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Vadoc posted:I was going to go to Memory Express to put in an order for my build with the 7800x3d but everyone is still without power from the ice storm. the one in etobicoke said they weren't expecting theirs for another 2 weeks  luckily I've got a busy AF easter weekend anyways so this means I won't be staring longingly at a CPU I'm not allowed to touch until sunday - hoping CC gets their stock on saturday and I can grab it asap monday
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Apr 6, 2023 20:53
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I found out that AsRock X670E PG Lightning has all the daughterboard slots that I need (4 in total with GPU, Audio, NIC, and HBA) in a configuration that makes sense for what I'm trying to do (ie. not end up with lane sharing on devices which are meant to satuate as many of their lanes as possible). It's also a fair chunk less expensive than the Gigabyte B650E Aorus Master. Pablo Bluth posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYOkJFOL5jY HUH. I didn't know these existed.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:54
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I found out that AsRock X670E PG Lightning has all the daughterboard slots that I need (4 in total with GPU, Audio, NIC, and HBA) in a configuration that makes sense for what I'm trying to do (ie. not end up with lane sharing on devices which are meant to satuate as many of their lanes as possible). Yeah it's a pretty incredible board for value compared to the competition. There's a lot of plain-jane B650 boards that are still more expensive with half the features.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:59
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Huh. https://www.anandtech.com/show/18805/amd-announces-alveo-ma35d-media-accelerator-av1-video-encode-at-1w-per-stream The predecessor card was pre-AMD acquisition, and was 264/265 so not as sexy as AV1.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:06
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I swear to god if this loving machine doesn't stop hard locking randomly every 12-36 hours I'm going to go buy a 13700K. Never in my life have I had a platform so horribly unstable. It sucks because the 7700X is an absolute powerhouse when I need it to be but the fact that sometimes it'll even crash twice in the same day and no combination of BIOS updates/reseating RAM/AMD driver updates has been able to fix it is making me think something here is just hosed and I don't have time to deal with RMAing each part individually and being down while I wait for replacement parts to get back to Canada.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:16
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ChickenWing posted:Yeah it's a pretty incredible board for value compared to the competition. There's a lot of plain-jane B650 boards that are still more expensive with half the features. So in theory, if ECC-DIMMs ever get fast enough, I can replace the memory I plan on buying. I decided against the 4800MT 16G ECC DIMMs (since I couldn't find out if running four of them lets me overclock to 6000MT without wining the M-die lottery), but even outside of that use-case, just being able to buy a single ECC DIMM to confirm things is nice, especially because I noticed that the UEFI lets you control if NMEs are generated. Pablo Bluth posted:Just announced today. Kazinsal posted:I swear to god if this loving machine doesn't stop hard locking randomly every 12-36 hours I'm going to go buy a 13700K. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 21:21
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:since I couldn't find out if running four of them lets me overclock to 6000MT without wining the M-die lottery
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Apr 6, 2023 21:24
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Combat Pretzel posted:Uh, I thought 6000MT on all channels is practically a no-go to begin with? 
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Apr 6, 2023 21:25
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Combat Pretzel posted:Uh, I thought 6000MT on all channels is practically a no-go to begin with? I hope that's not the case, since I find myself needing another 32GB (on top of the 32GB i have now).
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Apr 6, 2023 21:28
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Yeah something something signaling bullshit. Maybe it depends based on the topology, chained or T.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:36
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I don't use my PC for much more than gaming and browsing, so the general workstation task performance loss with the X3D variants doesn't matter much to me. I'm curious about streaming though, as I am on twitch a bit. Any reason to think the 7800X3D would be a bad choice for occasional streaming in a 1 PC setup? Currently have a 3900x, for comparison sake. It would be paired with a 4080.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:38
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whatis posted:I don't use my PC for much more than gaming and browsing, so the general workstation task performance loss with the X3D variants doesn't matter much to me. I'm curious about streaming though, as I am on twitch a bit. Any reason to think the 7800X3D would be a bad choice for occasional streaming in a 1 PC setup? Currently have a 3900x, for comparison sake. It would be paired with a 4080. You would use your GPU to encode the stream, so the CPU doesn't much matter for it.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:49
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2 dimms per channel works on Zen 4, but you will need to severely cut frequencies to get it stable. Officially supported speeds at 4x1R or 4x2R is DDR5-3600. At CL30, thats a 23ns first word latency lol. If you are doing anything except production tasks that require large amounts of ram and dont care about throughput/latency, you are much better off getting 2 dimms. Another reason why ITX reigns supreme!
