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Leon Sumbitches
Mar 27, 2010

Dr. Leon Adoso Sumbitches (prounounced soom-'beh-cheh) (born January 21, 1935) is heir to the legendary Adoso family oil fortune.





Leon Sumbitches posted:

Got a cold message on LinkedIn from a guy at a major firm. Apparently he heard my name from a former colleague who suggested me for a role they have open.

I have a call with him and the principal tomorrow, I'll have some works to show them from my portfolio, but other than that have no experience with this type of conversation.

Any suggestions for how to approach it?

Had the conversation and it's kismet, I have a high degree of confidence they will offer me a job that will double my salary and let me lead cool environmental justice work.

The old adage "it's not what you know it's who you know" certainly worked for me this time, as an old colleague recommended me. Life is funny.

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Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Leon Sumbitches posted:

Had the conversation and it's kismet, I have a high degree of confidence they will offer me a job that will double my salary and let me lead cool environmental justice work.

The old adage "it's not what you know it's who you know" certainly worked for me this time, as an old colleague recommended me. Life is funny.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. How does one get into high-paying environmental justice work? That sounds like an intersection of opposites.

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
I hate STAR interviews

blackmet
Aug 5, 2006

I believe there is a universal Truth to the process of doing things right (Not that I have any idea what that actually means).

Salami Surgeon posted:

I hate STAR interviews

I do too.

I did have success in my last one, using a story worksheet I found via (yes, the name makes me gag too) Self Made Millennial on YouTube when I was looking for advice on how to handle unexpected interview questions.

Basically, list two stories in each of the following 4 categories:

1) Time you saved the day/solved a big problem
2) Time you worked with difficult person and how you handled it.
3) Time you messed up or failed
4) Time you are proud of, achieved something great..

Then you basically choose the best one for the questions they actually ask you.

I filled it out pre-interview and glanced at it every once in a while to answer their questions (Teams interview, so I could keep it invisible). It turned out pretty much everything they threw at me could be handled by knowing how I would respond to those 4 questions.

BBQ Dave
Jun 17, 2012

Well, that's easy for you to say. You have a bad imagination. It's stupid. I live in a fantasy world.

So I'm going after an executive director position at a small (300 people) retirement community.

I've been in dining for 20 years but I got my MBA and have been trying to break out. The position before the last one on the page was cook, which was six years ago, so I just put in my last three jobs, all of which were at retirement communities.





- I don't have the admin license they prefer but it only takes a week
- I'm currently unemployed, the client eliminated my position due to budget constraints after 7 months. I basically fixed everything but the client wanted the same quality food as before the pandemic with the same budget. Things aren't going well there now.
- It happens to be a ten-minute walk from my house, but I've been looking for this sort of position for years, and this could be my final position.
- A former subordinate of mine works there as a dining manager, and I'm on good terms with him. We worked at the most prestigious retirement place in the valley.


Any advice is appreciated!

Leon Sumbitches
Mar 27, 2010

Dr. Leon Adoso Sumbitches (prounounced soom-'beh-cheh) (born January 21, 1935) is heir to the legendary Adoso family oil fortune.





Unsinkabear posted:

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. How does one get into high-paying environmental justice work? That sounds like an intersection of opposites.

I studied a licensed profession that I knew, if we ever started to take climate seriously, the profession would have a role to play in any climate response including EJ. I'm the USA, the IRA funded a ton of infrastructure and, separately, a ton of EJ work.

My read is this massive global firm, who has clearly been a huge historic contributor to the problem, sees the writing on the wall. They are afraid of losing their social license to operate unless they make big public moves, and so are lining up to build out the infrastructure paid for by the IRA. As part of the global PR strategy, the studio I'm joining has been given permission to support and engage local EJ efforts, so they're bringing me on because I have a public record of my efforts and commitments to EJ and environmental restoration work. We'll see. I'm appropriately skeptical, but these are known people in the profession with good reputations, so I don't believe it's a total lie.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Eric the Mauve posted:

As a hiring manager I always keep my postings live until I have an actual acceptance of an offer.


Same except started work for some roles. Our phone interview to offer timeline is about 5 biz days, so keeping a job open for 2 weeks is only an extra few hundy on ad spend. Nothing compared to schedule risk of starting over.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Interviewing for an IT role with an organic grocery store chain on Monday. First in-person interview I've had since before the pandemic. They said they're very very casual, so to just wear whatever I feel most comfortable in. I don't think it's a trap, so I'm planning on wearing a nice flannel and jeans. If that somehow backfires, oh well.

