|
multiple people posted:
I ended up finding the Raphel PPR, but section "1.8.1. Features" isn't listing the information I was hoping for (and which is present in other PPRs). The PPR does mention that L1 is divided into an instruction cache and data-cache, which is 32kB each. As for losing cache coherency when a core is turned off, that's like saying water is wet - because of course the caches are volatile. It's also why basically all compute-bound loads turn off ACPI C-states (or at least limit them to only use C1(E)). BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Apr 5, 2023 |
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 11:51
|
|
about caches
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 00:50 |
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:which is confusing to me, because it doesn't matter how much L1 and L2 add up to. First data sheet? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 14:15
|
|
|
5800X review embargo lifted https://www.anandtech.com/show/18795/the-amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d-review-a-simpler-slice-of-v-cache-for-gaming https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/04/review-amd-ryzen-7800x3d-is-the-cheapest-way-to-get-the-most-out-of-a-1500-gpu/
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 14:32
|
|
|
Enough 3D cache, bring back 3DNow!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 14:36
|
|
|
LightRailTycoon posted:Enough 3D cache, bring back 3DNow! And while we're at it, bring back 3dfx!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 14:53
|
|
|
and here is the chart: never bet on working thread scheduling
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 15:26
|
|
|
CatelynIsAZombie posted:*bangs table* feed me 7800x3d reviews Ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31PwSpClk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na9_eQ9E20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78lp1TGFvKc And if you feel like slumming it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj4gn7od0jY
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 15:48
|
|
|
Im not a gamer but I don't think these processors are that amazing. Maybe gaming stuff doesn't show it off as well as people hoped.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:19
|
|
|
redeyes posted:Im not a gamer but I don't think these processors are that amazing. Maybe gaming stuff doesn't show it off as well as people hoped. Yes, if you don't do what they are made for it's not surprising they don't seem particularly amazing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:24
|
|
|
redeyes posted:Im not a gamer but I don't think these processors are that amazing. Maybe gaming stuff doesn't show it off as well as people hoped. It has some niches, in certain games it's leagues ahead but for gaming it's not generally a meaningfully better buy than some other options, at least not at the current pricing. For productivity just get more cores and higher clocks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:It has some niches, in certain games it's leagues ahead but for gaming it's not generally a meaningfully better buy than some other options, at least not at the current pricing. For productivity just get more cores and higher clocks. If you use your computer for other stuff (I suspect most of us do), then the non-X3D parts are fast enough for gaming (which is going to be GPU-bound at 1440/4k anyway) and additional cores/threads help, though it can be argued that for non-professional productivity, all these CPUs are more than fast enough. Still feeling good about my 7900X bundle from Microcenter. $600 for CPU + B650E mobo + 32GB DDR5-6000 remains a no brainer imo unless you're playing competitive FPS and need to eek out every last FPS. Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Apr 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:29
|
|
|
The price is very good compared to the alternatives for gaming. I'm strongly considering upgrading to it from 5600X.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
also people don't seem to value power efficiency in cpu's a lot these days. doesn't help that gpu's basically need their own psu's at this point
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:31
|
|
|
I’m just starting to look at the 7800x3d reviews but is the max boost easily overclocked back up to the 7900x3d/7950x3d’s vcache CCD’s 5250MHz max?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 16:33
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:I’m just starting to look at the 7800x3d reviews but is the max boost easily overclocked back up to the 7900x3d/7950x3d’s vcache CCD’s 5250MHz max? Nope. AMD has capped the 7800X3D to keep the 7950X3D at the top of the charts, lol. Not unexpected, but still funny. TechPowerUp posted:The 7800X3D is artificially capped to a maximum frequency of 5050 MHz on each core, probably to protect the higher-end X3D CPUs, which are allowed to boost higher. For example, the 7950X3D will boost up to 5250 MHz easily with light loads on it's 3D VCache chiplet. PBO does seem to eek out a little more performance in some games, though, likely by keeping the clocks pegged at the 5050Mhz max. TPU has it at 2.3% over their test suite at 1440p. Cygni fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
