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adebisi lives posted:Ukraine had great success in Kharkiv, and pushed Russia out of Kherson after it was clear it wasn't tenable to defend. Both of those were before Russia mobilized more manpower and were exceptions to the glacial pace both sides have made the majority of the war. Things can always change but right now it doesn't seem like throwing a bunch of tanks at the front will be a gamechanger. Kherson and Kharkiv were successful after Russia's Donbass offensive had culminated. Russia exhausted its manpower and equipment, and Ukraine had reserve brigades that were ready and equipped with largely Western equipment. It sounds a lot like the current situation, honestly. Bakhmut and Vuhledar instead of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, with the added problem that Russia culminated before managing to take the cities this time. Not saying that a successful counter-offensive is guaranteed, but this December-March have looked a lot like April-August of last year. I'm not sure what the manpower and equipment situation is like on the Russian side, but Ukraine has more going for it than "throwing a bunch of tanks at the front".
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Mar 30, 2023 01:40
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Pablo Bluth posted:Even twitter feels like it's slowed down in terms of the amount of footage leaking out. It's no longer a constant stream showing yet another Russian tank turret being tossed. The Oryx data is actually showing more destroyed vehicles per day on social media the last 2 months than during the bloody Russian offensive last summer. So it is less than the Kharkov offensive, but still really intense fighting going on. Probably fewer exciting turret toss videos just because tanks are becoming scarce enough that the Russians aren't risking them close enough to enemy lines for videos like that to be filmed.
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Mar 30, 2023 01:58
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Storkrasch posted:Not saying that a successful counter-offensive is guaranteed, but this December-March have looked a lot like April-August of last year. I'm not sure what the manpower and equipment situation is like on the Russian side, but Ukraine has more going for it than "throwing a bunch of tanks at the front". Or "Maybe there's some more convicts somewhere we can use"
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Mar 30, 2023 02:30
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Genuine question: when did “the Ukraine” become a problematic phrase? Thought it was like The Gambia, The Netherlands? Or was it something that was initially okay but then some pro Russian group/Russia itself turn into a term of dehumanization?
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Mar 30, 2023 02:33
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buglord posted:Genuine question: when did “the Ukraine” become a problematic phrase? Thought it was like The Gambia, The Netherlands? Or was it something that was initially okay but then some pro Russian group/Russia itself turn into a term of dehumanization? After independence. "The Ukraine" refers to the Ukraine region of the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire, etc. The country itself is called Ukraine. It mirrors a similar process in Russian where в Украине makes it sound like Ukraine is a country, and на Украине makes it sound like a region. I guess it's not controversial for the Netherlands or the Gambia (or the United States of America) because nobody is trying to deny those countries their independence on that basis. Think e.g. "the south", "the midwest", "the donbass" vs "Canada" or "Mexico".