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Apr 6, 2023 22:01
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Kibner posted:You would use your GPU to encode the stream, so the CPU doesn't much matter for it. I don't know why but for some reason I completely forgot about NVENC encoding when wavering on whether or not to pull the trigger on the 7800X3D, thank you for answering my dumb question
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Apr 6, 2023 22:05
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Kibner posted:You would use your GPU to encode the stream, so the CPU doesn't much matter for it. whatis posted:I don't know why but for some reason I completely forgot about NVENC encoding when wavering on whether or not to pull the trigger on the 7800X3D, thank you for answering my dumb question You can use x264 on OBS which is CPU encoding and that results in much smaller file sizes, but that's the only real benefit to it over NVENC. Also worth noting that NVENC uses hardware that does nothing except video encode/decode on Nvidia GPUs so there's also that.
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Apr 6, 2023 22:23
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Cygni posted:2 dimms per channel works on Zen 4, but you will need to severely cut frequencies to get it stable. Officially supported speeds at 4x1R or 4x2R is DDR5-3600. At CL30, thats a 23ns first word latency lol. Well gently caress, I guess I’m returning some RAM.
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Apr 6, 2023 22:25
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Yours is unfortunately not the first tale of woe I've heard involving Asus boards, which is why I've ended up avoiding this time - and I used to be a big fan of their products. The BIOS updating procedure on current gen ASUS boards is also incredibly under-documented and has a bunch of hidden caveats and gotchas: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/trying-every-combination-flash-my-asus-motherboards-bios
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Apr 6, 2023 22:29
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Subjunctive posted:Well gently caress, I guess I’m returning some RAM. Those are the official speeds, your mileage will vary depending on the board/ram/IMC. There are some folks that report getting all the way up to 6000 with 4x8gb on some boards. With dual sided/2R/32GB dimms, I haven't heard of anyone even breaking like... 4800.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:28
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Honestly impressed with the gigabyte b650i aorus, it's been a while since I've built a new PC but man I couldn't imagine an easier bios flash, maybe it's the standard on newer PCs, but literally just unzip, dump on drive, plug it in, press bois flash button, and done 30seconds later. I've read a lot about memory training shenanigans, first boot seemed to be a bit long, maybe 4min but that's it so far. *Knock on wood*.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:39
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Cygni posted:2 dimms per channel works on Zen 4, but you will need to severely cut frequencies to get it stable. Officially supported speeds at 4x1R or 4x2R is DDR5-3600. At CL30, thats a 23ns first word latency lol. Kazinsal posted:The BIOS updating procedure on current gen ASUS boards is also incredibly under-documented and has a bunch of hidden caveats and gotchas: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/trying-every-combination-flash-my-asus-motherboards-bios It's still incredibly  In other news, with the much-needed help of the excellent people over in the PC building thread, I've managed to arrive at the following: pre:# New components Price URI Motherboard: AsRock X670E PG Lightning ~2400 https://pg.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X670E%20PG%20Lightning/index.us.asp CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D ~3900,- https://www.amd.com/en/product/12731 RAM: G.Skill F5-6000J3238G32GX2-TZ5N ~2400,- https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/393/1665020484/F5-6000J3238G32GX2-TZ5N-Specification PSU: be quiet! DARK POWER 13 750W ~1000,- https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply/4044 Case: be quiet! SILENT BASE 802 Black (no window) ~1500,- https://www.bequiet.com/en/case/2049 Cooling: 1x be quiet! DARK ROCK PRO 4 ~800,- https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/1378 8x be quiet! SILENT WINGS 4 140mm PWM ~1300,- https://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/3703 CPU fan layout: Use both headers (for more quiet operation at idle) Case fan layout : CHA_FAN1 Using splitter: 3x top fans (exhaust) CHA_FAN2 Using splitter: 3x front fans (intake) CHA_FAN3 Using splitter: rear fan (exhaust) and psu shroud (intake, for GPU cooling) CHA_FAn4 - (to be used for future NVMe Gen5 SSD) # Existing components GPU: AsRock AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT Challenger Pro OC https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/AMD/Radeon%20RX%206750%20XT%20Challenger%20Pro%2012GB%20OC/ Audio: Asus Xonar D2X audio card (PCIe 1.0+ x1) NIC: Intel X550-AT2 10G SFP+ NIC (PCIe 3.0 x8) HBA: LSI SAS2008-8e SSD: Samsung 980 Pro MZ-V8P2T0BW 2TB https://semiconductor.samsung.com/consumer-storage/internal-ssd/980pro/ # Daughterboard configuration: PCIe slot 1 Gen5 x16 GPU PCIe slot 2 Gen4 x1 Audio PCIe slot 3 Gen4 x4in16 NIC PCIe slot 4 Gen4 x1in16 HBA M2 slot 1 Gen5 x4 SSD M2 slot 2 Gen3 x4 - M2 slot 3 Gen4 x2 - M2 slot 4 Gen4 x4 - 
BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 23:39
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Cygni posted:7800X3D still available on newegg, dang. Demand really does seem to be down, or AMD's strategy of shifting power users to the 7950/7900X3D by delaying the 7800X3D worked. Not sure when it happened, but it sold out sometime between this post and now. It definitely lasted longer than I expected, though.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:22
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Cygni posted:Those are the official speeds, your mileage will vary depending on the board/ram/IMC. There are some folks that report getting all the way up to 6000 with 4x8gb on some boards. With dual sided/2R/32GB dimms, I haven't heard of anyone even breaking like... 4800. I just didn’t want to have to find 64GB DIMMs. I guess I’ll give it a try and see how memtest feels about it.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:25
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Subjunctive posted:I just didn’t want to have to find 64GB DIMMs. I guess I’ll give it a try and see how memtest feels about it. And 64gb UDIMMs aren't on the market yet, unfortunately. Only RDIMM. The roadmap for DDR5 does include up to 128GB dual rank UDIMMs, but we are likely years away from that. The only way to get 128GB on AM5 today is with 4x32, which means you are forced to roll the dice with speed limits. It seems most of the compatability issues are ok now (at launch, 128GB did not work at all on many boards), but the speed is a different story. FWIW, I came across a few Reddit posts claiming that the new 48GB sticks actually offer the best compatibility/speeds in 2DPC mode, perhaps even running at 5200MT. Still not....great, but could be much worse.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:49
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Cygni posted:And 64gb UDIMMs aren't on the market yet, unfortunately. Only RDIMM. The roadmap for DDR5 does include up to 128GB dual rank UDIMMs, but we are likely years away from that. Here's the Anand article on when 1DPC vs 2DPC can - the take-away being that unless you're doing memory-intensive workloads (ie. not gaming, the opposite of what the X3Ds are best at), it doesn't really seem ilke it's gonna matter? EDIT: That doesn't cover EXPO/XMP speeds, though - which is where it might introduce real issues? Speaking of EXPO/XMP, if a DIMM says it supports XMP, does it mean it supports EXPO too? BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 01:53
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I went with the 2x32GB for my build because I'm hoping that eventually we'll see UDIMM with not just on-die ECC but real-ECC at some better speeds. Yeah, for DDR5 in particular, 2x2R is superior to 4x1R at the same clocks based on what I've seen. 2x2R also lets run much higher clocks, in general. I think it was Wendell who said its best to consider Zen4 a single dimm per channel platform except in specific use cases, and thats probably a good way to think about it. EXPO is a slightly different standard than XMP, as EXPO includes more subtimings. But all the AM5 boards I've looked at so far support both standards (it may have a different name in the BIOS to avoid royalties, like ASUS and DOCP). I looked pretty quickly and it seems prices for GSkill specifically between the Z5/Ripjaws vs Z5 Neo/Flare (XMP vs EXPO) are pretty close, anywhere from zero to $15 different at the same timings. If it was me, I think I would consider spending the few extra bucks just for the ease of not dealing with those subtimings.
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Apr 7, 2023 04:20
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Pablo Bluth posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYOkJFOL5jY why wouldn't AMD gpus get a built in AV1 encode/decoder like they already have for h265, and AMD video encoding isn't really that trash.
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Apr 7, 2023 05:35
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Their newer 7xxx GPUs do have a AV1 encode/decoder. Its supposed to be pretty good actually and is comparable to the Intel or NV AV1 support overall. The 6xxx GPU's had it too but it wasn't as good as NV's or Intel's. Wasn't exactly bad either though but some people like to blow things out of proportion.
