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What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

I don't think New Vegas is good because it sets some high bar for video games.

It's good because it at least tries to do the bare minimum when it comes to making a video game.

The tutorial isn't that great, but you can kind of skip through it. But it also doesn't let you just get lost at the start just wandering around the open world, and it tries to keep you on track and for the game to keep flowing through the early ears and quests while you're still getting used to it.

And it also does the Obsidian thing, which Alpha Protocol is kind of noted for, where you get new dialog options based on whatever perks you earned. Which is usually based on the way you want to play the game.

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Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Lostconfused posted:

The old world sucks rear end was always the message of fallout. The old world explicitly the bad guy of the 2nd game.

New Vegas just has the most obvious video game poo poo going for it like after you make it out of the tutorial area the game tells you you can go left (if you know everything there is to know about the game already) or you can go right and the game has a step by step planned out quest line that takes you to a bunch of side quests and story lines leading up to the main event.

There's nothing special about New Vegas except for the incredibly obvious video game stuff like "the game should lead you by hand for a consistent experience" and "the game should do stuff to show that it recognizes that you made a choice when clicking a dialog box or leveling up your character".

that going the other way thing is also true for the games bethesda made. You can literally complete the main quest in FO4 and ignore your robot butler which unlocks unique dialog.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Tankbuster posted:

that going the other way thing is also true for the games bethesda made. You can literally complete the main quest in FO4 and ignore your robot butler which unlocks unique dialog.

Yeah "going right to the end" is a thing you can say about Fallout games in general. The difference here is that the game just tells you that up front.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

BULBASAUR posted:

its tough existing as a writer in the games biz, as its not often stable work. because of that a lotta the time the work gets contracted out to script writers from hollywood / netflix / whatever

good games writing is also tough because of how it sits in the overall pipeline of work, its extremely expensive to do re-writes and iterate (this is also often the only way to make it good)

one of the reasons bethesda loving sucks at narrative were cheap agreements to use hollywood talent for the work instead of paying union labor to do it. the acquisition with MS might raise the bar but who knows

Bethesda does very good level design to make up for it. Like there's a neat little story laid out in the first skyrim mine where an orc is trying to turn iron into gold to supplement his bandit gang's mammoth trapping operation.

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors


New Vegas had the sin of an incredibly boring world, physically, to explore. There were hardly any impressive set piece locations, or a flow to the environment, or anything at all memorable. It was just brown dusty desert with some usually boring locations to visit.

It just wasn't inviting to come and explore.

People can talk all day about the story for NV, but when I compare trying to get invested in it, to FO3 where right from the intro going through your childhood in the vault, to then stepping out over that cliff, seeing the wasteland spread out before you, a bombed out city right in your path, with a propaganda robot around, leading right over to a giant crater city with a nuke in the center being worshiped, the ruins of washington DC off in the distance, FO3 wins every time despite all its problems and lame main story. There was so much more life in the physical world of FO3 that made me want to just start sprinting off in every direction, as brown as it may be.

Bethesda style open world games live and die I think by the world design, not the plots, and thats where they stayed ahead of so many open world games. Games just full of samey locations, beautiful rendered though they may be, that don't tell much of a story just looking at them. If i want a great story I'll read a book or watch a film, but if i'm playing a game, an open world one, I want to feel like theres wonder around every corner with something new to see, far off lands in the distances framed in shot that beckon to come explore.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Al! posted:

what the gently caress is this thing

It's a 203 mm howitzer M1931 (B-4). They were used in the Winter War to destroy Finnish fortifications. In the Second World War, they were placed in separate 36 guns regiments, control by Stavka, and then released to an Army or Front HQ for operations. In part because of delays when their factories were evacuated to the east, it took a while to get them concentrated in numbers, the other part being that good deal were captured by the Germans in 1941. From the spring of '44 on they were used to smash German fortress cities, often by direct fire.

Throatwarbler posted:

How did it move? Did they just tow it on tracks?

Yes. Because we're talking about almost 20 tonnes all told, a wheeled carriage wasn't really within Soviet capabilities. The development of naval, medium and large calibre guns suffered major setbacks after the revolution. That meant their designs were pretty heavy, being derived from Tsarist guns from the period after the Russo-Japanese War. If you look at how heavy guns of that era were towed, they were usually broken down into several loads, first because they were towed by horses, then because gun tractors, roads and bridges weren't up to it. They also usually had to be installed on a firing platform. A tracked carriage allowed the gun to be towed off-road and it could be fired from the carriage as well.

Compare it to it's predecessors (and remember in terms of gun design, contemporaries)







The more modern US heavy gun of WW2 was not far off, either once it received a tracked carriage.