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Mar 30, 2023 02:40
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buglord posted:Genuine question: when did “the Ukraine” become a problematic phrase? Thought it was like The Gambia, The Netherlands? Or was it something that was initially okay but then some pro Russian group/Russia itself turn into a term of dehumanization? It was never okay, and it’s a decades old thing dating back to Soviet Union. It’s a translation of a Russian language preposition twist implying that Ukraine is a peripheral territory of Russia, rather than a country. Edit: Storkrasch has a point though that politically the issue, for obvious reasons, was forced only upon independence. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 02:43
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an analogue for the US crowd is the similarity of the republican effort of labeling their opposition the "Democrat Party" instead of "The Democratic Party" Another part of what makes it circumstantially problematic is how it then gets used by supporters of russian nationalism in ways which eventually cause you to have to do things like moderate it out of a space, no matter the claims of oversensitivity
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Mar 30, 2023 02:49
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This thread stopped getting news posted because posters were getting probated for posting news posts. And jokes. Or other items. It is and was hard if not impossible to tell. The GBS thread is more…useful. I’d say more but… well you know what happens.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:20
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cinci zoo sniper posted:if we agree beforehand that your feedback targets specific rules, and that under no circumstance this thread will be getting more lax enforcement of posting My issue here is the most important and worthwhile feedback is essentially worthless then. There are a lot of good rules to prevent threadshitting, concern trolling, pointless topics (clancychat) et al. But I feel the overly draconian rules on top of this aspect is merely done as an over-sensitive response to placate loud, aggressive, and unhinged posters who merely retreat to their hugbox rather than get debated or discuss why their arguments have flaws. The idea that posting censored or bloodless combat videos in a place of discussion will emotionally damage someone or not take the war more seriously is legitimately absurd in the greatest sense. I simply went to another forum and watched the combat video that is getting discussion here. I saw it on the evening news on television at one point in the past. Somehow, I am fine. I'm not emotionally numb to the fact it's a war (and one Russia has every reason to call it quits on) and people are dying and that is really sad. It's been years since my secondary in psychology and I'm not a licensed doctor but I'm pretty sure this isn't how you get brain poisoned at all. It's literally the same mentality as blaming video games for school shootings. Sure- if a video game is released and teaches you step by step how to do a school shooting and explicitly or through obvious innuendo tells the audience to buy Ron Paul's gold and then KILL THEIR PARENTS that would be one thing. Left clicking 8-bit demons in Doom (1993) is entirely different. An example that would brain poison someone is repeated views of Wagner execution propaganda videos. Or likewise if Ukrainians consistently put out their own execution videos and used it to glorify themselves, as an example. Ask yourself this- have you seen the video where the Nashville shooter was killed? Did this numb your psychological response or absolute outrage to the fact children were murdered? I'm not having any problems. If you are, it's great you're reading this because through me you get to ask yourself why. Because this is a safe space of discussion and introspection. Draconian rules simply to placate even more unhinged and angry posters isn't great. I don't really care that admins are deciding it and "shrug" nothing can be done!! I think it's all legitimately good feedback. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 03:41
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I feel like a lot of people are coming in swinging about a probe that didn't happen. The original post was deemed to not add much to the discussion but the poster wasn't probed. The gross "wow this combat footage is EPIC" responses did. You can call me emotionally over sensitive because I don't want to watch a squad of guys get killed up close or whatever but I still don't see what it adds to the discussion of the war. Popete fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 04:05
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Personally no I did not watch the video of the Nashville shooter getting killed because I do not really want to watch a video of someone being violently killed regardless of the context in which it appears. I am fine with having the choice to opt in or opt out of it. Autoplaying the video was a bigger issue to me, to be honest. I do not see any further point in litigating this rule; anyone who wants to see that kind of thing knows where to find it anyway. It doesn't need to be posted here too. Even when it was more common to see those kinds of videos posted here, I still didn't watch many of them because it wasn't something I was interested in seeing. A tank exploding is dead people inside, not just a vehicle, and not something I want to see in high definition even if I intellectually know they are invaders and Ukraine is defending itself.
HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 04:18
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Comstar posted:This thread stopped getting news posted because posters were getting probated for posting news posts. And jokes. Or other items. It is and was hard if not impossible to tell. The GBS thread is more…useful. I appreciate that there's a thread that has higher standards of newsworthiness and veracity and also that there is a thread for posting stupid bullshit rumors. They're good for different things.
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Mar 30, 2023 04:26
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I should clarify that plenty of folks have no interest in watching these videos, and honestly for most of them I'm actually one of them. I shouldn't have simply blamed our more angry posters alone, that was a complete lack of nuance on my part. But I think outright thread bans to newsworthy or videos of interest (that isn't objectified or glamorize) just stifles actual discussion and we end up discussing the reaction to that. Eventually probes start getting handed out and it pushes people away rather than you know. Discussing what's going on. And then naturally letting the topic move ahead. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 04:32
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I do feel like the bar for this thread is just a tad high. I personally like seeing news and updates even if it isn't the sort of news that would necessarily provoke discussion. The nth financial times update about sanctions isn't something I have anything to say about, but I still find it interesting to read. I don't think adding a sentence of commentary is necessarily a high bar to clear, but I think the idea (granted mostly from cinci's own complaining about the lack of engagement his article dumps got) that content has to drive discussion to be worth posting is a bad one for a current events topic.
