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The "wait who the gently caress is this person???" reaction seems pretty hard-coded into the human response to this kind of thing, and I don't know that we even have the option of avoiding it - it may be more infeasible than getting rid of the guns! At least in the pre-social media days you could imagine some kind of regulation or collusion among networks, but that's probably out the window now. At least we are talking about them for a shorter period of time than we used to? Dear prospective mass shooters: I do not remember the Uvalde shooter's name or anything about him, and I'll forget yours too, I promise.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:15
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Mellow Seas posted:I wouldn't go so far as to predict that cops would act properly during clashes of protests, or that there won't be terrible misconduct, or that their collective bias won't lie on the side of the fascists. Still, I cannot for a second imagine that 50% of NYPD officers being non-white would not have an effect on the way it treats white supremacists. All I can say is you are not very familiar with the NYPD and you should probably do some research, because you're super duper wrong.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:31
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cr0y posted:Why would he ever drop out of the race when he could just lose the election and then say it was all rigged again and grift his idiot base for millions and try to overthrow the government again? You assume Trump is able to do that. He's a narcissist who has to be the very best. He's been president once and believes he deserves to be it again: if he runs it will be entirely earnest. However if he doesn't win he'll probably do his best to grift exactly as said.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:34
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Mellow Seas posted:The "wait who the gently caress is this person???" reaction seems pretty hard-coded into the human response to this kind of thing, and I don't know that we even have the option of avoiding it - it may be more infeasible than getting rid of the guns! At least in the pre-social media days you could imagine some kind of regulation or collusion among networks, but that's probably out the window now. Dear mass shooters, the mass shooter market is so crowded that mass shooters killing literal elementary school children don't get half as much attention as they crave, so please reconsider.  gently caress me. You're not off base with this take... but just... gently caress me.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:41
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Jaxyon posted:All I can say is you are not very familiar with the NYPD and you should probably do some research, because you're super duper wrong. Seriously. This is probably a good place to start.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:46
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:He killed six people, three of which were children. Don't do that "but was he really evil?" Pontificating bullshit. Please post evidence of this fawning that can be proven to not be an alt-right psi-op.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:49
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Jaxyon posted:All I can say is you are not very familiar with the NYPD and you should probably do some research, because you're super duper wrong.  I lived in New York for years and still have many friends there. I know about Diallou, I know about stop and frisk, I know what Kerik and Kelly were all about and that their philosophy still runs the department. I know that Pat Lynch will get the union to enthusiastically defend them for absolutely anything. I know about the rapes, I know about the murders of whistleblowers. I know what a loving rat bastard organization they are. (And as far as minority officers, I certainly remember the events in Memphis a few weeks ago.) I'm not saying anything more than what I'm saying, which is an "all else being equal" thing. (And, in this case, all else is equal because ACAB.)Mellow Seas posted:I wouldn't go so far as to predict that cops would act properly during clashes of protests, or that there won't be terrible misconduct, or that their collective bias won't lie on the side of the fascists. You quoted this, but did you read it? You don't have to be a cop apologist or ignorant of the NYPD to hypothesize that black and Latin cops cause the Proud Boys and other white supremacists to be less comfortable, or that those cops will be less forgiving of their violence than the white cops will be. (I saw firsthand the difference between white cops and minority cops in the NYPD - they're all bad but the white cops are noticeably worse.) I know cops are deeply brainwashed by their organization, and that even minority cops have a strong tendency to be racist in their policing, but there's still a person in there.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:56
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Automata 10 Pack posted:Please post evidence of this fawning that can be proven to not be an alt-right psi-op. Like, of the most recent killer or the Columbine High School massacre fandom?
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Mar 31, 2023 21:03
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The cops collective bias would absolutely be on the side of the fascists because the cops are the fascists
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Mar 31, 2023 21:05
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The cops collective bias would absolutely be on the side of the fascists because the cops are the fascists cops:fascists::squares:rectangles I mean this seems to be a "no quarter" thing where some people don't want it spoken or acknowledged that cops ever act less than 100% evil, 100% of the time, which I totally get, so I'll just drop it. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 21:06
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Mellow Seas posted:In this hypothetical scenario we are discussing they are only some of the fascists. That’s literally what i said: all cops are fascists How does “i don’t think the fascists would side with the fascists” make any sense
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Mar 31, 2023 21:08
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:How does “i don’t think the fascists would side with the fascists” make any sense It sure wouldn't, maybe you need some new glasses champ e: I'll take a bit of blame for the communication error on account of the double negative Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 21:10
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Mellow Seas posted:
Yes, I read it. Still comes off as naive. You can feel whatever you want, but the evidence is not on your side.
