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Burns posted:Good start, slow and misdirected middle, dumb finale. As others have said I'm gonna chock that up to Covid just storming in and derailing the show halfway through filming it so they had to shut everything down, then figure out what they could realistically film for the back half of the season and how to film it, then rewrite all the scenes around those restrictions, and then rewrite everything a second time after one of its main lead actors just walked off set one day and literally disappeared from life for reasons that are still to this day a complete mystery. I can see how that would completely gently caress up the back half of a TV show somehow.
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Apr 7, 2023 05:07
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Flowing Thot posted:The dragon could be any of them doesn't make sense just from a basic storytelling point of view. The dragon being a man who can channel and faces the potential to go mad like we see of the male channelers in season 1 has a lot of natural tension and conflict built into the premise. The dragon being a woman who does not have the same risk is just an Aes Sedai I guess. We see Aes Sedai chasing down and battling men who can channel because they are so dangerous. We see Aes Sedai die to do this. This gives you your stakes in a big clear way. A woman dragon just does not have the same risks at play. Yes, because it's literally impossible for a woman to be insane!
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Apr 7, 2023 05:17
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CainFortea posted:Yes, because it's literally impossible for a woman to be insane! A woman could go insane. A man will go insane. Male channelers scare the poo poo out of everyone. By saying the Dragon could be a woman it severely undercuts just how terrified of the Dragon Reborn most people in the world are. Only some people are scared of women using magic. Everyone is scared of men using magic.
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Apr 7, 2023 05:49
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also there's an existing institutional support and societal role for women who channel. like, already any given aes sedai could go mad with power and that would theoretically be a problem given their near monopoly on magic, except that as we go to great pains to establish they are not only internally policed but also subject to magical oaths. meanwhile a male channeler who has the time and opportunity to learn he is also the dragon reborn has to have probably already spent a bunch of time successfully escaping from the red aes sedai. they're very different situations and one is less scary due to other parts of the premise.
Valentin fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 05:57
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thekeeshman posted:Egwene and Nynaeve leave two rivers because they want to become Aes Sedai, Mat and Perrin leave because they're such good buds with Rand they can't bear to see him leave on his own and decide to help him. Literally all of this is wrong
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Apr 7, 2023 06:34
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CainFortea posted:Yes, because it's literally impossible for a woman to be insane! That's the text of the books, yes 
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Apr 7, 2023 15:14
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sweet geek swag posted:By saying the Dragon could be a woman it severely undercuts just how terrified of the Dragon Reborn most people in the world are. No it doesn't.
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Apr 7, 2023 16:37
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Sure it does, if Sally Sedai is the dragon, cool who cares she won't go nuts from touching saidin, because she can't.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:33
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IRQ posted:Sure it does, if Sally Sedai is the dragon, cool who cares she won't go nuts from touching saidin, because she can't. That's why False Dragons are terrifying. It's not why the actual Dragon is terrifying. That's a big end of age event with someone who will be pivotal in saving or destroying the world, in a world where prophecy, like rumor, is literally all over the place. The last time the Dragon lived he tainted saidin and broke the world. A woman simply repeating that is arguably more terrifying than a man doing it. Never mind if either type turns to the Dark One directly. Never mind the other prophesied destruction in the Dragon's wake. Edit: To be clear, the fact that the Dragon Reborn is not immune to the taint on saidin is a definite complication, but it's only one facet of why everyone dreads his coming.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:45
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Killer robot posted:That's why False Dragons are terrifying. It's not why the actual Dragon is terrifying. That's a big end of age event with someone who will be pivotal in saving or destroying the world, in a world where prophecy, like rumor, is literally all over the place. The last time the Dragon lived he tainted saidin and broke the world. A woman simply repeating that is arguably more terrifying than a man doing it. Never mind if either type turns to the Dark One directly. Never mind the other prophesied destruction in the Dragon's wake. This is something readers could infer, but not something that the show has successfully conveyed. This is most people's complaint with the show - it makes no sense yet for non-readers, and changes things that seem self-evident to readers for seemingly no reason.
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Apr 7, 2023 18:02
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Killer robot posted:That's why False Dragons are terrifying. It's not why the actual Dragon is terrifying. That's a big end of age event with someone who will be pivotal in saving or destroying the world, in a world where prophecy, like rumor, is literally all over the place. The last time the Dragon lived he tainted saidin and broke the world. A woman simply repeating that is arguably more terrifying than a man doing it. Never mind if either type turns to the Dark One directly. Never mind the other prophesied destruction in the Dragon's wake. That just seems like a reason for the normies to kill all channelers full stop in case they're the dragon... which is another series. The prophecies about the dragon and the nature of the "madness" also rule it out. I really think the show just wanted to have a dumb mystery.
