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Martman posted:I feel like facehuggers could maybe work on things that don't have faces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_insemination
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Mar 26, 2023 13:14
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Splicer posted:Even the final script calls it a cargo hold my dude. I’m referring to the movie ‘Alien’, not a separate document. People referring to scripts and novelizations to ‘explain’ the films have made many errors in the past. In the movie Alien, the cave is referred to as a cave.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:18
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SMG's disingenuous gish-galloping to practice for debate class is getting real old. You gave up the game when you started saying "spiders" and "jokey," my guy.Alchenar posted:The Nostromo is a big container ship It's a tug, technically, and IIRC it detaches from the refinery (which is like six times larger than the Nostromo) to land on LV426. It is like 250m long though, so yeah you could call it "big," but if the schematics that made it into Isolation as a walkable map are to be believed, there isn't much going on in the actual crew space. Thanks for reminding me that this exists. *shudder* You make some really compelling points here about the extremely unlikely coincidence of the xenomorph's compatibility with not just mankind but our environment; it fits our 'biological chauvinism' (as Sagan would say) too perfectly. I still do agree with Xenomrph about the 'necessity' of the prequels, though - honestly, maybe they could have done it justice, but I also really don't like the David Did It route that they chose. Also, suppose I tend to have less faith in filmmakers' 'visions' than most, but I really don't think Ridley Scott is forward-thinking enough to have planned it out like this when he made Alien. Which takes me back again to the 'necessity' of Prometheus as part of the Alien universe: It's a cash grab.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I’m referring to the movie ‘Alien’, not a separate document. You should watch the movie, it's pretty good.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:48
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I got the impression that David (while of course extremely full of himself) was copying what he had learned from the mural/stuff in Prometheus and whatever was left on this planet and on the engineer ship they commandeered. It never occurred to me watching the movie that it was trying to say he personally invented the xenomorph.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:49
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Mister Speaker posted:SMG's disingenuous gish-galloping to practice for debate class is getting real old. You gave up the game when you started saying "spiders" and "jokey," my guy. One of the problems with discussing nerd-appropriated media is that there ends up being this whole newspeak about “Yautjas” and “Hammerpedes” and whatever. “Space Jockey” is not only a terrible name for the character; this stuff sows confusion (e.g. Cameron saying “what laid the eggs???”, when the pods in Alien are more plantlike and seem to have a kind of rudimentary nervous system). That stuff is taken from script drafts and notes on concept art, not the actual movies.
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Mar 26, 2023 14:58
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In the movie the guy referring to the cave as some sort of cave has no idea what he is looking at.
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Mar 26, 2023 15:07
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Alchenar posted:In the movie the guy referring to the cave as some sort of cave has no idea what he is looking at. We might as well start asking who the other two Nostromo crew are that we can clearly see on screen walking away from Parker and Brett but who are never named or interact with anyone else aboard.
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Mar 26, 2023 15:16
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Mister Speaker posted:Also, suppose I tend to have less faith in filmmakers' 'visions' than most, but I really don't think Ridley Scott is forward-thinking enough to have planned it out like this when he made Alien. Which takes me back again to the 'necessity' of Prometheus as part of the Alien universe: It's a cash grab. He didn’t plan it that way, and he acknowledges it in his introduction to the Prometheus art book. Neo Rasa posted:I got the impression that David (while of course extremely full of himself) was copying what he had learned from the mural/stuff in Prometheus and whatever was left on this planet and on the engineer ship they commandeered. It never occurred to me watching the movie that it was trying to say he personally invented the xenomorph. I think the movie itself gives ample wiggle-room for David to be wrong (even if he doesn’t know it) while still being thematically appropriate for his character as a gothic horror villain. A reminder that the same people who say “it’s a cave because a character says it is, even though it visually isn’t one” are also the same people who say “Dallas doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he says the Space Jockey is fossilized” when that’s used as evidence for the Derelict and its contents being very old. 
Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 15:21
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“nerd-appropriated media”
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Mar 26, 2023 16:05
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Alchenar posted:In the movie the guy referring to the cave as some sort of cave has no idea what he is looking at. I feel like a professional deep space mining team would know what a cave or an old rock/fossil is. Xenomrph posted:He didn’t plan it that way, and he acknowledges it in his introduction to the Prometheus art book. I tried looking this up and the bit of an interview where he talks about it is pretty interesting, I can get his reasoning honestly, but I agree the movie itself isn't explicit enough to make it final. I like the idea that David his own head created it since he's so obsessed with creation in general from the getgo in these movies but that he didn't like literally invent the formula or whatever and they've been around before.
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Mar 26, 2023 16:19
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Neo Rasa posted:I feel like a professional deep space mining team would know what a cave or an old rock/fossil is. They're not a mining team, they're tug operators. Their job is to move heavy cargo around space and deliver it without damaging the multi billion dollar asset. They have a science expert because they are high end tug operators in space but they are way, way out of their depth from the very beginning and that's part of the story.
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Mar 26, 2023 17:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I’m referring to the movie ‘Alien’, not a separate document. And, again, I must point out that your initial pile of bullshit relied on multiple provably false statements, every one of which has been shown to be incorrect, and you're now down to trying to argue semantics on third-order references as if this will somehow chain up to everything you said being correct. You are a child pouting that if broccoli is gross THERFORE you should get a pony.
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Mar 26, 2023 17:38
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The beating begins again, with a furious vigour, until SUPERMECHAGODZILLA can barely stand. He rests one hand against a dirty wall, sweat marring his 1993 Nebraska Film Festival hypercolor t-shirt. SUPERMECHAGODZILA The opposite reading is true… The opposite reading is true. I’ve been to college.
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Mar 26, 2023 17:43
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Xenomrph posted:A reminder that the same people who say “it’s a cave because a character says it is, even though it visually isn’t one” are also the same people who say “Dallas doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he says the Space Jockey is fossilized” when that’s used as evidence for the Derelict and its contents being very old.
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Mar 26, 2023 17:43
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Tapping the *don't engage with SMGposts* sign for the umpteenth time. Cmon guys, it's their MO. Just say cool and move on.
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Mar 26, 2023 17:47
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Splicer posted:Characters are infallible geniuses when they agree with SMG and incompetent buffoons when they do not. This is very straightforward film analysis I don't get why you're having so much trouble with it. Ohhhh THAT’s why it doesn’t make sense, silly me. Also check your PMs
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Mar 26, 2023 18:01
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Alchenar posted:They're not a mining team, [...] they are way, way out of their depth lol
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Mar 26, 2023 18:03
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TBF if the Alien novelization stating the egg room was on the ship is considered canon, then human-to-egg morphing would have to be as well. For the record, in the film I think the egg room is on the ship.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:07
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Space Jam posted:TBF if the Alien novelization stating the egg room was on the ship is considered canon, then human-to-egg morphing would have to be as well. For the record, in the film I think the egg room is on the ship. In the expanded universe, it is - it’s just another form of reproduction. Egg-morphing and Queens aren’t mutually exclusive.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:14
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Xenomrph posted:In the expanded universe, it is - it’s just another form of reproduction. Egg-morphing and Queens aren’t mutually exclusive. Ah, neat. I didn’t know that.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:15
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Xenomrph posted:We’ve been over this before (repeatedly, naturally) but it’s because the xenomorph is cool and good, and I like seeing it and want to see more of it. “Hey, look, we know you love your old dog very much, but we’re going to take your dog away… but look at these other different dogs! You like dogs, right??” In AvP2, xenomorphs reproduce without using eggs or facehuggers. They actually do something even more gruesome! Mister Speaker posted:You make some really compelling points here about the extremely unlikely coincidence of the xenomorph's compatibility with not just mankind but our environment; it fits our 'biological chauvinism' (as Sagan would say) too perfectly. I still do agree with Xenomrph about the 'necessity' of the prequels, though - honestly, maybe they could have done it justice, but I also really don't like the David Did It route that they chose. We could ask ourselves, say, how could xenomorphs prey on a world of cockroaches? And that's not impossible to answer in a way that's aesthetically and thematically satisfying. Maybe entire masses of cockroaches get scooped up and melted together in a special kind of acid/jelly that causes them to accrete into a xenomorph. Just because eggs and facehuggers don't cut it doesn't mean the xenomorphs can't. Eggs and facehuggers are clearly an adaptation for parasitizing creatures with faces, such as the space jockey. If the xenomorph actually is some kind of cosmic evolutionary pinnacle, the logical endpoint of all development such that we could rightly fear to encounter it anywhere, then it's not going to be limited to a particular predictable and extremely interruptible lifecycle. Edit: Or, even granting that the lifecycle itself is somehow teleologically necessary, it won't necessarily have attained that lifecycle at the same time in every separate thread of parallel evolution! Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 18:34