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Mar 30, 2023 05:03
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Storkrasch posted:After independence. "The Ukraine" refers to the Ukraine region of the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire, etc. The country itself is called Ukraine. It mirrors a similar process in Russian where в Украине makes it sound like Ukraine is a country, and на Украине makes it sound like a region. I guess it's not controversial for the Netherlands or the Gambia (or the United States of America) because nobody is trying to deny those countries their independence on that basis. Think e.g. "the south", "the midwest", "the donbass" vs "Canada" or "Mexico". cinci zoo sniper posted:It was never okay, and it’s a decades old thing dating back to Soviet Union. It’s a translation of a Russian language preposition twist implying that Ukraine is a peripheral territory of Russia, rather than a country. Thanks for the context!
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Mar 30, 2023 05:16
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Comstar posted:This thread stopped getting news posted because posters were getting probated for posting news posts. And jokes. Or other items. It is and was hard if not impossible to tell. The GBS thread is more…useful. The only probes I've seen for newsposts were for failing to label NMS stuff. What are you talking about?
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Mar 30, 2023 05:47
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I've been frustrated with some of the modding in the thread, mostly because sometimes I don't know what people are actually getting probated for. That said, the thing about the war footage is, imo, that even posting it at all encourages people to talk about the footage in a way that's not interesting or good for the thread. The current situation is an example, footage (arguably newsworthy) was posted along with an interview, but no one was talking about the interview, but instead, "balls of steel" and "epic fites", exactly the sort of thing that this thread does not need.
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Mar 30, 2023 09:48
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Umbreon posted:The only probes I've seen for newsposts were for failing to label NMS stuff. What are you talking about?
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Mar 30, 2023 09:51
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-detains-us-journalist-espionage-wall-street-journal-rcna77354 russia has detained wall street journal reporter Evan Gershkovich for "espionage in the interests of the American government," and "collecting information constituting a state secret about the activities of one of the enterprises of the russian military-industrial complex" earlier had been an involved author on a story titled "russia’s economy is starting to come undone"
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Mar 30, 2023 10:06
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I’m kind of on the fence here. I mostly lurk, because I usually don’t feel knowledgeable enough to contribute and I prefer(red) the GBS thread, at least on days it’s not talking about horse cum all the time. Both the D&D and GBS threads have, at times, been excellent sources for curated/vetted digests of Twitter and Telegram info that I cannot realistically keep up with myself due to real life responsibilities. I’d love for that to come back, but right now, I don’t think either of these threads provide that. Still somewhat better than Twitter. For now, at least. I don’t particularly care for NMS material or combat footage and I appreciate the mod/IK efforts to comply with the admin rules, but I do feel that the overall compliance burden on the Ukraine threads is intentional and aimed at driving them out entirely.
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Mar 30, 2023 10:10
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Meanwhile, FT has a pretty long article about Ukraine's grain industry: Saving Ukraine’s economy: the grain giant fighting for survival And, at the same time: Ukraine grain glut hits agribusiness in neighbouring countries A few excerpts: quote:After Russia invaded Ukraine last year, the EU scrapped customs duties and quotas on Ukrainian grain imports and rerouted some of the shipments Russia was blocking in Black Sea ports via Polish and Romanian roads and railway networks. But the cheap Ukrainian grain suddenly available in those markets has undercut local producers. a podcast for cats posted:I don’t particularly care for NMS material or combat footage and I appreciate the mod/IK efforts to comply with the admin rules, but I do feel that the overall compliance burden on the Ukraine threads is intentional and aimed at driving them out entirely. That is my impression as well.
