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Eiba posted:(no "communist revolution" should be retaining monarch) I immediately reloaded once the Communist Party of Russia ended up in the defense side of Alexander Romanov, after what could be described as a series of extremely wacky hijinks
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Mar 27, 2023 14:42
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I know that I'm not the first person to make this observation, but the Corn Laws journal entry is really powerful. Don't sleep on that one like I have been. It typically puts a market liberal in charge of the landowners within a year or two of the journal entry activating, at which point you can complete the entry by revoking the export focus, losing a bunch of radicalism/gaining a bunch of loyalists in the process. Market Liberal Landowners will support abolishing serfdom and I think switching to interventionist, even though it says they're only neutral on that? At least, they won't stop you from getting off of traditionalism. You can get a lot of approval from them which then lets you ban slavery with little issue in countries that have it. As EIC, bolster the intelligentsia at the start of the game, convert your construction to iron-frame buildings, and build up your construction to ~80 - 100 points. Build a bunch of iron and tools to stabilize those goods while researching atmospheric engine, then build like 10 - 15 universities. After this, do the corn laws, get your market liberal landowner, and then quickly abolish serfdom using the landowners. Hopefully they're up to over +15 approval. If not, you can try to find something else that will make them happy and try to pass that quickly too. Passing laws with a 60 - 70% clout landowners backing is very fast. Once you get really high approval, try to ban slavery with your boosted intelligentsia. You should hopefully have enough approval buffer to pass the ban before the landowners' bonuses wear off and they drop to -10. If they do drop to -10, then they'll immediately start a revolution with like 400 points of radicalism, so uh, try to avoid that. I had this whole process done in five years as the EIC. When their approval got dangerously close to -10 after the ban, I just passed free trade to shut them up. Now they're fully chill for me, 18 years in. Super easy mutiny aversion. This is helpful for most other countries too. The early game gets a lot easier when the landowners will actively help you abolish serfdom and be super happy about it.
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Mar 27, 2023 15:01
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This is helpful for most other countries too. The early game gets a lot easier when the landowners will actively help you abolish serfdom and be super happy about it. Yeah but weaseling your way out of the poo poo laws is fun, being able to make the main blocker suddenly happy to help you do it takes away from the fun. I only just abolished slavery in 1890 as Persia because god drat did the aristos not want to give up on that one Also the king died and his heir is a traditionalist so I guess it's going to be guillotining time soon 
RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 15:27
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I know that I'm not the first person to make this observation, but the Corn Laws journal entry is really powerful. Don't sleep on that one like I have been. It typically puts a market liberal in charge of the landowners within a year or two of the journal entry activating, at which point you can complete the entry by revoking the export focus, losing a bunch of radicalism/gaining a bunch of loyalists in the process. Market Liberal Landowners will support abolishing serfdom and I think switching to interventionist, even though it says they're only neutral on that? At least, they won't stop you from getting off of traditionalism. You can get a lot of approval from them which then lets you ban slavery with little issue in countries that have it. As EIC, bolster the intelligentsia at the start of the game, convert your construction to iron-frame buildings, and build up your construction to ~80 - 100 points. Build a bunch of iron and tools to stabilize those goods while researching atmospheric engine, then build like 10 - 15 universities. After this, do the corn laws, get your market liberal landowner, and then quickly abolish serfdom using the landowners. Hopefully they're up to over +15 approval. If not, you can try to find something else that will make them happy and try to pass that quickly too. Passing laws with a 60 - 70% clout landowners backing is very fast. Once you get really high approval, try to ban slavery with your boosted intelligentsia. You should hopefully have enough approval buffer to pass the ban before the landowners' bonuses wear off and they drop to -10. If they do drop to -10, then they'll immediately start a revolution with like 400 points of radicalism, so uh, try to avoid that. I had this whole process done in five years as the EIC. When their approval got dangerously close to -10 after the ban, I just passed free trade to shut them up. Now they're fully chill for me, 18 years in. Super easy mutiny aversion. Corn Laws almost feels like cheese, which is almost completely necessary for EIC runs to avoid mutiny. I'm sure there's a way to finish that without getting a Market Liberal but I'm not 5000IQ enough to find it. I generally don't use it for Russia runs though, makes things too easy for me. As for banning Slavery, I actually find it's easier to endure the revolution, as the UK generally takes my side over the local lords, and the English Space Marines almost always make short work of the rebels.