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Mar 31, 2023 21:13
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Mellow Seas posted:You quoted this, but did you read it? What evidence is there to support your hypothesis that non-white cops cause the street-fighting brownshirts who get protected and saved by those cops to be "uncomfortable": Were there no Black officers that day? Did the fascist thugs give interviews about how they would have been able to do worse if it wasn't for the watchful eye of a Black man in uniform?
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Mar 31, 2023 21:17
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Jaxyon posted:Yes, I read it. Still comes off as naive. Science (the research journal, not the concept) posted:In the wake of high-profile police shootings of Black Americans, it is important to know whether the race and gender of officers and civilians affect their interactions. Ba et al. overcame previous data constraints and found that Hispanic and Black officers make far fewer stops and arrests and use force less than white officers, especially against Black civilians. These differences are largest in majority-Black neighborhoods in the city of Chicago (see the Perspective by Goff). Female officers also use less force than male officers. These effects are supportive of the efficacy of increasing diversity in police forces. I have not read the actual study, if anybody wants to get into it I'd enjoy that. This is distinct from the much more well-established research that black cops exhibit negative bias against blacks, which is absolutely true. Not all bad things are equally bad, and noticing that a bad thing is less bad is not claiming that it's good. But that's a discussion we've had here a whole bunch over the years, isn't it?
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Mar 31, 2023 21:24
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Cimber posted:Funny in a 'oh my God we have lost faith in the democratic process' sense, which isn't funny at all. They don't have faith in the democratic process. I'm not sure how anyone could think they do at this point.
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Mar 31, 2023 21:36
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Like, of the most recent killer or the Columbine High School massacre fandom? I don't agree fully with you, but I'll admit there's definitely something to what you're saying; a couple days back, when we started talking about the Nashville manifesto in this thread, I looked up one from another shooter, and that person directly said that they related to and were inspired by "People like Elliot Rodger, Vester Flanagan, The Columbine kids, Adam Lanza and Seung Cho." (though, they also said they were inspired by demonic forces, cloud atlas, and potatoes)
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Mar 31, 2023 21:49
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Mellow Seas posted:Listen, I'm not even 100% sure of it myself, or if the effect would even be all that significant if I were right, but, in addition to the intuitive argument - which I don't think should be discounted entirely, but again, I get it - there is, in fact, evidence for what I am claiming. A case study on Chicago for a 3 year period of time isn't really generalizable to the rest of the police departments in the county. I'm not saying it's not evidence but you said a vague thing from your gut and this doesn't really refute or back up the vague thing from your gut. It's definitely evidence that officers of color in Chicago during this time period treated minorities in Chicago better which is an indicator that diversity in police departments may help but it doesn't actually show that diversity is leading to that behavior/outcome. Common sense says it probably helps but the data is still being researched.
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Mar 31, 2023 22:00
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Like, of the most recent killer or the Columbine High School massacre fandom?
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Mar 31, 2023 22:26
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Gumball Gumption posted:A case study on Chicago for a 3 year period of time isn't really generalizable to the rest of the police departments in the county. I'm not saying it's not evidence but you said a vague thing from your gut and this doesn't really refute or back up the vague thing from your gut. It's definitely evidence that officers of color in Chicago during this time period treated minorities in Chicago better which is an indicator that diversity in police departments may help but it doesn't actually show that diversity is leading to that behavior/outcome. Common sense says it probably helps but the data is still being researched. So it seems on this issue (Viz, does having a higher proportion of bipoc cops contribute to more just policing outcomes) we have three positions in this thread. There's Mellow Sea's position - that there's only scant evidence, but it both aligns with gut and seems to suggest that there's a small but meaningful positive effect. Note that this position is still perfectly consistent with the position that ACAB and we need to dismantle the carceral state entirely. There's this most recent position which is that there may be an effect but the evidence is still out and therefore it's better to remain agnostic. Both of these positions seem reasonable. Then there's the position that ACAB is an absolute and there's absolutely no shades of gray here, that the distinction between how bipoc and women cops act and how other cops act is a distinction without a difference. This position is not reasonable. It neither accords with the small quantity of evidence we do have in front of us on the question, nor does it allow any room for discussion of the relative merits of various proposals for police reform that might actually pass in the near term. Regardless of your final goal (and, to be clear, mine is to dismantle the entire carceral state), there is room to improve the situation in incremental ways in the meantime and any position which forestalls that entirely is wrongheaded.
