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The causus belli stuff was pretty cool in planetfall. Being able to trade "I know I ticked you off" points for poo poo actually felt more natural than a less gamified system would
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 03:45 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:12 |
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Dallan Invictus posted:I know Beyond Earth was explicitly not intended to be this, but I'm convinced that everyone wanting this is a large part of why it bombed so massively. it was really obviously intended to be this though, it's full of attempts to ape smac features. "beyond earth is it's own thing, how dare you compare it to smac" became a thing because the game sucked and so all those comparisons were unfavourable imo smac doesn't hold up that well now but at the time it was clearly the best civ game yet, despite having some new bad ideas (the unit designer, not getting to choose techs, crawlers)
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 03:46 |
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Weird question, but was it smac or some other game from that era that had a brothel building? I was watching my dad's friend play and that's how I learned what that word meant.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 11:28 |
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The first time I saw the word brothel I think it was Medieval Total War 1
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 11:49 |
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Well, this thread got me to reinstall ffh2 after I realized it would run in my lovely work laptop Overall very bad decision on my part.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 11:57 |
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I'll point out that if you poke around in SMAC's scripting you'll find out that there is a whole rock paper scissors armour Vs weapons system they had but then they ripped out. The conclusion this points me to is that it's kinda nonsense to talk about complexity in terms of "more complex is better". The designers of SMAC clearly considered a more complicated combat system, but decided it didn't fit their design. Readability is more important, as is the idea that tech times industrial capacity should equal victory. I look at the units in Planetfall and have basically no idea what is a "strong" army or not. Maybe that is desirable in the sort of game Planetfall is, but it certainly isn't for SMAC.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 13:06 |
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Fangz posted:I'll point out that if you poke around in SMAC's scripting you'll find out that there is a whole rock paper scissors armour Vs weapons system they had but then they ripped out. Honestly, a lot of this kinda leads me to wanting more abstraction of military elements in 4x games trying to be that, but distinct units like "axeman" or "tank" are just considered part of the tradition now. I don't mind games being tactical to be tactical, but in a game where production is in 'hammers', a specific unit like 'keshik' feels way out of place. Anyway, Through the Ages is the best 4x game.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 13:21 |
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Its pretty easy to tell a strong army in planetfall, they have big nasty looking units and you can also click them to see the tier if you're not sure
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 13:29 |
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Veryslightlymad posted:Tl;dr: I enjoyed this post a lot. I have idly thought, a long time ago, about some mechanic that involves 'prospecting' for oil etc, though I haven't put any detailed thought into a wider surveying mechanic like you have. But I like it. I've been thinking about resources recently too. I dunno why, but every time i go on vacation, I end up thinking about Civilization and redesigning some mechanic or another in my head. Lately it's been resources (and trade but I'm not going to do a braindump on that because I've gone a bit overboard with it). Here's what I, a crazy person, would do:
I like to think that this would help to model some fun historical things:
LordSloth posted:Edit or [Cell]ivization hahahaha this is incredible. I've actually been thinking about using excel (the only thing I know how to program) to model some of my ideas and see if they would work. But I've never seen anything like this Veryslightlymad posted:Oh, don't get me started on the problems I have with hard borders everyone agrees to, or the lack of intricacy in diplomatic agreements. oh man, don't get me started. Disputed territory is another thing i've dwelled on a lot
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 13:30 |
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Are there any good 4x that deal with logistics? I've been thinking about my dream game and I think a 4x that is about space or sea naval logistics (building bases for refuel and resupply, docks for repair, shipyards for new ships) with a realtime tactical battle system like Sword of the Stars would scratch a lot of itches.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 15:20 |
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OPAONI posted:Are there any good 4x that deal with logistics? I've been thinking about my dream game and I think a 4x that is about space or sea naval logistics (building bases for refuel and resupply, docks for repair, shipyards for new ships) with a realtime tactical battle system like Sword of the Stars would scratch a lot of itches. Shadow Empire? I haven't played it but apparently it has the most logistics out of all 4X games.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 15:27 |
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Aurora if you hate both graphics and yourself.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 15:38 |
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Infidelicious posted:Aurora if you hate both graphics and yourself. Alternatively if you want to play a game at work without anyone being able to tell the difference.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 15:39 |
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Yeah, both Shadow Empires and Aurora 4X have logistics built in. SE is much more explicit about it, but supplies, fuel, and ammo are all important in Aurora and you'll probably find yourself designing oilers, ammunition ships, and so on for long-range expeditions.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 15:44 |
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OPAONI posted:Are there any good 4x that deal with logistics? I've been thinking about my dream game and I think a 4x that is about space or sea naval logistics (building bases for refuel and resupply, docks for repair, shipyards for new ships) with a realtime tactical battle system like Sword of the Stars would scratch a lot of itches. Stellar Crusade had some massive logistics tail you had to deal with for your campaigns. You can easily play it on an emulator nowadays. (I don't think GOG has it, as it's am old Atari ST 4x. I'm just a weirdo who has both an Atari ST and the original game. Though I too play the game on an emulator, I'm not that masochistic.)
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 16:42 |
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bunch of smac talk going on in here
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 18:45 |
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There's a Battlestar Galactica game I never heard of that's described as an XCom style 4x in the BSG universe that's free on Steam. https://store.steampowered.com/app/544610/Battlestar_Galactica_Deadlock/ Is this the right thread for that or is there a better one for tactical combat/research/resource management?
