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a friend in another chat observes that, with the emergency expiring in may, free antigens covered by insurance may end too, so may make sense to start organizing your antigens by test expiry
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Mar 28, 2023 15:23
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Rest in peace, petey-gramps, your legacy is safe.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:29
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https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7214205185093045510 time to get an EV
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Mar 28, 2023 15:39
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Petey posted:a goon in the running megathread; pray for them Oh boy this was my same basic post-COVID experience. Not a runner and my pre-COVID RHR was a bit higher, but post-infection elevated 20-30bpm sleeping is even worse than what I had. They're only 2 weeks in too, in my case the chest stuff lasted ~4 months. The cardiologist similarly couldn't find any obvious cause. Fortunately it seems most people that experience this kind of post-infection issue eventually recover on their own within 6 months. Still sucks. Very interesting to see their cardiologist approves the return to the exercise routine but to stop if they feel symptoms. TBH I think that's better advice than waiting some arbitrary 6 week period or whatever. Most people do seem to recover without any cardiac symptoms and are probably fine to start exercising when they feel better. However if you have any chest discomfort you really need to pay attention and stop, but there's an unfortunate tendency in some fitness types to push through pain. At least they're talking about this with their doctor and not the internet.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:40
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Steve Yun posted:https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7214205185093045510 yeah I've got a career I stand in random places and shout at my phone
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Mar 28, 2023 15:41
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Steve Yun posted:https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7214205185093045510 I have skin, I’m good.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:43
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Steve Yun posted:https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7214205185093045510 I know this thread mocks "wash your hands" as a response to COVID, but almost no diseases can attack your body from the hairless parts of your hands, and if you wash them, they don't migrate to your face. Wash your hands frequently(especially before eating), and don't become weirdos obsessed with how germy various surfaces are.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:47
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Petey that's heartbreaking and you have my condolences
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Mar 28, 2023 15:49
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Many condolences Petey, all I could think about when you described your grandfather's faith was this Woody Guthrie song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZg_t9UyJY
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Mar 28, 2023 15:56
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Nocturtle posted:At least they're talking about this with their doctor and not the internet. i don't know... i mean considering the poo poo we've heard from doctors over the past 3 years or so, i think i'd trust this thread over some random doctor i'm seeing for the first time. thankfully my doctor has been wearing at least an aura every single time i've seen him since the start of the pandemic so i would actually trust him more than the internet for this ...probably
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Mar 28, 2023 15:56
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I use latex gloves whenever I buy gas
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Mar 28, 2023 15:58
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NeonPunk has issued a correction as of 20:21 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 16:03
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Steve Yun posted:https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7214205185093045510 oregon supremacy
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Mar 28, 2023 16:07
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NeonPunk posted:Are you reading a different post or something like that? Maybe the doctor said "stop if you feel faint" and the goon misheard?