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Mar 27, 2023 15:36
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It does feel kind of cheesy, but I mean, it's still part of paradox's design to just give you a market liberal on a silver platter like that. I totally get not wanting do that due to how much it trivializes that part of the game though. Also I just double checked, and yeah, the landowners will totally throw their clout behind interventionism and get +5 for it. They'll be so happy about you taking their power away from them that you can just continue doing poo poo like taking away hereditary bureaucrats, peasant armies, and local police forces with no risk of revolution. And if they do start getting feisty, just give them free trade to make them happy again. (which you'll want to switch back out of eventually because gently caress free trade)
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Mar 27, 2023 16:05
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I find that slavery and serfdom are best removed early when you still have a bunch of +landowner approval laws. If their default approval is at like +8 it's really easy to peel back slavery/serfdom or get an approval bonus through an event that gives you a window for kt
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Mar 27, 2023 16:07
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In case anyone else doesn't know how to get the Corn Laws event:quote:Requirement: ^ Be in that situation and wait for the event to pop up. I'll have to give it a go next game. Gort fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 16:09
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:which you'll want to switch back out of eventually because gently caress free trade Why? As a GP or EIC, Free Trade is great! Especially as a technologically backward but big power, importing engines is a great thing until you can get your domestic industry up and running, and I generally don't get much in the way of tariff money. As a Major or Minor however, yes Protectionism all the way.
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Mar 27, 2023 16:09
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Gort posted:In case anyone else doesn't know how to get the Corn Laws event: Wait, how can you do that if you're Isolationist?
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Mar 27, 2023 16:29
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It's strange that it's listed as one of the potential options, but I don't believe you can. You can't set any sort of trade policy for goods as an isolationist, so no market liberal shogunate leader for you, unfortunately.TwoQuestions posted:Why? As a GP or EIC, Free Trade is great! Especially as a technologically backward but big power, importing engines is a great thing until you can get your domestic industry up and running, and I generally don't get much in the way of tariff money. I just get angry whenever a bunch of countries start buying up all of my limited natural resources. Coal, iron, lead, sulfur, and both woods all get permanent export tariffs from me. That poo poo's mine, and I will be using all of it. late edit: i also have little faith in the world market's ability to fill holes in my economy. it's never manufactured goods that i'm short on, and even with all the patches, the AI still isn't great at maximizing resource extraction. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 16:34
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megane posted:Wait, how can you do that if you're Isolationist? You can't, that's what makes Japan also very very hard to dig yourself out from Landowners preferring foreign subjugation to reform. Even someone else warring your market open just gives you Free Trade, which also keeps you from setting tariffs and kicking off the event. Maybe after the wargoal wears off you can go to Interventionism and finally make Japan not a backwards pushover?
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Mar 27, 2023 17:01
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Due to the landowners blocking tax reform for a decade, I discovered that proportional taxation has a lot of support if you're still on land tax. Just rush Egalitarianism and you'll have a pretty easy time getting to the best mid-game tax law in the 1840s. Thanks a lot, dumbasses.
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Mar 27, 2023 17:01
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I'm playing as Scandinavia and have a lot of colonies in Africa. I noticed that amount of radicals in some African states was steadily rising over 10 years despite me investing a lot into them. Then I noticed that some buildings paid pretty much nothing to laborers. For example a steel mill in Scandinavia might pay 4 for laborers, but in Africa they pay something like 0.25, and all the laborers are starving. This isn't the case for all buildings, for example all plantations and mines seem to pay reasonable wages, as well as tool workshops and railways. But all the steel mills in Africa let their laborers starve. I'm running colonial exploitation and no +minimum wage policies. Can someone explain this to me?
