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It's extremely hilarious that Tezzeret just barely missed the big artifact sets
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Mar 29, 2023 23:08
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Mar 29, 2023 23:14
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Apparently the Phyrexians all temporarily shutting off and getting ko'ed for a time after the leader dies happened at the end of the weatherlight saga when Yawgmoth died. It's a very old plot point, and the temp ko back then was a plot point in the history of New Capenna. The Phyrexians got bonked when Norn bit it, not when New Phyrexia finally finished squeezing into the Zhalfirin void. And Elesh Norn was the last Praetor alive at the very end, so this is just a Yawgmoth_death.v2 scenario. Presumably the baked in unity signal would have swapped to another live Praetor if Norn died before Jin or Vorniclex.
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Mar 29, 2023 23:15
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I wonder about that last point because they mentioned Norn was unlikely to want to share or pass along that power of not under her will. CharlieFoxtrot posted:Wasn't Nissa also a racist genocider before they retconned her back when they were still figuring out how to write new planeswalkers Haha never found out because was never interested enough to look into her at all. For good measure though maybe we need a chart of the planeswalkers to catalogue which ones have a genocide past. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 23:18
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Khanstant posted:They foreshadowed her return by making it seem like she almost poured all of her emotional trauma, Phyrexian feelings, and then her normal feelings and rest of herself into whatever she was doing to compleat the planet, but then they interrupted her when she's all empty and crashed the big temple she was in. I'm thinking she somehow decompleated herself in the process combined with the Phyrexian signals dying. Nahiri is great because her constant character arc is "Try to do good for the multiverse" -> "Get relentlessly poo poo on in return" -> "Absolutely lose your poo poo." -> "Try and make up for the last bad thing you did" -> "Nope, you're still going to eat poo poo for it." She starts off by getting manipulated and used by Sorin and Ugin to lock the Eldrazi on her home plane, goes to sleep to keep an eye on it with their promise that they'll show up if the Eldrazi wake up. So she wakes up and finds out the wards have cracked and the Eldrazi nearly got out. And she's all by herself to fix it because Sorin's off on Innistrad and Ugin's busy being dead. (He got better.) Oh yeah. And her plane is completely different and also confused the Eldrazi titans for their gods. Oops So she goes to find Sorin, ask what the gently caress happened and get him to come hold up his end of the bargain to come help fix the whole containment system. Sorin's response is "yeah I made my own planar defense system that probably blocked the signal, also I don't like your attitude, get hosed kid." So Nahiri attacks him out of rage, beats his rear end intending to drag him back to Zendikar to keep his word, only to get jumped by Avacyn and Sorin proceeds to lock her in the Helvault with a collection of demons for several centuries. OG Innistrad happens, Liliana shatters the Helvault and Nahiri finally gets out, goes home, only to find it in ruins from the Eldrazi escaping, and snaps, setting up a plan to repay the favor to Sorin by dragging Emrakul to his plane. She beats his rear end again, leaves him stuck in a rock to watch the carnage, and leaves. Nahiri and Sorin are eventually forced to reconcile after Bolas drags them both to Ravnica and they stop attempting to murder each other long enough to unite against the angry dragon god. So after the Bolas poo poo, she returns home to try and return it back to how it used to be.. you know, before it was a living hellhole ruled by elementals, only to find that the plane iteslf basically went "OK, boomer," rejects her, and she basically doesn't have a home anymore. Also Jace tries to mansplain and play both sides between Nahiri and Nissa and constantly makes things even worse.
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Mar 29, 2023 23:21
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Okay when people say genocide I guess I'm imagining something less like big fantasy magic attacks and power plays and spites and fights and something more close to home. She seems like an interesting character and when you put it like that it's not so hard to see some of her actions. The cruelest things seem to be casual disregard for the non-card people existing in the plane and tbh seems like you're in for dying to weird magic bullshit no matter where you live or what you do if you exist in the magic universe. I think her most evil stuff that's going to be awkward for everyone is the same other decompleated people. Especially as they keep showing that it's not so simple to just say "welp I was compleated couldn't help it" when actually there's a lot of ways people helped it. I also think if I were a normal citizen in magic id probably not want to have planeswalkers around at all. Who do these people think they are why should we suffer from them randomly getting godlike powers. This can be explored in the Prole Uprising set where vanilla cards are really good somehow.
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Mar 29, 2023 23:37
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GonSmithe posted:Endgame sucks rear end though, I would rather them wrap it up in one than do that. They at least had the balls to make the movie feel impactful with half the world losing five years of their life, killing a couple of heroes, and retiring two of their top billed characters. I think what stings here is that being turned into a Phyrexian has to date been a pretty permanent thing, I believe, in Magic's story. Feels really wish-washy to see our characters lose their hands and have their organs replaced with machine parts... only for it to be fine actually. Karn at least started as a robot so that tracked well and good enough. It isn't helped that the all powerful enemies were beaten by things like, looking at Atraxa... a building collapsing on them. It's very anti-climatic, and retrospectively makes it seem like the big bads weren't so big or bad. Worse yet, it's not really clear what if anything the heroes sacrificed for the victory. I guess Capenna lost some buildings. Dramatic. Shame too, cause Magic has really well designed villains. Norn looks sick, and a multi-planar invasion is rad stuff. They just can't stick the landing to save their lives.
