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Ox has basically stated outright that he sees his job as winning the case for his side regardless of the actual truth, so I'm betting he's more of a useful idiot for the conspiracy than an actual agent. If this is the case he wouldn't need to be directly corrupt to be culpable under Brian's logic, since he'd naturally ignore any holes in the testimony. That said, I could also believe he's corrupt as hell and just good at faking it, he seems like the kind of person to be good at thinking on his feet and keeping his cool under pressure.NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Even Mouse deserves to be here? Wow. I've been wondering for a while if Brian's motive is actually to get vengeance for his father, since the ending slides are pretty clear that the narrator isn't actually interested in a bloodbath. Him claiming this just reinforces this since there's no reason Mouse would be connected to the trial itself, but it's possible she has connections elsewhere that aren't as obvious. Right now my current guess for a final route plot twist is that Brian's father actually did commit the murder but the victim was a major part of the blackmail ring and what Brian's trying to expose isn't the coverup but the whole secret conspiracy behind it.
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Mar 30, 2023 23:08
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Ox's point of view is not exactly wrong. A lawyer's first goal should be to get the best possible result for their client, no matter what the truth is. In this case, his job as a prosecutor was to convince the jury that Brian's father had committed the murder. Solving the case wasn't his job. The evidence was stacked against the guy, so it makes sense he'd be convinced he was guilty, which would make it easier for him to push for a guilty verdict, but it's by no means necessary.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:04
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Cloacamazing! posted:Solving the case wasn't his job. If Ace Attorney has taught me anything, then yeah, that's the defense's job!
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Mar 31, 2023 14:47
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 [BGM: Hear No Evil]  With that, Dragon and I were left in an empty classroom.  What a poo poo situation for him. Yeah. I don't see this ending well. True. Well, better him than me, I suppose. Let's get back to looking for the Minor Trinkets. Is that the right move? What are you talking about? I mean, we want to make sure the most people live through this, right? It seems to me like this poisoner is a big deal, don't you think? Shouldn't we try and find out who it is ourselves? Eh, Ox said he had it. He can say that, but who knows if he actually does? Sure, if he had enough time he'd probably be able to figure it out, but he's on a real time crunch. Our help might be able to provide some insight he won't be able to find in time! This seems like a pain. But I guess it beats searching through empty classrooms, huh? Alright, why the hell not? Let's play detective. I was always good at sniffing out rats in my crew. This shouldn't be too different. Sniffing out rats? You know, snitches, cowards, the like. Can't have them around, you know? Makes us look weak. Maintaining control's all about having every link of the chain be strong. If I might ask, how did you figure out who the rats were? Oh, I didn't do anything special. Bit of intimidation. Bit of violence. Really, whatever worked. Yeah, I think we might need a different strategy here. Really? We might get pushback from the group if we get that, er, extreme. Fine. Whatever. You can lead our investigation. You're a lawyer or whatever. Law student. Same diff. You're smart, so you can be the lead. I'll just be your backup. You know? I like the sound of that. Mouse and Dragon – the Dynamic Duo! Partners in seeking justice! And that's enough of that. ...Okay. So, how do we start this 'investigation'? Umm... So the setup for this route (and how you get your different endings) is a lot more overt this time around, so I'll just lay the cards out on the table – it's connected exclusively to how well Mouse and Dragon's investigation goes. I'll get into the proper breakdown in this route's bonus update, but to summarize you basically have to hit different flag points across different sections of the investigation in order to get the best outcome/ending. Similar to Tiger's route, I'll be making all the right choices in this initial go through, and then in the bonus update I'll show the other outcomes you could get based on what flag points you do or don't hit. Since we're this far into the game, you should probably already have a pretty solid idea of who to investigate (and who to not bother with), but we'll be starting with... How about we try and talk to Tiger? She might have something useful to say. Might being the word to focus on. But sure, I don't got a better idea, so why not? We're in agreement then.With a target in mind, we left to talk to Tiger. After a bit, we ran into her on the second floor. She was searching a classroom all by herself. [BGM: Queen of the Jungle]   Mouse! Dragon! Great to see you two! How's the Trinket search going? It, uh, it could be going better. I'm sure it will be. By the way, not that I mind the visit, but is there a reason you two are here? Hold on a second. Tiger, where's Snake and Rooster? Those two? They're searching the classroom next door. You're not all staying as a group? We're mostly staying as a group. But everyone needs a bit of space, you know? I don't think we need three people to all be searching the same room. But there's a reason that– ...You know what, never mind. Uh, getting back to what I came here to say, I have to ask you something Tiger. Do you know anything about 'Kavka's Toxin'? Kavka's Toxin?Tiger's face was blank with confusion. A single phrase, and I could tell she didn't know what we were talking about. Figures. Well, even if that was a dead end, there were actually two avenues to try and explore. You know what? Bad question, forget I asked it. Okie dokie, forgotten. What I really wantred to ask you is if you know anything about corruption. Corruption? We have reason to believe there was some, er, foul play involved somewhere in the case with Brian's dad. Do you know anything about that? Foul play? Uh, no, I don't know much about that. Are you talking about in the events before Brian's dad became a murderer? Or about how the trial was handled? Either? Both? We're not really sure. That's pretty vague, Mouse. I know, I'm sorry. I was pretty uninvolved in all of that stuff. If I had to say anything, I guess I'd tell you to look at the Chief Prosecutor. I actually had, er, a bit of legal trouble in the past. I met with the Chief Prosecutor, and let me tell you, that lady was ferocious. The Chief Prosecutor