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Mar 28, 2023 16:09
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Zantie posted:Maybe the doctor said "stop if you feel faint" and the goon misheard? My girlfriend's mom (who was walking over a mile to work every single day last year) still can't climb a flight of stairs after her infection in December. And when I say she can't do it, I mean we had to rescue her off the stairs of her apartment a few times because she had almost collapsed and couldn't even go back down. Anyway, her doctor's advice has been "get more exercise" and "don't worry unless you actually pass out." So, uh, wouldn't surprise me if that goon heard things just fine. I think a lot of doctors are not equipped to deal with something new and frightening like this and fall back really hard on the idea that if you're "healthy" then everything must be fine.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:31
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Steve Yun posted:xabitron1, the guy who started naming variants after Greek monsters, started calling XBB SARS3 a couple months ago Thanks for the article. The authors didn't format the thing for easy reading, but it repays the effort. I just reposted the article, together with a bullet point summary of what I managed to glean from it, to the other forum I'm on. They're sensible people over there, but they're susceptible to social pressure in ways that I'm not, and I don't want to lose any of them. And that article just told us all that for all intents and purposes, early 2023 is to the pandemic as early 1916 was to World War I.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:34
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i'm getting booster number... whatever later today. i've been using the same CVS for the last few years, saying i'm immunocompromised and that i don't have insurance. should I expect that they will still not charge me, or has that changed? edit: they called me and said getting another bivalent booster hasn't been approved yet, so I'm out of luck. actionjackson has issued a correction as of 17:17 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 17:11
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There is some reporting that the FDA is considering to allow high-risk groups to get a second booster in the near future: https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1638245626537443328 This would bring the US into line with most other places that did a fall booster campaign. It is very silly that high risk groups so far haven't been approved for a second booster in the US.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:20
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[pestilence] it is very silly
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Mar 28, 2023 17:21
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lie to them/go to a different place those fuckers also recommended no masks and then said vaccines completely eliminated the chance of infection, so very respectfully, they dont know what the gently caress theyre talking about
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Mar 28, 2023 17:25
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yeah you're not gonna get arrested or whatever for lying. just keep lying to different places until one doesn't give a gently caress. it's annoying but that's the max price for now.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:42
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im pooping! posted:lie to them/go to a different place Their conduct is indistinguishable from what the virus would do itself if it had human form.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:48
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CPU Abuser posted:And that article just told us all that for all intents and purposes, early 2023 is to the pandemic as early 1916 was to World War I. well except that the fight wasn't a pointless meatgrinder and there actually was a valid reason for it, one side has apparently left the trenches to go to brunch, the other side keeps gassing the brunch place, and the officers keep assuring the rest of the table that, actually, phosgene is basically harmless, and mustard gas lingering around for weeks or months and continually causing damage is all in your head
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Mar 28, 2023 17:54
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Went to the pcp. Overheard one of them in the group begging a covid positive patient to go get paxlovid over the phone.
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Mar 28, 2023 18:03
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Asproigerosis posted:Went to the pcp. Overheard one of them in the group begging a covid positive patient to go get paxlovid over the phone. Why? Safe and effective Ivermectin is available everywhere! Not that you need it for a silly little cold like "covid".
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Mar 28, 2023 18:05
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Asproigerosis posted:Went to the pcp. Overheard one of them in the group begging a covid positive patient to go get paxlovid over the phone. reverse psychology???
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Mar 28, 2023 18:05
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Petey posted:my grandfather died over the weekend. not of covid. he was 95 and his throat had a hole in it. he couldn’t swallow his own saliva anymore. I'm so sorry Petey. It sounds like he was a genuinely great person and also extremely lucky to have you and your mom looking out for him and keeping him safe these past three years.
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Mar 28, 2023 18:07
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I also heard them talking about some girl had a head CT but she was unknowingly pregnant and I had to try very hard to not but in and ummm actually you'd need way more radiation exposure to be worried about effects on the fetus! Why, you could do an abdomen/pelvis CT and not come close to minimum exposure levels known to cause injury to the fetus. But linear no threshold, so no liability ur liability
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Mar 28, 2023 18:17
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Johnny Cache Hit posted:Many condolences Petey, all I could think about when you described your grandfather's faith was this Woody Guthrie song thanks. he liked guthrie, and he *loved* johnny cash's hymn covers. my brothers and mom and my grandma spent what turned out to be his last day together softly singing along with "my mother's hymn book" to him while he lay in hospice. that's what i meant by appreciating him making it through the true lockdown periods of covid, by which i mean when applebees was open but the hospitals were closed. my heart goes out to anyone in this thread who lost a loved one these last few years in a way where they weren't able to see them or say goodbye. when he did have covid in april of this year, i was able to use a provision in the ADA to get access to his ward to be with him, in my p100 with a face shield (all the nurses were like: "wait what is that", lol, in covid ward). he got remdesivir (some thread regulars may remember that daniel griffin from TWIV actually called my cell phone to guide his coverage, after i sent him an email) and made it through, cranky that the only christian tv shows they had at the hospital were prosperity gospel nonsense, blind but arguing with the televangelists as if they were in the room with him. like i said, he was a born poster — he authored a thesis at bible college arguing the textual foundations for nontrinitarian heresies, published four books of poetry, and like a medieval scribe copied over the bible longhand twice in order to study it better — and i hope to be but a shadow of his legacy.
