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Vic
Nov 26, 2009

malae fidei cum XI_XXVI_MMIX
Bloodborne isn't on PC because the game's timings rely on 30 frames per second. I finished culinary trade school.

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spaceblancmange
Apr 19, 2018

#essereFerrari

Bloodborne will work on a pc emulator within 2 years. Okay maybe 5.

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

maybe pc gamers should just accept the ramifications of their loyalty to such a clownish lifestyle

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

malae fidei cum XI_XXVI_MMIX
Heard joke once: Man videochats a doctor. Says he's depressed. Says his hobby is expensive and demanding. Says he feels all cramped up sitting behind a desk hunched over like a craven recluse. Doctor says, 'Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should help you out.' Man bursts into tears. Says, 'But doctor…I am Pagliacci.' Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

HAmbONE
May 11, 2004

I know where the XBox is!!
Smellrose
Unpopular video game opinion: I am stupid and video games were more enjoyable before goons made me realize I was stupid.

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

HAmbONE posted:

Unpopular video game opinion: I am stupid and video games were more enjoyable before goons made me realize I was stupid.

Games are good and I posit that it is goons who are stupid

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Vic posted:

Bloodborne isn't on PC because the game's timings rely on 30 frames per second. I finished culinary trade school.

I can't think of any reason you couldn't force a PC version to 30 frames per second. There certainly are technical reasons why it's hard to port a game from a known, precise hardware and software environment to 'lol they could be running on anything from a potato to a top end machine with one of dozens of GPUs, two out of three of which aren't the one we tested on on the console' but it's not that.

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019

For Real!
Playing carry in mobas sucks, it's weird right because if you autofill in league you get carry 90% of the time whereas you only get support in dota, maybe offlane occasionally

The asynchronous Lane setup of dota is just
A better system tho. That was the weirdest thing going to league from dota, having the enemy carries in directly opposing lanes is so weird, and top lane is just something from league I cannot grasp

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

feedmegin posted:

I can't think of any reason you couldn't force a PC version to 30 frames per second. There certainly are technical reasons why it's hard to port a game from a known, precise hardware and software environment to 'lol they could be running on anything from a potato to a top end machine with one of dozens of GPUs, two out of three of which aren't the one we tested on on the console' but it's not that.

Oh they do it all the time, LA Noire comes to mind. And then everyone downloads a "60 FPS fix" that breaks absolutely random poo poo.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

malae fidei cum XI_XXVI_MMIX

feedmegin posted:

I can't think of any reason you couldn't force a PC version to 30 frames per second. There certainly are technical reasons why it's hard to port a game from a known, precise hardware and software environment to 'lol they could be running on anything from a potato to a top end machine with one of dozens of GPUs, two out of three of which aren't the one we tested on on the console' but it's not that.

Well the point is PC gamers would totally poo poo all over it as a lazy console port. Which I wouldn't disagree with.

They're just waiting until they can redo it, slap a "Remaster" on it and release it on PS5 and PC for 70 buckaroos.

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

JollyBoyJohn posted:

Playing carry in mobas sucks, it's weird right because if you autofill in league you get carry 90% of the time whereas you only get support in dota, maybe offlane occasionally

The asynchronous Lane setup of dota is just
A better system tho. That was the weirdest thing going to league from dota, having the enemy carries in directly opposing lanes is so weird, and top lane is just something from league I cannot grasp

all moba gamers are playing carry, they're carrying the burden of their bad decisions and poor lifestyle choices

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007

by sebmojo

Devils Affricate posted:

Yeah exactly, there's some work involved but it's trivial since everything's more or less running on the same hardware at this point. The thing keeping popular console games off of PC is 100% exclusivity deals, though thankfully those seem to be getting less popular.

I think we do ourselves a real disservice by using terms like "effort". When it comes to development teams, even the smallest change on an eCommerce site requires a gently caress tonne of effort. The real matter is cost since that's what drives business decisions and that's what funds those efforts. It's placing an overly individualistic framework over collaborative business work.

That said, the cost of porting a game isn't high, they will see a return, it's just that businesses believe they'll see a greater return by investing that money somewhere else.

satanic splash-back
Jan 28, 2009

Nobody has to call themselves an Xbox gamer or a playstation gamer. But "PC gamers" feel the need to specify because they know they're the lowest of the low and want some kind of recognition for their terrible life choices.