pretty much has complete authority over all criminal trial matters, prosecution side. I would think if there was foul play, it would have something to do with that. Oh, but you're a law student, aren't you Mouse? So I guess this is pretty much all old news to you. It's still nice to hear. You were in trouble with the law? Seriously? I know! Crazy story. Definitely a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Good thing one of my friends was good friends with the Chief of Police. That really smoothed things out. Chief of Police? What does that have to do with anything? You don't know? The Chief Prosecutor and Chief of Police are incredibly close. It's beyond a working relationship, I think they're close friends or something. Anything the Chief of Police wants, the Chief Prosecutor can handle, and vice-versa. That... sounds like corruption. Of course it's corruption. Fuckin' pigs. I think it's nice to be loyal to your friends. Anyways, I know this was all probably useless, but that's the best I can say. I actually think that was pretty helpful, Tiger. Thanks for talking. No problem! If you don't mind me asking,why are you trying to figure this out? Let's just say there's... a pretty immediate need to sort this stuff out. Until we can clear some stuff up, our Minor Trinket hunt has gotta be put on ice. On ice? Th-there's ice involved? It's an expression, moron. Oh, right. God, you are all muscles-for-brains, huh? Whatever. Come on Mouse, we're done here. Thanks for the info, Tiger. Good luck on your search for Minor Trinkets. Good luck with searching for whatever you're searching for![BGM: Silence]  And like that, Dragon and I returned to the classroom we came from to debrief. What a waste of time. I don't think so. What, did Tiger's talk 'bout the Chief Prosecutor really open your eyes? It might have. At any rate, I didn't know about the connection between her and the Chief of Police. That could be relevant. Maybe. Man, who would've thought Tiger had legal troubles in the past? It is surprising. Wonder what that's about? Who knows? Crazy.Dragon rolled her neck. She took out a lighter with a Red Dragon emblem on it and began spinning it around in her fingers. God. If ever there was a time for a smoke, it'd be now.[BGM: Mourning Crow]  Wish I had some cigarettes on me. You know those are horrible for your health, right? Oh really? I think you're the first person to tell me that. ...Sorry. There are already enough occupational hazards to my health. I don't think the risks of smoking really tip the scale too much.She lit the lighter and stared at the flame for a bit. That's a nice lighter. It was my boyfriend's. You have a boyfriend? I had one. Oh. Did you break up with him?Dragon shut the lighter and put it in her pocket. He's, uh, he's not with us anymore. Oh. Oh. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to– It's fine. I'm over it. But you know, I still get these thoughts. If I hadn't let those drat Scorpions get so uppity... Scorpions? You know, Mouse, all of life is a struggle over control. Who has what amount of it. If you're not controlling other people, you're being controlled. And if you don't actively try and gain control, it's your fault when you're powerless later in life. Life's a fight that never stops. Let up in a fight for a second, and your opponent can gain ground. In that spirit, the more time we stand here talking about jack all, the more time the poisoner gets to make their next move. Come on, let's get back to investigating. Oh, uh, sure thing. As for who to investigate next....[BGM: Silence]  While you'd probably assume Bunny is the next option considering, well, he's a cop, there's actually someone we know who's good friends with the Chief of Police- and Mouse knows it too, since she searched with him earlier and heard him talk about it...  Let's go try and talk to Dog. That dude? Are you sure that's a good idea? I don't know if that guy's even paying attention half the time, and his life's on the line just like ours. You really think he'd be a good resource for info? I think a big clue is going to come from the Jade Emperor's seemingly mocking speech. We need to investigate who this 'tool of corruption' is. Dog's an ex-cop, and he's friends with the Chief of Police. That makes him a good lead. Really? I knew there was a reason I didn't like him. Look, let's just find him.We began to look for where Dog was searching. Eventually, we stumbled across him on the third floor.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:42
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might post an extra update over the weekend bc this is a pretty short update and also im impatient 
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Mar 31, 2023 16:43
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...huh. I'm not sure if this is Ox or Dragon's route now. That's a lot of exposition from Dragon.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:51
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Okay, now I'm more on the side of Ox being less purposely corrupt, if he did fix the trial it was probably on his boss' orders (and man, what a net, the Chiefs of Police and Prosecution involved with a big businessman, who could have thought). Also more confirmation Tiger got away with her mother's murder due to a connection to the conspiracy. also Dragon don't be a party pooper, be PI buddies with Mouse, she can be the sensible one and you can be the wild one
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Mar 31, 2023 16:54
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Not how I was expecting this one to go, but hey, it's neat. I appreciate that there's so much variation in the routes, it makes each feel truly unique. Assuming Ox isn't corrupt himself, I wonder if he knows his boss is corrupt. He talked about working with ambitious people who wouldn't hesitate to take your job when you fail--maybe he's not just covering his own rear end, he's waiting for the opportunity to do that himself. I do love how single-minded and oblivious he usually is though; Ox is almost always advocating ignoring whatever else is going on and just searching for trinkets. Only when there's an extremely obvious threat does he seem to break from that mindset.
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Mar 31, 2023 18:44
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Oh, an easily missed part but since we just did Tiger's route...Mix. posted:
Oh! ...oh. 
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Mar 31, 2023 18:49
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So i'm guessing the way this route works is that if you fail, ox finds out who the poisoner is, kills them, drinks their blood and dies, because lol, lmao the toxin is funky like that. If you find out enough you essentially go "lol, look at this idiot who fixed the trial on corrupt orders" and he decides to die which saves his life.
