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lil poopendorfer posted:If this is about the campaign finance stuff, hasn’t the statute of limitations long since passed? It would have had to have taken place in 2016, and I had read that the statute of limitations for those things is 3-5 years Not very familiar with NY law but some states have statues of limitations that pause while you are out of said state.
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Mar 31, 2023 12:58
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I mean I think at worst, based on the evidence, the FBI is downplaying that Paddock might have had white supremacy tendencies.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:03
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CuddleCryptid posted:This is good but a part of me has to go "really? The first one?" Aside from the obvious—rich and powerful people never face consequences—criminally prosecuting a head of state has serious knock-on effects. Up to this point, we've relied on term limits to flush the worst offenders into irrelevance rather than risk the status quo by going after them. Add it to the already long list of social taboos Trump's trampled.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:13
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I think the general timeline is going to go like this Next week: Trump is formally arraigned on those 30+ business crimes dealing with bank fraud, tax fraud and tax evasion. Stormy Daniel's hush payments will be lumped into the tax fraud portion. Trump will need to surrender his passport and post a bond. Next 6-9 months: Various pre-trial hearings, complaints and appeals of process. This could easily get stretched out for a year 9-12 months from now: Trial begins, probably lasting a month. 12-14 months from now: Trump will withdraw during the primaries after anemic results, blaming the various trials and not his general unpopularity with the republican base. 12-14 months from now: Trump convicted on portion of charges. 1-3 years from now: Various appeals are filed, his lawyers doing their best to stall and delay. After all the appeals are exhausted, Trump will finally face 'jail time'. However, citing his age and his extraordinary circumstances, Trump's lawyers successfully argue for home confinement in his apartment in Trump Tower. Trump also has to pay millions in fines to NY state. If however at any time between now and the time Trump 'serves' time he dies, all cases are vacated and he will be considered innocent of all crimes. Yes, even if he's convicted and in the middle of the appeals process he would be considered innocent.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:No. Once you are arraigned on a charge you have a constitutional right that you must be read the list of charges against you. They will be entered into the record at the point. Star chamber trials were one of the specifically appalling British practices the founders(and everyone who came after they had happened, being also effectively banned in the magna carta) thought was backwards. Basically if it's a specific early constitutional right either colonial administration, the British, or European courts had been doing it in a way they really didn't like.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:24
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But also other indictments will come in so there'll be multiple overlapping trial processes as well as the election, somehow
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Mar 31, 2023 13:25
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Cimber posted:I think the general timeline is going to go like this I'm a living embodiment of Negatron Prime on these things which I freely admit. Trump's entire legal strategy for decades has been "gently caress you, no" on every single last possible piece of paperwork, punctuation, testimony, and deadline, which then gets seventeen motions filed when it is supposed to happen and three appeals when it happens anyway. I don't see it only lasting 1-3 years. Trump has money, and that's what the courts respect.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:40
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I don't know how they can impanel a jury that won't hang on one juror who refuses to convict their god-king. Even in Manhattan.
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Mar 31, 2023 14:16
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bird food bathtub posted:I'm a living embodiment of Negatron Prime on these things which I freely admit. Trump's entire legal strategy for decades has been "gently caress you, no" on every single last possible piece of paperwork, punctuation, testimony, and deadline, which then gets seventeen motions filed when it is supposed to happen and three appeals when it happens anyway. I don't see it only lasting 1-3 years. Trump has money, and that's what the courts respect. I really do think the courts are wise to this by now and are going to have a very low tolerance for delay tactics. I would not be surprised that because he's running for president they expedite his case. Out of fairness you know.
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Mar 31, 2023 14:42
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The New York Young Republicans just put out an absolutely bonkers statement about Trump's indictment and is vowing to organize protests outside of the courthouse next week.quote:Today, our nation careens toward tyranny at an unprecedented pace. An impudent cabal of radical figures abandons all propriety in their dogged attacks on President Donald J. Trump. We have taken a decisive step away from the values that define our national character. https://nyyrc.com/statements/statement-on-president-trumps-indictment/
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Mar 31, 2023 14:45
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I wonder if all the poo poo Trump posts to social media, such as the picture he posted implying he would bash Bragg's head in and posts about mass violence by his supporters are going to force the courts to issue a gag order on him?