Though I am changing careers, going from having worked in editorial/govt. adjacent work for the last 13 years to IT. So I'm a little anxious how the technical portion of the interview will go. It's very entry level, so I'm guessing just lean on my soft skills and hope that my recent CompTIA certs that helped me get past the phone screen are enough. I had one interview last month where it seemed to go well, but I never heard back, and the two technical questions I got were pretty basic (What's the difference between 2ghz and 5ghz wifi? What would you use a static IP for?). So I have no idea if I said anything wrong in that interview, or if it was just a case of them finding someone who was a better fit.

Eric the Mauve posted:

As a hiring manager I always keep my postings live until I have an actual acceptance of an offer. You just never know and can't afford to be caught flatfooted. As a candidate it is nothing to be worried about at all.

This is helpful. I guess in the same realm, if there's a job I applied to a few months back that is relisted/reposted like that, is it worth applying to it again even if I heard nothing? Sometimes I just get the vibe from how it's worded that it's either a continuous posting, or the first pile of resumes didn't pan out for whatever reason.

Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Mar 25, 2023

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Wear slacks and a decent collared shirt, no tie.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012
oh boy another Alva Labs assessment. I almost missed the personality tests over the weird logic blob tests

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

teen witch posted:

oh boy another Alva Labs assessment. I almost missed the personality tests over the weird logic blob tests
Having just googled those I'm going to simply decline to work for people who see value in those tests.

:smithicide:

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Arquinsiel posted:

Having just googled those I'm going to simply decline to work for people who see value in those tests.

:smithicide:

Wish I had that option

Like I’m glad it saves the results but I still see no goddamn usages in them

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


teen witch posted:

oh boy another Alva Labs assessment. I almost missed the personality tests over the weird logic blob tests

:chloe:

At those tests, not you.

Had my interview. It seemingly went well. The IT Director started talking about how she wanted to do networking stuff in-house eventually, since it's currently contracted out. She brought this up after I had mentioned that I enjoy tooling around with networking gear and I'm likely going to go get my CCNA after not getting it years ago. So between that and her accidentally swearing and then apologizing profusely, I'll take it as a sign it went well. :haw:

Won't hear either way for two weeks or so. So I'm gonna fire off some thank you emails and then memory hole the position. If I get an offer, awesome, if not, on to the next one.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

teen witch posted:

Wish I had that option

Like I’m glad it saves the results but I still see no goddamn usages in them
Looking at the metrics they are using it seems to be trying to check if you are an AI art generator that can spot obtuse and irrelevant patterns.

Friend
Aug 3, 2008

I hate when the dipshit Sales Guy is in charge of the initial interview. I have 8 years of ecommerce experience with four different companies, and after explaining what I did at each company, the interviewer asked "did you work in vendor central or seller central?" Which is apparently Amazon's portal. Dude, one of my jobs may as well have been BestBuy.com, do you think they have an Amazon account?

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Red posted:

I'm working on it.

I just had interview #3 (of 4) for a new role with a great company, and it went extremely well - ran 40 minutes over, and ended with the lead interviewer noting she took her job as a leap of faith (she was unsure if it was the 'perfect' fit for her), and asked what about this role excited me or gave me hesitancy.

I studied for this one, printed my resume, notes and questions, and the job posting, and asked some follow-up questions from the previous round as well as new questions.

The final round is with HR, but I would guess that's more of a negotiation stage.

I got a "more details by the end of the week" call, explaining things are hung up because people are on Spring Break, so I guess that's a good sign.

And final round with HR is more of a 'culture' interview.

Edit: I am totally writing down answers to all of these: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/last-hurdle-how-interview-hr-james-manders/

Red fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Mar 27, 2023

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Red posted:

I got a "more details by the end of the week" call, explaining things are hung up because people are on Spring Break, so I guess that's a good sign.

And final round with HR is more of a 'culture' interview.

Edit: I am totally writing down answers to all of these: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/last-hurdle-how-interview-hr-james-manders/
Don’t get interview tips from HR people. Anyone who tells you to tell interviewers your current or previous salary should be dismissed entirely.

This advice column is a list of poo poo that makes his life easier and not necessarily what’s in the candidate’a best interests.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Dik Hz posted:

Don’t get interview tips from HR people. Anyone who tells you to tell interviewers your current or previous salary should be dismissed entirely.

Question - when asked, how do you respond?

Friend
Aug 3, 2008

teen witch posted:

Question - when asked, how do you respond?

Negotiation thread has helped me so many times, but the short version is to answer every salary question (past/current or desired) with some version of "I'm happy to discuss salary at a later time but I'd like to [focus on what I can bring to the company | learn more about the job and what the work will entail | whatever]" and if they persist, I try to ask them what their budget is.