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Mar 28, 2023 18:19
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fake name, no id, no insurance is still the best way to booster bandit.
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Mar 28, 2023 18:21
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He sounds amazing, Petey. Thank you for sharing him with us.
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Mar 28, 2023 18:26
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Paradoxish posted:My girlfriend's mom (who was walking over a mile to work every single day last year) still can't climb a flight of stairs after her infection in December. And when I say she can't do it, I mean we had to rescue her off the stairs of her apartment a few times because she had almost collapsed and couldn't even go back down. jfk that's grim
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Mar 28, 2023 18:35
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he seemed great. i probably wouldn't have such a low opinion of organized religion if there were more people like him around
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Mar 28, 2023 18:49
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U-DO Burger posted:You are not taking over the thread, this sounds very relevant to our present situation. Please post all the damning stuff you've come across. Ham Cheeks posted:By all means share here. It's super interesting and relevant to, well, the hell we live in Alright, apologies in advance if this is a little messy, there's quite a lot of ground to cover and I'm not entirely sure how to approach it in a digestible way. I might also have to break this up into two or more posts depending on how I'm feeling. First off a little personal history, I got sick with some sort of viral infection Halloween 1997 when I was nine. Halfway through trick'r'treating I stumbled home because I didn't feel right, I wound up with a fever of 106º and spent the next few days shaking in cold sweat, vomiting until only bile was coming up and borderline delirious. Two weeks later, after recovering from the initial infection a host of problems started, I was sleeping sixteen hours a day, fatiguing easily, getting almost daily migraines, along with a bunch of other bizarre symptoms including weird recurrent infections that no healthy person should be getting (including a pair of tonsils that the surgeon who removed them described as "swollen with infection, crumbling when I touched them", and a staph infection in my ear canals an ENT described as "like nothing I have ever seen in twenty years" which resulted in my ear canals swelling almost completely shut and landed me in hospital for four days). Doctors didn't know what to do with me and the pediatrician just sent me off with a psychiatry referral because I must be just anxious and depressed what with missing 90 school days a year. The psychiatrist concluded that it was depression (ignoring the other symptoms) and loaded me up with SSRIs (at age 12 I was on an adult dosage of an SSRI that now has a black label contraindicating prescribing it to adolescents, whoops). At one point it was suggested to my mother that she was the cause of my health issues, which were psychological. Teenage years were spent mostly in bed and I dropped out of highschool after missing most of it. I had a reduction in symptoms from around '08 to '15 during which time I was able to get my GED, get a B.A. and get into a prestigious graduate program, live a little bit. I'd still get migraines around ten days of the month and have weird crashes, but I was doing things. My health started to decline again in 2016 and like an idiot I tried to power through which only made things worse to the point where I've been essentially housebound the last five years. I can make the ten minute walk to the grocery store once a week, but I have to plan the day around it. I had to drop grad school. ME/CFS only came up as the diagnosis in 2018 which is when I started researching. As for care, I've been on a waiting list for close to three years now to get into one of two clinics in Canada that works with ME/CFS patients, but there's not really much in the way of treatment. As for symptoms: muscular pain throughout the body, odd joint issues, frequent migraines, fatigue and increased pain disproportionate to and following any exertion (vacuuming my room leaves me sweating and out of breath), chronically swollen lymph nodes in my neck and under my arms, I wake up drenched in sweat and having to change my shirt several times a night, I alternate between sleeping eighteen hours at a stretch and being struck with horrible insomnia where I'm too exhausted to sleep, I've collapsed and blacked out on occasion while standing in the kitchen, I get weird involuntary spasms and tics, have poor circulation in the extremities so my hands and feet are always freezing, and I get brain fog that causes me to lose focus and forget simple words etc. et. al. All things considered I'm still "mild" when it comes to symptom