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Mar 29, 2023 23:46
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I imagine the next few sets will explore the consequences for the planes
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Mar 29, 2023 23:49
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I imagine the next few sets will explore the consequences for the planes i'm sure if we'd be seeing any sort of aftermath they'd've already mentioned it coming
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Mar 29, 2023 23:50
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I think the story is pretty rad because I have the soul of a middle schooler who doodles the cool S on all my notebooks and not a terminally online curmudgeon
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Mar 30, 2023 00:07
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yeah, but you'd also expect some consequences immediately, and there don't seem to be any for the main characters. It looks like nobody permanently sacrificed anything, and the only downside is an arbitrary number of nameless faceless people who died off camera.
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Mar 30, 2023 00:22
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AngryBooch posted:https://twitter.com/TheMaverickGal/status/1641137494895755266 cool my favorite planeswalker is back
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Mar 30, 2023 00:33
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My buddy who got me into Magic has been checked out because he doesn't care about Dominaria or Phyrexians at all. When I started telling him about the story since he had last paid nonzero attention to it, he basically just laughed and said it was exactly what they tried to do with war of the spark, try to jam in so many big things at once with supposedly super stakes (in a game you know is not stopping production and in fact know the next sets a year or more in advance) just to pander and rattle a saber they won't let fall. That was weeks ago and seems like he knew exactly what he was avoiding. I wouldn't have minded more permanent deaths and a new generation of planeswalkers but I couldn't expect any company to ditch that much established IP in 2023. I still enjoyed the story and watching the Phyrexians go down. There's a ton of new things to do with the story threads all over so I'm looking forward to later in the year when we are past all the oil.
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Mar 30, 2023 00:35
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I'm surprised they killed off the Praetors. Those were some high-quality bad guys. Maybe they'll regenerate from oil and echoes.
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Mar 30, 2023 00:37
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Why is everyone thinking there aren't any consequences? Nahiri looks like she has become a being of pure stone, based purely on the stoneforger runes in the new image. She has those runes on her skin only on this card.  Ajani is going to be a cat-cyborg that is persona non grata on theros and Dominaria thanks to what he's done. Tamiyo is dead and what remains is more of an AI meant to tell all the stories she collected since she was part of the living historians. Strixhaven and its faculty is heavily ruined by the heavy fighting. One of the biggest human settlements on Ikoria was destroyed by Lukka. New Phyrexia is now compressed into a planar space that Zhalfir once occupied, and Zhalfir is now stretched out to fill the spot new Phyrexia occupied. Castle Locthwains forces were sealed underground and put to sleep after they and Ayara were phyrexianized. Do you guys not pay attention to the characters or settings?
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Mar 30, 2023 01:40
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Sylvian Wastes posted:Do you guys not pay attention to the characters or settings? No lol
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Mar 30, 2023 01:52
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I just realized that Incubate is gonna make Doubling Season spike to like $200+ lmaooooo
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Mar 30, 2023 01:53
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The story has been really, incredibly bad for like, ever, but they do a really good job of only putting stuff on the cards that makes it seem like the story is cool and good
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Mar 30, 2023 01:56
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precision posted:The story has been really, incredibly bad for like, ever, but they do a really good job of only putting stuff on the cards that makes it seem like the story is cool and good The barest plot beats - the stuff that makes it onto cards - are usually very solid, but all the connective tissue is, at best, fine.
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Mar 30, 2023 02:26
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Sylvian Wastes posted:Do you guys not pay attention to the characters or settings? The consequences don't evoke any weight or seriousness because they're only going to stick as long as they are perceived to be marketable. If Ajani suddenly becomes a player favorite or shows crossover appeal with new audiences they will just roll everything back to try and keep that attention or turn everyone else into cyborg cat people for a set or two to see if that brings in more money or attention. None of which should be surprising to anyone but it kind of puts a damper on things even for people who enjoy the lore. precision posted:The story has been really, incredibly bad for like, ever, but they do a really good job of only putting stuff on the cards that makes it seem like the story is cool and good The story actually rules and has been doing multiverse/shared universe stuff in an interesting way before it caught on as the big thing in wider media but unfortunately the story can never escape being subordinate to profit motive so it's potential will never be fully realized.
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Mar 30, 2023 02:28
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Mat Cauthon posted:The consequences don't evoke any weight or seriousness because they're only going to stick as long as they are perceived to be marketable. If Ajani suddenly becomes a player favorite or shows crossover appeal with new audiences they will just roll everything back to try and keep that attention or turn everyone else into cyborg cat people for a set or two to see if that brings in more money or attention. So why even whine about the story if you think nothing about it matters as long as its part of marketing? Just wait for aftermath to see the permanent changes.