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Apr 7, 2023 06:26
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The thing with this card is that it is an order of magnitude more efficient than gpu encode/decode (35W for 32 simultaneous 1080p60 decodes!) while also producing higher-quality encodes with just 2 - 8ms of latency. EposVox talks a lot about the usefulness of these features for home users or small independent operations, but i feel like the dual-asic card is a bit overkill for those purposes. I wonder if AMD would create a single-asic version at an even lower cost for home users. Also, I'm not sure how much encoding latency factors into the wider latency picture for cloud gaming, but I wonder if this could help make that more responsive.
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Apr 7, 2023 06:40
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Cygni posted:Yeah, for DDR5 in particular, 2x2R is superior to 4x1R at the same clocks based on what I've seen. 2x2R also lets run much higher clocks, in general. I think it was Wendell who said its best to consider Zen4 a single dimm per channel platform except in specific use cases, and thats probably a good way to think about it. It doesn't look like the low-profile Flare kits exist in 2x32GB though. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The thing with this card is that it is an order of magnitude more efficient than gpu encode/decode (35W for 32 simultaneous 1080p60 decodes!) while also producing higher-quality encodes with just 2 - 8ms of latency. EposVox talks a lot about the usefulness of these features for home users or small independent operations, but i feel like the dual-asic card is a bit overkill for those purposes. I wonder if AMD would create a single-asic version at an even lower cost for home users.
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Apr 7, 2023 09:44
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From the diagram they showed, it seems like each ASIC has four encoder units, two of which support h264, h265, and AV1, and the other two of which support only AV1. They use two of the same ASICs to double max throughput I guess, so one should be capable of all the same things as two, just with half as many possible simultaneous operations.
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Apr 7, 2023 09:49
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I'm an Asus user from the period when the option to format an USB drive and press a button wasn't available (or if so, only at the absolute high-end) so I'm intimately familiar with that.
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Apr 7, 2023 09:57
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Combat Pretzel posted:Eh, YMMV. I have an X670E TUF from Asus, and it ate my USB3 flash drive from Samsung formatted with exFAT just fine. At least with the flasher inside the UEFI. —edit: IIRC, I even used a front panel connector. That was unheard of in the past. The chipset is also dead now, and the PSU is likely suspect.
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Apr 7, 2023 10:40
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Jim Keller's saying that Zen 5 is supposed to have a 20% IPC improvement, what? I'm not sure if I can really trust anything the guy says in public anymore honestly. https://www.tweaktown.com/news/90980/amd-zen-5-cpus-will-be-very-fast-this-is-leak-you-should-sit-up-and-listen-to/index.html
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Apr 7, 2023 15:51
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The Asus motherboard I was talking about was from 2011, and used the P67 chipset. I remember that P67 chipset and its loving SATA flaw. I had issues returning my P8P67 from Asus for a Rev. 3 version. The dipshits took it to the back of the shop and miraculously found bent pins in the socket, that I'm fairly certain weren't there when I put the plastic lid back in. Caused some in-store drama.
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Apr 7, 2023 16:10
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necrobobsledder posted:Jim Keller's saying that Zen 5 is supposed to have a 20% IPC improvement, what? I'm not sure if I can really trust anything the guy says in public anymore honestly. 20% is roughly the IPC uplift from Zen 2 to Zen 3, isn't it? Zen 5 is said by a few different sources to be AMD's most radical architectural overhaul since Zen 1. So maybe? Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 16:19
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Its a strange thing to lie about. He doesn't work there anymore
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Apr 7, 2023 16:45
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Seems to mesh well with the other reports of 15-26% IPC improvement for Zen 5. Zen 5 vs Arrow Lake gonna be wild, double digit framerates in Cities Skylines at fast speed lets goooo.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:17
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That card is for hardcore media nerds who need a TON of decode/encode bandwidth. It's overkill for 95% of "streamers". It does have value though for those that can utilize it.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:23
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Stanley Pain posted:That card is for hardcore media nerds who need a TON of decode/encode bandwidth. It's overkill for 95% of "streamers". It does have value though for those that can utilize it. I saw the chat around it and was really confused. What enthusiast needs 3+ simultaneous encodes, let alone 32? Isn't the encoding case for gamers 1 stream, and even for a Plex server with a lot of friends 4-ish tops?
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Apr 7, 2023 17:38
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Twerk from Home posted:I saw the chat around it and was really confused. What enthusiast needs 3+ simultaneous encodes, let alone 32? Isn't the encoding case for gamers 1 stream, and even for a Plex server with a lot of friends 4-ish tops? It's for Twitch. Like, the company. Not the users on either end.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:40
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