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Space Jam posted:TBF if the Alien novelization stating the egg room was on the ship is considered canon, then human-to-egg morphing would have to be as well. For the record, in the film I think the egg room is on the ship. If a later film had said 'actually it's a chamber beneath the ship that was part of a structure the ship had landed on' I wouldn't scowl and say that's inconsistent with what I saw in Alien, but I agree I think it's a chamber on the ship. The chestbursted pilot and the acid hole through the deck is direct foreboding of what's going to happen.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:41
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Xenomrph posted:In the expanded universe, it is - it’s just another form of reproduction. Egg-morphing and Queens aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m not sure which one would be worse: a chestburster, or something akin to SCP 439 (the Bone Hive) that turns you into their queen-factory.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:44
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Let's see some pictures of this cave/cargo hold. I'm gunna need some ancient aliens level of evidence analysis
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Mar 26, 2023 18:47
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MacheteZombie posted:Let's see some pictures of this cave/cargo hold. I'm gunna need some ancient aliens level of evidence analysis 
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Mar 26, 2023 18:54
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The derelict isn't seen completely but there's bits that could serve as a cargo hold of some kind
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Mar 26, 2023 19:46
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It does look flat to the ground (though I don't remember if that's an artifact of how the camera is rolled there and the astronauts are actually treating it as though climbing a hill) so it may well be an underground complex that the derelict landed/crashed onto.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:55
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Big enough for a 1970s The Who concert in there!
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Mar 26, 2023 20:41
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Someone several pages ago was asking about reprints of the original Aliens comic series that had Hicks and Newt, looks like there's a new reprint that just came out that has fewer stories in it (it's just got the core "original trilogy" and some ancillary stories from Dark Horse Presents) but is substantially cheaper than the Omnibus edition.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:22
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Mister Speaker posted:Hmm, yes, this framework is an interesting one. I'm not sure how the thread didn't end with this post. Nailed it.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:41
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Because prometheus is cool and great
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Mar 26, 2023 22:09
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Okay thinking about it yeah I'd switch Aliens and Prometheus on that list.
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Mar 26, 2023 22:21
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feedmyleg posted:I'm not sure how the thread didn't end with this post. Nailed it. It did end. Now we’re on the express elevator to hell (see above posts)
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Mar 26, 2023 22:22
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Mister Speaker posted:
...do you think the only alternative to 'have planned it out' is 'cash grab?' it can't just be, 'had more ideas later?'
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Mar 26, 2023 22:24
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FilthyImp posted:Tapping the *don't engage with SMGposts* sign for the umpteenth time. doingitwrong posted:The beating begins again, with a furious vigour, until SUPERMECHAGODZILLA can barely stand. He rests one hand against a dirty wall, sweat marring his 1993 Nebraska Film Festival hypercolor t-shirt. FastestGunAlive posted:It did end. Now we’re on the express elevator to hell (see above posts) the unblemished sanctity of the cinema discusso alien megathread must be preserved!
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Mar 26, 2023 22:34
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feedmyleg posted:Okay thinking about it yeah I'd switch Aliens and Prometheus on that list. Switch them? Aliens is Cool AND Good.
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Mar 26, 2023 22:34
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Aliens is only better than 2 alien movies tho
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Mar 26, 2023 22:36
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Aliens is just the Alien version of At the end of the day, though, I love horror and I'm a bit bored by action. Aliens never clicked.
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Mar 26, 2023 22:37
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Every alien movie is good
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Mar 26, 2023 22:38
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