If it's on an application, I just put 0.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

bolind posted:

“Don’t tell them your current salary”

First, a lot of employers, and an even larger ratio of recruiters, can be very insistent on knowing your current salary. This is very important knowledge to them, as it gives them several benefits.
  • If the new position pays significantly less, they know they should cut their losses and not progress with the candidate.
  • It tells them what the candidate would be happy with (current salary plus a modest increase.)
  • It let's them, given more than one roughly equally attractive candidate, the option of getting the cheapest one.
Companies, and recruiters, will come up with all sorts of sorry rear end excuses for knowing your current salary. All of them are bullshit. Here’s a list of responses, ordered by snarkiness:
  • "I’d rather not say."
  • "I don’t see how it pertains to our current discussion, I’d much rather talk about my potential role in this company, and how we could benefit each other if I came on board."
  • "I’m contractually obligated not to disclose that information."
  • "I don’t know, why don’t you tell me what the budget is for this position/what you pay people like me currently?"
  • "I don’t know, what’s your salary?"
  • "Gentlemen, thank you for your time and the coffee. I wish you the best of luck filling the position. Don't worry, I know the way out. Good day."
Interviewers pressing this issue are most likely people you wouldn’t like to work for, and it’s a huge red flag. Consider this: by pressuring the candidate on this issue, they’re doing three things:
  1. They’re bullying the candidate to show his hand in the negotiation.
  2. They’re going to hire a candidate who’s dumb enough to do that. (Think about that for a second. How will a candidate dumb enough to do that behave when, after being hired, having to negotiate on behalf of the department or company? How dumb will he be when he writes code/designs bridges/sells stuff?)
  3. They (often) have no way to verify the candidate’s information, so he could be lying through his teeth, making this information useless anyways.
    There’s a few instances where you could let your current salary slip, in order to anchor the negotiation in your favor. Examples could be if you’re vastly overpaid and you know it, if you’re OK with making a horizontal move salary-wise because you’ll benefit in other ways (better commute, more interesting tasks, better bennies etc.) But those cases are few and far between.
TL;DR: Never disclose your current salary, and walk away if they press the issue.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

teen witch posted:

Question - when asked, how do you respond?
“I’m not permitted to say”
“$company views their compensation structure as proprietary information.”
“Well, there’s a reason I’m leaving.”
“Before I answer that, may I ask what you have budgeted for this role?”
“I’d rather not say.”
“That’s not particularly relevant to this conversation.”

It’s OK to be a bit rude in answering, given that it’s a rude question to ask. If someone gives you poo poo for not answering, they’re telling you about themselves.

Car Hater
May 7, 2007

wolf. bike.
Wolf. Bike.
Wolf! Bike!
WolfBike!
WolfBike!
ARROOOOOO!
"A million a day"


"You want to argue about it? ten million"


"It's not unrealistic, I just want to be able to afford bread next year, I'm very forward-thinking"

Car Hater
May 7, 2007

wolf. bike.
Wolf. Bike.
Wolf! Bike!
WolfBike!
WolfBike!
ARROOOOOO!
For content, I had a recruiter hit me up for what would be a good step up in responsibility and pay, but I'm in Africa for a month and had no means to edit the resume I had to pull from an old email. Will report back on how tight the labor market is based on whether I can get an interview with a resume last updated 3 years ago

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Red posted:

I got a "more details by the end of the week" call, explaining things are hung up because people are on Spring Break, so I guess that's a good sign.

And final round with HR is more of a 'culture' interview.

Edit: I am totally writing down answers to all of these: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/last-hurdle-how-interview-hr-james-manders/
I got as far as "What other companies are you interviewing with?" and realised I wouldn't be answering some of these questions.

Magnetic North
Dec 15, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Arquinsiel posted:

I got as far as "What other companies are you interviewing with?" and realised I wouldn't be answering some of these questions.

When I get that question I say something to the effect of "Well, I offer all companies I talk to with a certain level of privacy and discretion, and that includes you, of course. So, I really can't elaborate more. If you're afraid of me accepting an offer somewhere else during this process, I will say that I am not currently negotiating any offers at this time." It's probably too talky, but I am a coward.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Dik Hz posted:

Don’t get interview tips from HR people. Anyone who tells you to tell interviewers your current or previous salary should be dismissed entirely.

This advice column is a list of poo poo that makes his life easier and not necessarily what’s in the candidate’a best interests.

Usually, I'd agree, except the recruiter from this company specifically went into detail about this stuff in the initial screening. I wouldn't put it past any HR interviewer to circle back to this stuff.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Red posted:

Usually, I'd agree, except the recruiter from this company specifically went into detail about this stuff in the initial screening. I wouldn't put it past any HR interviewer to circle back to this stuff.
What stuff specifically? Did an HR recruiter refer you to a column written by an HR person?

