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Has anyone been to Montenegro? I will be flying into Podgorica, renting a car, and have 4 full days to explore the country before leaving. I am thinking about driving directly to the Kotor area, staying there for a night or two, and then heading inland to Durmitor National Park to go hiking.
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Apr 3, 2023 09:31
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Busy Bee posted:Has anyone been to Montenegro? I will be flying into Podgorica, renting a car, and have 4 full days to explore the country before leaving. We spent 8 days there last summer. 4 days is really short for both Kotor and Durmitor. IMO just spend all 4 of those days in Kotor Bay. 100% do that if you are visiting soon in spring. My impression of Durmitor: it was nice but how impressive depends on where you live / what you have done previously in life. We did like the Tara river rafting, and we have not done a lot of rafting. The difficulty varies from "fairly casual guided float" class III rapids in late summer when we did it, to supposedly reasonably difficult class IV rafting in early spring where you need to make at least basic effort to not fall out of the boat but no experience is necessary in either case. For hiking, we did Crno Jezero/Black Lake and then the hike up from there to uh... some trail, like 8 hours in a loop but not as far as Bobotov Kuk. Crno Jezero was nice but it would be like #543 on a list of the 1,000 most beautiful Alpine lakes of Switzerland. The first part to the Black Lake is on a paved trail and was packed with people, the rest of the hike was OK but entirely forgettable, at least for someone like myself who has hiked a lot in the Alps. For scenic driving, we liked the P14 road going south of Durmitor connecting Zabljak to Pluzine, it's really very scenic, and would probably be like... #28 on the 100 most beautiful mountain passes of Switzerland. The towns in the hills/mountains/backcountry are authentic and extremely different from the coast, but not particularly cute or interesting. For Kotor: the bay really is amazingly stunning and it compares at least on par with the biggest and most impressive mountain lakes in the Alps. There are tons of places with incredible views, and the towns on the lakeshore are all super cute (and super touristy). 4 days was enough to reasonably visit most of the bay+surroundings but not exhaustively, e.g. we did not go to Cetinje. IMHO spend all 4 of your days in the Kotor area. If you want to get a feeling for Durmitor, just hike up Lovcen and visit Cetinje instead of trucking it way out to Zabljak. If you want to hike and exercise there are plenty of coastal hikes with serious elevation change that will have better views than Bobotov Kuk. Wonton posted:Lutherans and Protestants are Christian IS, smashing so many works of arts. Thank goodness the Vatican wasn’t as affected Are you a time traveller? An interdimensional being stuck in another timeline? Saladman fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Apr 3, 2023 |
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Apr 3, 2023 12:04
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Saladman posted:We spent 8 days there last summer. 4 days is really short for both Kotor and Durmitor. IMO just spend all 4 of those days in Kotor Bay. 100% do that if you are visiting soon in spring. Thank you very much - I was also wondering whether it would be better to just stay in or around Kotor Bay instead of going further inland. Where did you stay while you were in Kotor? Did you do any interesting or memorable hikes around the Kotor bay area?
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Apr 3, 2023 12:12
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Busy Bee posted:Thank you very much - I was also wondering whether it would be better to just stay in or around Kotor Bay instead of going further inland. The Ladder of Cattaro is the famous hike in that area, and you can continue up higher from there (check AllTrails). There was another hike to Sveti Andrija from Perast that also looked nice, 800m elevation gain. We didn’t look too much though since we went in August and I’m not hiking starting from sea level in The Mediterranean in August. We stayed in Orahovac. Kotor was cute but I wouldn’t want to deal with parking or driving through there every day, and half a day in the town is more than plenty, it’s tiny. Depends what season you’re visiting in though, if going soon then the smaller towns like Orahovac might be ghost towns.
