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We finished off Menace Under Otari and started in on Abomination Vaults this past weekend. My players were able to kill the dragon at the end of the fishery dungeon and are now renting that whole space to use as their base of operations. A few of the guys are interested in checking out crafting mechanics in 2e, but not enough to alter their builds for it. I think I'm going to let them level up a crafting PC along with the party that just hangs out at base working while they adventure. I really like the idea of making trips to Absalom for higher level gear. Any of the Foundry AP modules have good Absalom maps?
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Mar 27, 2023 15:27
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Enos Cabell posted:We finished off Menace Under Otari and started in on Abomination Vaults this past weekend. My players were able to kill the dragon at the end of the fishery dungeon and are now renting that whole space to use as their base of operations. A few of the guys are interested in checking out crafting mechanics in 2e, but not enough to alter their builds for it. I think I'm going to let them level up a crafting PC along with the party that just hangs out at base working while they adventure. I don't believe agents of Edgewatch has an official module. You can import official PDF's into Foundry with this module https://foundryvtt.com/packages/pf2-pdf-en-import So if you buy the Agents of Edgewatch pdf you should be able to import the maps and journal entries. edit: err maybe it's this one. https://foundryvtt.com/packages/pdftofoundry I haven't used one of these in a while. Dexo fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 15:33
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The info on Absalom is mostly in the Absalom Map Folio and the Absalom guidebook. I believe Agents just has a big generic map of Absalom without any of the shops etc marked and a whole bunch of specific sites/warehouses/cave systems where the agents-ing takes place.
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Mar 27, 2023 15:45
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I've been giving my crafting PCs a free formula every level up, subject to my approval. It's really stupid that crafting forces either me, the DM, to drop formulas, or for the players to take an inventor feat (which imposes a money tax to invent). The obsession with making crafting players pay twice, once for the formula and once for the item, is bizarre. So now they at least get some default stuff that they can make if they want, with all the normal costs and such.
Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 20:39
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I've been giving my crafting PCs a free formula every level up, subject to my approval. It's really stupid that crafting forces either me, the DM, to drop formulas, or for the players to take an inventor feat (which imposes a money tax to invent). The obsession with making crafting players pay twice, once for the formula and once for the item, is bizarre. So now they at least get some default stuff that they can make if they want, with all the normal costs and such. And 1e alchemists had all sorts of feat and discovery taxes to be able to function at about the same level as an archer or mage. Paizo just doesn't seem to like crafter classes.
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Mar 27, 2023 23:02
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Kvantum posted:And 1e alchemists had all sorts of feat and discovery taxes to be able to function at about the same level as an archer or mage. Paizo just doesn't seem to like crafter classes. Everyone had feat taxes to function in 1ed. Spell focus, point blank shot, nearly everything was optimization and min/max crunch. What did this even mean?
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Mar 27, 2023 23:30
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KPC_Mammon posted:Everyone had feat taxes to function in 1ed. Spell focus, point blank shot, nearly everything was optimization and min/max crunch. What did this even mean?
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Mar 27, 2023 23:33
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So I've just started to get into PF2 (but I'm very experienced with d20) and I joined the local pathfinder society organized play. I made myself a Wit Swashbuckler, but during play I found that, at least at lvl 1, Aid seems like a complete waste? CD 20 action just to possibly give a teammate a +1 to their attack? Needless to say my One For All feat seems completely useless. Is this how it's supposed to be? Seems a bit odd. Kinda dug the Pathfinder Society setup. The people running things seem to have a decent core group of players and it's kinda funny how meta it is to be running adventures for newbies both in game and irl at the table.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:12
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Hugoon Chavez posted:So I've just started to get into PF2 (but I'm very experienced with d20) and I joined the local pathfinder society organized play. Don't underestimate the value of a +1. That actually has a lot of value in PF 2e. Also, DC 20 will be much easier with just another level or two, I think. I haven't played a swashbuckler, though, so I don't know if there are straight up better tactical options or not.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:17
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Hugoon Chavez posted:So I've just started to get into PF2 (but I'm very experienced with d20) and I joined the local pathfinder society organized play. It's for panache too. Zombies don't care about your taunts If you're human you can get a another +4 at level 5 from cooperative nature and then it's just absurd. What else are you going to do with the action anyway
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Mar 28, 2023 16:17
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Aid is pretty mediocre at low levels and gets better at medium/high levels when you can regularly crit on it and give a +3/+4 bonus
Piell fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 16:20
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Harold Fjord posted:
I could raise my buckler after swashing! I'm a ratfolk with a bite attack, too, which would probably be easier to hit than it is to pass a DC20 skill check to my secondary attribute. But yeah, I took the feat precisely to have a panache source for combats against non humans. I guess I'll keep at it and try to not get frustrated after the fifth wasted action in a combat.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:21