But keep in mind, that is still disassembled into 2 pieces, where the B-4 could be towed by a single gun tractor



gradenko_2000 posted:

FF does your expertise go as far back as being able to tell us the merits of ACW-era rifled cannons (Parrots?) versus smoothbores (Napoleons?)

I have a copy of Earl J. Hess' authoritative book on it, which is one of the best general histories of artillery I've read. I'll try to type something up tomorrow. I also have a copy of “Double Canister at Ten Yards”: The Federal Artillery and the Repulse of Pickett’s Charge, July 3, 1863 , which I have not read yet but looks good. Artillery is also covered in fantastic detail in Coggins' Arms and Equipment of the Civil War, which is one of the best books on arms and equipment I've read, and another reminder of why diagrams and illustrations are a lost art. It was written in 1962 and I really wish they made books like that today, on a variety of subjects. (It's on libgen.)













They really and truly do not make books like that anymore. I guess since it was 1962 the illustrations were all done by hand too.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
imagine playing the videogame when you can watch a video about how good the story is. FO4 also had a noir detective roaming around the city you could solve crimes (follow quest markers) with.

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

Tom Guycot posted:

New Vegas had the sin of an incredibly boring world, physically, to explore. There were hardly any impressive set piece locations, or a flow to the environment, or anything at all memorable. It was just brown dusty desert with some usually boring locations to visit.

It just wasn't inviting to come and explore.

People can talk all day about the story for NV, but when I compare trying to get invested in it, to FO3 where right from the intro going through your childhood in the vault, to then stepping out over that cliff, seeing the wasteland spread out before you, a bombed out city right in your path, with a propaganda robot around, leading right over to a giant crater city with a nuke in the center being worshiped, the ruins of washington DC off in the distance, FO3 wins every time despite all its problems and lame main story. There was so much more life in the physical world of FO3 that made me want to just start sprinting off in every direction, as brown as it may be.

Bethesda style open world games live and die I think by the world design, not the plots, and thats where they stayed ahead of so many open world games. Games just full of samey locations, beautiful rendered though they may be, that don't tell much of a story just looking at them. If i want a great story I'll read a book or watch a film, but if i'm playing a game, an open world one, I want to feel like theres wonder around every corner with something new to see, far off lands in the distances framed in shot that beckon to come explore.

wish there was more life in your brain

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007

Danann posted:

yeah wagner just kept on squeezing ukraine out of bakhmut's center

https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1642641355024355329

lmfao legally. irl king of the hill

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007

Tom Guycot posted:

New Vegas had the sin of an incredibly boring world, physically, to explore. There were hardly any impressive set piece locations, or a flow to the environment, or anything at all memorable. It was just brown dusty desert with some usually boring locations to visit.

It just wasn't inviting to come and explore.

People can talk all day about the story for NV, but when I compare trying to get invested in it, to FO3 where right from the intro going through your childhood in the vault, to then stepping out over that cliff, seeing the wasteland spread out before you, a bombed out city right in your path, with a propaganda robot around, leading right over to a giant crater city with a nuke in the center being worshiped, the ruins of washington DC off in the distance, FO3 wins every time despite all its problems and lame main story. There was so much more life in the physical world of FO3 that made me want to just start sprinting off in every direction, as brown as it may be.

Bethesda style open world games live and die I think by the world design, not the plots, and thats where they stayed ahead of so many open world games. Games just full of samey locations, beautiful rendered though they may be, that don't tell much of a story just looking at them. If i want a great story I'll read a book or watch a film, but if i'm playing a game, an open world one, I want to feel like theres wonder around every corner with something new to see, far off lands in the distances framed in shot that beckon to come explore.

fnv definitely lacks the wacky setpieces typical of the fallout series, its unsurprising some of the most memorable moments of FNV are its wackiest: ghouls going to the moon, literal boomers as you run through a blasted hellscape, tabitha. that said fo3 intro was total aids thats responsible for 90% of the hate the game gets. god drat it was boring.

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat

Tankbuster posted:

Bethesda does very good level design to make up for it. Like there's a neat little story laid out in the first skyrim mine where an orc is trying to turn iron into gold to supplement his bandit gang's mammoth trapping operation.

yep. studios tend to have strengths and weaknesses

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors


bedpan posted:

wish there was more life in your brain

I gave Todd money for Skyrim on 3 separate occasions, my brain is confirmed to be very lifeless.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Throatwarbler posted:

How did it move? Did they just tow it on tracks?

With all those fuel shortages? I'd guess a bunch of men with ropes. You'd be surprised how much enough grunt work can shift. Sucks doing it though.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

I'm not trying to pick a fight in "Bethesda is better" or "Obsidian is better".