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Mar 27, 2023 19:24
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Finnish Flasher posted:I'm playing as Scandinavia and have a lot of colonies in Africa. I noticed that amount of radicals in some African states was steadily rising over 10 years despite me investing a lot into them. Then I noticed that some buildings paid pretty much nothing to laborers. I wish it was easier to figure out why radicals are going up or down when you hover over the tooltip. Like explain why, don't make me hunt through the population screen and even then have to mostly make guesses. Tell me radicals and unrest are increasing because of low wages, then explain that wages are low because of discrimination. Ok, I need better citizenship laws to solve the situation. The game does throw a lot of very vague problem-reports at the player without any guidance on why the problem exists let alone how to possibly fix them.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:27
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It's probably a 1-2-3 combo of colonial exploitation depressing colonial wages, discrimination against the locals causing another negative modifier to wages, and the steel mills being on a low tech PM or otherwise in a situation where they can get away with paying nothing to unskilled POP types. As long as the capitalists who own the mills are making profits and there's labor available willing to work for 25 pence a week then there's no reason for them to raise wages, their job is to maximize profit as hard as possible. It's your job to fund the cops/troops/secret police that keep the uppity proles in line. Social responsibility in the colonies is not exactly a high priority, they're SUPPOSED to be running on dirt cheap labor to generate obscene profits for the people in society your government actually considers people.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:39
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I have banned racism though so that shouldn't affect it. Maybe I'll reload to an earlier point and see what caused this. Its funny that its pretty much only steel mills.
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Mar 27, 2023 20:00
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Finnish Flasher posted:I have banned racism though so that shouldn't affect it. Maybe I'll reload to an earlier point and see what caused this. Its funny that its pretty much only steel mills. I'm getting this quote from the wiki which should explain how it's supposed to work: "Buildings raise their base wage primarily to attract employees when it cannot otherwise fill empty positions. Very profitable buildings may also raise wages if the employees are below the expected standard of living as long as they are accepted; conversely, unprofitable and moderately profitable buildings decrease wages to restore profitability." If you're sure they're not discriminated, that makes the really low wages kind of odd. You're sure you have multiculturalism and religious freedoms? Other potential issues: unincorporated states have a lower expected standard of living and a lower starting wage for workers- even before colonial exploitation which will make the starting wages worse. All of this might mean the factory owners can get away with a lower wage than your incorporated provinces. And honestly, it would make some sense that setting up a factory in an unincorporated colony results in absurd levels of exploitation.
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Mar 27, 2023 20:28
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Yeah unincorporated states aren't affected by your institutions and get lower pay. This is before the effects of colonial exploitation, which makes it worse (or better depending on your perspective)
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Mar 27, 2023 20:43
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Eiba posted:I believe, but am not 100% sure, that unincorporated states play by different rules when it comes to setting wages. Something in 1.2 changed the willingness of factory owners to raise wages if they were too far below the expected standard of living. I would not be surprised if this just doesn't apply for unincorporated states and they're really just going to pay the least they can to make the most profits for themselves. I have multiculturalism and freedom of conscience. I started a new game for fun to try and optimize better, I'll see what happens this time.
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Mar 27, 2023 20:55
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Finnish Flasher posted:I have multiculturalism and freedom of conscience. I started a new game for fun to try and optimize better, I'll see what happens this time. Freedom of conscience means similar religions aren't discriminated, so a Catholic country won't discriminate against Protestants but still will against completely different like Animism and I think Islam as well, so that'll be discriminating against your African pops.
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Mar 27, 2023 21:16
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I just lost a war vs Russia in spite of winning about 70% of the battles and having none of my territory occupied  Also we would have totally crushed them but a clown car of terrible fronts in central asia meant that hundreds of regiments of Chinese soldiers were held up fighting vs. tiny number of Russians for the entire duration of the war My guess is that Qing lost a lot of men and then got a tiny part of one province occupied which then instantly made them capitulate, and because Russia didn't have any war goals on me the war just ended, even though I started the war in the first place. That seems really wrong, the initiating party in a war should never get forced out of their own war.
