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I would blow Dane Cook posted:hard to get past this Yeah batteries are more electrically efficient, but the resources required to store x KWH are much higher. To double the storage capacity of a battery, you need twice as many batteries. To double the storage capacity of some thing like hydrogen or pumped hydro you just need a bigger tank/reservoir.
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# ? Apr 6, 2023 13:54 |
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# ? May 20, 2024 22:50 |
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G-Spot Run posted:Uh yeah. It's not a secret, he gave testimony in the senate hearings about it. Saying the article about the RBAs plan reads like pure capitalism... Yes, the call is coming from inside the house. Yeah it's not a surprise, I guess I would have thought the article would include some fop to people doing it tough or at least an acknowledgement from the RBA... I haven't spent time around elite economists so I was naieve to think that they would at least say the quiet part quiet, but from their perspective, it's something to crow about.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 00:55 |
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Senor Tron posted:Yeah batteries are more electrically efficient, but the resources required to store x KWH are much higher.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 01:17 |
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I think what they meant was that a "bigger tank" is expanding the relatively simple part of the system rather than the expensive high technology bit.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 01:53 |
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and a battery takes way more time to charge than filling a storage tank
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 01:59 |
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Senor Tron posted:Yeah batteries are more electrically efficient, but the resources required to store x KWH are much higher. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ptens.html As I understand the wall tension of a pressure tank increases with size at a given pressure, meaning as you increase the surface area of your tank the cost of each square metre of surface area also increases. I don't know exactly how this balances with the non-linear benefits from the square-cube relationship in tank size.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 02:50 |
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norp posted:I think what they meant was that a "bigger tank" is expanding the relatively simple part of the system rather than the expensive high technology bit. Yeah. Most of the costs of a battery setup are in the batteries themselves, they are the expensive high tech part. In a hydrogen production/burning facility all that equipment is the trickier part, and just adding more tanks is a smaller investment. Similar to existing pumped hydro facilities. As far as I'm aware anyway no-one is really talking about massive scale energy storage from batteries. They are more to cover short drops in energy production or fluctuations than give days of redundancy.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 07:54 |
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Capt.Whorebags posted:Yeah it's not a surprise, I guess I would have thought the article would include some fop to people doing it tough or at least an acknowledgement from the RBA... I haven't spent time around elite economists so I was naieve to think that they would at least say the quiet part quiet, but from their perspective, it's something to crow about. It is insane to expect professionals to continually make inane perfunctory qualifying remarks every time they open their mouths for decorum points or something. The guy is dealing in demographic style problems, just because the ABC loves filling up every story about widespread events with an inane personallising moment doesn't mean we want the demographic altering details to be couched in and obscured by the same. Are you confused why liquid fuels remain popular over battery vehicles for cars, planes and boats despite electric motors being vastly simpler than internal combustion engines or even gas turbines or have you convinced yourself it is only due to O&G conspiracy that Emirates bought kerosene powered jets? Hydrogen gas is not even the easiest storage wise - consideration has to be given to hydrogen's precocious ability to escape as well as hydrogen embrittlement, but batteries are even less a large-scale solution for energy storage. Anyway, for those with interest in energy generation and storage, our main man Bucky started a thread on the topic https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3505076
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 08:37 |
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I do have to wonder what the cost efficiency of a hydrogen plant is when we still have hydro that hasn't been converted to act as grid storage. Isn't that massively more economical and easier?