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Magnetic North posted:

When I get that question I say something to the effect of "Well, I offer all companies I talk to with a certain level of privacy and discretion, and that includes you, of course. So, I really can't elaborate more. If you're afraid of me accepting an offer somewhere else during this process, I will say that I am not currently negotiating any offers at this time." It's probably too talky, but I am a coward.
"For legal reasons I cannot discuss that" for like half of the questions in that article TBH.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Am I missing something? That list of questions seem like....pretty normal questions. The advice for talking about money is horrendously bad, but the advice for "Are you interviewing elsewhere" is pretty good. Say yes, give a little platitude about "This is my preferred company", and make sure they know they need to be aggressive if they want you.

Generally being able to speak to these questions seems like a good idea for an HR interview.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Dik Hz posted:

What stuff specifically? Did an HR recruiter refer you to a column written by an HR person?

Being aware of "What does our company do?", for starters. The recruiter went through the founding, principles, mission, you name it.

Now, this recruiter went way above and beyond (calling me on my schedule after hours to keep things moving, following up with me on status, etc.) - and I included a note about my appreciation to him when I sent a thank you note to my interviewer, which got me an all caps thank you. So, I think him reading the usual boilerplate script in full is probably for a reason, because he's otherwise super direct/efficient.

I looked up typical questions for a final HR interview, and this was one of the top results - there is nothing wrong with being overprepared.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

My issue is that it’s written from a weird perspective. In a typical corporate hiring process, the HR interview is there to give an overview of benefits and corporate culture to the candidate, as well as look for issues the hiring manager might have missed. It’s not really a screening interview because the HR person typically isn’t a decision maker on hiring.

It’s somewhat misleading to candidates, in my opinion, to suggest that an HR person is going to aggressively screen based on the questions in that column.

The column is also written in a very one-sided way. Hiring good candidates is a two-way conversation, now more than ever. And that column has a very 2009 feeling to it.

I’m probably reading too much into though. Just my opinion.

Jumpsuit
Jan 1, 2007

Before we go all #notallrecruiters here's a real LinkedIn post from one

"Today I was told my beautiful dog has 3 months to live due to a brain tumour. the reason I share this on a professional network is not for sympathy, or for social media, but rather it has given me a a reality check that life is short, careers can be long.
Don't waste your time. get the job you want, own it, and do your best"

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Staring at the old dog waiting for a downturn so I can finally get some content.

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Was there a glamor shot selfie attached?

Leon Sumbitches
Mar 27, 2010

Dr. Leon Adoso Sumbitches (prounounced soom-'beh-cheh) (born January 21, 1935) is heir to the legendary Adoso family oil fortune.





Leon Sumbitches posted:

Had the conversation and it's kismet, I have a high degree of confidence they will offer me a job that will double my salary and let me lead cool environmental justice work.

The old adage "it's not what you know it's who you know" certainly worked for me this time, as an old colleague recommended me. Life is funny.

Went to the design studio and it's gorgeous. The work is impressive and it's a jump from mid- to senior-level, including what I assume will be a generous compensation package. They're 100% sold on me, but they don't know one key fact.

After our Friday meeting, I connected with another professional on linkedin who gave me their cell. Sunday we talked on the phone for almost an hour, and she made big noises about bringing me on to her team. I'd prefer to work for her, I think, but need to draw out the first offer process as long as possible.


Any thoughts on how to leverage this situation, assuming the second lead is serious and invites me in to meet people?

Coco13
Jun 6, 2004

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.

Leon Sumbitches posted:

Any thoughts on how to leverage this situation, assuming the second lead is serious and invites me in to meet people?

No advice, just jealousy.

Omne
Jul 12, 2003

Orangedude Forever

Well on the one hand, it's great that you have two possibilities.

On the other hand, you do not have an offer from either, so 'leverage' isn't the right term. Let's assume you get an offer from the first company. Your leverage at that point would be to get the second company to go through the process rather quickly. The risk is that it doesn't move quickly enough, causing you to either accept the the first offer and give up on company B, or reject A in the hopes of getting the offer from B.

Or, accept A and keep talking with B. Look out for ole #1

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Coco13 posted:

No advice, just jealousy.

:emptyquote:

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
If you get an offer from 1, you tell them "I have a competing offer in the works and need some time to weigh my options". Then you go to #2 and tell them "I have a serious offer I am considering taking, but would be interested if you want to move quickly through the process". Basically, at this point just telling the truth gives you the most leverage.

You can also accept an offer and then turn it down. It's kinda crappy and it might get you blacklisted at that company, but usually not. I'd try to avoid that if you can but it's not the end of the world. Starting a job and then bailing is worse. Since you mentioned environmental justice I'd guess that that world is small, so of course be mindful that who you burn today may burn you tomorrow.

Also if #2 drags their feet then just move on. I've known a million people who talk big games about who they want to hire and bring on but don't actually have any budget.

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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
I wouldn’t play games around accepting an offer and then bailing at a senior level, especially if the industry is small.

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