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I haven't really paid attention to what the level curve is, but it feels pretty steep; you go from filling several levels with a single golden ticket, to a fraction of a bar by level 25. Given that this game seems to lean towards using all your tools in your toolbox instead of sharpening just few tools, I'd rather have two level 25s instead of one level 30. We'll see just how difficult the new content is, and if it does require 30s, well, I hope I have enough tickets stockpiled
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Mar 26, 2023 15:32
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I'm waiting until Don's Telepole is in the gacha pool before I start pulling N Corp 2, and I'm waiting to see what all I have after those pulls before I start sinking things into units for Railway (ughhhhh I'm also going to have drastically reduced availability a lot of the first week too), though everything I have in combat on a team currently's at 30/U3 at least. Still doing the dailies, of course, just sitting on the loot for a bit.
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Mar 26, 2023 15:34
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Man, the nerf hit the fish HARD. You don't have to actually think at all anymore, just mashing win rate is enough now with no stress whatsoever.
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Mar 26, 2023 22:26
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My poor Ichthys... 
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Mar 26, 2023 23:45
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ichtys, now more like eat this *gets gripped*
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Mar 26, 2023 23:52
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posadas posted:I haven't really paid attention to what the level curve is, but it feels pretty steep; you go from filling several levels with a single golden ticket, to a fraction of a bar by level 25. Given that this game seems to lean towards using all your tools in your toolbox instead of sharpening just few tools, I'd rather have two level 25s instead of one level 30. We'll see just how difficult the new content is, and if it does require 30s, well, I hope I have enough tickets stockpiled It costs 36 (I think) of the gold xp tickets to max out a character, or one level 20 ticket + 30 gold XP tickets. Five of those tickets are just for 29 -> 30 though, and one level's worth of stats is barely anything. So 31 tickets per character you want at level 29. Right now we're getting 18 per day (5 gold plus 5 silver = 6 gold), so about one maxed out character per two days of farming. Soon we'll be getting 4 tickets per run instead, plus however many silver tickets, so maybe 9 exp runs (18 modules) to max a character? edit: omg lol this poor fish. hit us all too hard and then got nerfed by hand of god lmao ok i checked my chars: 10 -> 20: 7 tickets (gets you halfway through 20, if you start at 0/168 on level 10) 20 -> 25: 11 tickets 25 -> 29: 14 tickets 29 -> 30: 5 tickets So maybe 7-8 tickets for the first 20 levels. Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 01:42
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BTW, when I turned off 'Post Processing' in the options menu, the game stopped crashing on my phone. If you're having crash problems, try and see if that helps.
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Mar 27, 2023 01:59
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Quackles posted:BTW, when I turned off 'Post Processing' in the options menu, the game stopped crashing on my phone. iOS user here, it seems to be running much smoother now, I’ll have to do a MD to check later but this may have fixed it. Jeez. 
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Mar 27, 2023 02:58
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I just noticed something else. You know when you use 'To Checkpoint' in a chapter dungeon? This resets your progress to that of the last checkpoint... but you keep your current sin resources. This could be used for some cheese!
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Mar 27, 2023 03:24
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This post was going to be a terrible Numbers Don't Lie copypasta, but I couldn't make it work. Instead, after talking about it on Discord, I will have to bore you with the numbers about how the proposed XP Luxcavation changes will actually make the grind worse unless you explicitly use it as an Enkephalin sink. As of right now you get 5 Silver/Gold tickets for the first 3 runs you do a day, and 3 each thereafter. With the bonuses removed it's going to be 4 of each per run. So what happens is you do your normal 3 runs, only to find that you're 3 tickets behind where you should have been, so you try to catch up... (5+5+5+3+3+3) = (4+4+4+4+4+4) And find out that you've only managed to catch up and become net neutral once you've done 6 runs. So every run from this point on is net positive, and you're in the clear right? Well yeah, except each run cost you 2 modules, which each cost 20 Enkephalin a piece, or 240 Enkephalin total. So you've literally spent your entire day's worth of Enkephalin, doing 6 XP runs without getting a single Thread Lux in, to get back to par with what you would have been if no changes had been made, and only now can you make a profit on XP. And I guess this works out for those of us who do have dozens of modules to burn, but it seems like it really sucks for people who are just getting into the game now. Unless I'm missing something here, which I would very much like to be. Jossar fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 04:22
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i just do one exp and one thread a day, for the battlepass dailies
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Mar 27, 2023 04:41
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After the changes there is no reason to do more than one exp a day for the BP, unless you’re expressly grinding someone up. That means a slow drip of exp tickets at all times, plus ~4 modules you can stockpile away per day for dungeons or whatever. Thread dungeons are 3/day forever imo tho, 18 thread for free is much more valuable than the exp, whether it’s 5/5 or 4/4. Anyways if you need to grind someone right the hell now, burn enkeph boxes and turn them directly into modules. They’re worth 3 each.