I just don't think Fallout 4 is good. I spent way too much time playing it, but never finished it.

Mainly because the the quest line forces you to kill all off the other factions so I ended up having to kill my way through the Brotherhood of Steel blimp. Where you run into some child soldier/pioneers, who you can't kill because that's not something you can't do in Bethesda games. After that moment of dissonance I just decided to not finish the main quest line because the game didn't give me any other choice that I was comfortable with.

I think it's fine if you like Fallout 4, but I think it has some problems. I don't always like popular games, so that's fine. I think Bioshock has the same problem where the best choice is to just not keep playing the game. Which I think is a bad thing for a video game, but it was popular and a lot of people still liked it. Heck I think most of it was fun too.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

It does make me insanely pissed about AI art though because I haven't seen an accurate technical illustration or diagram worth a drat. The illustrator here uses a variety of styles from realistic, to outlines, to my fav which is that he demonstrates formations by making the figures almost wooden toy soldiers


Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Lostconfused posted:

I'm not trying to pick a fight in "Bethesda is better" or "Obsidian is better".

I just don't think Fallout 4 is good. I spent way too much time playing it, but never finished it.

Mainly because the the quest line forces you to kill all off the other factions so I ended up having to kill my way through the Brotherhood of Steel blimp. Where you run into some child soldier/pioneers, who you can't kill because that's not something you can't do in Bethesda games. After that moment of dissonance I just decided to not finish the main quest line because the game didn't give me any other choice that I was comfortable with.

I think it's fine if you like Fallout 4, but I think it has some problems. I don't always like popular games, so that's fine. I think Bioshock has the same problem where the best choice is to just not keep playing the game. Which I think is a bad thing for a video game, but it was popular and a lot of people still liked it. Heck I think most of it was fun too.

my point was that FNV was the game that radicalized people in the heart of the imperial machine into being leftists.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Tankbuster posted:

my point was that FNV was the game that radicalized people in the heart of the imperial machine into being leftists.

Post your thesis on this please. It's okay to scrub any personal identifiers off. Would love to know what marks you got for it on the assessment rubric.

CODChimera
Jan 29, 2009

wasteland > fallout

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
i gotta give new vegas props for one fun little quirk in the writing, which was that both main factions had a broadly correct take about the other while also having a completely self-delusional one about themselves

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1642589506728542210

cant believe putin would just murder this guy who most definitely was critical of russia invading ukraine like this tweet is implying

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1642589506728542210

there putin goes again murdering his own supporters for reasons beyond our comprehension

its good putin spared the window



this time

supersnowman
Oct 3, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

I would at least refer to the tractor factory and grain elevator by name, plus that one combat engineer battalion that actually made it to the bank of the river.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FGhh9k8FZgs



Using 203mm guns on the streets of Berlin was pretty sick.

I'm personally partial to SU/ISU-152 because the armored casemate is a good bonus even if you have to compromise with the "small" 152mm gun.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Throatwarbler posted:

How did it move? Did they just tow it on tracks?

yes, also its the B-4 203mm howitzer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/203_mm_howitzer_M1931_(B-4)

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007
kill bloggers to the last

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

BULBASAUR posted:

its tough existing as a writer in the games biz, as its not often stable work. because of that a lotta the time the work gets contracted out to script writers from hollywood / netflix / whatever

good games writing is also tough because of how it sits in the overall pipeline of work, its extremely expensive to do re-writes and iterate (this is also often the only way to make it good)

one of the reasons bethesda loving sucks at narrative were cheap agreements to use hollywood talent for the work instead of paying union labor to do it. the acquisition with MS might raise the bar but who knows

I thought Hollywood writers actually had a pretty strong union? what is the alternative writers Union?

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
defenestration? not this time, this was a deposterstration

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Frosted Flake posted:

It does make me insanely pissed about AI art though because I haven't seen an accurate technical illustration or diagram worth a drat. The illustrator here uses a variety of styles from realistic, to outlines, to my fav which is that he demonstrates formations by making the figures almost wooden toy soldiers




have they even been available to the public for a year? save your piss for a drought

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

DancingShade posted:

Post your thesis on this please. It's okay to scrub any personal identifiers off. Would love to know what marks you got for it on the assessment rubric.

I was studying in the US during the late obama to late trump terms and I saw the entire political zeitgeist go into overdrive, with my age cohort going fully into personal consumption of boutique pop culture = political praxis. The rise of breadtube was insane. Much like this war there was a liberal freakout about politics being downstream from culture with some cartoon frog being turned into a hate symbol. The right was winning on youtube videos until epic twitter leftists started making videos to fight back. You cannot simply like or dislike media. It has to be an almost religious experience where everything you consume is imbued with divine meaning, like a cultural version of Tamasic/Sattavic diets. You were literally slaying fascists in real life by playing Wolfenstein.