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Mar 27, 2023 21:24
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Crazycryodude posted:As long as the capitalists who own the mills are making profits and there's labor available willing to work for 25 pence a week then there's no reason for them to raise wages, their job is to maximize profit as hard as possible. It's your job to fund the cops/troops/secret police that keep the uppity proles in line On that note, class warfare is definitely anemic in relation to internal dynamics. It feels to me that agitation would be a great mechanic in terms of making the game livelier. Slammed down the construction sector button and got a few pages of building queue? Well chief, the guys on the yard think that some revisions are due. Transportation and rail are in high demand? Watch railroad workers tank your internal infrastructure in a strike. And dear God help you if longshoremen get pissed, etc I do not know if the interest group bonuses/penalties are meant to emulate that. While they are certainly impactful, they lack a degree of... Friction? Outside of propagandists when I'm playing a sparsely populated country and solidarity, I often forget what effects are going on at any given time. Instead, thinking in terms of the player as the hegelian spirit of the nation, having maybe some sort of building activity might work? For a dumb example, maybe the player could spam trade union halls (or churches or salons or w/e) which serve as a straightforward effect towards a desired outcome, with the adequate collateral effect of pissing off other interest groups. Essentially, more avenues to allow the player to go towards the direction they want while offering different points of resistance on that path, instead of hoping for a leader to be of certain ideology (for example), etc
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Mar 27, 2023 21:27
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RabidWeasel posted:I just lost a war vs Russia in spite of winning about 70% of the battles and having none of my territory occupied It makes some sense, because otherwise you could never force someone out of a war if you had no war goal against them and couldn't invade them. Still it's pretty unintuitive. You can work around it by declaring directly on the party who you really want to get something from because they'll be the one asking for reparations and therefore won't be able to end the war without occupying at least some of your territory. dead gay comedy forums posted:On that note, class warfare is definitely anemic in relation to internal dynamics. It feels to me that agitation would be a great mechanic in terms of making the game livelier. Slammed down the construction sector button and got a few pages of building queue? Well chief, the guys on the yard think that some revisions are due. Transportation and rail are in high demand? Watch railroad workers tank your internal infrastructure in a strike. And dear God help you if longshoremen get pissed, etc
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Mar 27, 2023 21:39
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Eiba posted:Yeah, that was something I was just complaining about. I think it's the fact that they don't have any war goals on you. If you had declared war directly on Russia they would at the very least have reparations as a war goal, but since you declared on someone else when you peaced them out Russia had no goal, and therefore your warscore could tick below zero for casualties and such. No, I declared war on Russia directly, demanding recognition. I don't think that they had war reparations as a war goal, I should check the save though.
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Mar 27, 2023 21:57
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So, when playing a country like Russia, do you guys get to turn the territories into states ASAP or do you wait for something (like filling available land for example)? I am trying to figure quicker/better ways to get to socialism, and feels that if I can do it with Russia, I can do it almost anywhere (also only realized recently that promote social advance acts as a literacy focus too lmao)
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Mar 27, 2023 22:43
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I kinda wish the interest group buffs/debuffs scaled with opinion rather than being on/off switches. It'd cut down on notification spam and allow them to be more impactful on the extreme end of things.
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Mar 27, 2023 23:20
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RabidWeasel posted:No, I declared war on Russia directly, demanding recognition. I don't think that they had war reparations as a war goal, I should check the save though.
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Mar 28, 2023 00:24
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Can anyone explain why I should or shouldn't incorporate states? Like what are the pros and cons, and what situations is it a net good to incorporate or why would I want to leave them colonial? I usually try to incorporate everything, even random african rubber colonies, because I want everyone to be happy and have the same rights and quality of life. But I don't really know what I'm doing.