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Apr 3, 2023 12:38
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Saladman posted:To continue Italy talk: has anyone been around Puglia? We go there for 9 days/nights in early June, with the last 3 days being a wedding way at the bottom in Otranto. I spent about 4 days there from memory, though we didn't go to Bari or any of the larger cities. Matera is quite cool, though I guess it's more crowded these days because of the Bond movie that was filmed there. Alberobello with the trulli houses was pretty interesting, though as I recall there were two main groups of the trulli houses in town, and the larger one was just a complete tourist trap. Most of the "houses" were occupied by souvenir shops selling shot glasses and fridge magnets, lots of flag-following groups around, and apparently a lot of the "ancient" trulli houses weren't even that old. Supposedly it's a common day trip for all of the cruise ships that stop in Bari. But there was a second group of the houses which was super quiet and basically just locals only. Castel del Monte was .. okay? I guess? It's kind of cool to see an octagonal castle, with octagonal turrets and so on, but iirc there's not much inside, and it's basically a 2 hour stop at most (probably less). I know this isn't a ringing endorsement of the area, but we definitely had a good time there.
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Apr 4, 2023 13:10
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webmeister posted:I spent about 4 days there from memory, though we didn't go to Bari or any of the larger cities. Matera is quite cool, though I guess it's more crowded these days because of the Bond movie that was filmed there. Yeah that's what I was afraid of with Alberobello, if even bloggers were saying "it's touristy but still so cute" it probably means it's overwhelming, since travel bloggers are only ever negative about a place if they were actively robbed or kidnapped. Locorotondo looks like it might be more up our alley, similar enough and outside of the cruise ship ring of death, if I can remember how many "o"s the city's name has to type into the GPS. I think I might be saturated on castle visits unless they have some distinctive historical draw, are in beautiful natural landscapes, are "living fortresses" with at least a little bit of real modern life ongoing, like Carcassone or Obidos, or if there happens to be a special event going on with people in costume and people selling say, skewered pigeons roasted over a flaming barrel. I'm not into renfairs in the way that people who are into renfairs are, but I do like going to them if they're around. mobby_6kl posted:I liked Bari well enough, there isn't that much touristy stuff but it's nice to hang out there for a few nights. The opposite side from the port is pretty walkable. Matera and Alberobello are good day trips. I don't know if it's really necessary to spend two nights in Matera though. If you like castles try Castel del Monte, I didn't make it there as I decided not to rent a car, but it looks nice. Maybe check out Taranto if you're going south. Yeah, not three nights for Matera itself, but more the first day we get in late to Bari (5pm) then have to drive there and check in, so a second night lets us actually see Matera, and a third night lets us go to Craco and/or Pietrapertosa both of which are the types of sites that my wife likes and I love -- little scenic villages in the middle of mountainous nowheres, especially I can fly a drone and get cool landscape shots. I often post photos of little villages like that on Wikipedia, since they often have rubbish photos from like 2009 when digital cameras were made out of crudely cut rocks and potatoes. Well, not that often, but I've probably done photos for like... 10 or 20 villages in Switzerland and a handful more in random places I've been on vacation. I google street viewed around Matera and it looks like they massively, massively reduced car access (or at least car parking) in the old city between 2020-2022. Thanks COVID for massively accelerating the restriction of cars into European cities and the irreversible conquest of street parking spots into cafe terraces. I do love driving but I simultaneously hope governments continue to crush drivers' access to all city centers with an iron fist.
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Apr 4, 2023 15:11
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Loco Rotundo is my gunfighter name
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Apr 5, 2023 14:54
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Regarding Alberobello, I think this was the less touristy side, even though it's directly across the mega-touristy part (on the left from that parking lot). It's pretty compact though so you can easily move where you want. I took a train to Matera but there's definitely some parking available nearby. Locals seem to drive somehow on the tiny old-town streets but it's probably only accessible for residents.
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Apr 5, 2023 16:01
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It looks like central Madera has been under ZTLs at least since 2008, which is the oldest streetview of the area. Italy actually has pretty good online maps of ZTLs: https://www.accessibilitacentristorici.it/ztl/Basilicata_en/matera/mappa! Given how touristy it is, I bet Matera's will be enforced pretty strictly, and also I don't really mind if I have to walk a few minutes a couple times. I assumed public transport in that area would be terrible, but I really enjoy driving in the Italian countryside and around little villages so I didn't look very hard either.
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Apr 5, 2023 20:46
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We had a car when we visited Matera and I don’t really recall having issues parking nearby and walking in, so it’s probably fine.
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Apr 5, 2023 22:55
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Will be in Salzburg, Austria for ~3 weeks for work next month, open to any suggestions for stuff to do on the weekends. I'll have a car as well so if there's something worth making a drive for, I'd be interested in that as well. Places to avoid, restaurants to visit, etc., appreciate any info!