Therefore fallout 4 couldn't be a bethesda open world game that was well marketed enough to break into popular internet culture (people dressed up as vaultboy/vaultgirl for halloween). It was destroying an american icon (a somewhat niche postapocalyptic videogame) that taught very valuable lessons like "The American Empire is Evil and will end the world". The brotherhood of steel can't be a mythic archetype like the questing paladins that they literally are, they have to be le epic fascists that you can bash with Cass. Good gameplay loops are secondary to the Message(tm). Don't you see this hbomberguy video about how bethesda set up a themepark which doesn't understand the THEMES? If only people could be educated on fallout's depth and commentary then maybe the gamers would be good. The right was larping as epic caesar's legion and talking about degenerates.


Meanwhile trump was carrying on business as usual for the most part. Most of said friends voted for biden in their american heartland states and now keep trying to convince me that joe is actually not that bad.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Vomik posted:

I thought Hollywood writers actually had a pretty strong union? what is the alternative writers Union?

bethesda didn't have many hollywood writers. What they did have was hollywood VAs. Lynda Carter voices characters in nearly all their games.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
And people in the USA are bewildered at their empire crumbling under them.

supersnowman
Oct 3, 2012


Let's see if I get this right.

1 handle the screw and sponge to prep the gun. Possibly the rammer too.
2 put the load in the tube.
3 prep the fun to shoot wit the lanyard.
4 shoots the gun wit the lanyard.
5 bring the munition to the gun?
6 and 7 are in charge of prepping the munitions?
G aim and gives order.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:














They really and truly do not make books like that anymore. I guess since it was 1962 the illustrations were all done by hand too.

One thing I don't understand is how was the canister detonated at the right time? Did it just split into pieces like a giant shotgun shell the moment it left the barrel?

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

the only good fallout game was the 2004 immortal classic fallout: brotherhood of steel for the ps2

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1642589506728542210

cant believe putin would just murder this guy who most definitely was critical of russia invading ukraine like this tweet is implying

Very fun watching UR supporters crow about cool it is this guy got killed but also it's impossible Ukraine did it, they're too pure and noble to kill people who deserve it.

Like drat, if I was morally invested in one side of this war I would absolutely be attributing every bombing to my team, hell yeah, we can kill your milbloggers and people's daughters whenever we want to.

Also, Putler, please nuke something so this thread has something to talk about other than old-rear end video games.

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/SariArhoHavren/status/1642428808799068160

Geopol., China analyst. Futurist. Passionate abt past&future&democracy. Cold War relations. History, int’l relations PhD. Opinions mine.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
eh its not impossible but moving production chains takes time. China isn't interested in turning into a service economy either.

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

just realized it's not the china thread but i guess it's adjacent enough

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

checkmate once again tankies

https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1642655121963364353

turns out long wars are actually better than short wars if your goal is less war

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
Videogame writing sucks because
* You're subject to the same employee abuse & undercompensation of everyone else in the games industry
* Sometimes the job is just lumped on one of the project directors
* Game development is extremely mercenary, you aren't guaranteed any recognition or consistent work, you're probably getting fired from the studio once the game is out the door. Big reason why games tend to wildly vary in quality despite being from the same studio.
* The process for making games is a lot more rigid than writing for a text story or film; when you realize a tangent would flow better elsewhere in the story you can cut out the chunk of story, edit out those scenes, move them elsewhere. Depending on the game this can simply not be an option.
* Game development is often a lot more likely to be subjected to immense time pressures & sudden deadlines. KOTOR 2 is a notorious example of the deadline being jumped up several months before the game is even done.
* Gameplay mechanics as a vehicle for plot & thematic design is still extremely underdeveloped, and is passively discouraged by the gamer appetite for instant gratification. Maybe your cool idea will end up being recieved well like the Nier save deletion ultimatum, maybe people will just bitch and moan. People still interpret Getting Over It as "the developer is making fun of you what a oval office"
* There's a wave of weird reactionary dudes that see games as toys and get really mad when they think a game is "trying" to be art, not very conductive towards studios wanting to be known for their artistic merit
* Other stuff I'm probably forgetting at 2 AM

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BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat

Vomik posted:

I thought Hollywood writers actually had a pretty strong union? what is the alternative writers Union?

Hollywood does have a strong writers union. In Bethesda's case, they had direct agreements with hollywood talent through zenimax and some personal connections.

If you ever wondered why many of the voice actors were the same people in their games, that's one of the reason why.

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