Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Sweaty IT Nerd: Jul 13, 2007

Icochet posted:

Just lol that Wagner thought they could h�ndel Bachmut. They haydn't got a chance. I bet their faces are red and hot like a beet-oven

That's from drugs tho.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:24

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# ? May 28, 2024 18:11

appropriatemetaphor: Jan 26, 2006

spankmeister posted:

This legitimately seems to be the plan for the Russians. Keep inching forward until the West gets bored and stops supporting Ukraine.

I think the Russian gov just literally doesn't understand that woke westoids aren't just virtue signaling fools who in reality care about nothing and have no real values.

Banking on the opposing side just randomly giving up is a hell of a position to be in lol.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:24

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Karate Bastard posted:

Youtube suggested I watch a new Jordan Peterson, so I clicked it,and he started whining about the west spending too much ramping up a horrible war with ever more terrifying weaponry with no clear vision of victory in sight, so I clicked off. Good hearing from you Jorps!

e: here it is jorps. Someone with more patience than I could watch it and see if I misjudged him.

Why the hell would you do that?!

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:34

Lucky Guy: Jan 24, 2013; TY for no bm

Karate Bastard posted:

Youtube suggested I watch a new Jordan Peterson, so I clicked it,and he started whining about the west spending too much ramping up a horrible war with ever more terrifying weaponry with no clear vision of victory in sight, so I clicked off. Good hearing from you Jorps!

e: here it is jorps. Someone with more patience than I could watch it and see if I misjudged him.

jeez, and I thought I had wildly unhealthy, self-destructive behaviors

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:41

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Karate Bastard posted:

Youtube suggested I watch a new Jordan Peterson, so I clicked it,and he started whining about the west spending too much ramping up a horrible war with ever more terrifying weaponry with no clear vision of victory in sight, so I clicked off. Good hearing from you Jorps!

e: here it is jorps. Someone with more patience than I could watch it and see if I misjudged him.

You do not, under any circumstance, have to give jordan peterson the benefit of the doubt.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:43

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

mobby_6kl posted:

Why the hell would you do that?!

I don't know. I watch dumb poo poo for my edification. I want to know what people are up to. I want to know what the "other side" has to say, to see if they have any arguments. I don't like looking at "my side's" arguments too much, because I already know them by heart. I'm wary of being part of the choir getting preached to. Feels too much like comfort food or copium. If I want to be able to feel smugly superior to dumbasses who only listen to what their own echo chambers have to say, I better be better than them myself, and see what them chucklefucks have to say from time to time. Couldn't do it with this one though. Some other time maybe.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:46

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Karate Bastard posted:

Youtube suggested I watch a new Jordan Peterson, so I clicked it

*record scratch* *freeze frame* Narrator: Yep, that's me. You're probably wondering how I got a 100,000 hour probe...

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:46

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Icochet posted:

Just lol that Wagner thought they could h�ndel Bachmut. They haydn't got a chance. I bet their faces are red and hot like a beet-oven

MODS

e:

Karate Bastard posted:

Youtube suggested I watch a new Jordan Peterson, so I clicked it,

Icochet you're off the hook, THIS time

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:51

OzyMandrill: Aug 12, 2013; Look upon my words
and despair

Icochet posted:

Just lol that Wagner thought they could h�ndel Bachmut. They haydn't got a chance. I bet their faces are red and hot like a beet-oven

You're going off track man, enough!

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:52

DandyLion: Jun 24, 2010; disrespectul Deciever

Karate Bastard posted:

I don't know. I watch dumb poo poo for my edification. I want to know what people are up to. I want to know what the "other side" has to say, to see if they have any arguments. I don't like looking at "my side's" arguments too much, because I already know them by heart. I'm wary of being part of the choir getting preached to. Feels too much like comfort food or copium. If I want to be able to feel smugly superior to dumbasses who only listen to what their own echo chambers have to say, I better be better than them myself, and see what them chucklefucks have to say from time to time. Couldn't do it with this one though. Some other time maybe.

Though a noble approach I think it misses the risk of just how infectiously awful that crap is and even listening to it with no intention of agreeing with anything will still affect your thoughts and views on it. Not saying to avoid the 'other side' but to listen to it sparingly and guardedly.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:53

weg: Jun 6, 2006; Reassisted Retrogression

Karate Bastard posted:

Youtube suggested I watch a new Jordan Peterson, so I clicked it,and he started whining about the west spending too much ramping up a horrible war with ever more terrifying weaponry with no clear vision of victory in sight, so I clicked off. Good hearing from you Jorps!

e: here it is jorps. Someone with more patience than I could watch it and see if I misjudged him.