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Apr 7, 2023 00:38
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Hellbrunn Palace is worth seeing, especially if you get to see the fountains too
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Apr 7, 2023 00:56
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Seems like one of the few places to visit where you go aww shucks when you realize you'll be visiting in spring instead of winter
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Apr 7, 2023 01:11
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I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but my brother suggested trying out ChatGPT for travel tips and holy poo poo is he right. It makes figuring out tourism itineraries like a million times easier. Instead of either having to follow the single same tourist hitlist that every blog uses, you can just ask it for lesser-known sites and it finds things that I did not see after spending like 10 hours reading about Puglia. I tried feeding it some of the more recent posts here, both mine and others', and it does a way better job than regular Googling. After questioning it quite a bit I don't think it's as good as asking people who actually have done a significant amount of traveling in a specific area, but it knows way more than locals tend to about their own areas, except for the rare people who actually know anything about the region in which they live. It also does as good of a job as people who do enjoy tourism but only have cursory experience about an area, like its response to busy bee's initial series of questions for Montenegro was as detailed as mine, but for her detailed questions ("which hikes to do in Kotor bay") it gives way better / more detailed info. ChatGPT posted:There are several great day hikes you can do in the Kotor Bay area during the summer. Here are a few options: Also I ragged on rich people from poor countries not knowing anything about tourism in their countries a while ago, but honestly it's just as bad in Switzerland and probably the rest of Europe. Most Swiss people I know have been to (a) their home town, (b) one single ski town where they have gone every year since they were kids, (c) they had to go to Bern on a school trip once, and (d) one specific place that they like and go to all the time in summer. You'll get way more useful travel tips asking an average Swiss person about Italy than you would asking them about Switzerland, especially anything on the other side of the terrifying Röstrigraben. Anyway, RIP travel forums.
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Apr 7, 2023 09:44
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dphi posted:Will be in Salzburg, Austria for ~3 weeks for work next month, open to any suggestions for stuff to do on the weekends. I'll have a car as well so if there's something worth making a drive for, I'd be interested in that as well. Places to avoid, restaurants to visit, etc., appreciate any info! Farther out you Zell Am See is a nice town with mountains and a lake, might be worth staying there or nearby for a few days and going to drive up Großglockner or Krimml Waterfalls. Hallstatt is super touristy but worth checking out IMO. Kölnbrein dam is supposedly pretty cool but I didn't make it there so can't confirm myself. Probably a shitload of other hiking stuff if you're into that. kiimo posted:Seems like one of the few places to visit where you go aww shucks when you realize you'll be visiting in spring instead of winter E: Saladman posted:I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but my brother suggested trying out ChatGPT for travel tips and holy poo poo is he right. It makes figuring out tourism itineraries like a million times easier. Instead of either having to follow the single same tourist hitlist that every blog uses, you can just ask it for lesser-known sites and it finds things that I did not see after spending like 10 hours reading about Puglia.  Bing just messaged me out of the blue on Skype this morning so I fed it the same prompt that I guess you used: quote:There are many great day hikes to do in the Kotor Bay area during the summer. Here are some recommendations: mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 11:12
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dphi posted:Will be in Salzburg, Austria for ~3 weeks for work next month, open to any suggestions for stuff to do on the weekends. I'll have a car as well so if there's something worth making a drive for, I'd be interested in that as well. Places to avoid, restaurants to visit, etc., appreciate any info! I really suggest signing up for ChatGPT ( https://chat.openai.com/chat - free) or using Bing and giving it a go. It gives a decent level of detail to the basic question, and you can easily ask follow-up questions to tweak answers to fit specifically what type of stuff you like doing, e.g. "restaurants to visit" can be easily modified with certain types of cuisine, price ranges, places with terraces/views, etc. For weekend trips it even did a good job of figuring out which hikes are accessible in May. Here are some suggestions for day trips from Salzburg that you can consider during your visit in May: ChatGPT Response to "what are good daytrips from Salzburg in May" posted:Hallstatt: Located in the picturesque Austrian Alps, Hallstatt is a UNESCO World Heritage Site known for its stunning alpine scenery, historic charm, and beautiful lake. You can stroll through the quaint streets of the village, visit the Hallstatt Salt Mine, take a boat tour on Lake Hallstatt, and enjoy the breathtaking views of the surrounding mountains. You can also press it for more / longer lists.