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Mar 31, 2023 14:47
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Soulbonding with Donald John Trump
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Mar 31, 2023 14:47
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lil poopendorfer posted:Losing one’s temper is quite different from planning and executing the largest mass shooting—by a considerable margin—in US history. It’s not like this guy got denied a comped room and then immediately pulled an AR15 out at the hotel front desk. Are you saying you believe the attack was planned by someone else?
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Mar 31, 2023 14:50
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PostNouveau posted:I don't know how they can impanel a jury that won't hang on one juror who refuses to convict their god-king. Even in Manhattan. This is my concern as well.
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Mar 31, 2023 14:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The New York Young Republicans just put out an absolutely bonkers statement about Trump's indictment and is vowing to organize protests outside of the courthouse next week. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between this and a cult. Like the language being used is pretty much 1:1
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Mar 31, 2023 14:52
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Are you saying you believe the attack was planned by someone else? i read it as saying that the trail of evidence is unsatisfying, so to reach an acceptable narrative conclusion it is preferable to just make something up and believe that instead humans crave closure and we don't always get it. sometimes we just don't have enough information to determine why something happened. might as well just imagine things at that point if it brings us some kind of peace Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The New York Young Republicans just put out an absolutely bonkers statement about Trump's indictment and is vowing to organize protests outside of the courthouse next week. remembering today how dry these patriots kept their powder between 2008-2016 and how very little resulted from it Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 14:54
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Aegis posted:This is my concern as well. Just as a percentage game, right? In Manhattan, it was 86% Biden, 12% Trump. I think you can be optimistic and say only half the Trump voters are going to be dead-ender enough to refuse to convict under any circumstance. I don't know stats well, but I don't think it's ironclad for winning that gamble 12 times in a row. If you're the Manhattan DA, you're probably hoping all these people will be unable to keep their traps shut and will proudly announce they stand with the real President Donald Trump and will never convict and get themselves tossed from the pool.
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Mar 31, 2023 14:59
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PostNouveau posted:Just as a percentage game, right? In Manhattan, it was 86% Biden, 12% Trump. I think you can be optimistic and say only half the Trump voters are going to be dead-ender enough to refuse to convict under any circumstance. I don't know stats well, but I don't think it's ironclad for winning that gamble 12 times in a row. You can guarantee that all the wingnut online meeting places are about to get reallllly into voir dire and jury nullification
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Mar 31, 2023 15:05
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PostNouveau posted:Just as a percentage game, right? In Manhattan, it was 86% Biden, 12% Trump. I think you can be optimistic and say only half the Trump voters are going to be dead-ender enough to refuse to convict under any circumstance. I don't know stats well, but I don't think it's ironclad for winning that gamble 12 times in a row. Exactly. I don't want to get into any sort of doom spiral about it (maybe the Manhattan DA's office has some absolute masters of voir dire on staff), but my chief worry is that anything short of conviction will be treated as total vindication for Trump, and there is a big pool of folks out there who would never vote to convict, regardless of the strength of the evidence.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:09
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PostNouveau posted:Just as a percentage game, right? In Manhattan, it was 86% Biden, 12% Trump. I think you can be optimistic and say only half the Trump voters are going to be dead-ender enough to refuse to convict under any circumstance. I don't know stats well, but I don't think it's ironclad for winning that gamble 12 times in a row. The numbers are a bit better than that when you remember that almost half of people didn’t feel strongly enough to vote.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:13
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PostNouveau posted:I don't know how they can impanel a jury that won't hang on one juror who refuses to convict their god-king. Even in Manhattan. That's the trillion dollar question. That said the people on the grand jury, regular Americans who have actually seen the evidence and heard the testimony decided that there was sufficient evidence of Trump's guilt to convince another group of regular Americans to convict him. Now a grand jury decision doesn't have to be unanimous and as far as I know we don't know what the vote spread was so that definitely leaves the possibility of jury nullification but that is part of the design too as it provides a check against unpopular/unjust laws. This is our system working as designed with checks and balances, this is basically an example of how the United States justice system works under ideal circumstances. Because indicted isn't convicted and Trump will get his day in court and will have representation (I was going to say really good representation but then remembered that he's known for not paying people) but he will definitely have better representation than the average American who ends up in our judicial system. I think that is the point that the Left, Liberals and Democrats need to be hammering constantly. Braggs didn't indict Trump, the grand jury indicted Trump, a grand jury consisting of regular Americans, which is literally the check against political prosecution. Because the assumption is that if the prosecutors are