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Mar 27, 2023 05:02
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I'm doing the full three EXP dailies right now just because they're going to be less efficient later. It seems like a good idea to hedge against the possibility of them increasing the level cap or otherwise adding something else to level, because it's a live service game and they do that, even the non-gacha ones.
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Mar 27, 2023 05:33
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The UI already notes that Level Boost III tickets can't be used at 30+, so they're definitely planning to increase the level cap.
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Mar 27, 2023 05:53
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Einander posted:I'm doing the full three EXP dailies right now just because they're going to be less efficient later. It seems like a good idea to hedge against the possibility of them increasing the level cap or otherwise adding something else to level, because it's a live service game and they do that, even the non-gacha ones.
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Mar 27, 2023 05:53
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It's like the decision they made in Ruina to boost the level cap from 20 to 30, except they're trying to make it less bad than that was. Which is a really low bar to clear because LMAO that was a bad idea, removing key page levels was a great plan.
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Mar 27, 2023 06:03
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you keep the levels capped in a game like this so that you don't create a huge power gap between casual players and grinders. so you can have a good baseline for player power when designing new content
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Mar 27, 2023 06:06
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Quackles posted:I just noticed something else. does this, ahem does this work on ch3 final boss
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Mar 27, 2023 06:13
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I dunno about returning to checkpoint but you can just retreat after the first turn and your sinners will keep all the sanity they gained from winning clashes. (Otherwise returning to checkpoint normally resets it to +0). So if you want a bit of cheese to help early on in the fight you can do that a few times to reach +45.
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Mar 27, 2023 06:44
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I have parked all of my identities at lvl 20 and had no issues finishing any content with them sa far. I am stockpiling EXP tickets for the Railway, obviously, but I think I'll do a few tries without leveling them, just to see how far can I go. the answer will be the first stage. 
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Mar 27, 2023 09:56
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Google Jeb Bush posted:does this, ahem Even if it doesn't, the newly-announced nerfs will! Patch notes also include a lot of bug fixes and, rather critically hidden away deep in the patch, THE SIDE OF THE STATUS THAT COUNT / POTENCY SHOW UP ON WILL BE SWAPPED. I guess it makes sense that X instances for Y damage reads more naturally than Y damage repeated X times, but still.
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Mar 27, 2023 11:13
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Ariamaki posted:Patch notes also include a lot of bug fixes and, rather critically hidden away deep in the patch, THE SIDE OF THE STATUS THAT COUNT / POTENCY SHOW UP ON WILL BE SWAPPED. I guess it makes sense that X instances for Y damage reads more naturally than Y damage repeated X times, but still. ....what? It was count/potency the whole time?!! WHAT? 
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Mar 27, 2023 11:53
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Lt. Lizard posted:....what? It was count/potency the whole time?!! WHAT? Yes, the way it currently displays is (Count) ICON (Potency), as demonstrated by Greg here trying not to instantly explode.  This is sometimes confusing with certain buffs that only have Count and not Potency, where it always shows a single number on the right (which might be why they're making this change): This is how the Bind in the same picture works, as well as Ammo and Fragile, Nails and Paralysis, etc. The easiest way to see the current behavior for other stats is to apply a buttload of Tremor with LCCB Ishmael: Seeing 3 (Tremor) 16 on dudes is a very regular occurrence while her own ammo count is to the right of the bullet. I am personally not sure how much I like the idea of it being swapped but we'll have to see how it plays out.
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Mar 27, 2023 11:59
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Huh, I thought the current way it read was pretty clear. X count of Y effect just makes sense. But I guess it's not really a big deal.