severity, I can putter around the apartment, shower five days out of seven, cook a simple meal, read in bed and sit at my desk for a few hours. The worst cases have people needing to be tubefed and completely isolated in dark rooms with no sensory stimulation. When COVID hit and the first Long COVID patients started appearing I already knew what it was and how they were going to be treated. ME/CFS has been around for a while, it was first noticed in the late 19th century following viral outbreaks which resulted in a number of patients experiencing mysterious symptoms long after the initial infection. Following an outbreak in 1934 at the L.A. County Hospital affecting mostly doctors and nurses it was termed "atypical poliomyelitis" by members of the USPHS. Dr. Alexander Gilliam who wrote the 90 page report on the outbreak concluded "it would be manifestly erroneous to consider as hysteria.” Similar outbreaks would occur in the following years, a convent in 1936, an army barracks in Switzerland in 1939, the town of Akuyeri Iceland in 1949 and Adelaide Australia in 1951, another army barracks in Germany in 1952. An outbreak at the Royal Free Hospital in 1955 in London would see it termed "benign myalgic encephalomyelitis", after which it was discovered that patients presenting similar disease narrative (i.e. mysterious onset after a viral infection) and symptoms existed across the population making the condition both epidemic and endemic. Although it wasn't fully understood, the disease was considered to be neuroimmune in nature. In 1970 two U.K. psychiatrists Colin McEverdy and Bill Beard released a five page paper "reexamining" the cases at the Royal Free Hospital and "concluded that there is little evidence of an organic disease affecting the central nervous system and that epidemic hysteria is a much more likely explanation. The data which support this hypothesis are the high attack rate in females compared with males; the intensity of the malaise compared with the slight pyrexia; the presence of subjective features similar to those seen in a previous epidemic of hysterical overbreathing..." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1700894/pdf/brmedj02268-0019.pdf) They would follow this up with a second five page paper looking at other cases where they again concluded that the cause was psychosomatic and made the first attempt at renaming the disease, calling it "myalgia nervosa" on the analogy of "anorexia nervosa." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1700895/pdf/brmedj02268-0023.pdf). This name wouldn't stick, but another one would a few years down the line. Their papers received hostile responses and the Royal Society of Medicine would affirm in 1978 that this was something with an organic basis. Psychiatry, however, experiencing a recent existential crisis with the rise of the Anti-Psychiatry movement and high profile embarrassments like the Rosenhan experiment was taken with the idea and saw a chance to reclaim some measure of prestige. As it turned out their aims would align with those of the incoming neoliberals who sought to dismantle the welfare state. You see, it's an expensive condition, sufferers are often out of work and if it was possible to deny disability benefits to them by claiming it was all in their head, all the better. Remember that outbreak in '34 in L.A.? Two of the doctors afflicted sued and were awarded $2,000,000 each through insurance (adjusted for inflation: $21,643,165.47). That's not something the industry can afford. Alongside the neoliberal turn the 1980s would see two intertwined but distinct programs of suppression, neglect, belittlement, and outright harm conducted. One in the U.S. and one in the U.K., with the program in the U.K. proving longer lasting, better funded, further reaching (especially vis-à-vis medical education and insurance industry procedure) and more vicious. We'll start with the program in the U.S. I'm basing a lot of this from the work of journalist Hillary Johnson and her 1996 book Osler's Web (https://www.oslersweb.com/the-book). The book is out of print and more than a little outdated when it comes to some of the science around the condition (Johnson operated under the idea that ME/CFS was the result of a distinct virus much like HIV/AIDS, but it's generally assumed now that it's an autoimmune/neuroinflammatory condition affecting numerous body systems that could be triggered by any number of viral/bacterial agents, including COVID, in combination with genetic predisposition and environmental factors), but much of the stuff she uncovered as to the neglect and derision ME/CFS received in the halls of the CDC and NIH by means of aggressive FOIA requests is still jaw dropping. Like this fake letter that was pinned to a bulletin board in the CDC alongside letters from ME/CFS patients demanding something be done: https://me-pedia.org/wiki/1986_Fake_CDC_letter. Another source is a 2015 document "Thirty Years of Disdain: How HHS and a Group of Psychiatrists Buried Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" written