trying to move on weak or fraudulent evidence the grand jury can refuse to hand down an indictment, kind of like what happened with most of the actual weaponization of the judicial system during the Trump administration. Of course we all know that a grand jury will generally indict a ham sandwich if a prosecutor asks them to which is why there is the additional check of the jury trial. In which the accused gets the opportunity to undermine, contradict and cross examine all of the evidence and witnesses presented by the prosecution. It's no secret that there are many flaws in our justice system but the vast majority of those flaws are due to the power imbalance between the state and the accused. The average American doesn't have the resources to mount a truly effective defense but Trump isn't an average American he's a rich white dude and the system is designed to protect rich white dudes. That is why we end up with what is effectively a multi-tiered judicial system those who have the resources to mount a competent defense and those who do not and unsurprisingly this results in far different outcomes. Trump is in the first group which is of course why many of us are apprehensive about the eventual outcome. That said the Trump organization has already been convicted of felonies so it is certainly possible to find a jury that will convict. Finally this is just the first and arguably the least serious of legal problems Trump faces, the Georgia case where the evidence is a literal phone call recording where Trump committed the crime in plain language. Then there are the biggies, the documents case where there is clear and blatant evidence that not only did Trump mean to take those documents but also understood that he wasn't supposed to have them and further took deliberate actions to mislead the government in order to maintain possession of said documents. On top of that there's the matter of his efforts to overthrow our democracy as well as the possibility of crimes that aren't already known to the public because you know that what we're seeing is literally the tip of the iceberg of Trump's criminal career.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:24
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Skex posted:I think that is the point that the Left, Liberals and Democrats need to be hammering constantly. Braggs didn't indict Trump, the grand jury indicted Trump, a grand jury consisting of regular Americans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmhgtBA16aA Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The New York Young Republicans just put out an absolutely bonkers statement about Trump's indictment and is vowing to organize protests outside of the courthouse next week. It seems like Trump legal proceedings in NYC will bring large protests, and considering the area's political leanings they're likely to be met with even larger counterprotests. The dynamic doesn't really put me at ease.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:31
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I posted in the other thread but my very unstable neighbor who was at January 6th took off last night with her husband in their van in a rush. They are still not back this morning. Not sure what they did with thier kids and their dogs because they were not in the van with them.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:36
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1641572247700926465 I would take a thousand Jeff Tiedrichs over this rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:48
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Nucleic Acids posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1641572247700926465 Alterian posted:I posted in the other thread but my very unstable neighbor who was at January 6th took off last night with her husband in their van in a rush. They are still not back this morning. Not sure what they did with thier kids and their dogs because they were not in the van with them. cat botherer fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 15:50
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Nucleic Acids posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1641572247700926465 George Soros wept
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Mar 31, 2023 15:55
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:Remembering today how dry these patriots kept their powder between 2008-2016 and how very little resulted from it I'm thinking of that NYC library drag queen read from a month ago where the Proud Boys had to get police escort away from the event because almost all of NYC showed up and started bricking them. New York is a hostile environment for chuds, unless they wear a badge or venture out of lower Manhattan.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:55
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lil poopendorfer posted:The man responsible for the largest mass shooting in US history did it because he wasn’t getting enough perks from the casino? This is the dumbest poo poo I ever read. although I suppose the type of person who is gonna believe the findings from the Warren commission is credulous enough to believe this FYI: The article does not say it was because of perks from a casino. They say that his motive is still unclear, but that during the investigation they found out he was upset about it. Please make sure you are giving an accurate summary of the article. quote:While investigators concluded that the motive of Stephen Paddock was unclear, newly released records include an account that he was angry about the casinos’ treatment of wealthy clients. quote:The man who fatally shot 60 people at an outdoor music festival in Las Vegas in 2017 had been angry over what he saw as casinos scaling back on perks for V.I.P. gamblers like himself, according to an account provided to the F.B.I. quote:Investigators and behavioral analysts at the F.B.I. similarly concluded in 2019 that they could not determine a “single or clear motivating factor” behind the attack. Investigators said it appeared that Mr. Paddock had wanted to die by suicide, after experiencing a decline in physical and mental health. quote:The newly released reports of F.B.I. interviews with people who knew or interacted with Mr. Paddock, made public in recent days, shed some new light on what has long been known about his obsessive, high-roller gambling habits and his state of mind before he unleashed a barrage of gunfire from his hotel window. quote:Mr. Paddock’s planning for the attack appeared to have been methodical, law enforcement investigations have shown. He had been stockpiling weapons for about a year, all purchased legally, and researching event venues, with internet searches such as “biggest open air concert venues in USA.” He had a hotel reservation in August, two months before the attack, in a room that overlooked the Lollapalooza music festival in Chicago. After settling on Las Vegas as his target, he spent days carrying an arsenal of guns into the hotel across the street from the Route 91 Harvest music festival. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 15:57