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Apr 7, 2023 11:50
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I just tried asking ChatGPT some questions outside of famous travel destinations and then suddenly you see it starts fabricating information. Its knowledge of Algeria was super basic and its knowledge of more specific questions like "how can I rent a car in Ethiopia" pulled up a mix of incorrect information and outright fabrications:ChatGPT posted:Hertz: Hertz is a well-known international car rental brand with a presence in many countries around the world, including Ethiopia. They offer a wide range of vehicles for rent, including sedans, SUVs, and 4x4 vehicles. Yeah, nope. Hertz and Europcar don't operate in Ethiopia and never have. The other three: ChatGPT posted:Sunshine Car Rental: Sunshine Car Rental is a local car rental agency in Ethiopia that offers a range of vehicles for rent, including sedans, SUVs, and buses. They have multiple locations in Ethiopia and offer competitive rates. Are complete hallucinations, and are not even remotely real companies.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:01
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Well yeah, it's just pulling from other travel websites and such, and where it can't find information to just copy it will cheerfully invent something that sounds roughly like real advice. I'd hope folk are double-checking anything that echo box tells them.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:06
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HopperUK posted:Well yeah, it's just pulling from other travel websites and such, and where it can't find information to just copy it will cheerfully invent something that sounds roughly like real advice. I'd hope folk are double-checking anything that echo box tells them. Yeah, but you have to do that even with personal recommendations unless you know that person very well and know that you and they have similar preferences (or that they know yours and know the area very well). It’s also going to be better at local knowledge for nearly everywhere unless you’ve lived in the area for at least a few weeks and have done a lot of tourism. I tried it for places I’ve lived and I know more, but for places I’ve only been for a week or two like Kotor or Naples? It’s way better than asking me. I also didn’t find invented info when looking for places like Italy or Japan. For places like Algeria and Ethiopia it started inventing details very quickly.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:30
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dphi posted:Will be in Salzburg, Austria for ~3 weeks for work next month, open to any suggestions for stuff to do on the weekends. I'll have a car as well so if there's something worth making a drive for, I'd be interested in that as well. Places to avoid, restaurants to visit, etc., appreciate any info! I know it's pretty cliche to just go straight to beer but the Augustiner bräu beer hall & garden is fantastic. My wife and I stayed in the old town when we visited, and it's about a 30-minute walk to and from there, but the walk was along the river and it was so pleasant going there, seeing Salzburgers living life outdoors, getting a few drinks in a communal setting, then walking back and people-watching again. If I was going to be in Salzburg for three weeks I'd probably spend an inordinate amount of time there. The Mozart museum was interesting, though small. Budget maybe an hour for it.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:48
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FWIW, I've been using https://www.perplexity.ai/ instead of ChatGPT for a little while now. It's pretty comparable in terms of responses, but it gives you it's sources by default. There are links below the output with footnotes in the text. So it makes it easy to double check things or find a new place to just browse for things I never thought of asking, which is the way I've always enjoyed using the internet.
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Apr 7, 2023 13:42
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Judgy Fucker posted:I know it's pretty cliche to just go straight to beer but the Augustiner bräu beer hall & garden is fantastic. My wife and I stayed in the old town when we visited, and it's about a 30-minute walk to and from there, but the walk was along the river and it was so pleasant going there, seeing Salzburgers living life outdoors, getting a few drinks in a communal setting, then walking back and people-watching again. If I was going to be in Salzburg for three weeks I'd probably spend an inordinate amount of time there.  You can walk along the hilltop, from the fortress to the beer garden as well. Nice views from up there and most of the walk is shaded.
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Apr 7, 2023 15:20
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Thanks for the reqs all, some I had noted already but many I hadn't so I appreciate it!