by a former pharmaceutical worker whose son fell ill with ME/CFS. This one is freely available here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bycueauxmh49z4l/Thirty%20Years%20of%20Disdain%20-%20Background.pdf?dl=0 This article also goes into far more depth regarding the CDC and ME/CFS than I'm able to here: https://www.virology.ws/2011/11/23/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-and-the-cdc-a-long-tangled-tale/ Additionally the article behind the infamous Newsweek cover that helped popularize the term "Yuppie Flu" is surprisingly compassionate and downplays the psychological angle in its coverage of the outbreak at Incline Village especially when considering the date of publication and the perceptual damage the cover inflicted: https://www.newsweek.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-205712 Two important events would occur in 1984, the first being the publication of a study pointing towards a dysfunction of the metabolic system and intracellular energy distribution following an abnormal immune response to a pathogen, the second was the response to a string of outbreaks in the U.S. which would set back research considerably. One of these outbreaks occurred in Incline Village Nevada where two doctors confronted with a rash of cases occurring in clusters begged the CDC for help. The CDC responded and their investigators looked at some charts, took some blood samples and left without so much as a word. Following the CDC investigation and with no further help forthcoming the two doctors at Incline Village (Dr. Paul Cheney and Dr. Daniel Peterson) paid for MRI scans of the patients out of their own pockets which revealed several abnormalities suggesting immune dysfunction or possible immunodeficiency. Despite their findings the CDC would issue their report on the incident in 1986 calling it "a syndrome of chronic fatigue" and making little of it. Simultaneously a second outbreak in Lyndonville New York was noticed by a Dr. David Bell, who like Cheney ad Peterson would notify the CDC, however, the CDC ignored his requests for aide and moreover neglected to inform him of the near identical cases taking place in Incline Village. Bell would only find out years later. Following the CDC investigation into the cases at Incline Village, NIH doctor Dr. Stephen Straus working off the hypothesis that the outbreak was related to elevated Epstein-Barr Virus antibodies in some of the patients, initiated an antiviral treatment trial, but found no statistical improvement beyond placebo controls. He concluded, “affect plays an important role in the perception of illness severity [...] in either spontaneous remission of the syndrome or a placebo effect [...] subjective improvement correlated with various measures of mood.” It would be later suggested in a 2013 study that it was more likely that the trial was not lengthy enough to demonstrate positive outcomes, or that the viral agent was not responsive to the antiviral medication used in the study. Straus kept up with this opinion, offering it to the media on numerous occasions, in a 1987 Nightline interview he stated, "From my own research, I know that this disorder is so subjective that patients will commonly feel better no matter what you give them." From Thirty Years of Disdain: quote:Then, in a 1988 New York Times article, Straus was quoted as saying that these patients were “psychologically different long before they developed the syndrome.”He described them as anxious, depressed and neurotic on the one hand or driven and under undue stress from busy lives on the other.147In a 1988 study, Straus noted that the disease affected mostly educated adult white women, which he postulated could be due to a selection bias driven by those who could afford treatment or else some “unique constitutional frailty of such individuals.” He went on to conclude, “A less casual appraisal, however, often uncovers histories of unachievable ambition, poor coping skills, and somatic complaints.” It should be noted that Straus’s “appraisal,” in its “casual” deviation from objective science, quickly put patients between a rock and a hard place: having to prove they did not have “unachievable ambition” but also that they did not suffer from neuroticism or from the “fear of movement” that a group of psychiatrists were beginning to promote at about this time. Notably, none of these claims were supported by any hard evidence. Other doctors soon jumped in with the dogma and soon the term "Yuppie Flu" made its way into the vernacular. The casual dismissal of the disease as psychosomatic also affected funding into research. In 1999 a whistleblower at the CDC William Reeves revealed that of $25 million dollars in funding from congress earmarked for ME/CFS research some $12.9 million was diverted into funding other programs and when he raised questions he faced retaliation, even if he was himself a believer in the psychosomatic theory. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1999/08/06/retaliation-alleged-at-cdc/c3ea5fdd-fc7f-4cd1-8dbf-c42e76f75c7f/) Part of the program of dismissal and trivialization involved changing the name and the definitions of the disorder. A 1987 article from CDC doctor Dr. Gary Holmes at least suggested that the CDC was aware of outbreaks and cases dating back to the 1930s and use of the term myalgic encephalomyelitis, however no one at the CDC seemed to follow up on any of this research and in 1988 the CDC would publish a new definition for the disease, one that expanded the definition of the disease to the point of meaninglessness and a new name "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" which was designed from the outset to discourage "unproven assumptions about viral origins." Again from Thirty Years of Disdain: quote:Inexplicably, given their knowledge of the disease and their role in bringing it to the attention of the CDC, Cheney, Peterson,and Bell were not listed as authors on the Holmes definition. Two physicians with extensive ME experience, NIH’s Shelokov (one of the authors of the 1959 review of ME outbreaks) and an ME physician from England, Dr. J. Gordon Parrish, were reportedly on the CDC-sponsored panel that worked on the development of Holmes. But according to Dr. Byron Hyde, a Canadian clinician who attended the meeting, Shelokov and Parrish reportedly“ refused to sign the final document and withdrew from the panel because the proposed definition and new name were too different from the ME with which they were so familiar.” Further definitions of the disease would follow, for this story the 1991 Oxford definition is the most important because that's where Dr. Simon Wessely, Dr. Michael Sharpe, and Dr. Peter White enter the picture. I'll leave it here before diving into the U.K. campaign of dismissal, the ties between the insurance industry on both sides of the Atlantic to the U.K. BPS school headed by Wessely and its effects, the eventual quiet discarding of the psychosomatic hypothesis by both the CDC and WHO which the Wessely school would attempt to undermine repeatedly, the PACE trial and its discrediting and the subsequent attempt of its authors and supporters to rebrand their treatments for Long Covid. It might take me a little while to get around to it though, I don't know when the next "good" day will roll around. Hellequin has issued a correction as of 22:08 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 18:50
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look myself in the mirror every morning to remind myself I am Max Titers Ph.D
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Mar 28, 2023 19:13
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Edit.Zantie posted:Other portion of dashboard updated late, dates' mostly no longer unknown. Zantie has issued a correction as of 05:13 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 19:39
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Good post! Hellequin posted:The data which support this hypothesis are the high attack rate in females compared with males; The thing that drives me crazy about this is that we know that women have different immune systems and are more likely to experience autoimmune disorders, perfectly well explaining the original observations you mention of it being a neuroimmune problem. I'm pretty sure that's been known for a long time, and yet they still reach for hysteria as an explanation. No matter how much they clinicize the wording, calling it things like psychosomatic, it's the same loving poo poo for all intents and purposes. I have not had nearly as hard of a time as it sounds like you have, but I did have some post-infectious problems that put me down for years and lost me at least one job. Prior to Covid. And the story is so loving familiar, as even the "nice" doctors still get condescending and just shove psych meds at you because they have no capacity to troubleshoot or diagnose problems unless The Authorities deign to give them specific instructions. So I could already see how Long Covid would likely be treated. I only hope that there's enough people affected now that it can't be ignored, but I'm not even really optimistic about that either. Society will probably just do a fascism and double down on victim blaming.
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Mar 28, 2023 19:54
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Platystemon posted:“Marburg virus” is a geographical stigmatizing name. Mmmmm burgers
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Mar 28, 2023 20:01
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I would love to see someone posit that PhysicsGirl, who has 2.7 million YouTube subscribers, is faking ME/CFS for the attention.
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Mar 28, 2023 20:17
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love how every time I have to get an ID photo taken for whatever it now comes with a non-negligible risk of permanent disability or death. cool world
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Mar 28, 2023 20:20
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