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Mar 31, 2023 21:01
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Cloacamazing! posted:Ox's point of view is not exactly wrong. A lawyer's first goal should be to get the best possible result for their client, no matter what the truth is. If Ox knows a witness is going to lie when asked a question, he's theoretically required to not ask, even if there's no chance for the lie to be caught
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Mar 31, 2023 21:58
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 [BGM: Dog Days]  He was investigating a student commons. Bunny and Pig were searching together on the other side of the rather large area. We approached Dog. Hey, Dog. Mouse. Dragon. I guess you're here now. That we are. Neat. Not, uh, curious as to why? I figure if you wanted me to know you'd tell me, and if you didn't you wouldn't, even if I asked. Um, well, we're trying to figure something out. Do you know anything about Ox being poisoned? Oh, that whole thing? Ox was already here. Made a big fuss about it. And what did you tell him? Told him the truth. I've got no idea what that's about. Anything else? Nope, that's the gist of it. I hope it sorts out well though. I like Ox. You seem pretty unbothered by a thing that's going to end in a death, one way or the other. Oh, I am bothered. But I don't see what crying's going to do for us now. Figured I'd be way more useful continuing my job. How about you told us about the Chief of Police? You're close with him, right? Bowen? Yeah, I know a thing or two about him. Why should I tell you, though? Because it could be really useful? I suppose, I suppose. … You know what? I'm bored. It's been too long since I've gambled.Dog took out a pair of dice from his pocket and put them on the nearby table. Woah! Where'd you get that? There was a whole bin of them in one of those mathematics classrooms. Let's play a little game. A game? The hell are you talking about? It's real simple. First, I'll roll one die, and cover it with my hand. Next, I'll roll another one. You take a look at the other die, and you guess if it's a higher number or a lower number than the one you can see. Guess right, you win! Guess wrong, you lose. If the numbers on both die are the same, I win by default. But hey, that's only a 1 in 6 chance, you know? Understand? Uh, yeah, I guess. Great. Then let's play. What? You can't be serious! Why can't I be? I'm bored. If Mouse wins the gamble, I'll say whatever you want to know about Bowen. Why can't you just help us normally? I'm a very private person, Mouse. You can't just ask me to spill private details for nothing. Besides, the rules of this gamble definitely favor you. So, ya know, you'll probably win. I... I guess I don't have a choice. Alright then, bring it. Ey, that's what we love to see. Love the spirit on this one. I can't believe you're wasting our time with this poo poo. Kick his rear end, Mouse.And like that, Dog began his waste of time. First, he rolled one of the dice. It seemed like a fair roll. As it was coming to a stop, he slammed his left hand on top of it. Alright, my die is set. Now let's see what your die is.With his right hand, he rolled the second die. Our attention was completely pulled in as it bounced up to the edge of the table. It was... a 5! Ah, drat. Not great for me. Well, for formality's sake, guess I'll ask: Higher or Lower? This is a little bit of meta-knowledge, but we know Dog absolutely can and will cheat whenever it comes to this kind of thing. We also know that he does his best to hide his cheating when it suits him, so he'll sometimes cheat sub-optimally to give him the best advantage, but not a guaranteed win. Therefore, with that in mind, the correct answer is... ...Higher. Mouse? What are you doing? Trust me.Dog looked stone faced as he lifted his left hand. His die was... a 6!!  Well, how about that. Seriously? What are the odds? It's not a matter of odds. It's a matter of Dog being a shady bastard. What are you talking about, Mouse? Oh, don't play coy. This game was too simple, too dumb for it to be pure luck. You were definitely cheating somehow, even if I didn't know the specifics. Well... you know, maybe when people's attentions are distracted by one die roll, turning over a die under your hand undetected isn't the hardest feat. You loving serious? You know if you tried to pull that poo poo in some places, you'd get shot. Which is why I don't pull that poo poo in those places, just with drunkards. Anyways, you won the bet. Hit me with what you want to know. Okay, um, so... what can you tell us about Brian's case? Was there anything, well... off about it? There was plenty off about it, I'll tell you that. Rare we get such clear cut answers as to who the killer is. That Morris guy really could've used a bit more time to plan his scheme. Are you certain he did it? Mouse, everyone's certain. It was painfully obvious. Still, didn't stop the Chief of Police from going in on the suspect. I heard plenty from him, about the late nights he'd spend interrogating the suspect. Morris didn't crack, though. Never got a confession out of him. Did Chief Bowen act strange at all regarding the case? 'Course he did. It was his brother that was murdered. Although... I suppose his attitude did start to shift at one point. Oh? Yeah, now that I'm remembering, it was rather strange. As time went on, Bowen got less angry and more... what's the word... antsy? He just seemed antsy about it. I remember I heard him talking to himself one night at the bar. He said something strange. 'Either way, I just need to put that brat in jail and publicly end the case'. Yeah, that's not something a fair defender of justice is prolly supposed to say, huh? I'd say. Thank you, Dog, that's exactly what I was looking for. Well, glad to be of service. You know, you're a surprisingly good gambler. I need to play you again sometime. If we both get out alive, I promise I'll take you up on that offer. What do you know. A reason to try.And just like that, Dog went back to his search. [BGM: That Pesky Rodent]  Dragon and I reconvened back in the classroom we started in. That certainly was insightful. Maybe. Still, even if he had good info, it pisses me off that he toyed with us by making us play that stupid rear end game.Dragon stretched out her arms and cracked her knuckles. She drummed her fingers on the nearby cabinet. What's our time looking like? Well, it's definitely the fifth round already. But there's still a bit of time before this round ends. We have a bit more time to investigate. And after that? We're going to have to come to a choice. You mean about killing someone. … You know, if we're wrong, we're just going to be committing murder for no reason. The person who poisoned Ox has to be one of the traitorous personalities, right? If we do nothing, we're just letting that person take one more step towards their objective. We aren't going to be able to get through this without any violence. We just need to make sure that the violence is directed towards the right targets, so there can be as little of it as possible. drat. That's cold-blooded. I didn't think you had it in you. How is wanting the fewest number of deaths to occur cold-blooded? Maybe cold-blooded ain't the right word for it. It's... pragmatic. It's a very realist take on the situation. I was just worried you were going to be one of those hippie, 'we need to get everyone out alive' types. I mean, I would like it if everyone could get out alive. Yeah, well, that ain't happening. Not with things like this. I guess you're right... You said we had some more time to investigate? Yeah? Alright then, where should we go?