If I’m upgrading from 5800X3D, I don’t have to worry about the “contamination” of AMD drivers that the GN video found when switching from the 7950X3D, right? I’m ready.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 17:05
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:If I’m upgrading from 5800X3D, I don’t have to worry about the “contamination” of AMD drivers that the GN video found when switching from the 7950X3D, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 17:07
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:it sounded like an issue that'd only affect reviewers jumping around the 7-series x3d cpus on a single setup Or anyone upgrading from a 7900X3D/7950X3D in the future. Hopefully AMD addresses it. AMD putting it in "known issues" to me implies there will be a fix.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:it sounded like an issue that'd only affect reviewers jumping around the 7-series x3d cpus on a single setup OK, thanks for the confirmation!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
kliras posted:also people don't seem to value power efficiency in cpu's a lot these days. doesn't help that gpu's basically need their own psu's at this point I built a ryzen 7700 (no x) with a radeon 6800 (not xt), for max efficiency, probably as good as it gets
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:I’m just starting to look at the 7800x3d reviews but is the max boost easily overclocked back up to the 7900x3d/7950x3d’s vcache CCD’s 5250MHz max? not trivial but there’s options depending on your mobo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90UBUq1mLGY
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 18:17
|
|
|
redeyes posted:Im not a gamer but I don't think these processors are that amazing. Maybe gaming stuff doesn't show it off as well as people hoped. For someone who doesn't just game but plays the kinds of games that really like cache (grand strategy, MMOs, simulators) they're absolutely that amazing. They look pretty whatever in the games that reviewers like to benchmark but occasionally one will throw in one of the niche games these chips excel at (like that HUB factorio chart) and you get to see what's up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
Sometimes it’s not even just the games themselves, but the introduction of towering mod lists. I got a shocking boost in extremely modded Skyrim by throwing 3d cache at it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:28
|
|
|
this allusion meant posted:not trivial but there’s options depending on your mobo for clarity, this is using bclk (or eclk)... which isnt really something I would recommend people do, unless you are going for an OC record. i also dont think many boards are gonna support the async eclk modes, but i havent gotten my hands on any AM5 stuff yet. i may also just be overly shy of bclk overclocking as an old man who spent way WAY too much time messing with unstable overclocks, misbehaving systems, and corrupted windows installs due to bclk shenanigans in my younger years. of COURSE running my Duron at a 103Mhz bclk was worth days of pain and suffering!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:50
|
|
|
I think more AM5 motherboards support asynch BCLK and ECLK or whatever the peripheral base clk is called. Definitely don’t do it if they’re synched.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:56
|
|
|
Cygni posted:for clarity, this is using bclk (or eclk)... which isnt really something I would recommend people do, unless you are going for an OC record. i also dont think many boards are gonna support the async eclk modes, but i havent gotten my hands on any AM5 stuff yet. yeah i likely won’t be doing more than a basic all core curve optimizer negative voltage offset and pbo2 unless there’s a lot more people who look into this stuff and really make it well-trodden ground but it does seem to be doable. not building until late summer so i’ll have time to see what others find
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:I think more AM5 motherboards support asynch BCLK and ECLK or whatever the peripheral base clk is called. At least from what I've been able to find so far for eclk support, ASUS has it on the Crosshairs but thats it. Gigabyte its on the Aorus Master and Tachyon only. For Asrock, only the Taichis. For MSI, the ACE and Godlike do, but I think thats it. So I think the cheapest board that might be able to do it is the B650E Taichi at $370.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
If I remember, fiddling with the base clock (BCLK) also has... shall we say, interesting implications on every daughterboard your system has (even if it's something that's on the actual motherboard, like onboard audio or a LAN NIC), if they're hooked up to the CPUs PCIe lanes. Well, the kind of interesting you get if you live in interesting times, at least. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
That’s better than AM4 I think? Wasn’t it only on the GODLIKE and equivalent “kitchen sink” boards?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
So, based on what reviews are showing, if I'm gaming at 4K, it looks like I should probably just replace my 3600 with a 5800X3D on sale and ride that out for as long as possible, right? Going with a 7800X3D adds the extra costs of replacing the motherboard and RAM and there doesn't seem to be much of an uplift over the 5800X3D at this resolution even with a 4090, and I don't have 4090 kind of money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 21:38