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 19:53 |
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Hughlander posted:There's a Battlestar Galactica game I never heard of that's described as an XCom style 4x in the BSG universe that's free on Steam. https://store.steampowered.com/app/544610/Battlestar_Galactica_Deadlock/ Is this the right thread for that or is there a better one for tactical combat/research/resource management? The grognard thread is talking about it right now.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 19:57 |
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Hughlander posted:There's a Battlestar Galactica game I never heard of that's described as an XCom style 4x in the BSG universe that's free on Steam. https://store.steampowered.com/app/544610/Battlestar_Galactica_Deadlock/ Is this the right thread for that or is there a better one for tactical combat/research/resource management? Not an XCOM, it's a broadside battleship tactics game with a strategic layer.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 20:19 |
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Doesn’t Distant Worlds 1/2 have what would be considered logistics? Or am I misunderstanding?
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 21:18 |
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Kinda. Distant Worlds has logistics in the sense that distance matters and fuel matters in ways they don't really in most games, so strategic planning, positioning, and fuel depots are important. Combat does consume fuel but it rarely is a big deal.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 21:30 |
TheDeadlyShoe posted:Kinda. Distant Worlds has logistics in the sense that distance matters and fuel matters in ways they don't really in most games, so strategic planning, positioning, and fuel depots are important. Combat does consume fuel but it rarely is a big deal. Also the AI will occasionally go nuts and build all your freaking civilian ships in one small planet in the backwaters of your empire, creating a 2hour long queue and starving everywhere else of resources as your shipyards lie idle.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 03:41 |
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 15:21 |
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RandomBlue posted:bunch of smac talk going on in here I am into maxing out them hammers in, so The Hive is actually my favorite faction.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:22 |
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Has anyone tried explaining their turn by turn situation in Civ 5 or 6 to chatgpt and having it suggest a future strategy in terms of build and research order? You'd have to pick Civ to give it a chance since it would have most the training data. I know it isn't thinking or understanding, but within its limitations, it might not be far off surpassing the actual Civ AI, considering it could "learn" build and research strategy from all the human posts. Obviously that ignores everything else that goes into Civ.
Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 7, 2023 |
# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:23 |
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It's a language model, nothing more. You might get lucky with useful tidbits for your own play if it trawls through someone's guide online, but it can't analyze things in the way you want it to here. It's really drat useful for quickly finding something in a large pile of online data, like a super search engine of sorts, or if you want to quickly get a starting point for writing on a topic you understand well (and can quickly discard any bullshit the AI writes up, because you recognized it as bullshit), it helps skip the agony of the blank paper. After all, reading and thinking is much faster than thinking and writing. It's not a magical problem solving box, though. my dad fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 7, 2023 |
# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:31 |
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There's no AI there. ChatGPT is just a stochastic parrot.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:35 |
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I know all that, it's "AI" and nowhere close to a true AGI. But I bet it could accidentally make better decisions than a 4X AI if you gave it the right prompt in a very limited and probably useless situation.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:37 |
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Brendan Rodgers posted:I know all that, it's "AI" and nowhere close to a true AGI. But I bet it could accidentally make better decisions than a 4X AI if you gave it the right prompt in a very limited and probably useless situation. It could only repeat text descriptions of decisions that human beings had already posted to the internet. GPT is a complex Markov chain, that's all.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:39 |
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You could set up some extremely specific "If A then B", and then later say A and receive the reply B, but that's just... an echo. It does not have the capacity to understand either A or B. It would basically be a chattier notebook that can reference itself.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:40 |
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Brendan Rodgers posted:I know all that, it's "AI" and nowhere close to a true AGI. But I bet it could accidentally make better decisions than a 4X AI if you gave it the right prompt in a very limited and probably useless situation. You'd need a way to translate text to game actions, in which case you could just feed it a strategy guide directly anyway.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:40 |
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wiegieman posted:It could only repeat text descriptions of decisions that human beings had already posted to the internet. 4X AI is so bad that these Markov chains don't have a high bar to clear at all. Corbeau posted:You'd need a way to translate text to game actions, in which case you could just feed it a strategy guide directly anyway. Yeah it'd need to be integrated into the game especially to do tactical stuff.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:41 |
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idk dude why don't you try it
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:42 |
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:idk dude why don't you try it I don't know how to do it.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:46 |
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Neither does ChatGPT
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:48 |
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Brendan Rodgers posted:I don't know how to do it. google chatgpt. Type something. I use it to avoid all the crap in wikis.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:54 |
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Mayveena posted:google chatgpt. Type something. I use it to avoid all the crap in wikis. Just hope that it doesn't lie to you.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 16:59 |
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Jack Trades posted:Just hope that it doesn't lie to you. uh oh
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 17:46 |
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Speaking of game AI, has anyone played with the CICERO Diplomacy AI? It's surprisingly adept, considering it's a game completely about strategizing with other players in natural language. If you want a complex strategy game AI with a natural language model layered on top to talk about the game with (something that would be useful for a 4x that would allow for blowing past the current examples in terms of diplomacy) a Meta-style AI like that seems like the best way to do it right now. GPT doesn't really have any way to hook into the 'real world', it's all about coming up with reasonable text responses, but CICERO's got a two layered model with an actual fact-based decision making model underlying the natural language processing model. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Apr 7, 2023 |
# ? Apr 7, 2023 17:57 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:12 |
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wiegieman posted:It could only repeat text descriptions of decisions that human beings had already posted to the internet. this is either meaninglessly true or clearly false, depending how you define the state space of the supposed "markov chain"
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 18:53 |