[BGM: Silence]  We can only speak to one more person, if it wasn't obvious. The last person we can get relevant information from is, well... Let's go try and talk to Bunny. Bunny, huh? I guess that wouldn't be so bad an idea. But are we sure he's actually gonna give us any useful information? Even if he does know something, I bet he'll be evasive about it. Well, that's where you come in, right? If you think he's being shady, you just have to come in and apply some good ol' fashioned pressure. I bet if you get up in his face, he'll fold in an instant! I'm not sure things'll go that smoothly. Eh, what the hell. Not like we've got a better plan. That's the spirit! Is it?And so we began to look for where Bunny was searching. Eventually, we ran across him on the third floor. He was still investigating the student commons. He and Pig were still looking around together, while Dog searched at the other side of the room. [BGM: Lucky Foot]  We approached Bunny and Pig. Hey Bunny. Pig. Mouse!Noticing us, Bunny walked over and stood right next to Pig.  Oh, hi guys. What brings you around here? Y-yeah, why are you here? Can't we just be checking in to see how you're doing? Of course you can, we'd love that. But Ox isn't with you, and you're not looking for Trinkets. Isn't that, um, super weird? You've got us, Pig. We're actually here to talk to you about something really important. You see, someone's used a really scary Trinket on Ox. He's going to die unless we can figure out who used it. Y-you don't say? Really? Well gosh, that just sounds horrible! Who would do something that evil? Yeah, who? Whoever did something like that should be ashamed of themselves! How evil! How villainous! I just wanted to ask if you two knew anything about this. Know something? Us? Sorry to say, but we've just been focusing on finding Minor Trinkets. We don't know anything about what you're talking about. What Bunny said! We know nothing about any Trinkets or poison or anything. So you don't really need to bother us about this. Oh, well... The choice you make here is important, but not that hard to figure out considering what we already know. Where have you searched for Trinkets already? Like, what rooms have you looked in? The Spanish classroom on the second floor!Subtle.  … Yes, well, we've looked through there, as well as the French and German classrooms. We've also looked in some of the offices here on the third floor, and we've been looking through the student commons as well. I'd say we've been making good progress, how about you Pig? Yes! We definitely have. And have you found anything yet? Unfortunately, we've yet to strike anything useful. You'd think we'd have at least found something by now. Weird, huh? Yes, weird indeed. Alright, well, thanks for talking with me I guess. Let us know if you find anything important. Will do.... Mouse, is that really it? Yeah, I want to check something.I walked down to the second floor with Dragon.  Then, I went into the Spanish classroom. What are we doing here? Pig was acting super conspicuously through our whole conversation. Then she blurted out this room. I wonder...I began to search through the classroom for anything conspicuous. Before too long... I found it. Here it is! What? A safe!Poorly hidden behind some textbooks, I pulled out a small, cheap looking safe. Obviously, it was locked with a passcode. But that didn't matter to me. Merely finding this safe was enough. Come on, let's go. What? But we just found a safe! There probably won't be anything in there anyways.I walked with Dragon back to the classroom we started at. When we got there, Dragon had questions. [BGM: Silence]  What was that about? Bunny and Pig lied. They said they hadn't found anything, and yet there was a locked safe poorly hidden in a room they claimed they searched. There's no way a group of three misses that. Those bastards! Why would they lie to us like that? I can think of one reason. Then you think? In all likelihood, that's what happened. poo poo. Still, I think there's more to this story that we need to find out. Yeah, I guess you're right.Dragon sighed. After zoning out for a couple seconds, she looked back at me. So, what now? We're running out of time. I'm not sure we have much more time to investigate. At that moment, Ox entered the room.  Ah, found you two. That's convenient. Ox! Hey, would you mind joining me in the cafeteria as soon as you can? I'm trying to gather the whole group. Sure thing. If you haven't, input your actions for this round. I'm not sure how long the meeting will last, but it might go through the end of the round. Cool, but, uh, how're you doing with the whole 'poisoned' front? I have made some progress on that front. There is a... partial solution. What do you mean? We'll talk in the cafeteria.And without another word, he left.  That was odd. Agreed. Let's input our actions for this round and go join up with the others. Got it.And so we did just that.
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Apr 4, 2023 01:36
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Ah, the classic "I didn't say it was poison" gambit, except it's just pig being 300% a moron
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Apr 4, 2023 02:19
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Pig posted:What Bunny said! We know nothing about any Trinkets or poison or anything. So you don't really need to bother us about this. Well well well. Mouse never mentioned that Ox was poisoned. 
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Apr 4, 2023 02:37
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Okay, thanks Pig. Not sure how this group convinced her it's to test how Ox acts under pressure. Not even to help determine whether Ox is innocent. Sure, why not! Dragon is only being a sounding board here, so I still think it's Ox's route.