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PostNouveau posted:I don't know how they can impanel a jury that won't hang on one juror who refuses to convict their god-king. Even in Manhattan. It'll be interesting to see because Trump is guilty. Anyone other than him would have been dead to rights years ago. He has only escaped this (aside from being rich) because he was the president and there is just this vague vibe that they have immunity, but there isn't any actual legal basis to that. So the only way to really kill it would be to basically engage in attempted jury nullification.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:05
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CuddleCryptid posted:It'll be interesting to see because Trump is guilty. Anyone other than him would have been dead to rights years ago. He has only escaped this (aside from being rich) because he was the president and there is just this vague vibe that they have immunity, but there isn't any actual legal basis to that. So the only way to really kill it would be to basically engage in attempted jury nullification.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:09
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:You can keep this to yourself just FYI Try to keep the one sentence posting about posting/white noise stuff to a minimum please. At least include some content and address the argument directly if you want to dunk on someone.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:13
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cat botherer posted:Jury nullification has been a repeated thing in cases against far-right people (e.g. Ammon Bundy). I really wouldn't count it out. IIRC jury nullification was widely used to let murderers off for lynchings, it's always been a double edged sword.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC jury nullification was widely used to let murderers off for lynchings, it's always been a double edged sword. You are correct, the whole concept of a Lynching was to share culpability across the possible jury pool
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Mar 31, 2023 16:19
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Young Freud posted:I'm thinking of that NYC library drag queen read from a month ago where the Proud Boys had to get police escort away from the event because almost all of NYC showed up and started bricking them. New York is a hostile environment for chuds, unless they wear a badge or venture out of lower Manhattan. Also, although ACAB applies there as much as anywhere else, I would guess that given its diversity, the NYPD may actually lean Democratic among its rank-and-file (in a very centrist, coppy way of course), and is more hostile to white supremacy. That could inhibit the ability of groups like the PB to operate there and get the favorable treatment they've come to expect from cops.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:22
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Mellow Seas posted:Regular ol' New Yorkers, savin' the day by throwing garbage like the Roosevelt Island tram riders in Raimi's Spider-Man. There are multiple videos of the NYPD running over black protestors and the fascists that crashed the Drag event got a personal guard to take them out of the counter-protest. The facts do not support your hypothesis.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:27
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Cops, even nonwhite cops, are natural allies to fascists. Those who aren't do not stay cops, or stay alive, for long.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:28
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PostNouveau posted:Just as a percentage game, right? In Manhattan, it was 86% Biden, 12% Trump. I think you can be optimistic and say only half the Trump voters are going to be dead-ender enough to refuse to convict under any circumstance. I don't know stats well, but I don't think it's ironclad for winning that gamble 12 times in a row. I am a math nerd, and if we use your assumption that 6% of the potential members of a Trump jury will be dead-ender Trump fanatics who will never vote to convict him for anything, then the odds that 12 random people from that pool will not have one of those crazy people is just 47.6% (That is 0.94^12) Although, glass half-full, it isn't random, the prosecutors will presumably research everyone picked for jury duty and kick off everyone who is an obvious Trump fanatic. Glass half-empty though, if NY can trim it down to just 1% of potential jurors being Trump fanatics, there's still about an 11% chance that the jury will have a crazy person on it
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Mar 31, 2023 16:31
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Would be great if at 4pm we get news that Fani Willis is indicting trump.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:33
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Fox News HQ also doesnt have a constant coat of poo poo and piss. or have its food catering or order-in be constant poo poo and piss. or taxi apps havent soft blacklisted workers they know are FN workers.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The New York Young Republicans just put out an absolutely bonkers statement about Trump's indictment and is vowing to organize protests outside of the courthouse next week. Jesus, these peoples still believe that all the opposition to DJT comes from elites at the top of gov't and media and that all normal Americans are actually still totally on their side but are just being silenced/cowed. AKA, the Silent MajorityTM. They just cannot wrap their heads around the idea that the majority of Americans just do not like Trump or, at the very least, don't care about him.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:38
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