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Mar 31, 2023 23:07
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Gumball Gumption posted:A case study on Chicago for a 3 year period of time isn't really generalizable to the rest of the police departments in the county. I'm not saying it's not evidence but you said a vague thing from your gut and this doesn't really refute or back up the vague thing from your gut. It's definitely evidence that officers of color in Chicago during this time period treated minorities in Chicago better which is an indicator that diversity in police departments may help but it doesn't actually show that diversity is leading to that behavior/outcome. Common sense says it probably helps but the data is still being researched. Chicago is the 3rd largest city in the United States and is also known for having some awfully fascistic police, like they're known for having black sites and the FOP head said 800-1000 police officers would quit if the black teacher was elected mayor over the rich white guy. The specifics of their police culture might be as different as the respective city's pizzas but it would be pretty hard to find a better comparative city in the US. I don't think it's unreasonable to extrapolate results and conclusions. I think it's important however to note the magnitude of the reductions and whether or not they're significant to truly draw a conclusion
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Mar 31, 2023 23:47
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This is literally the 'hire more women guards' argument.
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Mar 31, 2023 23:49
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I was saying diversity is relevant specifically in the context of interactions with white supremacists, although the study takes a broader scope. Really, it’s something that could maybe, to assign some arbitrary values, take a “9.5” on the awful scale and make it into a “8.2”. That’s still far, far too awful, so it’s not a solution. You can look at it as something to do that’s short-term achievable that can make some changes on the margins, like pork said - but departments have already made a lot of progress on diversification and it hasn’t “fixed” anything. I just think protests where one side is white supremacist is one of the marginal cases where it matters. Would not be shocked, however, if I’m totally wrong and they roll out the red carpet for the worst pieces of poo poo to show up.
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Apr 1, 2023 00:03
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So uh we don't exactly have the precise thread for this but it is a US Current event, the Midwest is getting its poo poo kicked in with tornadoes all over Illinois, Arkansas, Tennessee, maybe Missouri. Stay safe goons if you're in the warpath; my sister lives east of St. Louis and is kinda making GBS threads bricks right now.
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Apr 1, 2023 00:41
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Mellow Seas posted:I was saying diversity is relevant specifically in the context of interactions with white supremacists, although the study takes a broader scope. Fascists instinctively recognise quislings as useful, and tolerate them right up until the moment they're seen as no longer necessary. Or the fascists get bored. Remember the black cop standing next to Chauvin joined the force because he wanted to reform them from the inside. That's what happens to them.
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Apr 1, 2023 00:53
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Tayter Swift posted:So uh we don't exactly have the precise thread for this but it is a US Current event, the Midwest is getting its poo poo kicked in with tornadoes all over Illinois, Arkansas, Tennessee, maybe Missouri. Stay safe goons if you're in the warpath; my sister lives east of St. Louis and is kinda making GBS threads bricks right now. If you are interested in the severe weather thread, that one is over here 
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Apr 1, 2023 02:33
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Zamujasa posted:If you are interested in the severe weather thread, that one is over here Thanks for the pro-click! Though I am bringing something over from that thead as it also belongs here. Unfortunately. https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1641963260164407298?t=vOcz7posplk1c_IBoUkOvw&s=19
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Apr 1, 2023 03:20
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Speaking of Wisconsin, Some More News did a video on the situation going on. It’s very good but also kinda dire. https://youtu.be/SYiYCEoofp4
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Apr 1, 2023 03:46
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Twincityhacker posted:Thanks for the pro-click! Though I am bringing something over from that thead as it also belongs here. Unfortunately. surely even a dyed in the wool republican voter would be pissed off at this r-right?
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Apr 1, 2023 04:06
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I'm only on the fringe of this and it's a shitstorm, things are gonna be grim tomorrow to a degree I dont think most people realize yet. They should be destroyed utterly for that poo poo.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:28
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Joe Biden's long and weird feud with the U.K. over Ireland and his Irish heritage is definitely the weirdest and funniest subplot of his Presidency. He has: - Refused to sit for a BBC interview because "I'm Irish." - Angered the U.K. by getting involved in their border dispute with Ireland during Brexit to tell the U.K. to not penalize Ireland. - Angered the U.K. by telling them to not violate Ireland's waters and allow English fishing boats to take their fish. - Visited and posed for pictures with IRA members who were wanted by the U.K. government. - Trashed Truss' economic plan publicly. - Called up the U.K. to tell them to make sure that Brexit does not inflame Irish tensions: quote:U.S. President-elect Joe Biden, has delivered a warning to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a post-election call, not to let Brexit destabilise the Northern Ireland peace process, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday. - Said that anyone who wears orange in his house on St. Patrick's day will get beat up. - Refused to attend the King's coronation. - Took down a bust of Winston Churchill in the White House and replaced it with a bust of Caesar Chavez and a framed copy of a Samuel Beckett poem. - Doesn't drink alcohol at all, but buys and drinks non-alcoholic Guinness to support the brewery. It's such a stupid, but hilarious running plot line that he is extremely committed to. https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1641931463904968705 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 04:29
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The positions on police demographics don't conflict, it's two separate questions. If you're deciding between more police or fewer police you should probably choose fewer police. If you're deciding how white and male the police force should be you should probably choose the least white and male option. Nobody is choosing between "expand the police force specifically by hiring more officers of color" and "downsize the police force".