Redezga
Dec 14, 2006

People with a Switch don't even need to refer to themselves as gamers at all, for obvious reasons. :smuggo:

Barudak
May 7, 2007

I'm not a gamer, I'm a game.comer

fridge corn
Apr 2, 2003

NO MERCY, ONLY PAIN :black101:
I'm a playstation gamer 😎

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Vic posted:

Bloodborne isn't on PC because the game's timings rely on 30 frames per second. I finished culinary trade school.

someone was able to mod the PS4 version to run at 60fps with correct timing, if they could do it without the source code then i'm sure a port could pull it off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hDIvDPRcPA

fromsoft seem to have been steadily decoupling game logic from framerate in newer games, there's also mods to run sekiro and elden ring at >60fps on PC

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010
They should make games punish people for high framerates because they're loving nerds.

I like video games and they are fun to relax to. I'm looking forward to Redfall, seems like fun.

Also I think they should port more games to the Apple computers, I heard they don't have games, so they could use it.

Tetrabor
Oct 14, 2018

Eight points of contact at all times!

feedmegin posted:

I can't think of any reason you couldn't force a PC version to 30 frames per second. There certainly are technical reasons why it's hard to port a game from a known, precise hardware and software environment to 'lol they could be running on anything from a potato to a top end machine with one of dozens of GPUs, two out of three of which aren't the one we tested on on the console' but it's not that.

I can think of a reason Op: the developers suck rear end.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
But doctor, I am elden ring

Nice Van My Man
Jan 1, 2008

George posted:

What the gently caress are you arguing about? This is so loving stupid.

Just tell the AI to port the game and it will push the button for you.

I tried this and it said it would be too complicated without the source code, so I asked it to port Pacman to Javascript in the browser as a test and... not bad. I had to fix draw order and tell it to keep adding things like pellets or ghosts or not have pacman move through walls, but the AI wrote all the code. I think if we could just get it the Bloodborne source code as it said, by my very informed flawless estimate it would only take one week of people yelling at the AI before it made a perfect port (paste in dev console and it'll overwrite the page, arrow keys move, don't paste into a google homepage google window it doesn't like that):

code:
// Define the maze
var maze = [
    [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],
    [1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],
    [1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1],
    [1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1],
    [1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0],
    [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1],
    [1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],
    [1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1],
    [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
  ];
  
  // Get the current page's body
  var body = document.querySelector('body');
  
  // Create a new canvas element and set its attributes
  var canvas = document.createElement('canvas');
  canvas.id = 'canvas';
  canvas.width = maze[0].length * 40;
  canvas.height = maze.length * 40;
  
  
  // Add the canvas to the body
  body.innerHTML = '';
  body.appendChild(canvas);
  
  // Get the canvas context
  var ctx = canvas.getContext('2d');
  
  // Define the Pacman object
  var pacman = {
    x: 50,
    y: 50,
    startX: 50,
    startY: 50,
    radius: 25,
    speed: 5,
    color: 'yellow',
    directionX: 1,
    directionY: 0,
    score: 0,
    draw: function() {
      ctx.beginPath();
      ctx.arc(this.x, this.y, this.radius, 0, 2*Math.PI);
      ctx.fillStyle = this.color;
      ctx.fill();
    },
    move: function() {
      // Move the Pacman
      var nextX = this.x + this.speed * this.directionX;
      var nextY = this.y + this.speed * this.directionY;
      if (this.checkCollision(nextX, nextY)) {
        return;
      }
      this.x = nextX;
      this.y = nextY;
      if (this.x > canvas.width) {
        this.x = 0;
      } else if (this.x < 0) {
        this.x = canvas.width;
      }
      if (this.y > canvas.height) {
        this.y = 0;
      } else if (this.y < 0) {
        this.y = canvas.height;
      }
    },
    checkCollision: function(nextX, nextY) {
      // Check for collision with walls
      var mazeX = Math.floor(nextX / 40);
      var mazeY = Math.floor(nextY / 40);
      if (maze[mazeY][mazeX] === 1) {
        return true;
      }
      // Check for collision with power pellets
      for (var i = 0; i < powerPellets.length; i++) {
        var pellet = powerPellets[i];
        if (pellet !== undefined && nextX > pellet.x - this.radius && nextX < pellet.x + this.radius && nextY > pellet.y - this.radius && nextY < pellet.y + this.radius) {
          // Pacman collided with a power pellet
          powerPellets[i] = undefined; // Remove the power pellet from the array
          this.score += 10;
        }
      }
      return false;
    }
  };
  