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Apr 4, 2023 02:41
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fatsleepycat posted:Well well well. Mouse never mentioned that Ox was poisoned. I mean, interrogating Pig is basically tutorial mode. Also Dog was so nonchalant in this update I'd almost forgotten he's still a traitor.
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Apr 4, 2023 05:28
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I'm curious how Bunny convinced Pig to go along with him on this; she's not a traitor on this route, and we've seen how reluctant she is to get her hands dirty on her own route. Which suggests either Bunny's convinced her that Ox had deserved, convinced her best shot of survival is to team up with him as the traitor (seems less likely), or that the trinket mentions the trick, and Pig is convinced that the death won't happen (since all Ox has to do is nothing to survive). It'll be interesting to see if we get a choice related to upcoming events and who (if anyone) should be killed, since we know the correct answer is to kill no one, but Mouse, Dragon and Ox have every reason to believe they need to off the traitor.
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Apr 4, 2023 14:17
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Remember that both Bunny and Dog are in the group with Pig. It's two traitors to one innocent who's not very good at standing up to pressure.
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Apr 4, 2023 15:21
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Another thing is that everyone is assuming a kill is required. All it said was that the killers blood was the antidote. Ox could get everyone to provide a sample and drink an std cocktail to "cure" the poison without killing.
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Apr 4, 2023 15:55
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ApplesandOranges posted:Remember that both Bunny and Dog are in the group with Pig. It's two traitors to one innocent who's not very good at standing up to pressure. I assume Bunny had to just glare at Pig and she was like "okay yeah I'll do whatever you say"
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Apr 4, 2023 16:27
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Plus, anyone can win with the first place traitor, it's the last place traitor they have to watch out for. If Bunny reveals he's the traitor, hey team up with me, and you'll survive, to Pig, as long as Pig thinks Dog is innocent, she's safe if she does team up with Bunny.
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Apr 4, 2023 18:16
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also bunny is a cop and pigs gotta stick together, ya know
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Apr 4, 2023 18:50
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FoolyCharged posted:Another thing is that everyone is assuming a kill is required. All it said was that the killers blood was the antidote. Ox could get everyone to provide a sample and drink an std cocktail to "cure" the poison without killing. quote:It said: 'You've been poisoned! Your veins are now infected with Kavka's Toxin. This deadly venom will kill you at the end of the next round. Your only chance for survival is to drink the antidote. What is the antidote, you may ask? Blood from the dead body of the one that poisoned you.'
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Apr 4, 2023 20:45
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Derp. Missed that bit
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Apr 4, 2023 21:04
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 content warning: suicide [BGM: Silence]  As usual, I just pressed 'run'. Then I went to the cafeteria with Dragon. Dog, Bunny, Pig, Horse, Sheep, and Monkey were all there. Separate from the group stood Ox. [BGM: Ox's Logic]   Mouse. Dragon. How kind of you to join us here. Oh, don't mention it. I can't help but notice we're missing some people. I wasn't able to locate Snake's group in a quick fashion. However, I believe that this should be enough. So, what're we doing here? Ask him.Horse gestured to Ox. He's clearly the one running the show. Right. Ox, I don't mean to be pushy, but could you tell us why you gathered us here?  Well, first off, I thought we all already agreed to meet up in the cafeteria anyways. Oh! That's right, we did say that. Sorry, I kind of forgot. We did too! Just totally slipped our minds, whoops, how clumsy. Whatever. As many of you know, a Trinket has been used on me. At the end of this Round, I will be executed. No! However, I can still survive if I find out who poisoned me. Really? But... how are you even possibly going to figure out who poisoned you? Do you know already? Are you psychic? …Ox breathed a sigh of heavy responsibility.  I have spent much of my life acting as a leader. A reformer. Even back in middle school, I turned my class of delinquents into model students. I grew up in the rough part of Hightower. I saw how out of control it was. And that's why I became a prosecutor. By helping to shape the judicial system, I could help control society. It's admittedly a hard and uneven job. Control is a difficult thing to maintain. But it has to be maintained, or else people will fall to their vices. That's the natural progression of things. With that in mind...[BGM: Steadfast Gallop]   ...I will now be taking control of this group.As he said this, Ox pulled out a pistol with a silencer. Woah! What the hell?! Where did you get that? On the second floor. It was hidden particularly well in one of the classrooms. It is... disturbing to me that I was able to find it, and makes me worry what else may be stored in this building. However, none of that particularly matters at this point. After all, a mere pistol elevates me to being the biggest threat in the room. What are you going to do with that? Perhaps this is selfish of me, however, I do not wish to die yet. If I can live by killing my poisoner, then that's what I shall do. So then, let's begin. Ox, hold on a minute. Do you know who poisoned you? Admittedly, I am not yet clear on the culprit's identity. Then don't worry. I know everything. Well, that seems a bit like hyperbol- Everything. O-Okay then. You have the floor. Thank you. So, I tried to investigate who could've poisoned you. Ahem. Er, Dragon and I tried. In particular, I tried looking into what Brian meant when he was talking about 'a tool of corruption'. He said your death would come about by 'the one who helped a malicious cover-up'. And he called it ironic, which I thought was a particularly strange word choice. How could something like that be ironic? And there was a lot of distancing words involved there... 'Your death will be caused by the one.' Why not 'You'll be killed by'? What are you getting at, Mouse? As I investigated, I found out many interesting things. For one, I heard that the Chief of Police, Chief Bowen, wanted to close the case quickly, without incident, no matter what. That he did. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty fishy to me. I also heard that the Chief of Police and the Chief Prosecutor are very close. Close to a point where they'd cover for each other. I am not supposed to lend credence to such rumors. ...However, I cannot deny the rumors, per se. Anyways, that's when it clicked with me. I realized why Brian called the person a 'tool of corruption'. Because they weren't the ringleader. They were just someone used in a larger scheme. They were you, Ox. What? In the grand scheme of things, you're fairly young for a prosecutor, Ox. And this case happened a few years ago. So how did such a fresh faced prosecutor land the lead prosecuting role in a fairly high profile murder trial? Well, I showed a lot of promise from a very young age. I was top of m- Ego talking. No one in the real world gives a poo poo about all of that. How would you know, you're still a student! Ox, I hate to tell you like this, but you were chosen because you were easily controlled. You were naive, and inexperienced enough that the Chief Prosecutor was easily able to rig the trial in your favor without you even noticing. What?! There's no way that's true! Why would the trial even need rigging? Everything pointed towards Morris! Exactly! I haven't heard of a single case which reached trial with a plea bargain that was such an open-and-shut case. To fight something like this, it's always because the defense sees weakness in the prosecution's case. And my father was not a dumb defense attorney. So how was everything smoothed over so well? I don't know, but that doesn't mean I did anything wrong! Ox, I can't claim to know what's really going on with that trial. However, there was something fishy about it. And, like it or not, you helped cover it up. That can't be! Ox's face was flushed with anguish. I felt bad, but it was the truth. So wait, then why did Brian say he'd be killed by himself? No, that's not what he said. Brian was saying it'd be Ox's fault. Ox's potential killer, however, is someone entirely different. That would be the poisoner. And I also know who that is. For real? Bunny, Pig, you two told me where your group had searched. Would you agree that those searches were fairly comprehensive? Mostly, yeah, I'd like to say we did a fair job at that. Then I assume you stumbled across the locked safe in the Spanish classroom, then? Locked safe? Oh, that locked safe! Yeah, well, we tried to crack it, but we just had no clues on how to open it. Ultimately, we just dismissed it as a red herring. No you didn't. There's no way you thought a locked safe was a red herring. You know what I think? What? I think you already opened that safe. I think you found Snake's Major Trinket, and it let you poison other participants. I thnk you re-locked that safe, and you poisoned Ox. What? That's ridiculous, Mouse. We searched that room as a group. If I did something like that, surely Pig and Dog would've seen it. Oh, but they did. That's why you're keeping Pig at arm's reach at all times, right? Because you're threatening her to keep quiet, or else you'll stab her with a knife. Ridiculous! You're the victorious personality, right? That type can win with two other people. That's what you promised Pig and Dog if they cooperated, right? Such wild theories. Pig, Ox has a gun right now. If Bunny tries anything, he'll be shot. Tell us, is he threatening you? … He is! He totally is! Bunny has a traitorous personality and he poisoned Ox and he told me that if I said a word about it he'd stab me with his knife and I was so scared but he prom- Okay, we get the gist. Well, what do you have to say to that, Bunny? Tch. Okay, maybe I have a traitor personality. But I wasn't the poisoner! Wait, what? I made Pig use Kavka's poison! She was the one who activated the Major Trinket, so she's the one who needs to die if you want to live Ox! Th-that's totally untrue! Think about it – why would he bother going through with that? He knew he'd be dead one way or the other if he was caught anyways! It's a nonsense claim. I did it so you'd be fully onboard! Don't try to weasel your way out of this! Or do you want Ox to die? Well, I don't want to die! So you admit you're lying to try and kill Ox to save yourself! What? No, no, that's not what I meant.[BGM: Silence]   Okay, I have a confession to make. I pressed the button. That's right, it was me. So just put a bullet through my head and we'll be done with this. This is certainly turning out unpredictably. Wh-what should we do? Mouse? Okay, so we're already locked into what ending we're getting – and there's not much difference between the two options here on that front, either – as what this choice actually boils down to is whether we want Ox to live here. That said, we already know the deal with Kavka's Toxin – if Ox drinks the blood of the person who pushed the button, he'll be executed on the spot. The thread seems to like Ox a lot, so I'm going with the choice that ensures Ox will live... I think Bunny's argument makes the most sense. It's a sensible precaution. Yeah! That's what I'm saying! I told you it was me. Dog, I have a hard time understanding why you went along with all of this in the first place. Why me? Seemed like something to do. Like hell that's your reasoning. You've got the other traitor personality, don't you? Oh no, you've caught me. Why are you debating this, Ox? I already told you who you need to kill if you want to survive. If I want the group to survive, I already know who I have to kill.*bang!* Ox held up the gun to Bunny's head and fired it right between his eyes. I immediately turned away, but I could hear the body hit the floor. People screamed. Ox turned to Dog and fired again. More screams. I wasn't looking. Ox, you have to believe me, I really didn't input the code! I wish I could believe you, Pig. I wish I could.*bang!* Gunfire. A body hitting the floor. Deathly silence. ...Slurping. Wait, slurping? Ew, was Ox drinking Pig's blood?! gently caress, that was what he had to do, wasn't it? God, that's disgusting! gently caress you, Brian!  Hopefully that should do it. That was horrible! How can you do such things with a straight face? Believe me, I can only maintain my composure due to years of training. I feel like fainting after that. I... don't think I will be okay for quite a long time. But at least we will all live for a long time thanks to that. Was it necessary? I believe so. But Pig... Pig was willing to risk all of our lives to save her own. I can empathize with her decision... but if you make that choice, you have to be willing to accept if things go the other way.[BGM: Mousetrap]  He said that, but I had trouble looking right at him. What had happened was... horrifying. To act in cold blood like that... How could Ox do such things without blinking? With that settled, the rest of the race went fairly plainly. Dog and Bunny turned out to be the ones with deviant personalities, so there wasn't any need to be suspicious of one another. We only needed to find a total of nine Minor Trinkets with those three dead, so we reached our goal much faster. After that, we all just used the Trinkets each round until we escaped as a group. It should've been a happy ending. Nine of us got out alive. ...No, it was a happy ending, wasn't it? But I felt so cold. It was hard for the events involving Pig and Ox to sit right with me. So for the rest of the race, I kept my distance with the other members. And even after we had all escaped, I was determined to not talk with any of the others ever again. In the end, Ox, Tiger, Snake, Dragon, Horse, Sheep, Monkey, Rooster, and myself got out alive. But Bunny, Dog, and Pig died. And I couldn't help but wonder if I could be happy with this ending.  [Ending – 3 of Spades]  If someone with a deviant personality gets their hands on Kavka's Toxin, they will start by targeting a perceived threat. In this case, that would be Ox. However, Mouse may be able to determine the identity of the poisoner, despite confusing interference. In that case, the deaths present in this version of the race will be minimal. Unfortunately, they won't be the right deaths. And so, we search for another path.