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Apr 1, 2023 04:32
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:- Refused to attend the King's coronation. No US president has ever attended the coronation of the British Royal monarch, and why would they? The manufactured argument has he's refused to attend is something that right-wingers have tried to whip up today. e: It would be like expecting our King or Queen to attend the Presidential inaugurations fuctifino fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 04:34
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fuctifino posted:No US president has ever attended the coronation of the British Royal monarch, and why would they? The manufactured argument has he's refused to attend is something that right-wingers have tried to whip up today. That's partly because the last coronation was immediately after WWII and Elizabeth just lived forever. He's also invited Harry and Meghan to the White House during their whole to-do with the Royal Family and praised Meghan's interview on American TV where she implied the royal family were racist and they were apparently not happy. Him frequently butting in to defend Ireland during Brexit and E.U. disputes was especially hated by the conservative British press. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 04:37
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Some of the Tories were just recently saying he has "destroyed the special relationship" and that he was irrationally pro-Ireland too, lol.quote:Tories warn Joe Biden is ruining UK-US special relationship as trade deal stalls quote:But Biden, who is very proud of his Irish ancestry, faces pressure from Tory MPs to make the special relationship a priority after he threatened to suspend trade negotiations with the UK amid controversial plans to rip up parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol. quote:A Tory MP told Express.co.uk: "In my view, the special relationship will not be repaired until Biden is gone, because Biden is clearly not in the same place as most other recent Presidents, Republicans or Democrats, in their love for the UK. quote:But a second Tory MP suggested the UK would need a Republican in the White House to get things back on track. https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1746174/Rishi-sunak-Joe-Biden-special-relationship-trade-talks-Brexit-tory-party-latest-news-dxus
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Apr 1, 2023 04:45
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I elected President Trains but I will vote to re-elect President Sinn Fein. But seriously, on none of these points is Biden objectively wrong. The UK is irresponsibly governed and they should not be pandered to. Ireland is part of the EU, which is a far more important partner for the US, and Northern Ireland is a colonial remnant.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:48
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I think we can all agree that Biden's consistency on the issue is respectable, and that taking every opportunity to beat up on England is morally correct, has no downside, and is loving hilarious.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Him frequently butting in to defend Ireland during Brexit and E.U. disputes was especially hated by the conservative British press. It's hated because the conservative British press needs to sell the magical unicorn version of Brexit, which isn't compatible with important peace-giving things like the Good Friday Agreement or <points at everything else>. As a helpless Brit stuck in the hellscape that is the UK, I've been impressed with Biden's attitude to respecting the GFA. I wish more people did to be honest. As for praising Meghan's interview where she called out the Royal Family's well documented racism, good on him and her. I wish more people did the same with that too. Ghost Leviathan posted:I think we can all agree that Biden's consistency on the issue is respectable, and that taking every opportunity to beat up on England is morally correct, has no downside, and is loving hilarious. This is the 100% correct opinion. I relish right wing tears.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:52
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A federal Judge (nominated by Bob Corker and appointed by Trump) has blocked Tennesse's bill to ban drag. The judge says that the bill is written so vaguely that its definitions of "public" and "male or female impersonators that are harmful to minors" make it overly broad, unable to be objectively enforced, and a violation of the first amendment. quote:“If Tennessee wishes to exercise its police power in restricting speech it considers obscene, it must do so within the constraints and framework of the United States Constitution,” Judge Parker wrote in the order. “The court finds that as it stands, the record here suggests that when the legislature passed this statute, it missed the mark.” A theater is suing the state and the case will be heard for a final judgement on whether to permanently overturn the law or not. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1642006435440500736 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 04:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Some of the Tories were just recently saying he has "destroyed the special relationship" and that he was irrationally pro-Ireland too, lol. I do love that the Tories seem to think this is a uniquely Biden issue, and not an ongoing historic aspect of how something like 35 million Americans insist they're Irish. Like, during the entirety of The Troubles it was an ongoing issue between the US and UK that like every politician from New England was vocally pro IRA. Often publicly fundraising for them. Obama and Trump may not have had Irish affinity, but there's a decent chance the next President is going to be pro-Ireland too.
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