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Mar 28, 2023 05:14
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Baronjutter posted:Can anyone explain why I should or shouldn't incorporate states? Like what are the pros and cons, and what situations is it a net good to incorporate or why would I want to leave them colonial? I usually try to incorporate everything, even random african rubber colonies, because I want everyone to be happy and have the same rights and quality of life. But I don't really know what I'm doing. Incorporated states have your institutions apply to them, which means you need more bureaucracy per institution level. They also have a higher minimum wage then unincorporated states. Unincorporated states, meanwhile, have whatever benefits your colonialism law has. For your goals, you want to incorporate states so your workers in those states have those workers rights and education access and the like.
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Mar 28, 2023 05:38
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You also only get taxes from incorporated states. I forgot to incorporate a bunch of states as germany once and my income went up massively once I did.
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Mar 28, 2023 05:40
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bureaucracy expensive, giving rights to your colonies could buy more guns and boots
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Mar 28, 2023 05:57
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You also only get taxes from incorporated states. I forgot to incorporate a bunch of states as germany once and my income went up massively once I did. I cannot believe I forgot the most important part.
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Mar 28, 2023 07:14
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Are there any parts of the map which can produce most / all resources required for full industrial processes? Obviously there is always going to be one resource which is a limiting factor, but what I mean is, if you wanted to be able to build up every industry as soon as you get the tech, where would be best? From the top of my head the difficult resources are dye, oil, rubber, sulphur, opium and silk, with lead, coal, iron and wood being more common but something you will eventually need a lot of. From what I can see SEA is generally very resource rich, with most of the above being available in indochina and/or indonesia, although the amount of oil is relatively restricted compared to the very oil rich regions. The greater Iran region has access to basically everything except rubber, but is quite limited in wood production. North India is probably also another good candidate, but also lacks rubber, and doesn't have much oil either. The north Andes and Brazil have access to everything except dye and silk, which only really exist between the Middle East and China, and there's also a lot of gold in the region which is a nice bonus. So I guess one of these regions would be best? RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 12:24
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Pretty much any start anywhere will require either trade or conquest to get what you need. The closest to the complete package that exists is probably India. I think the Indian Subcontinent has pretty much everything in some quantity, though it's pretty light on mineable resources, and the only source of rubber is Sri Lanka. edit: no oil, either This imgur gallery is good for giving you the state-by-state quantites of each resource: https://imgur.com/gallery/V0gSFH3 Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 12:49
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That link has the old oil map, they added a ton more oil resources in 1.1. Most of them are small in size, but they do add up.
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Mar 28, 2023 13:23
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I still feel like wood is far too limited. I'm not historical wood industry/trade expert but just from a gameplay perspective it always just seems far too limited compared to most other things.
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Mar 28, 2023 13:30
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I still feel like wood is far too limited. I'm not historical wood industry/trade expert but just from a gameplay perspective it always just seems far too limited compared to most other things. Sounds kinda realistic from some quick googling: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12665-016-6195-z forest coverage in a region of Poland in 1830, 1930 and 2006 :  I've looked for similar figures in the USA and it seems like the lumber industry exploded between 1830 and 1930, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_lumber_industry_in_the_United_States#Nineteenth_century We definitely did a lot of wood chopping IRL during the game timeframe.
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Mar 28, 2023 13:46
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Basically the wood industry in the 19th century: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE Free
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Mar 28, 2023 13:57
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The shortage of wood makes sense but there should really be a system where certain areas start as "exhausted" and there's a forestry tech which lets you make tree farms on exhausted forest land or something.
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Mar 28, 2023 14:18
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Heinrich Cotta who is considered to be one of the fathers of modern, sustainable forestry (at least here in Switzerland/Germany) die during the early period of Victoria 3. I think a lot of his theories/how to's are from the late 18th century. It would make perfect sense to have a PM for sustainability, at the cost of output. Players could choose to rob nature of everything and have a wood shortage mid/late game as forests deplete or have lower output guaranteed the entire game. The sustainabiltiy factor not being present for any of the agriculture/resource buildings is kinda weak. From what I remember certain industries also had some kind of partial/mini recycling in their production processes to save money (Glass being one of the earliest?).
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Mar 28, 2023 15:52
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