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Mar 27, 2023 12:47
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Jossar posted:So you've literally spent your entire day's worth of Enkephalin, doing 6 XP runs without getting a single Thread Lux in, to get back to par with what you would have been if no changes had been made, and only now can you make a profit on XP. And I guess this works out for those of us who do have dozens of modules to burn, but it seems like it really sucks for people who are just getting into the game now. Unless I'm missing something here, which I would very much like to be. I think it's about no longer pressuring players to use 100% of their free energy generation on dailies, and having 0 energy left for other stuff. My interpretation is that they want players to be doing fewer XP runs overall, and not making it half of their free energy's daily farming routine (just keeping 1/day for the battle pass quest). When players see the "daily bonus" bullshit, it makes them feel inclined to spend their energy getting the bonus, because they don't want to miss out, but that seems like a downer when daily bonuses are 100% of your energy and would disincentivize users from saving up modules for later content like the thing in April that's also gonna cost modules to get rewards from. It definitely felt like a misstep when people did the math when it first came out and came up with "you'll need to log in 2-3x per day and spend ALL your saved energy to complete all 6 runs", so it makes sense to me that their first change was "you can stockpile the energy instead of having to use it right then" followed immediately by "you don't have to use 100% of your day's energy to get 100% of the daily rewards". The XP curve is steep from 27 onwards, but it doesn't take that many XP tickets to get to level 20 or 25, and I think it's interesting that the Mirror Dungeon is one of the grind spots but it doesn't need you to use any XP tickets to get new characters ready for it, just thread. Now players can spend 120 energy on farming their 18 thread per day, 40 on the xp for the battlepass, and can save 80 xp/day to use on other stuff (such as stockpiling modules or doing mirror dungeon for battle pass XP). If you only check in twice a day and get 200 energy saved instead of 240, you're not missing out on too much. And now if you need XP because you get a new character, you can just use modules grind it all out at once instead of having to wait for the daily bonuses (assuming you don't have enough tickets to start with). I'm definitely doing 3x XP dailies now to stockpile tickets while the rate is higher though. The extra modules I'm getting are from the level up energy refills, which seems to have me at roughly net positive energy for now. Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 23:04
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Presumably once we get a regular flow of actual events those will also havr generous exp rewards.
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Mar 27, 2023 23:15
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I thought level cap increase was pretty obvious given that 3-22 has recommended level 30
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Mar 27, 2023 23:33
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lol at getting 300 lunacy for a random minor short update i'm not sure project moon understands the concept of running a gacha game
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Mar 28, 2023 05:42
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Google Jeb Bush posted:lol at getting 300 lunacy for a random minor short update tbf with how few ways there are of getting lunacy rn once you've cleared the story i do kind of get being generous with it
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Mar 28, 2023 05:52
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Google Jeb Bush posted:lol at getting 300 lunacy for a random minor short update I mean they DID start emergency unannounced maintenance which kicked people out MDs and such. Better safe than sorry with compensation, toss on some apologems and most gacha people will forgive anything and it really doesn't cost them much to give us, what, 2 and a bit rolls?
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Mar 28, 2023 05:54
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actually, that reminds me: is there any indication that single-roll extraction tickets will ever be combinable to 10s, or should i just throw them at
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Mar 28, 2023 06:18
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Google Jeb Bush posted:lol at getting 300 lunacy for a random minor short update In my experience most games of this genre (and many non-gacha games available on mobile) tend to give away a little bit of the main MTX currency as a gift for patches anyways, whether it's framed as "celebration" or "compensation". Google Jeb Bush posted:actually, that reminds me: is there any indication that single-roll extraction tickets will ever be combinable to 10s, or should i just throw them at No indication they'll be combination targets, I've had 10 in inventory and I don't remember seeing an option.