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Apr 5, 2023 23:11
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The right deaths? Just what is red voice’s agenda…? Also, wow, that was an intense yet short route. Wild.
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Apr 6, 2023 01:21
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Binged through the thread. I looked at it before but kinda bounced off it ( part the premise seeming a bit generic), but giving it another look it’s grown on me a lot. Tonally it’s all over the place and some things don’t really make sense, but it’s kinda interesting how the different routes are almost playing completely different games and how hard it commits to a theme on a given route. Horse is the Terminator on his route. Monkey is Hannibal Lecter on hers. Dog is Kaiji on his. Bunny’s route is Survivor. etc etc. Some of them are definitely better than others, but the variance is pretty ambitious.Mix. posted:
Going back to this (Dog’s route) with what we know from Roosters’ route I like to imagine that he spend half his time setting up elaborate Rube Goldberg machine murder rituals, then walks into a room and finds out that all his revenge targets are already dead. Also I’m wondering if the jurors were selected not because they were knowing participants of the conspiracy but because they were beneficiaries of it. Either in covering up their own crimes, or in propelling them to undeserved success. If this game was really about punishing those responsible for Morris’ death then uuuuuh the guiltiest parties seem conspicuously absent (the chief of police and chief prosecutor). Ox’s route makes it seem like he wasn’t deliberately corrupt, he was just a useful idiot for them to prosecute a dodgy case. Tiger’s “sin” might not be that she was manipulated into providing dubious testimony, but that she was absolved of killing her mother. Sheep’s “sin” might not be providing false testimony, but silencing the rumours and reputation that arose after her brother’s death. Pig got maximum points for her confession, and sure she confessed how she condemned Morris but she also confessed about all the ways it had benefited her. Dog said “ I lied during the testimony I presented during Mr. Morris' trial.” during his VS game with Ox and that statement was revealed as being a lie. i.e. He told the truth in court. And JE is overseeing the whole challenge so is vetting the authenticity of their statements. So Dogs’ sin might not be that he condemned an innocent man, but that he managed to escape consequences for things he did wrong himself. He was a cop in a hyper corrupt police force and managed to get out and start running a bar. Yeah he seems depressed and broken about things, but it’s a near certainty that he did some terrible things and got away with them (legally speaking anyway) Horse killed a man and got away with it Bunny is a corrupt cop. So he’s directly connected with the conspiracy, but he’s also a beneficiary of it. Rooster is a bit of a stretch. Rooster’s perspective is that he split with his parents over their participation in the conspiracy and he struck out on his own, then he blames the conspiracy for killing his parents (via Dragon). He said he went from heaven to hell over the course of that. It’s possible he was selected due to his earlier life of luxury, or possible the conspiracy was secretly supporting his nascent acting career. Some people seem to think Rooster is an accomplice but not sure I buy it. Yes he has a grudge against members of the conspiracy, but the his methods seem at odds with how the game is setup. Rooster wants to directly kill his grudge targets. Whereas JE is more about creating a scenario where people kill each other and *generally* doesn’t kill directly, so IMO there’s more common ground between JE and Monkey. Dragon we haven’t gone through her route so I’m not sure how she’d fit in. But she dislikes police so it’s unlikely she’d willingly participate in the conspiracy. The conspiracy might view her as a useful patsy somehow- it’s a bit of a stretch but seems a bit more likely than her secretly taking orders from the chief of police. Also see how rooster thinks she killed his parents and thinks that she’s part of the conspiracy. Snake says “So when I ended up in the military due to various circumstances, for a while things made sense to me there.” near the end of his route. So there might be some dark secret that’s covered up there. He doesn’t seem to have much connection to the conspiracy, but it’s notable that in horses route Snake doesn’t want Ox, Bunny, Tiger as his support in the ambush where Ox and Bunny are probably the participants most connected to the conspiracy, so Snake has to know something (possibly from entertaining Brian’s theories). He also distrusts Tiger there, but that may be because she has the selfless personality. Monkey it’s unclear how this theory fits. But then the “conspiracy participant” idea doesn’t connect very well with her either and Monkey seems like the most likely accomplice for JE anyway. Snake’s comments about the chess board on his route make it sound like there’s some accomplice / true traitor amongst them. And monkeys’ seeming disappearance at the end of her route is incredibly suspicious. Mouse doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong and doesn’t think she herself has any connection to the Morris case (only her father). But she may have benefited from the conspiracy somehow, without realising it. Also it seems like she was brought in as a last minute replacement for the judge rather than for her father (suggesting that it isn’t just a case of inheriting sins). It also seems like Morris, probably was guilty? So maybe this game is less about punishing people for condemning an innocent man to death, but more anger that Morris was punished for his crimes and other people were forgiven for theirs.