|
|
|
^^ i was gonna say, last minute 5800X3D upgrade stays winning for me^^kliras posted:and here is the chart:
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 21:52
|
|
|
Grog posted:So, based on what reviews are showing, if I'm gaming at 4K, it looks like I should probably just replace my 3600 with a 5800X3D on sale and ride that out for as long as possible, right? Going with a 7800X3D adds the extra costs of replacing the motherboard and RAM and there doesn't seem to be much of an uplift over the 5800X3D at this resolution even with a 4090, and I don't have 4090 kind of money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
It makes absolute sense if you can grab a cheap 5800X3D for an upgrade on a platform you already have. I've posted about it over in the PC building thread, but I'm upgrading from a workstation built in 2011 - so there's basically no hardware worth keeping except the GPU, NIC and audio card. Especially because I'm pretty sure that in addition to the chipset being funky on that system (so funky that it no longer POSTs), a good amount of the BSODs it got were because of the PSU starting to fail.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:That’s better than AM4 I think? Wasn’t it only on the GODLIKE and equivalent “kitchen sink” boards? eCLK only worked for Zen+ and then was removed for Zen 2/3, iirc. Boards that had the 2nd clock gen (like the Crosshair 7) either grayed the field out in the bios or removed it with a Zen 2/3 cpu. Someone edited the bios in a hex editor to force the eCLK flag to on and it didn't do anything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:01
|
|
|
Grog posted:So, based on what reviews are showing, if I'm gaming at 4K, it looks like I should probably just replace my 3600 with a 5800X3D on sale and ride that out for as long as possible, right? Going with a 7800X3D adds the extra costs of replacing the motherboard and RAM and there doesn't seem to be much of an uplift over the 5800X3D at this resolution even with a 4090, and I don't have 4090 kind of money. If you're gaming at 4K and don't have a 4090 you can also just let the 3600 rock for a while longer but the 5800X3D is a solid upgrade and would last you quite a while.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:17
|
|
|
BurritoJustice posted:Over on the Intel side, the Sapphire Rapids workstation xeons (W-3400) support up to 4TB of DDR5 LRDIMMs. They're roughly price equivalent to TR Pro. Oh how I would love to have 4TB of RAM in my ZFS file server.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:33
|
|
|
Arzachel posted:If you're gaming at 4K and don't have a 4090 you can also just let the 3600 rock for a while longer but the 5800X3D is a solid upgrade and would last you quite a while. They do help a fair bit with those 1 and .1% low though. Even the 5800X3D would be a noticeable improvement. Not in all games though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:36
|
|
|
Yeah, I've just experienced some stuttering and slightly low performance issues with the 3600 in some more CPU-intensive games (running a 3080 Ti, which cost more than my past three video cards combined), so I figured I might as well look at a final CPU upgrade on this platform to try to alleviate that. Hopefully a 5800X3D will be good for a decent amount of time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:50
|
|
|
Grog posted:So, based on what reviews are showing, if I'm gaming at 4K, it looks like I should probably just replace my 3600 with a 5800X3D on sale and ride that out for as long as possible, right? Going with a 7800X3D adds the extra costs of replacing the motherboard and RAM and there doesn't seem to be much of an uplift over the 5800X3D at this resolution even with a 4090, and I don't have 4090 kind of money. in any situation where someone is looking at an older, working am4 system and is trying to maximize gaming value for money rather than some specific performance target (incl. power/noise/efficiency targets, which 7800x3d seems to be unmatched at), cpu-only upgrade to 5800x3d wins against any conceivable new platform build that could possibly exist before 2025 or so. it's a well-supported upgrade that totally obviates platform costs, and the current state of game resource use is such that gpu upgrades are going to be where you should put as much money as possible for the foreseeable future. the combination of 6 to 8 cores, zen3 speed and ipc uplift, and 3d vcache provides enough additional resources to deal with any particular shortcoming that the 3600 might have in current or near future titles. 5700x could also be a value challenger here depending on specific game titles and specific sale discounts but 5800x3d has the interesting advantage of also being basically insensitive to dram performance, if you didn't bother to get a performance kit with your zen2 system
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 23:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 00:50 |
|
|
I basically tried to get a good price/performance value upgrade when the Zen 2 CPUs were released so I have 3200 CL14, but I also got one of MSI's initial "entry-level" X570 boards with the VRM setup that runs hot and can throttle with the 12- and 16-core CPUs. Other people seem to have gotten the 5800X3D running fine on theirs, so fingers crossed, knock on wood, salt over the shoulder, etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 00:21
|
|