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Mar 30, 2023 02:53
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What was the zenith of Magic storytelling? Is there a point where it fell off or was it always uneven?
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Mar 30, 2023 03:03
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Khanstant posted:What was the zenith of Magic storytelling? Is there a point where it fell off or was it always uneven? When Jeff Grubb was writing the books. Ice Age Cycle and Brothers War are all solid fantasy books even though they're light. Some of the other authors around that time also wrote ok, but a lot of them very much did not, a ton of those books are unreadable trash. Scott McGough did some fun books later on with Legends Cycle into the Kamigawa novels, but again these are mostly just high school YA novel quality.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:08
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I dunno, but the generally accepted nadir is one of the war of the spark books that everyone hates
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Mar 30, 2023 03:09
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It would be really cool if they commissioned some in-canon fiction that fleshed out worlds they don't have any intention of revisiting any time soon. Like, give me some stories about political intrigue on Fiora, or what's up with the new paradigms on Tarkir or Alara or something.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:09
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:I dunno, but the generally accepted nadir is one of the war of the spark books that everyone hates The writing in them all seems to be permanently stuck at "RA Salvatore, workmanlike description". It feels like they don't let the writers show any actual style
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Mar 30, 2023 03:20
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Cactrot posted:Even Infinity war, the thing they are cribbing directly from was split into two parts but they are unwilling to do the same. They've got a mechanism for doing serialized storytelling baked into their product releases that they've forgotten how to use because every set has to do something different from the last one every time now. The story is split into two parts, All will be One is literally the Infinity War to March of the Machines Endgame. They did in fact use two sets to tell this story.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:The story is split into two parts, All will be One is literally the Infinity War to March of the Machines Endgame. They did in fact use two sets to tell this story. I think we wanted some more Everyone Is Here! action.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:23
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I think we wanted some more Everyone Is Here! action. Oh yeah I'm not saying March is particularly well written here. What people seem to have wanted is more of a struggle rather than everyone is here though.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:27
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whydirt posted:I think the story is pretty rad because I have the soul of a middle schooler who doodles the cool S on all my notebooks and not a terminally online curmudgeon
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Mar 30, 2023 03:27
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The original ravnica trilogy wasn't bad, even if it was about a cop. Actually, most things about Ravnica are good, except the war of the spark books, which are somehow the worst. Not sure how they dropped the ball so bad. It would have been cool to split the invasion into 2 sets. Like, the start of the invasion, early phyrexian victories, maybe showing which planes were able to respond faster to the invasion vs which named characters get cut down in the first wave, or died evacuating people or organizing the defense. Then the second set could be the tide turning, the angels going to all the other planes, phyrexians pulling out all the stops, heroic sacrifices to finally win the war. I just think it would show what happened better A Moose fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 03:28
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A Moose posted:The original ravnica trilogy wasn't bad, even if it was about a cop. Actually, most things about Ravnica are good, except the war of the spark books, which are somehow the worst Ah yeah I actually forgot about those, they are fun. Argus Kos buddy cop.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:30
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Khanstant posted:What was the zenith of Magic storytelling? Is there a point where it fell off or was it always uneven? Weatherlight to Apocalypse
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Mar 30, 2023 03:47
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The first Mirrodin novel is the only good Magic novel
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Mar 30, 2023 04:01
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PlasticAutomaton posted:So Nahiri attacks him out of rage, beats his rear end intending to drag him back to Zendikar to keep his word, only to get jumped by Avacyn and Sorin proceeds to lock her in the Helvault with a collection of demons for several centuries. And then WotC doesn't even let her have that anymore. When they did Dominaria block and wanted Teferi around they changed the 1,500 time gap between Time Spiral block and present day to like 5 years tops. So she goes on a genocidal rage because she was spend a year in time out.
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Mar 30, 2023 04:04
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Froghammer posted:The first Mirrodin novel is the only good Magic novel Fifth Dawn, however, is one of the absolute worst.
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Mar 30, 2023 04:10
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Silhouette posted:Weatherlight to Apocalypse I don’t know if this is actually true, but it FEELS true based on my memories of being 14.
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Mar 30, 2023 04:13
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:And then WotC doesn't even let her have that anymore. When they did Dominaria block and wanted Teferi around they changed the 1,500 time gap between Time Spiral block and present day to like 5 years tops. So she goes on a genocidal rage because she was spend a year in time out. this happened pre time spiral/mending, she was in there for 6000 years (roughly) edit: also teferi has been alive for literally several hundred years. there was literally enough time between the mending and war of the spark for his wife to die of old age and his daughter to become a full adult (and then some), so like. thats just factually incorrect, too Mix. fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 04:27
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Teferi was hundreds of years old before he became a Planeswalker
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Mar 30, 2023 04:36
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Yeah, Teferi, Jhoira and Jodah are all basically immortal because of time shenanigans during the second phyrexian invasion which was centuries in the past
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Mar 30, 2023 04:54
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