RIP to your algorithm lol

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:54

zone: Dec 6, 2016

weg posted:

RIP to your algorithm lol

All you need to do is remove the vid from your watched vids list, and that sorts out the issue with the algorithm

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:55

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

Yeah you can also report videos that you don't like and it fixes it, which is good and noble to do for alt right shitters

# ? Apr 7, 2023 20:55

Tigey: Apr 6, 2015

Its good to question your assumptions!

Generally, if I see something and my reaction is an emotional "That's SPOT ON MATE!", a lot of the time switch is flipped in my head and I start thinking "Why do I agree with this? Am I right to? Am I so out of touch and is it the children who are right?", etc. If doubts start to creep in, I reconsider my opinion.

But you don't really need to do more than question and challenge your assumptions and arguments. You don't need to also immerse yourself in counter propaganda as some kind of self-flagellation. I would strongly advise against it in fact for your own mental health and wellbeing.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:01

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

I've been caught off guard by surprise terrible people before, like people who I mistakenly had good opinions of suddenly pulling super weird "facts" out of their rear end to defend surprisingly bad opinions that I was just plain flabbergasted that they apparently held, and being caught off guard I felt kind of dumb not having any easily demonstrable facts or arguments on hand to back up any counterclaims. Apparently, they got these opinions and nonfacts from somewhere before they ended up inside their arse hole, and had I been more open to dumb poo poo ahead of time, I would have been better prepared for this particular encounter, and might have been able to more easily show this person the poo poo coming out of their mouth for what it was, because I would have had the counter arguments on hand.

Yeah sure don't self-flagellate, that's useless. I'm arming myself.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:07

Doccers: Aug 15, 2000; Patron Saint of Chickencheese

appropriatemetaphor posted:

I think the Russian gov just literally doesn't understand that woke westoids aren't just virtue signaling fools who in reality care about nothing and have no real values.

Banking on the opposing side just randomly giving up is a hell of a position to be in lol.

Nah, all they have to do is to kick the door in, and the whole rotten structure will come down.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:08

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

weg posted:

RIP to your algorithm lol

My algorithm knows gently caress all about what I want to see, which is just the way I like it. My recommendations are all loving trash garbage homie :smuggo:

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:09

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

appropriatemetaphor posted:

I think the Russian gov just literally doesn't understand that woke westoids aren't just virtue signaling fools who in reality care about nothing and have no real values.

Banking on the opposing side just randomly giving up is a hell of a position to be in lol.

I mean, it worked for old Fritz?

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:09

Potrzebie: Apr 6, 2010; I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!; Lipstick Apathy

jaete posted:

I guess some people just don't know what a "border" is

Guy is Russian so you'd think he has some first-hand knowledge of actual borders... maybe he thought all of EU is completely 100% borderless inside?

Norway. Famous for oil, fish and being a member of EU.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:12

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Karate Bastard posted:

I've been caught off guard by surprise terrible people before, like people who I mistakenly had good opinions of suddenly pulling super weird "facts" out of their rear end to defend surprisingly bad opinions that I was just plain flabbergasted that they apparently held, and being caught off guard I felt kind of dumb not having any easily demonstrable facts or arguments on hand to back up any counterclaims. Apparently, they got these opinions and nonfacts from somewhere before they ended up inside their arse hole, and had I been more open to dumb poo poo ahead of time, I would have been better prepared for this particular encounter, and might have been able to more easily show this person the poo poo coming out of their mouth for what it was, because I would have had the counter arguments on hand.

Yeah sure don't self-flagellate, that's useless. I'm arming myself.

But again. Jordan Peterson.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:16

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Yeah. Lots of people watch him. And I trust my ability to out argue an mp4 via proxy.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:26

Ghetto SuperCzar: Feb 20, 2005

Karate Bastard posted:

My algorithm knows gently caress all about what I want to see, which is just the way I like it. My recommendations are all loving trash garbage homie

But... You started this by clicking the recommended lovely video, which in turn ups its probability of being recommended to others. I swear alt right tube wouldn't be a thing if anyone center all the way to the left stopped hate watching that bullshit.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:27

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

Ghetto SuperCzar posted:

But... You started this by clicking the recommended lovely video, which in turn ups its probability of being recommended to others. I swear alt right tube wouldn't be a thing if anyone center all the way to the left stopped hate watching that bullshit.

The best* part is when you click on the dots on the side to tell youtube don't recommend it or anything like it but you're off by 5 pixels and click on it and then even after you purge your history countless more ones like it permanently stay on your recommended feed

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:30

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Ghetto SuperCzar posted:

But... You started this by clicking the recommended lovely video, which in turn ups its probability of being recommended to others. I swear alt right tube wouldn't be a thing if anyone center all the way to the left stopped hate watching that bullshit.