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 08:48 |
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MikeJF posted:I do have to wonder what the cost efficiency of a hydrogen plant is when we still have hydro that hasn't been converted to act as grid storage. Isn't that massively more economical and easier? The conversion facilities are to convert electricity to hydrogen when you have surplus so that you then can convert hydrogen back to electricity (or process heat) at much higher rates. The only reason it is even being considered is because of the un-dispatchable sources of electricity that are going to dominate the Aussie grid in the next decade or so. E) wait I completely misunderstood your post. Pumped storage generally requires stuffing up waterways and great natural environments which should be avoided. It is one of the reasons the old disused mine to renewable energy hubs are such great things. Take previously disturbed but otherwise disused real estate with access and sometimes even a grid connection, then build solar, wind and pumped hydro to output dispatchable power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidston_Solar_Project is a good example. Electric Wrigglies fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Apr 7, 2023 |
# ? Apr 7, 2023 08:53 |
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MikeJF posted:I do have to wonder what the cost efficiency of a hydrogen plant is when we still have hydro that hasn't been converted to act as grid storage. Isn't that massively more economical and easier? Doesn't conversion to pumped hydro require two reservoirs to work I assume it's a significant undertaking to build a lake below an existing hydro dam
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 12:54 |
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Laserface posted:I work for a company that manages most of the NSW state gov MDM (mobile device management) Thank you for this. It's very funny to me that in schools it's super restrictive what programs you can ask kids to use, or websites you can ask them to visit, they all have to be manually approved by the department prior to any usage, because of understandable concerns about data security of children. It's great that the data security of Australia is just "lmao install whatever" for politicians. (But not Tiktok, never Tiktok, we hate Tiktok) hooman fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Apr 7, 2023 |
# ? Apr 7, 2023 13:11 |
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I think one of the reasons they were pursuing 'green hydrogen' was the ability to generate massive quantities of it in Australia and then export it to neighbouring countries. I've seen more movements on Sodium Flow batteries as energy storage than hydrogen tech though.
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 15:23 |
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Oh what a light hearted story of child labour. Get. hosed... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-08/country-kids-solve-labour-shortage-jugiong-jam-factory/102181710
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# ? Apr 7, 2023 23:43 |
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norp posted:Doesn't conversion to pumped hydro require two reservoirs to work It does, however the secondary storage can be a lot more flexible depending on what your intended use case is. In many cases it may be easier to build a second reservoir above the existing reservoir, particularly if you already have a large dam that is designed for flood control. You pop a second one up in a smallish valley/saddle further up the hill. Wivenhoe Dam / Splityard Creek dam is an example of this. It may not even be a dam, it could be a number of large tanks/reservoirs, which could be perfectly adequate for short term peak generation. I think the CSIRO did a study and found thousands of potential sites where the geography is suitable, up and down the great dividing range. You don't need a Snowy Hydro scale project to deliver meaningful results.
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# ? Apr 8, 2023 02:02 |
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you can also use old mineshafts to save digging
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# ? Apr 8, 2023 03:26 |
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thatbastardken posted:you can also use old mineshafts to save digging There's a great facility in Wales that does this, using an old mine in a mountain.
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# ? Apr 8, 2023 04:06 |
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My understanding that Australia was pushing "hydrogen" industry as this: https://www.theguardian.com/austral...drogen-to-japan Basically just doing more fossil fuels but under a different name.
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# ? Apr 9, 2023 10:29 |
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hooman posted:My understanding that Australia was pushing "hydrogen" industry as this: "Green" hydrogen is a good thing, hydrogen which is produced from renewable energy. I don't think the economics are there yet. "Blue" hydrogen, as in "blue sky", is a sham marketing term akin to clean coal or natural gas, that is used to justify more fossil fuel exploitation. Guess which one is the favoured choice of existing resource companies.
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# ? Apr 9, 2023 23:53 |
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Capt.Whorebags posted:"Green" hydrogen is a good thing, hydrogen which is produced from renewable energy. I don't think the economics are there yet. I always thought it was "blue" as in the colour of burning gas. And a way to make it sound less dirty.
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# ? Apr 10, 2023 00:18 |
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Probably. I just see it as a way of making something sound clean.
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# ? Apr 10, 2023 01:28 |
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Capt.Whorebags posted:"Green" hydrogen is a good thing, hydrogen which is produced from renewable energy. I don't think the economics are there yet. Andrew Forrest weirdly enough has been a very vocal exception, consistently calling out Blue Hydrogen as BS.
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# ? Apr 10, 2023 08:42 |
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Nice frontbench you've got there Dutton.
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# ? Apr 11, 2023 05:27 |
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I'll give credit to Leeser. Kneecapped any chance he had to get ahead in that party to stand for his principles & what's right. A rare respectable decision by a Noalition MP.
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# ? Apr 11, 2023 09:49 |
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The Guardian posted:[Jacinta] Price, the first-term senator from the Northern Territory, was instrumental in the Nationals resolving to oppose the referendum last year - which set the ball rolling for the Liberals to follow suit last week. She will also lead a well-funded no campaign from the Advance conservative lobby group. The Guardian posted:Pauline Hanson has publicly called for Price to be named Leeser’s replacement as shadow Indigenous minister.