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Mar 30, 2023 10:25
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So if I understood right, the policy is now that not even an NMS is sufficient, but that any video showing violence of any kind is now a probation with link removed? That is... not a good policy. Make them not hotlinks if people are unable to help themselves from going to a war thread after a year but lose their mind if they see any images of war. It seems weird to have a blanket ban site-wide that a video of a school shooting by a psychopath in Nashville is equivalent to seeing aerial footage of Bakhmut. For thread material, Turkey votes on Finland joining NATO today, and Hungary voted for Finland to join a couple days ago (didn't see it mentioned here) by 182 in favor to 6 against ( https://www.politico.eu/article/hun...sh%20accession. ). Turkey will I'm sure have similar margins, since it already has Erdogan's blessing, so now Finland can now formally join NATO, presumably at the next NATO summit in Vilnius on 11-12 July? E: Cinci, go get yourself a press pass for us. Or are you Latvian? I'm not trying to be a dick on getting the two mixed up intentionally, I genuinely can't remember, drat. Saladman fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 11:27
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Comstar posted:This thread stopped getting news posted because posters were getting probated for posting news posts. Do you have a single example of this, or is it this an accusation like the time when you personally figured out that I'm actually running the thread with a pro-Russian agenda? mobby_6kl posted:Someone got actually banned earlier for posting a video that I'm pretty sure was marked NMS. I've gotten more probes here than in the rest of SA combined... not complaining, just pointing out the rules are pretty strict. They literally posted a video of a soldier committing suicide, with a comment “maybe videos like these should get posted everywhere on SA”. The ban had nothing to do with thread-specific rules. Nelson Mandingo posted:My issue here is the most important and worthwhile feedback is essentially worthless then. There are a lot of good rules to prevent threadshitting, concern trolling, pointless topics (clancychat) et al. But I feel the overly draconian rules on top of this aspect is merely done as an over-sensitive response to placate loud, aggressive, and unhinged posters who merely retreat to their hugbox rather than get debated or discuss why their arguments have flaws. I feel that you're confusing the thread rules (label  posts with emoji) with the admin rules (mandatory minimum bans for a subset of posts. What I was saying in the quote is that I am not reviewing the thread rules for tagging, since I happen to be the unhinged poster who wants them. Admin-imposed rules I'm obviously not placed to review. Hence, if you go on another meta rant to poo poo on other posters while still not providing any actionable feedback for this thread, I will send you into orbit. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 11:34
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I like the modding rules and the thread atmosphere they create. Worst case scenario you catch a sixer who cares
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Mar 30, 2023 11:42
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My only issue with the thread modding is that sometimes people catch a minor probe for making jokes, but as aphid says, gently caress it, it's a sixer, who cares.
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Mar 30, 2023 11:47
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Do you have a single example of this, or is it this an accusation like the time when you personally figured out that I'm actually running the thread with a pro-Russian agenda? They don't appear to be saying anything whatsoever about a pro-russian agenda but rather are suggesting that the moderation of the thread is overbearing and discouraging to discussion, which, yeah, I would second Gravitas Shortfall posted:My only issue with the thread modding is that sometimes people catch a minor probe for making jokes, but as aphid says, gently caress it, it's a sixer, who cares. yeah this too Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 11:49
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Saladman posted:For thread material, Turkey votes on Finland joining NATO today, and Hungary voted for Finland to join a couple days ago (didn't see it mentioned here) by 182 in favor to 6 against ( https://www.politico.eu/article/hun...sh%20accession. ). Turkey will I'm sure have similar margins, since it already has Erdogan's blessing, so now Finland can now formally join NATO, presumably at the next NATO summit in Vilnius on 11-12 July? I think Turkey voting in favour of Finland and Sweden's accession of NATO is also a reason why he invited Putin - he really wants to keep projecting this image of neutrality (and/or continuing to keep both sides happy).