  // Define the Ghost object
  var ghost = {
    x: 150,
    y: 150,
    startX: 150,
    startY: 150,
    radius: 20,
    speed: 3,
    color: 'red',
    directionX: 1,
    directionY: 0,
    draw: function() {
      ctx.beginPath();
      ctx.arc(this.x, this.y, this.radius, 0, 2*Math.PI);
      ctx.fillStyle = this.color;
      ctx.fill();
    },
    move: function() {
      // Move the ghost in a random direction
      if (this.checkCollision(this.x + this.speed * this.directionX, this.y + this.speed * this.directionY)) {
        this.directionX = Math.floor(Math.random() * 3) - 1;
        this.directionY = Math.floor(Math.random() * 3) - 1;
        while(this.directionX == 0 && this.directionY == 0) {
            this.directionX = Math.floor(Math.random() * 3) - 1;
            this.directionY = Math.floor(Math.random() * 3) - 1;
        }
      }
      var nextX = this.x + this.speed * this.directionX;
      var nextY = this.y + this.speed * this.directionY;
      if (this.checkCollision(nextX, nextY)) {
        return;
      }
      this.x = nextX;
      this.y = nextY;
      if (this.x > canvas.width) {
        this.x = 0;
      } else if (this.x < 0) {
        this.x = canvas.width;
      }
      if (this.y > canvas.height) {
        this.y = 0;
      } else if (this.y < 0) {
        this.y = canvas.height;
      }
    },
    checkCollision: function(nextX, nextY) {
      // Check for collision with walls
      var mazeX = Math.floor(nextX / 40);
      var mazeY = Math.floor(nextY / 40);
      if (maze[mazeY][mazeX] === 1) {
        return true;
      }
      // Check for collision with Pacman
      var distance = Math.sqrt(Math.pow(nextX - pacman.x, 2) + Math.pow(nextY - pacman.y, 2));
      if (distance < this.radius + pacman.radius) {
        pacman.x = pacman.startX;
        pacman.y = pacman.startY;
        ghost.x = ghost.startX;
        ghost.y = ghost.startY;
        powerPellets = [];
        for (var row = 0; row < maze.length; row++) {
            for (var col = 0; col < maze[row].length; col++) {
              // Check if the space is empty
              if (maze[row][col] === 0) {
                // Add a power pellet to the array
                powerPellets.push({x: col * 40 + 20, y: row * 40 + 20});
              }
            }
          }
        return false;
      }
      return false;
    }
  };
  
  
  // Draw the maze
  // Update the drawMaze function to draw the ghost
  function drawMaze() {
    // Loop through each row and column of the maze
    for (var row = 0; row < maze.length; row++) {
      for (var col = 0; col < maze[row].length; col++) {
        // Determine the color of the square based on the value in the maze array
        var color = maze[row][col] === 1 ? 'blue' : (maze[row][col] === 2 ? 'red' : 'black');
        // Draw the square
        ctx.fillStyle = color;
        ctx.fillRect(col * 40, row * 40, 40, 40);
      }
    }
    // Draw the ghost
    ghost.draw();
  }
  // Call the drawMaze function to draw the maze
  drawMaze();
  
  
  // Define the power pellet object
  var powerPellet = {
    radius: 5,
    color: 'white',
    draw: function(x, y) {
      ctx.beginPath();
      ctx.arc(x, y, this.radius, 0, 2*Math.PI);
      ctx.fillStyle = this.color;
      ctx.fill();
    }
  };
  
  // Create an array to store the position of all power pellets
  var powerPellets = [];
  
  // Loop through each row and column of the maze
  for (var row = 0; row < maze.length; row++) {
    for (var col = 0; col < maze[row].length; col++) {
      // Check if the space is empty
      if (maze[row][col] === 0) {
        // Add a power pellet to the array
        powerPellets.push({x: col * 40 + 20, y: row * 40 + 20});
      }
    }
  }
  
  // Draw all power pellets
  function drawPowerPellets() {
    for (var i = 0; i < powerPellets.length; i++) {
      var pellet = powerPellets[i];
      if (pellet !== undefined) {
        powerPellet.draw(pellet.x, pellet.y);
      }
    }
  }
  
  // Call the drawPowerPellets function to draw the power pellets
  drawPowerPellets();
  
  // Add an event listener to listen for arrow key presses
  document.addEventListener('keydown', function(event) {
    if (event.keyCode === 37) {
      // Left arrow key pressed
      pacman.directionX = -1;
      pacman.directionY = 0;
    } else if (event.keyCode === 38) {
      // Up arrow key pressed
      pacman.directionX = 0;
      pacman.directionY = -1;
    } else if (event.keyCode === 39) {
      // Right arrow key pressed
      pacman.directionX = 1;
      pacman.directionY = 0;
    } else if (event.keyCode === 40) {
      // Down arrow key pressed
      pacman.directionX = 0;
      pacman.directionY = 1;
    }
  });
  