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Apr 6, 2023 01:39
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Guys, am I a freaking god-tier investigator or what, because I think I found al-
…
So I have some questions.
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I actually don't like Ox, so heh. Also I was confused for a second and I realized that the way to get Ox to live is to actually believe the false truth; that Pig was the poisoner (when it was actually Dog/Bunny). That way, Ox would drink the 'wrong' antidote. It also lines up with Dog's personality; once he got caught he doesn't really want to live that badly, so it makes sense he'd just give up. EDIT: Actually, on a second read, I don't even think Dog was telling the truth. I think Bunny was the poisoner, and Dog's smart enough that he knew he would be figured out as the other traitor (Bunny wasn't keeping Dog on a short leash like he was with Pig, so it's possible they figured each other out but Pig didn't figure out Dog was the other traitor). Dog must have just wanted to die by saying he was the one who pushed the button. Anyway, I'm not that pleased with this route, it's kinda short and seems to be missing details. I think the only reason Snake's group isn't there narratively is because he would be interjecting himself too much in the discussion so they left him out so Mouse could do her thing. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 03:08
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Yeah, not a fan of Ox either but glad it worked out for him this time because of Pig's terrible acting. Since we don't get to learn the Kavka's Poison trick in this route, it was quite plausible that Bunny was telling the truth. Why not rope Pig in so that everyone's an equal accomplice? Still, given that at least 1 of the trio needed to have the instructions, they should have known that the trinket was weak. While Kavka's Poison trinket can cause chaos, it doesn't guarantee a path of casualties to take them to final 3. They should have found something else before stirring the pot.
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Apr 6, 2023 05:44
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Why wouldn't Ox drink blood from all three just to cover his bases?
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Apr 6, 2023 05:56
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That's so true. He should have, just to play it safe. He'd already killed all 3 and had to drink at least 1 person's blood. 3 isn't much worse.
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Apr 6, 2023 05:58
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Mix. posted:
This flew over my head earlier, but wasn't the phrasing kind of a big deal on Monkey's route? But this line is on Rooster's route - looks like Monkey was still up to her antics? Anyway I love that Ox pulled a gun out and just got shut down by Mouse immediately 
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Apr 6, 2023 08:28
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CremePudding posted:This flew over my head earlier, but wasn't the phrasing kind of a big deal on Monkey's route? But this line is on Rooster's route - looks like Monkey was still up to her antics? Yep, that line only pops up on routes where Monkey is a traitor and is tied up. She gets to Rooster on his route, Pig on her route (she mentions it in her suicide note), and in her own route she gets to Dragon, Snake, Sheep and Tiger. It's something that can be easily missed especially if you do Monkey's own route last of the 'Desperate/Content' routes that we've seen so far.
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Apr 6, 2023 11:00
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Ox being a patsy makes perfect sense; his role in most routes where he's notable is having sensible sounding but wrong ideas (and thinking himself as a leader in the group in spite of patently being unable to get others to listen to him most of the time; Mouse is actually much better at convincing others to act on her ideas). Even in the game he's so focused on his "job" (finding trinkets) that he's often oblivious to the machinations of those around him. Also pretty funny that you'd be convinced this ending was actually making the "correct" choice if you hadn't yet found the note on the other route about the poison's true nature.
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Apr 6, 2023 14:05
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ZCKaiser posted:Also pretty funny that you'd be convinced this ending was actually making the "correct" choice if you hadn't yet found the note on the other route about the poison's true nature. Agreed. Makes me want to see how it plays out without that knowledge.
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Apr 6, 2023 14:25
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Man, Ox really isn't that bright, is he?
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Apr 7, 2023 16:03
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dervival posted:Man, Ox really isn't that bright, is he? To be fair, he's under a tremendous amount of stress and time pressure at that point in time. Nobody is at their best in this race. Ox especially strikes me as someone who is more methodical and tends to take their time to check all the angles before acting, and he's not allowed to do that under these circumstances.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:43
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dervival posted:Man, Ox really isn't that bright, is he? Bright as an ox?
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Apr 7, 2023 17:51
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...wait a minute. Unless Dragon's route involves Dragon not being the traitor , Ox/Sheep might be the only players who are never the traitors? Of course once we start Dragon's route I can eat my words, but it might have some significance... unless it's that in whatever endgame/True route the game has, it's Ox and Sheep who are the traitors because they would probably trust Mouse if she goes for the "Sheep's Cloth-Second Caw" combo, which seems to be the key to solving this.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:55
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:...wait a minute. Unless Dragon's route involves Dragon not being the traitor , Ox/Sheep might be the only players who are never the traitors? Dragon has been the traitor already though in Snake and Tiger's routes. In Snake's route he kills her before she does anything against the group. Sheep hasn't been given a traitor role, but she unknowingly took it on in her own route by using Sheep's Clothing.
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Apr 7, 2023 19:27
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