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Mar 30, 2023 11:54
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aphid_licker posted:I like the modding rules and the thread atmosphere they create. Worst case scenario you catch a sixer who cares
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Mar 30, 2023 12:07
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WarpedLichen posted:I do feel like the bar for this thread is just a tad high. I personally like seeing news and updates even if it isn't the sort of news that would necessarily provoke discussion. The nth financial times update about sanctions isn't something I have anything to say about, but I still find it interesting to read. WarpedLichen posted:I don't think adding a sentence of commentary is necessarily a high bar to clear, but I think the idea (granted mostly from cinci's own complaining about the lack of engagement his article dumps got) that content has to drive discussion to be worth posting is a bad one for a current events topic.
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Mar 30, 2023 12:09
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Herstory Begins Now posted:They don't appear to be saying anything whatsoever about a pro-russian agenda but rather are suggesting that the moderation of the thread is overbearing and discouraging to discussion, which, yeah, I would second I'm not saying that they're accusing me of pro-Russian agenda in that post, just that this poster has historically made a series of posts that have a tenuous connection with the observed reality, e.g., my pro-Russian agenda some time ago, or the claim that I probate people for posting news. If you're going to throw down a claim like that, you'll have to put up some evidence for it as well. If you want to say that moderation feels overbearing and discouraging discussion, you can type all of that out without typing “posting news is probatable offence”.
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Mar 30, 2023 12:12
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Do you have a single example of this The ‘Search this thread’ text box does not return all results. For example this doesn’t show up on a search for ‘probation’ though other probation posts on the same date do. The Question IRL posted:Someone has probably posted it, but the ICC has issued a warrant for Putin. Reason: Read the thread before posting in it. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours. This might have effect of discouraging people from posting imo. Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 12:17
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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I've been frustrated with some of the modding in the thread, mostly because sometimes I don't know what people are actually getting probated for. If you have an example of a probation you don't understand, you can link it and we can discuss it while this runs. a podcast for cats posted:I’m kind of on the fence here. I mostly lurk, because I usually don’t feel knowledgeable enough to contribute and I prefer(red) the GBS thread, at least on days it’s not talking about horse cum all the time. Both the D&D and GBS threads have, at times, been excellent sources for curated/vetted digests of Twitter and Telegram info that I cannot realistically keep up with myself due to real life responsibilities. Saladman posted:So if I understood right, the policy is now that not even an NMS is sufficient, but that any video showing violence of any kind is now a probation with link removed? That is... not a good policy. Make them not hotlinks if people are unable to help themselves from going to a war thread after a year but lose their mind if they see any images of war. It seems weird to have a blanket ban site-wide that a video of a school shooting by a psychopath in Nashville is equivalent to seeing aerial footage of Bakhmut.
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Mar 30, 2023 12:22
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Saladman posted:For thread material, Turkey votes on Finland joining NATO today, and Hungary voted for Finland to join a couple days ago (didn't see it mentioned here) by 182 in favor to 6 against ( https://www.politico.eu/article/hun...sh%20accession. ). Turkey will I'm sure have similar margins, since it already has Erdogan's blessing, so now Finland can now formally join NATO, presumably at the next NATO summit in Vilnius on 11-12 July? Actually it's fully possible that Finland becomes a NATO member within a week or so, assuming nobody involved drags their feet delivering their paperwork. After Hungary and Turkey have delivered their acceptance letters to the US State Department, NATO will send Finland an invitation letter, and Finland sends back an acceptance letter. When this final letter reaches the US State Dept., Finland officially becomes a full NATO member immediately. Zat fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 12:23
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Rapulum_Dei posted:The ‘Search this thread’ text box does not return all results. For example this doesn’t show up on a search for ‘probation’ though other probation posts on the same date do. Point taken that the probation may discourage the poster, that I don't disagree with. However, the reason why I probated them is two posts above: Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Largely symbolic, I'm sure, but ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin: I seldom probate for reposts of stuff from like the previous page, even if they are unnecessary spam and show overt disregard for the conversation in thread, but for something literally 2 posts above I will take issue.
