the vietcong and the hearts and minds won in the middle eastern wars
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Mar 27, 2023 20:53
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propaganda works mainly when you've trained multiple generations of children to understand and think about the world in very specific and limited ways
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Mar 27, 2023 20:55
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propaganda works on americans because they are educated with complete nonsense in the fields of history, politics, and economics broadly, mostly by mass media since these are either not taught or taught very badly by the ramshackle education apparatusindigi posted:propaganda works mainly when you've trained multiple generations of children to understand and think about the world in very specific and limited ways basically this
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Mar 27, 2023 20:57
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propaganda works as long as there is food on the shelves
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Mar 27, 2023 21:14
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It rules how the word propaganda is demonized while the entirety of our media apparatus blatantly engages in it 24/7 and everyone accepts it because they call it marketing instead.
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Mar 27, 2023 21:39
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mila kunis posted:not necessarily contradicting you but adding on - this guy makes the case that propaganda is indeed powerful but doesn't lead to auto brainwashing, people seek it out for themselves or passively accept stuff out of convenience for material reasons lol that's the gervais principle applied to society, which yeah, probably https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/  in rao's case he's arguing that it's based around the ability to interact with the actual power brokers of an organization (Sociopaths/Elites), are unaware of the power dynamics in play at all (Clueless/Masses), or are aware but unable to act on those dynamics for whatever reason though they want to/can try to (Losers/Rebels) he specifically cites the role of the Sociopath as creating a narrative people can buy into Tempora Mutantur has issued a correction as of 21:53 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 21:48
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indigi posted:propaganda is a part of material reality, and it's extremely powerful in a lot of the western world. history provides us with innumerable examples demonstrating that if people don't understand why their lives are getting worse - or even if they do understand, but don't believe, or if they see an alternative path as easier/more comfortable - they'll blame whatever's convenient. We’ve had these moments again and again (eg Occupy, George Floyd). That’s why my argument is “the moments will appear.” Centrist Committee posted:propaganda works as long as there is food on the shelves And my thought process is that’s what you’re building for. Vijay Prashad has a good speech where he specifically talks about this in the context of occupy. It’s like an hour long or more, super good.
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Mar 27, 2023 21:49
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Tempora Mutantur posted:lol that's the gervais principle applied to society, which yeah, probably it should be noted that (i'm pretty sure) the gervais principle guy is some kind of lesswrong freak
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Mar 27, 2023 22:09
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Sunny Side Up posted:Vijay Prashad owns
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Mar 27, 2023 22:19
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i'm breezing through Washington Bullets and it's like if someone rewrote Killing Hope as a longform poem
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Mar 27, 2023 22:21
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