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Swashbucklers are pretty bad at low levels IMO. It's "do a bunch of complicated poo poo and hang your rear end out there to be about as good as a fighter, almost". Aid is also hosed up at lower levels, with the flat DC 20 that becomes trivial at higher levels. Really wish I knew what they were thinking with that one.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:24
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Swashbucklers are pretty bad at low levels IMO. It's "do a bunch of complicated poo poo and hang your rear end out there to be about as good as a fighter, almost". Yeah, my Swashbuckler was fun but numerically underwhelming for quite a while - I felt like a fighter that moved faster but did less damage or a rogue that could take a hit but did less damage but in either case, I was better at applying frightened than anyone (I have a hobgoblin Braggart), but since I hit level 8 and grabbed Bleeding Finisher he’s suddenly become a holy terror against any opponent that has blood. It’s great and the class really finally comes online at that point - and even more so with the subclass ability at 9 - a bit later than a lot of other classes, which I think accounts for the reputation they have of being underpowered. The flavor is great though, and the payoff has been terrific. Can’t wait to take it to higher levels.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:40
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Are there any dumb rules i'm missing to prevent Ranger Far Shot from applying to throws? My flying blade wit swashbuckler wants go to strong arm sneak attacker and far shot gravity weapon. Then I'm gonna pick up investigator.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:59
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Uh.. Other than you listing feats from multiple archetypes, which would need about level 10 I think, doesn't look like there's any conflicts? e: wait that's really a ton of archetype feats, you're not gonna be able to do that until pretty high level. What's your actual base class and build goal here? Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 17:05
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I'm taking dedication feats in my class feet slot and my free dedication archetype slot. I'm not really picking up swashbuckler feats.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:19
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We didn't get free archetype at 2 but we're getting all the others. So I went wit and flying blade at 1, using human ancestry to get both. At 2 I took the rogue dedication as my class feat. I doubled up on rogue with the free archetype and the class feat at 4. So I can pick up ranger dedication at 6. My swashbuckler is a ranged single target striker using bon mot to make enemies more vulnerable to our witch or shouty aid for easy panache and attack bonuses on my friends.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:30
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OK, looking at pathbuilder, looks like you can have all those feats by level 8, but, like, unless you just completely cripple your character there's no way to also make investigator work. You'd need dex and str to do any damage, cha to make bon mot and all the other general charisma stuff work, and that doesn't really leave anything for int or wis unless you're ok taking literally zero constitution which uh. Is a choice you can make, I guess. At level 10 you'd have 16/20/12/16/10/18 STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA which mostly works? Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 17:38
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I only need 14 int to get pre-rolls on bosses. There's probably some slash buckler feats I want though
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Mar 28, 2023 17:42
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I guess investigator dedication doesn't actually let you use int for Devise a strategem, so there's no reason to boost it above 14, yeah. I don't really see the point of picking of investigator like that though.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:44
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I've been giving my crafting PCs a free formula every level up, subject to my approval. It's really stupid that crafting forces either me, the DM, to drop formulas, or for the players to take an inventor feat (which imposes a money tax to invent). The obsession with making crafting players pay twice, once for the formula and once for the item, is bizarre. So now they at least get some default stuff that they can make if they want, with all the normal costs and such. My GM just had us get a book from a dead crafter's workshop, which has all of the common magic item formulas. He gated it by saying that we only have enough experience to decipher formulas up to our level, but I'm not sure it would have been unbalanced to not gate it at all. The campaign doesn't have a ton of downtime so we still have to be economical about our crafting choices and can't just sit around for months making items at half price.
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Mar 28, 2023 17:56
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Harold Fjord posted:We didn't get free archetype at 2 but we're getting all the others. So I went wit and flying blade at 1, using human ancestry to get both. At 2 I took the rogue dedication as my class feat. I doubled up on rogue with the free archetype and the class feat at 4. So I can pick up ranger dedication at 6. I mean, this mostly works, since most low level swash feats are defensive and with flying blade you care less about that; skipping AoO at 6 feels bad in general, but, again, you’re trying to stay at range so that’s probably fine. Not grabbing Bleeding Finisher at 8 though is just asking to continue feeling ineffective when you could be turning into the best boss killer in your party. I think Investigator is just going to make the whole thing uncomfortably action taxy though - you’ll get more out of going for actual swash feats (there’s some really good ones later!) or going deeper on a dedication you already have. The panache cycling you need to do is already going to eat into your economy something fierce as is.