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Mar 28, 2023 07:03
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Ariamaki posted:Do enough people have Nagel und Hammer Identities / upties that we can discuss N Corp's very literal "brain food" they're seemingly siphoning out of victims and using to brainwash their soldiers? I posted about it way back. It's a bunch of  to type out, but my thoughts and a summation of the N corp identities "plot" so far (for those that don't have the stories unlocked yet) from what we've seen of all of the identities:Nagel und Hammer appears to have basically automated the process of creating religious supremacists/bigots/fascists through the application of violence. When the nails impale a target they steal a substance that when consumed lets a person live out experiences (that are probably invariably agonizing since they're basically getting impaled, hence the group's bizarre obsession with pain that creeps in around the edges of the bigoted fanaticism) from the impaled victim. In true dystopian form however, this doesn't seem to be good for the mind of the Nagel und Hammer member as the drug induced vr-esque "experience" state seems to really gently caress with their brains as it gets used more and more. Rodion audibly and then visibly loses her poo poo the more you uptie her, for instance, and her story basically boils down to her de-evolving to a bigoted fanatic that can only hurt others. The product of the violence inflicted by the nails in turn is used to harm the recruit to Nagel und Hammer and make them subservient to the ideology they're mechanically indoctrinating them into by scrambling their brain with stolen life experiences (Which from what we know of seems to be N corp's singularity.) from those that person has murdered. If it isn't clear from that, this is done primarily by running their brain through a haze of religious indoctrination via induced stolen experiences over and over with each prayer session (which is where they eat the brain goop drugs) until they're no longer able to function outside of the dogma that has been implanted inside of them. The longer you're a part of the group, the more people you hurt. The more people you hurt, the more your sense of reality gets skewed to what the bigoted and/or insane authority figures in the group want you to be instead of who you actually are. It's a vicious cycle that makes victimizers of the in group and victims of the chosen out group that is to be persecuted. Which is horrifying and on the nose for how fascists, supremacists, religious supremacists, fundamentalists, etc, etc, work in making it harder to sever from the group the deeper in you go. Albeit this is being done in a dystopian sci-fi way that references the methods groups like that recruit and indoctrinate off of instead of using old fashioned indoctrination methods that can possibly fail and let the recruit get their life together enough to escape the trap they've fallen into. But more on that in a moment. Most disturbingly, thinking about how Nagel und Hammer works and the implications of it the only way to realistically stop the group in it's whole would be to meet their genocide (and to be clear, Faust-Kromer's story makes it clear that it is a genocide she wants when she isn't simping over Sinclair) with an act of mass murder directed against them that wipes all of them out without mercy or consideration for atonement or innocence. Since the nails let them steal experiences, which can make the goop in the cans they eat, which is almost certainly some sort of mind scrambling "experience" inducing drug made up of the group's victims, and they can always get more by just finding a new scapegoat to victimize to produce the experiences/vr drugs/whatever they do to the brain ultimately the only way to stop them is to wipe them all out, full stop, no mercy. If there's a nail then there's a person waiting to be turned into a hammer. If there's a hammer, and they have a nail, then that's more people that can be turned into hammers that can wield nails so long as they're supplied with the nail. The only thing the group really needs is one to "grip" them --- a leader or authority figure to direct their rabid desire to do harm to others in a way that expands the group. There's no civilians in this, just victims and hateful pricks that slowly get indoctrinated, go rabid with the ideology, and then need to be put down before they can torture people to death for having a prosthetic. Suffice to say that it's all pretty grim, even from a "how the gently caress could anyone in the City fix this messed up group and stop them from hurting people" sort of perspective. Notably, something I noticed was that despite talking a lot about the methods of the group and their indoctrination methods we never see them pal around or show any of the artificial camaraderie of extremist supremacist and many hate groups. It's to the point where it seems like they've shelved the most human aspect of the indoctrination process (ironically, for a group of human purists) as it's comparatively ineffective compared to the technological methods they've designed. For instance, Rodion straight up nearly butchers you in one convo in her ID and she doesn't even seem that broken up about it. It's Meursalt and Heathcliff, who aren't as indoctrinated despite being at opposite ends of prestige in the group that are the most affable sounding. Or to put it in another way: In the pursuit of forcing humanity to adhere to their belief of "purity" the lay members and officers of Hammer und Nagel have ultimately thrown away the final human part about their cause --- namely the common attribute of many hate groups that even if they're abominable pieces of poo poo the world is better off without they at least can pretend to care about each other until they use each other up. That's not there any more. Nagel und Hammer so far has been depicted as having the technology to kill the last guttering dregs of humanity a group like that might otherwise have. New recruits are worked damned near to death and we never hear anything about it, just Heathcliff fantasizing about getting at least some sleep between indoctrination sessions between giving heavy lore dump implications on his base identity's future story. Given that the writers seem to have some understanding of how extremist groups work I can't help but wonder if that also isn't intentional. What all this means is that so long as one group of Nagel und Hammer capable of inflicting fashy/bigoted violence