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Apr 7, 2023 18:37
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The dragon did not, in fact, taint saidin
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Apr 7, 2023 19:40
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Would be awesome if Sally Sedai could channel saidin. She'd be top tier dommy mommy. Everyone would approve and Jordon would be Jeremiah Johnson nodding from beyond the grave.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:14
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Strangely, the non-readers I know who watched the show liked it, and one even went on to read the books because they liked the show enough. I'm not a super huge fan of the who-is-the-dragon mystery setup but it didn't turn off people who were new.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:15
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Somehow, the Dragon returned But the Dragon refused to change...
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Apr 7, 2023 20:51
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Health Services posted:Strangely, the non-readers I know who watched the show liked it, and one even went on to read the books because they liked the show enough. It's one of those things where they're writing for the new audience, not the book audience. And they sort of have to, they need a wide reach and need something to grab people. There are of course a lot of mysteries but "who is the dragon?" is one they can answer in season one and use to setup future mysteries. Bookcloaks don't like it because it's different and it was never a mystery in the books.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:39
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Yea, like this very thread had a bunch of people speculating. Plenty of folks were engaged with it. Plenty of those non-book reader youtubers were also in on it.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:42
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Jimbot posted:Would be awesome if Sally Sedai could channel saidin. She'd be top tier dommy mommy. Everyone would approve and Jordon would be Jeremiah Johnson nodding from beyond the grave. Let me introduce you to the fine works of Terry Goodkind...
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Apr 7, 2023 22:00
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Hey, can we not do book chat in this thread please?
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Apr 7, 2023 22:06
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Open Source Idiom posted:Hey, can we not do book chat in this thread please? Especially not Terry goodkind book chat
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Apr 7, 2023 23:37
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precision posted:Especially not Terry goodkind book chat
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Apr 8, 2023 00:26
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So they managed to get up to flying cars before the dragon dude and basically have been in mid evil times since?
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Apr 8, 2023 05:58
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Will Rand ever hang dong? Asking for a friend.
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Apr 8, 2023 16:59
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Hughmoris posted:Will Rand ever hang dong? Asking for a friend. Highly likely. I enjoyed the first series, as a fan of the books the deviations were all for the worse to me but I came in with preconceived expectations and appreciate people coming to the show without having read the books. The impact of covid was obvious and the lost by far the best of the two rivers actors. I'm just happy that this story is getting out there to a new audience and peak WoT is truly amazing. There is just a lot to trudge through to get to it. Judkin's real challenge is maintaining the incredible richness of the world whilst cutting all the shite.
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Apr 8, 2023 17:37
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As someone who read the first few books in paperback so much that the covers fell off. I was ok with the show. Some things I wish had been different, mainly as I've gotten older the whole fridging trope gets old. But I've been happy with the adaptation. Of course with Covid you can tell when it caused issues. My wife who never read the books and isn't a big sci-fi or fantasy fan. She really enjoyed it. I might be able to convince her to read the books. I just want to know when season 2 is coming.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:00
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calandryll posted:As someone who read the first few books in paperback so much that the covers fell off. So, you read them once?
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Apr 8, 2023 20:18
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calandryll posted:As someone who read the first few books in paperback so much that the covers fell off. I was ok with the show. Some things I wish had been different, mainly as I've gotten older the whole fridging trope gets old. But I've been happy with the adaptation. Of course with Covid you can tell when it caused issues. My covers fell off my paperbacks too. Overall I enjoyed season 1, but the biggest problem I have with the show is how wimpy show Lan is compared to Lan from the books. King of Malkier, my rear end.
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Apr 9, 2023 04:50
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dstyle posted:the biggest problem I have with the show is how wimpy show Lan is compared to Lan from the books. King of Malkier, my rear end. I’d have to rewatch the season, but I recall being extremely unimpressed with the combat stunts in episodes 1 and 4 (episodes 7 and 8 had other problems, so there’s less need to judge the fighting scenes there). In the Emond’s Field battle in ep1, it looked a lot to me like Daniel Henney was pulling his sword strokes as he attacked the trollocs. It really kills the badass swordsman vibe when the combat looks muted and hesitant. Edit: as much as some corners complained about the Aiel fight cold intro, I recall that *looking* like the combatants were actually trying to put the pointy ends of their weapons into each other.
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Apr 9, 2023 05:04
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Who the hell complained about that cold open, it ruled!
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Apr 9, 2023 11:52
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pik_d posted:It's one of those things where they're writing for the new audience, not the book audience. And they sort of have to, they need a wide reach and need something to grab people. There are of course a lot of mysteries but "who is the dragon?" is one they can answer in season one and use to setup future mysteries. Bookcloaks don't like it because it's different and it was never a mystery in the books. I think it's bc the bar for TV fantasy is so low that any show that has an interesting magic mechanic and an intriguing meta plot that holds together is gonna get some fans.