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Mar 28, 2023 18:21
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One for All is one of the best class feats in the game. The bonus is really good and it lets you get panache without putting yourself in danger and against mental immune enemies, which is a huge deal. I'd recommend using a reach weapon with it (scarf specifically) because you won't have actions to raise a buckler or parry. I'd also not really bother if you aren't a human. That +4 is too big of a deal to hit the panache DC. I tried a one for all build that also parried while using a rapier but it was too action starved. Reach and cooperative nature (instead of natural ambition) made the build feel significantly better, good even, well before level 3. E: Swashbuckler feats are the reason to play the class. Panache is an unreliable pain in the rear end for not much benefit. Please actually take them instead of multiclassing. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 19:03
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I really want to do a whip gymnast swashbuckler but I'm only playing this one game. I'm open to suggestions on other swashbuckler feats to use. Probably between the ranger and rogue stuff I have enough extra dice. Future archetypes are going to include acrobat. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 19:11
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KPC_Mammon posted:One for All is one of the best class feats in the game. The bonus is really good and it lets you get panache without putting yourself in danger and against mental immune enemies, which is a huge deal. If you’re doing flying blade and have one for all, 2/4/6 are all mostly defensive options that you can make a reasonable case for forgoing to grab more archetype stuff. From 8 onward, they become really hard to pass up.
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Mar 28, 2023 19:15
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Harold Fjord posted:I really want to do a whip gymnast swashbuckler but I'm only playing this one game. Important feats to grab: bleeding finisher, derring do, Perfect finisher, Deadly Grace; any of the three defensive stance “you always have a +1/2 to AC without burning an action to raise a shield/parry” feats are great, though you may need to retrain to meet prereqs; cheat death and incredible luck are great and worth retraining to grab charmed life retroactively. The riposte line of feats is great, but as a flying blade you might not be in position to trigger them enough to feel the value.
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Mar 28, 2023 19:21
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Chevy Slyme posted:If you’re doing flying blade and have one for all, 2/4/6 are all mostly defensive options that you can make a reasonable case for forgoing to grab more archetype stuff. I felt similarly until I played one. The class felt terrible until I retrained out of multiclassing / trying to do too much with my limited actions. I'd much rather take Marshall for expert Diplomacy at level 2 than Ranger/Rogue/Investigator. You only have the feats for one dedication at most. Unfortunately that means delaying Cooperative Nature until level 3 and taking Natural Ambition at level 1 for flying blade, which I don't love. Thrown weapons are going to feel awful until you get a returning one. Every turn is going to be drawing a weapon, hoping no one has cover from your single strike and trying to figure out how to get panache. Tumble through is going to leave you stuck next to enemies more often than you'd like, defeating the purpose of a thrown weapon, and without cooperative nature all for one is really unreliable. Character whose primary contribution is Bon Mot is just bad. Casters can do that for themselves and still cast a spell just fine. Edit: Sorry for being so negative. I've played KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 19:34
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Gwaihir posted:I don't really see the point of picking of investigator like that though. The version of Devise a Stratagem you get from the archetype is basically a dirty True Strike at will, if you have a different target in range you could choose to attack with a fresh roll instead. If you're just making normal at-will Strikes then you're usually better off making an extra Strike at full MAP regardless, but if you're dealing with big chonky resource-using effects like Impaling Finisher or Spellstrike then knowing ahead of time whether you should use the effect or not can be pretty useful.
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Mar 28, 2023 19:54
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One thing I should probably note is that you should remember you have Acrobatics for Tumble Through as an option. Tumble Behind is a good addition to Flying Blade-based things, since it's a way to get flat-footed at range. Even with Cooperative Nature on One for All, I've found it's so much easier to fail on panache gaining than via Tumble Through. At level 3, with Cooperative Nature, you need to hit DC 21, and with expert Diplomacy you'll have about a 30% chance of failing. Against moderate level 3 Reflex, you need to hit DC 19, so you'll have about the same chance with expert Acrobatics, and that's a decently difficult target - you're much more likely to face lower level enemies. Especially at low levels, your panache failure chance is high enough that you might struggle. And if you're using a buckler and investigator dedication you're gonna be hella action starved. My main experience is with a two-weapon rapier/whip wit swash, as a note.
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Mar 28, 2023 20:22
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KPC_Mammon posted:I felt similarly until I played one. The class felt terrible until I retrained out of multiclassing / trying to do too much with my limited actions. Oh, to be clear I’m not disputing you on the action tax problem of trying to do too much - but there are a fair number of dedications that can be used to help rather than harm the action economy that are perfectly reasonable replacements for the class feats available at 2-4. Acrobat and Marshal are two especially good examples. And yes, flying blade is… not good. But if you’re committed to it and your GM is willing to set you up with the item tax required, you can do it, I guess, and there are dumber choices you could be making. 
Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 20:47
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Vanguard Warden posted:The version of Devise a Stratagem you get from the archetype is basically a dirty True Strike at will, if you have a different target in range you could choose to attack with a fresh roll instead. If you're just making normal at-will Strikes then you're usually better off making an extra Strike at full MAP regardless, but if you're dealing with big chonky resource-using effects like Impaling Finisher or Spellstrike then knowing ahead of time whether you should use the effect or not can be pretty useful. The problem is that Swashbucklers are kind of tight on action economy and don't really have room to burn an action on devise; Especially when they eventually gain access to Perfect Finisher to accomplish more or less the same thing without the action tax. (Similarly, a Magus would rather use their archetype to just get... more castings of actual True Strike, typically.)
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Mar 28, 2023 21:29
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Chevy Slyme posted:The problem is that Swashbucklers are kind of tight on action economy and don't really have room to burn an action on devise Eh, it depends. Tumble Through is a Stride with an extra check added on, so you can do that whenever you would need to reposition anyway. If you're a braggart swashbuckler, then You're Next and Battlecry will regularly turn on your panache with no normal action cost. Chevy Slyme posted:(Similarly, a Magus would rather use their archetype to just get... more castings of actual True Strike, typically.) True Strike is generally a better option, yeah, but it's a bit more taxing to pull off optimally. Devise a Stratagem from an archetype is only two feats, while two feats in a spellcasting archetype gets you 1 slot per level up to 3rd and you need to sink more feats into it to get more. The best way to get True Strike casts as a magus is a staff anyway because it's half your level in free castings every day even before the option of burning a slot to fully charge it, but then you have to have a hand devoted to holding it all the time so you're limited to one-handed weapons. Not bad though if you're hucking Spellstrike tridents with Imaginary Weapon on them from dipping psychic. Devise a Stratagem is kind of weak in general, but it still has some niches. Other than the obvious combo of mastermind racket rogue and the Known Weaknesses feat, you can always use it to suddenly pull out a fatal d12 Big Boom Gun when you Devise a crit.
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Mar 28, 2023 22:52
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My experience with Swashbuckler is that you'll probably want Vexing Tumble at 6 if you plan on using Acrobatics to get Panache unless you have good defenses from parrying or a buckler. Failing a tumble through check as a throwing swashbuckler, immediately ending your movement, and then getting stuck out where you can be easily flanked and killed is a very real problem. Vexing Tumble only ends your movement on a crit fail and gives you more, much safer opportunities to make acrobatics checks. I also think After You is worth considering at low levels. Your odds of successfully getting Panache approach zero during boss fights where you need it the most. Having the flat bonus plus movement speed at least lets you attempt hit and run tactics when outmatched. It isn't necessary for a cooperative nature wit swashbuckler but I'd strongly consider it for everyone else. Especially a gymnast, who often doesn't even use finishers. edit: I really wish gymnasts could take strength as their primary attribute. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 23:08
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I knew it was coming because of the harrow themed adventure path. But here it is! https://paizo.com/products/btq02ebn?Pathfinder-Harrow-Deck Finally.
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Mar 29, 2023 04:51
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Jarvisi posted:I knew it was coming because of the harrow themed adventure path. But here it is! I'm a sucker for good card deck props. I really need to learn how to force card draws convincingly though.
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Mar 29, 2023 19:42
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We'll be starting Abomination Vaults soon and I'm torn between playing a wit swashbuckler (goblin?) or an animal instinct barbarian (half orc?) focused on punching and grappling. One of the other players, however, has stated she wants to play a grappling focused monk. Do two grappling characters end up stepping on each other's toes in combat or will we be an unstoppable dream team?
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Mar 30, 2023 14:28
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Government Handjob posted:We'll be starting Abomination Vaults soon and I'm torn between playing a wit swashbuckler (goblin?) or an animal instinct barbarian (half orc?) focused on punching and grappling. I would say if you want to be a grappler fighter is probably the easiest way to grab someone because of combat grab. You can grab this with the wrestler archetype too, but fighter still gets a +2 bonus to hit Once You've got someone grabbed, barbarian does more damage with it of course. And monks are just cool with it. You shouldn't have too much of a problem as long as you guys flank for each other to help each other out And of course you need to actually hit them and not just bodyslam them all day Jarvisi fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 14:34
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It's all about trips.
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Mar 30, 2023 14:41
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Jarvisi posted:And of course you need to actually hit them and not just bodyslam them all day Spoken like a true heel.
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Mar 30, 2023 14:43
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