is left alive they can easily keep bringing in "recruits" to rebuild their numbers without having to resort to the old fashioned supremacist/fascist cult methods of indoctrination by fostering a sense of belonging alongside an in group and out group to persecute (especially when factoring in how blasé the city is with inflicting violent death, which only lets them get away with more violence by changing targets.) This is basically Heathcliff's story. Dude joined up because of wanting to escape family drama and promptly got more than he bargained for, steadily becoming less of a decent person and more of a violent xenophobe as what he wants gets broken down more and more. The only way out for a victim of the group that was offered membership would be to  early on as Heathcliff failed to do and hope they don't torture you and suck you dry as revenge for figuring out the con that in a sick twist none of them are mentally capable enough to recognize themselves. Meaning without N corp cutting them off or an external group bringing violence down onto them the whole thing is reasonably self propagating despite being utterly batshit insane in it's genocidal agenda. Long story short, if it wasn't for them needing the backing of a wing they'd basically be a literal case of a full on urban plague like the Sweepers. Obviously they definitely are one metaphorically.  There is also the subtle implication that N corp is only supporting them because they're capitalists selling "canned experiences" exploiting a bunch of rabid and very much dangerous bigots to secure greater financial profits and an even more comfier position at the expense of everyone else. Which is on dead on for how conservative politicians and preachers exploit and create hatred to line their own pockets and rise to a better social position. TL;DR: Some excellent social commentary there-in about right wing, religious, and authoritarian groups wrapped up in an utterly grimdark take that advances the dystopian sci-fi of the setting in a horrifying way. 10/10, would grip again. Edit: Interestingly enough, I do wonder if Meursalt's identity is wavering in his conviction because Meursalt is afflicted with anomie and has a disinterest in artificial social constructs or because he has a bunch of K Corp life juice tubes hooked up to a prosthetic that is accidentally repairing the damage to his psyche or possibly even brain over time. Ironically, if it's the latter thing then this means that each time he gets the poo poo beat out of him and is murdered for brutally torturing people to death he is likely getting closer to being more like the person he used to be before Nagel und Hammer ruined him due to the tubes injecting their healing juices into him. Which makes me wonder if he's going to show up again later. Also, as I type this I realize that depending on how you look at it the game could be saying that supremacists and bigots are all brain damaged lunatics that are high on their own supply. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 07:37
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Very cool write-up! Thanks for sharing.
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Mar 28, 2023 13:15
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Does the saying "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" exist in other languages? I feel it's a pretty universal concept that probably has equivalents in other languages, but perhaps with different objects
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Mar 28, 2023 14:25
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https://twitter.com/LimbusCompany_B/status/1640703109302464512 Here comes Seven Outis!
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Mar 28, 2023 14:29
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Theantero posted:Very cool write-up! Thanks for sharing. They've definitely got a bunch of depth behind them. It's just a shame that it takes so much typing to describe it all. Something I forgot to add onto that though is that N Corp doesn't appear to be just exploiting groups like Nagel und Hammer to protect their market demographic through vicious racism and all around bigotry. They're almost certainly straight up directly part of the harvesting teams that comprise part of N corp's profits. Those nails are by all accounts straight up a singularity, or some sort of derivative or extractor for N Corp to provide what we know is one of their primary products. There also might be something there that's meant to contrast them with Lobotomy Corp. Whereas Enkephalin is an endorphin and is part of positive emotions and the like derived from horrible eldritch monstrosities preying upon average people, it seems like the canned experiences that are N Corp's whole thing are taken from experiences (not emotions necessarily) that so far have dealt with things like pain and suffering forced onto and stolen from normal people that just want to live their lives and are being preyed upon by N Corp's monstrous proxies. I probably missed some other stuff, but yeah. Between this and the other games and novels they've packed a lot into these few characters and chapter. Makes me wonder how much of a nightmare N Corp's district is going to be when we go there, given that between this stuff and the other stuff to do with it we're getting tons of heads up that it's probably the most messed up wing of the city we've seen yet. We're probably going to get a Sinclair Nagel und Hammer identity sooner or later, so maybe it'll expand on all of this further. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 14:54
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GilliamYaeger posted:https://twitter.com/LimbusCompany_B/status/1640703109302464512 Welp, here I go, spending Lunacy again.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:00
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Nails are N Corp's real/original singularity, given the alternate universe stuff seems to be more modern.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:02
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| # ? May 20, 2024 21:02 |
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GilliamYaeger posted:https://twitter.com/LimbusCompany_B/status/1640703109302464512 Will Outis finally get an identity that's better than her default one? Maybe! I don't have 7 Section Ryoshu, but I've gotten a lot of mileage out of 7 Section Yi Sang.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:07
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