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Apr 9, 2023 14:07
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Like ppl are trying to tell me to watch Shadow and Bone because there's apparently some off shoot peripheral characters that are interesting? Like that's enough now for a try?
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Apr 9, 2023 14:10
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Shageletic posted:Like ppl are trying to tell me to watch Shadow and Bone because there's apparently some off shoot peripheral characters that are interesting? Like that's enough now for a try? Some parts of Shadow and Bone are better than others, and during season two especially the gap between the two groups of characters becomes major. But even the weak parts were fine.
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Apr 9, 2023 14:36
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Shageletic posted:Like ppl are trying to tell me to watch Shadow and Bone because there's apparently some off shoot peripheral characters that are interesting? Like that's enough now for a try? I liked it more than this, almost certainly for the same side characters, I haven't read it though. Think of it as your bog standard YA fated love conquers all chosen one bestest most pretty etc, One of Those series, and it's mostly inoffensive I guess. I'm not the target audience and I get that. But also!! there's a very fun and charismatic steampunk/magic almost wholesale stolen from Mistborn, Ocean's 11 style heist crew as the B plot. They are making a spinoff series with them so apparently a lot of people felt the same way. The actors really make it shine.
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Apr 9, 2023 15:23
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S&B has had some lower lows than WoT so far, and there's at least one long-running subplot that has had absolutely no bearing on the actual plot at all, but how low you think those lows actually go will hinge entirely on your tolerance for relentless YA melodrama. Season one kind of gets away with pulling threads from different books in the franchise, but season 2 absolutely feels like someone trying to stitch seven different books together into a single frazzled patchwork. And yet it...somehow ends up still working, mostly? Overall, I do feel like it's a much more "solid" show than WoT, and I don't say that to rag on WoT, but S&B just nonetheless does a measurably better job at making its world feel both more appealing and more cohesive. As someone who hadn't read either series, at no point was I confused about the world-building or character-work in S&B in the way that I was for a lot of WoT, and maybe that's because the whole Grisha stuff is mostly less esoteric and more straightforward than the Aes Sedai stuff, much more of a hard magic system instead of a soft one. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Apr 9, 2023 |
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Apr 9, 2023 15:54
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The last couple episodes looked like they weren't sure they'd get another season so they went into overdrive. The super powered Grisha fight in the moat was the stupidest poo poo ever. The only part that seemed like they were using their abilities well was the slow marching wind shield that would be dropped for fire throwing. Once the red shirts all died the remaining three Roose Bolton'd there way through the rest of the men walking calmly down the middle with no cover whatsoever. Then the bomb was thrown at the fire throwers feet and despite being incredibly reactive to threats like bullets the wind guy just stands there and lets it happen. Jasper cuts off the ice Grisha's fingers and she doesn't notice until she goes to do something with her hand lmao. Nevermind, Mal and Alina have zero chemistry together (as bad as the two mains from Valerian) Jasper and Wylan's relationship was cute. Jasper is great no matter what. Basically Jasper/Nina/Kerrigan couldn't save the show from itself
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Apr 9, 2023 21:15
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It just seems really hard to do this kind of magic well in live action without a really large effects budget. Which WoT and Shadow and Bone didn't look like they had. But Jasper doesn't need to use magic to be the best.
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Apr 9, 2023 22:41
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IRQ posted:But Jasper doesn't need to use magic to be the best. Neither does Logain. 
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Apr 9, 2023 22:52
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IRQ posted:It just seems really hard to do this kind of magic well in live action without a really large effects budget. Which WoT and Shadow and Bone didn't look like they had. But Jasper doesn't need to use magic to be the best. I will always be disappointed that we didn't get a big budget animated adaptation. I just feel like that's the only way to capture the magic and monsters and the sheer scale of stuff to come.
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Apr 9, 2023 22:55
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CainsDescendant posted:I will always be disappointed that we didn't get a big budget animated adaptation. I just feel like that's the only way to capture the magic and monsters and the sheer scale of stuff to come. Yeah animated feels like the only way you could have done WoT justice for a whole lot of reasons. Feels like it would never had happened though. Despite anime being incredibly popular now animation still has a stigma in the west as more of a kiddy thing and not something for a serious story. Slowly changing though.
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Apr 9, 2023 23:24
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I didn't mind the way they did the weaving effects actually, except for a couple of things that made it look a bit too generic - firstly the lack of visual differentiation between different kinds of weaves (earth/air etc) which could have made it look a bit different and more interesting I think (unless I'm forgetting and they actually did that??) - and second, them not bothering to address whether non channelers can see the weaves, when it would imo have been cooler to have it set up like the books where non channelers explicitly can't see the weaves but channelers can. The latter would maybe even have saved them some budget perhaps by allowing them to have more shots of magic without needing to show the weaves every time, at least where they want to be able to remind the audience about the different characters' perspectives or make a point about it.
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Apr 10, 2023 00:14
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