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Apr 7, 2023 15:59
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Has anyone here ever done a road trip in the Balkans? Specifically, Albania, Kosovo and/or North Macedonia? I've traveled to the Croatia, Bosnia, and soon to Montenegro but I'm curious about the other places I mentioned. And regarding the ChatGPT discussion - I also recently started to use ChatGPT to help with travel ideas as well. I would say around 10% to 20% of the time it spits out incorrect things so for the topics I don't know much about, I'm always careful to double check before I take it as fact. But the rest of the time, I am very very impressed with the answers it provides. For example, even asking something like "I plan on traveling to Country X on X date with my girlfriend. We would like to rent a car and drive for a maximum of 3 to 4 hours a day. We like X, Y, and Z but we do not care for nightlife. Can you give us some recommendations and a day to day itinerary?" And then afterward you can keep asking it to refine the answers - "Okay, can you please add the distance and time we will be driving per day?" "We would prefer not to have to drive from A to B on that day, can you change it?" It's quite impressive and I would recommend it to anyone here.
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Apr 7, 2023 18:08
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Hey goons hope you all have a good Easter and good European vacations. Thanks this thread for recommendations and trips
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Apr 8, 2023 07:01
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dphi posted:Will be in Salzburg, Austria for ~3 weeks for work next month, open to any suggestions for stuff to do on the weekends. I'll have a car as well so if there's something worth making a drive for, I'd be interested in that as well. Places to avoid, restaurants to visit, etc., appreciate any info! I like Salzburg a lot and think there's tons of stuff to do there. These will be pretty car specific since I like driving in the Alps. Depending on what kind of car you have, might be useful, might not be. In May a lot of the mountain passes should start to open, but check weather forecasts and whether individual destinations are open or not. Berchtesgaden and Königssee were already mentioned. They're really close by and easy to reach. You can visit the Kehlsteinhaus, and take a boat ride on the Königgsee. There's a private road called B999 that costs about 10€, but has a cool ridge that borders Germany and Austria, and is a fun drive. There's a public road 305 from Berchtesgaden to Bad Reichenhall that's also fun and has great views. The Grossglockner road has amazing views, but it'll likely take an entire day. Zell am See is close by, has a cable car with good views. Dachstein is just bit to the south from Salzburg, also has a cable car with great views. Stubai is a bit further out, close to Innsbruck, but another destination with a cable car and great views. If you're willing to do overnight trips, there's passes like Timmelsjoch, Jaufenpass, Stelvio Pass, Brenner Pass next to or in Italy. Munich is a fairly short train ride away. Neuschwanstein Castle is doable as a day trip, but you probably need to book well in advance.
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Apr 8, 2023 13:53
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I haven't personally been in Salzburg, but my brother went last year, and he told me the hiking trails there are excellent. You'll be going around the time they might be opening up.
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Apr 8, 2023 14:21
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If you're going to visit Hallstatt, make sure you get there ridiculously early, like 7am kind of early. We got there about 7am and were among the first handful of cars in the carpark. The town was very empty and peaceful, but gradually filled up and by 10am it was like Venice meets Disneyland. It's a super small, compact place, so there's basically nowhere to go outside like three different streets. We had walked the streets, done a bunch of photography, visited the classic viewpoint, taken a boat ride on the lake, and then bailed by 11am. At that point there was a mile long queue for the carpark and absolutely no space!Saladman posted:I really suggest signing up for ChatGPT ( https://chat.openai.com/chat - free) or using Bing and giving it a go. It gives a decent level of detail to the basic question, and you can easily ask follow-up questions to tweak answers to fit specifically what type of stuff you like doing, e.g. "restaurants to visit" can be easily modified with certain types of cuisine, price ranges, places with terraces/views, etc. For weekend trips it even did a good job of figuring out which hikes are accessible in May. I actually really dislike ChatGPT and the other AI-powered search engines. I get why they're handy and I can totally see the value in how much it's simplified the info gathering process, like what you've done above. My issue is more that - my wife runs a very successful travel website, built around personal experience and solid research. She's by far the #1 site in her niche, and it's taken her 8+ years of work to get to this point, where it generates a comfortable full-time wage with fairly minimal maintenance (aside from writing now content of course). But now the people behind these AI search engines are using her content to "train" the AI, meaning that it will read and digest her content, then display it in response to a search query usually without any credit or attribution. So she won't get paid for any of this, despite spending hundreds of hours writing, developing, researching and maintaining the content. And nobody can explain to me why that isn't piracy, or just outright theft. I know the Bing one has a couple of small pity links at the bottom, but nobody's going to click those because they've already been shown the information they need - content creators generally hate the "Google Snippets" thing at the top of search results, for the same reason. And honestly - OpenAI is one thing, but the Google and Microsoft ones will soon be covered in sponsored content, affiliate links and all sorts of money-grubbing poo poo. So they'll be making millions off someone else's hard work. Sorry for the semi-offtopic rant, but this is a real pet hate of mine.