  // Define the game loop
  function gameLoop() {
    // Clear the canvas
    ctx.clearRect(0, 0, canvas.width, canvas.height);
  
    // Move the ghost
    ghost.move();
    // Draw the maze
    drawMaze();
  
    // Move and draw the Pacman
    pacman.move();
    pacman.draw();
    drawPowerPellets();
  
    // Call the game loop again
    requestAnimationFrame(gameLoop);
  }
  
  // Start the game loop
  requestAnimationFrame(gameLoop);
  

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

hey siri, port bloodborne

Konar
Dec 14, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

Nice Van My Man posted:

I tried this and it said it would be too complicated without the source code, so I asked it to port Pacman to Javascript in the browser as a test and... not bad. I had to fix draw order and tell it to keep adding things like pellets or ghosts or not have pacman move through walls, but the AI wrote all the code. I think if we could just get it the Bloodborne source code as it said, by my very informed flawless estimate it would only take one week of people yelling at the AI before it made a perfect port (paste in dev console and it'll overwrite the page, arrow keys move, don't paste into a google homepage google window it doesn't like that):

AI can truly take us so far. But also don't google "javascript pacman" to get 500 pages of results of better versions (like that aren't broken and actually implement the game) that are as easy to copy and paste

Nice Van My Man
Jan 1, 2008

Yeah yeah, I should have tested it on something more obscure... Javascript Karate Champ?

Edit: It's Karate Champ game is just a red square that I can move in any direction. I'm starting to suspect you can't port triple A games by yelling at an AI until they work.

Nice Van My Man fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Apr 6, 2023

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

JollyBoyJohn posted:

Playing carry in mobas sucks

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

satanic splash-back posted:

Nobody has to call themselves an Xbox gamer or a playstation gamer. But "PC gamers" feel the need to specify because they know they're the lowest of the low and want some kind of recognition for their terrible life choices.

PC gamers don't call themselves anything, that's a label that console gamers made up to make themselves feel better about being console gamers. They don't call themselves Xbox gamers or Playstation gamers because when they do it starts a slapfight among other console gamers over which overpriced piece of hardware is the best one

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

I'm a member of a disadvantaged and often maligned demographic: gamers

Ritz On Toppa Ritz
Oct 14, 2006

You're not allowed to crumble unless I say so.
I’ve totally heard pc gamers comparing frame rate/resolution as a form of tribalism

Oh you play at only 1440p/90fps

Or maybe now with - my pc has more color lights than yours

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Ritz On Toppa Ritz posted:

I’ve totally heard pc gamers comparing frame rate/resolution as a form of tribalism

Oh you play at only 1440p/90fps

Or maybe now with - my pc has more color lights than yours

iirc there was even a Steam group whose sole purpose was to "boycott" games that were locked to 30 Hz. Hilarious

But I don't think that rises to the level of tribalism, like if you go to the Steam thread in Games no one there is going to tell you that you can't play games at 1080p. Some may refuse to do that themselves but those people know they're massively outnumbered by people who play games on older hardware

Nigmaetcetera
Nov 17, 2004

borkborkborkmorkmorkmork-gabbalooins
Are there any games like Fable II for the pc? By like Fable II I mean do they have the ability for you to become a slumlord over your subjects whom you polygamously marry without their knowledge? Also silly English accents.

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"At the end of the day
We are all human beings
My father once told me that
The world has no borders"

I mean that sounds pretty nonsense.
I play 1440p on PC, because I have 1440p monitor. I bought one, because my 3080 can comfortably run games on that resolution.
Previously I had 1070 GPU and a 1080p monitor.
If I ever upgrade to a later gen GPU (5000/6000 series) I'll also probably upgrade to a 4k monitor.

Edit: But always Ray-Tracing on high. I'll lower other settings, before lowering the rays.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

From the Steam Hardware Survey:
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam?platform=pc

65% of users are rockin' 1920 x 1080, completely unsurprising. GPUs are all over the map, but most users are on a "budget" card that's perfect for 1080p gaming: RTX 3060, 2060, 1060, etc. No hardware elitist is buying these cards. The first card I'd really consider "high end" is the 3080, hanging around at 2.6% of users, and just lol if you buy a high end card like do you just hate money or what

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

I say this as a person who has spent $40k purchasing 4 GPUs for a single desktop (with work money, they were V100s running homegrown CUDA applications shut up)

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

QuarkJets posted:

The first card I'd really consider "high end" is the 3080, hanging around at 2.6% of users, and just lol if you buy a high end card like do you just hate money or what

I feel targeted

My current bottleneck is my CPU and cooling on my surface pro (I use it for work, and instead of dealing with two machines, I just got an eGPU enclosure, a thunderbolt cable, and a 3080). Ideally I could just use my Deck and an eGPU, maybe one day.

jokes fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Apr 6, 2023

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

QuarkJets posted:

From the Steam Hardware Survey:
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam?platform=pc

65% of users are rockin' 1920 x 1080, completely unsurprising. GPUs are all over the map, but most users are on a "budget" card that's perfect for 1080p gaming: RTX 3060, 2060, 1060, etc. No hardware elitist is buying these cards. The first card I'd really consider "high end" is the 3080, hanging around at 2.6% of users, and just lol if you buy a high end card like do you just hate money or what

A lot of the high end videocards right now aren't going to gamers, there's exploding demand for discrete computational hardware in AI, since virtually all AI models run on GPUs. Just in time for all the cryptobros to stop buying them, too :unsmith:

Until recently there was never much demand for discrete computer hardware - rendering and videogames were almost the only things that required it, and manufacturers could make enough to keep up with those markets. But the demand is going to keep growing because AI isn't going anywhere, until maybe someone starts making dedicated AI cards.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Apr 6, 2023

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Ideally nobody but video game people would buy graphics cards because the prices have gotten truly insane

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

I'm expecting them to whiplash up again in a big spike over the next few years (because of AI) but also I am not an expert on economics and no one should make purchases based on my expectations. I just know that local AI models are starting to grow in popularity and capability now which means more people will be looking for video cards for their at-home AI rigs. The super high-end commercial grade video cards are all getting sucked up by big AI superclusters.

e: Ironically those super high-end commercial cards are pretty comparable in price to consumer cards right now - an A4000 is "only" $1000, which is about $100 less than a comparable 4080 (though they're built for two different purposes and aren't exactly interchangeable, an A4000 would not perform nearly as well for games), because they're not competing across two different markets (gamers + AI [I guess three if there are still people crypto mining])

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Apr 6, 2023

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"At the end of the day
We are all human beings
My father once told me that
The world has no borders"

QuarkJets posted:

From the Steam Hardware Survey:
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam?platform=pc

65% of users are rockin' 1920 x 1080, completely unsurprising. GPUs are all over the map, but most users are on a "budget" card that's perfect for 1080p gaming: RTX 3060, 2060, 1060, etc. No hardware elitist is buying these cards. The first card I'd really consider "high end" is the 3080, hanging around at 2.6% of users, and just lol if you buy a high end card like do you just hate money or what

1440p is 21% of the resolutions so it is coming up.
4k was less than 2%.

Although there's one other thing that might change how we perceive this stats:

Language (Windows) posted:


Simplified Chinese - 52.70%
English - 21.65%
Russian - 7.01%
Spanish - Spain - 3.56%
Portuguese-Brazil - 2.68%

I didn't realize how big Steam is in China. That's probably going to skew the stats a bit.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

deep dish peat moss posted:

A lot of the high end videocards right now aren't going to gamers, there's exploding demand for discrete computational hardware in AI, since virtually all AI models run on GPUs. Just in time for all the cryptobros to stop buying them, too :unsmith:

Until recently there was never much demand for discrete computer hardware - rendering and videogames were almost the only things that required it, and manufacturers could make enough to keep up with those markets. But the demand is going to keep growing because AI isn't going anywhere, until maybe someone starts making dedicated AI cards.

The graphics card models used for games aren't a great choice for AI, you can use them if you're a hobbyist and own one anyway but I can think of several better choices than an RTX 3080 if you're building a system from scratch.

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deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

Purely anedcodal, but most people I've seen discussing their specs for their local AI models are on 3070s/80s or 4080s. I assume someone interested in local AI models is probably also a nerd who plays videogames and would get some use out of a 30-series or 40-series for gaming, which would make it the better choice when choosing a card to spend $1k on. Not as good for AI, but more versatile for multi-purpose computer use. Maybe it's more of a case of someone having a high-end gaming video card, realizing they don't actually use it for much, looking for something to do with it and landing on local AI models, because that's pretty much how it happened for me :sweatdrop:

But I don't think we've hit the point where the overall public is splurging on high-end cards for AI use yet, that's probably a year or two away based on where AI is at and how fast it's developing. I was really just pointing this out as a use case for why people would buy 3080s and above right now

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Apr 6, 2023

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