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Mar 30, 2023 12:28
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a podcast for cats posted:I don’t particularly care for NMS material or combat footage and I appreciate the mod/IK efforts to comply with the admin rules, but I do feel that the overall compliance burden on the Ukraine threads is intentional and aimed at driving them out entirely. Antigravitas posted:That is my impression as well. I mean, this is not the most appropriate for me to say as a mod, but no one here is 13 and blind. While I think there are at least some rational admin interests at play, e.g., the CoolZone thread with its shooter, and while detailed motivations have not been communicated to moderators at all, I can also say that there's enough circumstantial evidence for me to speculate about names of at least two specific admins who would be happy to see all Ukraine threads closed. If this is a sufficiently precise speculation, then one could argue that these admins may now be making the most of the aftermath of their own team's negligence regarding ensuring timely and orderly oversight of the moderation of the GBS thread about the war, and a few other corners of this website. Until the final details are made, and, preferably, the underpinning rationale revealed, I'll wait, however. Different options are possible, ranging from largely business as usual to “cinci, we demand that you ban goons who post articles with visual evidence from Bucha”, and it would be premature to hash it all out before specifics are available. This is the more frank context of it, but I can only stress that here we're talking about what's possible within this thread. I have no interest in having this thread talk about admins at length, and I will actively shoot down any serious attempts to start poo poo in that direction in this thread or elsewhere in D&D. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 13:00
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https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000145047246/selenskyj-rede-fpoe-verlaesst-geschlossen-den-saal-zahlreiche-leere-plaetze Machine translation proofread by me, as usual. quote:Selenskyj speech: FPÖ leaves the hall in unison, numerous empty seats for the SPÖ It's fascinating how bad machine translation is at Austrian German. I had to heavily redact a bunch of sentences, and I doubt I found them all. Worse still, it replaces – with -, which is a crime. There are some weird constructions in there because it doesn't translate the Konjuntiv I and II into subjunctive clauses while preserving the meaning, and I'm not going to fix all of those. With that aside, the FPÖ are basically like the German AfD, except they are frequently in government.
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Mar 30, 2023 13:16
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aphid_licker posted:I like the modding rules and the thread atmosphere they create. Worst case scenario you catch a sixer who cares I like the proposed changes to the rules, especially about writing at least a very small amount with regards to the content of an article linked.
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Mar 30, 2023 13:26
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At minimum, if literally all links, even properly tagged, to NWS and NMS content are banned, this rule should be rewrittenquote:Discussing material you won't post to the thread is discouraged. Anything more than a passing reference to something unspecified, especially something fresh or sensationalist, is actively detrimental to the thread. But generally speaking, I think this discussion should be happening in a dedicated SAD thread, as the new rule will affect not just this thread, but all threads about ongoing military conflicts/protests/etc.
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Mar 30, 2023 13:34
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Saladman posted:For thread material, Turkey votes on Finland joining NATO today, and Hungary voted for Finland to join a couple days ago (didn't see it mentioned here) by 182 in favor to 6 against ( https://www.politico.eu/article/hun...sh%20accession. ). Turkey will I'm sure have similar margins, since it already has Erdogan's blessing, so now Finland can now formally join NATO, presumably at the next NATO summit in Vilnius on 11-12 July? Motherfucker. 
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Mar 30, 2023 13:35
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Paladinus posted:But generally speaking, I think this discussion should be happening in a dedicated SAD thread, as the new rule will affect not just this thread, but all threads about ongoing military conflicts/protests/etc. You're correct in that this is not the appropriate thread to litigate a site-wide rule, and I think that it is plausible for you to see a discussion about it that you expect. While it depends on what version of the rule we get in the end, I think that the more plausible range of outcomes could affect any visual imagery where you could see a person getting severly hurt, tortured, dying, killed, or simply being dead already. Which could, depending on the precise wording, impact not only the war threads, but also TFR/GIP as subforums, all threads that post dash cams or OSHA stuff, all threads about American news, history threads discussing WW2 or whatever, sports accidents, and undoubtedly more things that I'm not immediately recalling. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 13:43
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