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Apr 9, 2023 01:56
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webmeister posted:
I totally agree with your point, I guess it still is a grey area with regards to copyright and all that. There should be a way that the real content creators are paid from the AI creators. To be fair I guess people do also like the AI search engines because it is actually good at finding relevant info: the last few years any google search mainly brought up ad websites with automatically generated filler content for SEO, whereas before you could find actually useful websites and blogs. What is your wife's site by the way, if you don't mind?
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Apr 9, 2023 04:21
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Chikimiki posted:What is your wife's site by the way, if you don't mind? It’s travelnuity.com, focused on pet friendly travel particularly in Australia (where we live)
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Apr 9, 2023 05:23
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I just typed Hallstatt in google maps to see where it was and I discovered just out of town there's a hiking area called "Arschlochwinkel", aka "rear end in a top hat Corner". German language wikipedia says it actually exists and it got this name because in the 19th century locals got annoyed by surveyors asking all the time "what's that place called" and started making up poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2023 11:12
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Whoa, just learned that there's a salt mine in Berchtesgaden (near the lake/Eagle's Nest) that I haven't been to: https://www.google.com/maps/place/S...%2Fg%2F120wr20f There's also an ice cave that was closed when I was there (and according to google still is) but maybe keep an eye on it: https://www.google.com/maps/place/E...16zL20vMDZzZHpt Good suggestions on Hallstatt. You can also go for as swim in the lake if the weather is nice enough, there's a beach on the little island, close to the parking P1. Carbon dioxide posted:I just typed Hallstatt in google maps to see where it was and I discovered just out of town there's a hiking area called "Arschlochwinkel", aka "rear end in a top hat Corner". German language wikipedia says it actually exists and it got this name because in the 19th century locals got annoyed by surveyors asking all the time "what's that place called" and started making up poo poo. 
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Apr 9, 2023 18:40
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mobby_6kl posted:You won't believe some of the names that Austrians have, those dirty bastards! You'll have to not believe it. That city was wiped off the map during COVID. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugging,_Upper_Austria
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Apr 9, 2023 19:07
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Apr 9, 2023 19:24
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Man Florence is fun, it’s like history lover’s Disney land. It’s also surprisingly clean and tidy compared to Rome and Naples. I didn’t have Florentine steaks last Time but this time I already ate at 2 places. Unfortunately the city center is practically hollowed out huh  but the Easter procession and seeing the canon cart fireworks was a fun sight. Sure it’s not big mega fireworks, but the religious experience and morning light and smoke makes the display a very personal one
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Apr 9, 2023 22:20
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mobby_6kl posted:You won't believe some of the names that Austrians have, those dirty bastards! You can drive from Wank to Kissing to Petting to (ex) loving in like half a day. 
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Apr 10, 2023 00:17
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DanTheFryingPan posted:You can drive from Wank to Kissing to Petting to (ex) loving in like half a day. So long as you then head for Wedding.
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Apr 10, 2023 00:29
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That was literally a Top Gear episode. Or Grand Tour, not sure, but Clarkson/Hammond/May at any rate.
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Apr 10, 2023 07:47
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Has anyone here been to Kosovo? How was it?
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Apr 10, 2023 17:50
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webmeister posted:I actually really dislike ChatGPT and the other AI-powered search engines. I get why they're handy and I can totally see the value in how much it's simplified the info gathering process, like what you've done above. My issue is more that - my wife runs a very successful travel website, built around personal experience and solid research. She's by far the #1 site in her niche, and it's taken her 8+ years of work to get to this point, where it generates a comfortable full-time wage with fairly minimal maintenance (aside from writing now content of course). I've been disliking it for other reasons, and this adds to my list. There's a D&D thread where you might want to share this. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4027671
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Apr 10, 2023 19:50
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