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# ? Apr 11, 2023 10:26 |
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Synthbuttrange posted:Nice frontbench you've got there Dutton. I wish someone with a political deathwish would just come out and do this without resigning, make Dutton publicly send them back for it.
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# ? Apr 11, 2023 14:15 |
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Industrial Relations commission is very very mad at WA Nurses for striking.ABC News posted:WA's nurses' and midwives' union has been compared to Hitler in a legal dispute which it says could see it fined more than $27 million for staging a major strike at parliament house last year. Nurses vote to strike, commission tells them 24 hours before they're not allowed to, and they say gently caress you and strike anyway. WA nurses are the best, good on them and hopefully they tear down the IRC completely and reinstate our ability to loving strike in this country.
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 00:13 |
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The sheer level of political incompetence required to self wedge your party on what was potentially a complete non-issue really sets Dutton apart. He *shudder* may yet make Scumbo look decent in hindsight.
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 00:46 |
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Cartoon posted:The sheer level of political incompetence required to self wedge your party on what was potentially a complete non-issue really sets Dutton apart. He *shudder* may yet make Scumbo look decent in hindsight. Impossible, they're still unearthing things Morrison hosed up
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 01:25 |
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Cartoon posted:The sheer level of political incompetence required to self wedge your party on what was potentially a complete non-issue really sets Dutton apart. He *shudder* may yet make Scumbo look decent in hindsight. It takes more than mere incompetence to be worse than Scott.
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 11:23 |
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hooman posted:Industrial Relations commission is very very mad at WA Nurses for striking. Can the IRC levy jail time? If not, the nurses should just keep ignoring it until they win.
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 11:48 |
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Yeah, go ahead and throw the entire city's nurses into jail. If you're critical and it's illegal for you to strike that just means you throw 'gently caress you, grant us amnesty' onto your strike demands. All in.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Apr 12, 2023 |
# ? Apr 12, 2023 11:52 |
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Can the IRC levy jail time? No they can't, they can levy fines, or force the union to disband, but then lol, lmao every nurse individually wildcat strikes and what are you going to do? Fire them all? If they're going down that route then you probably also get solidarity strikes (even though they're also illegal) from other public sector unions, because at that point gently caress you entirely, and the entire structure of your bureaucracy burns down. It's kind of telling that they've been hard on the rhetoric but soft on the consequences because they know if they push too hard they just get straight wildcat action and everyone realises they're actually toothless against truly collective action.
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 13:00 |
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I grew up in the 70s and remember there being so many strikes. If you look at all the benefits and safety and good conditions we have today, so many of them stem from that period. So naturally, successive government spent that last 40 years doing everything they could to return the power to capital at the expense of the workers. The IRC was created to destroy the union movement in Australia, so it's only fair a union destroys it.
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# ? Apr 12, 2023 14:24 |
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hooman posted:No they can't, they can levy fines, or force the union to disband, but then lol, lmao every nurse individually wildcat strikes and what are you going to do? Fire them all? I've been having arguments with many a people this week about the Nurse Union strikes and the idiocy of the IRC. As a teacher in WA I would fully strike in solidarity with the nursing union if that were to happen and I'd be encouraging other teachers to do so too. We've got a public sector alliance in the state right now to help each other raise the pay and conditions of the entire public sector. If the nurses get 5%, then teachers get 5% as well. So I'm fully rooting for them. Especially since we've already begun letters of exchange for this year I believe.
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# ? Apr 13, 2023 03:12 |
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God, if this sparks something in Australia I would be so happy.
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# ? Apr 13, 2023 03:31 |
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Why would you piss off nurses? They can hurt you then patch you up so they can keep hurting you
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# ? Apr 13, 2023 04:36 |
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The nurses union is the strongest in the country. I would like to see them in a real fight. They'll win and send a message.
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# ? Apr 13, 2023 04:46 |
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Nurses Union being declared both right-wing fascists and left-wing commies is an achievement in itself. I don't think these people know what words mean.
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# ? Apr 13, 2023 05:16 |
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# ? May 20, 2024 22:50 |
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SecretOfSteel posted:Nurses Union being declared both right-wing fascists and left-wing commies is an achievement in itself. I don't think these people know what words mean. It's very straight forward if you're a liberal. It's aka Horseshoe theory.
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# ? Apr 13, 2023 06:07 |