I sincerely doubt that. I mean look out the window and say you don't see an enthusiastic audience just lapping that poo poo up. And if you don't actually see one can we please swap?

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:31

kemikalkadet: Sep 16, 2012

zone posted:

That's nice. Now try liberating Chasiv Yar, Konstantynivka, and Ivanivske nearby and tell everyone how many months that's going to take. Average it out for a month for each village, and maybe the Russians might be able to reach Sloviansk and Kramatorsk in a few years.

Yeah it's wild, they've got another 2 Bakhmut sized towns to get through before they even get to the gates of Kramatorsk and Sloviansk which are both far more substantial and difficult to conquer if they don't have a surprise breakthrough.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:31

KakerMix: Apr 8, 2004; 8.2 M.P.G.

Just make it so you can't see anything "recommended" to you at all. That's the other thing AdBlock is for.

I feel like I'm the only person in the world that gets weirded out when everybody talks about the recommendation algorithm. You don't need it. You've never needed it. Why do you care about it?

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:33

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

The fall of Sergey Lavrov:

quote:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov is fumbling through his career nadir, experts have told Newsweek.

The 73-year-old's gradual transformation from diplomatic heavyweight to Kremlin bullhorn has been accelerated by President Vladimir Putin's disastrous war on Ukraine, a conflict that has set Lavrov�long considered a shrewd and effective operator�up for an ignominious end to a 50-year diplomatic career.

Lavrov is the stoic face of a neutered Russia diplomatic service, which, since Putin's rise to power, has slowly seen policy for the most important and rewarding briefs awarded to the president's inner circle; the "siloviki" military and security men who encouraged Putin's drift to the belligerency that has set Moscow on a collision path with the West.

A trusted pair of hands, Lavrov has always been outside Putin's inner circle. Still, Russia's longest-serving foreign minister since the fall of the Soviet Union has enjoyed the trappings of life among the country's new nobility, as have his jet-setting wife, daughter, alleged mistress and her daughter.

Despite persistent rumors that the Moscow-born envoy has long wanted out, Lavrov has remained in his post. While Russian troops fight and die in the fields of Ukraine, Lavrov is fighting his own losing battle to be taken seriously abroad.

"In some ways one could call him a prisoner of the system now, although it's hard to feel any particular sympathy for someone in his position," Mark Galeotti, the author of Putin's Wars: From Chechnya to Ukraine, told Newsweek.

"On one level, the job of a diplomat is to lie for your country," Galeotti continued. "However, how you lie and when you lie means a great deal; it affects the kind of price you pay. And the thing about Lavrov is precisely that with the things he's had to do. He has paid a terrible price in terms of his credibility."

"A man who, in his time, was an absolute titan of international diplomacy has now become�in some ways�a laughingstock," Galeotti said. "Not to everyone, we shouldn't overplay it. Lavrov is still wily and canny and can be a fairly charming operator. But still, he's just a shadow of the Lavrov that once was."

"He's little more than the poor guy who follows the elephant with a dustpan and brush to clear up afterwards," Galeotti said. "He doesn't get to define the direction the elephant moves in."

'Damage Control'

Putin's obsessive centralization of power has left Lavrov and the Foreign Ministry much diminished. Foreign policy has been fragmented between various Kremlin factions, Galeotti said, with Moscow's direction more influenced by Putin's main foreign adviser Yuri Ushakov than by Moscow's chief diplomat.

"It's the Defense Ministry that runs policy towards Syria, for example," Galeotti said. "It's Rosneft that runs policy towards Venezuela because of the importance of oil, and therefore [Rosneft CEO] Igor Sechin is critical. [Security Council Secretary Nikolai] Patrushev is essentially dominant over policy towards the Balkans. And in some ways, what's left goes to meet the Foreign Ministry. For example, Afghanistan."

Newsweek has contacted the Russian Foreign Ministry by email to request comment.

Lavrov is thought to have been left out of the decision-making process that spawned Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. Alex Kokcharov, a risk analyst specializing in Russia and Ukraine, told Newsweek that Lavrov's role is "damage control for what's already been decided, even if it's been decided against his advice."

Being sidelined in such a fashion is not new for Lavrov. The foreign minister was also not involved in the plan and decision to annex Crimea in 2014, experts told Newsweek.

But while Putin sidestepped allegations that the "little green men" seizing sensitive sites on the peninsula were Russian troops, "Lavrov was one of the people who was essentially forced to hurl himself on that particular narrative grenade and flat out deny that they were Russian troops," Galeotti said.

February's invasion was supposed to be easy. But more than a year later, Russia is struggling to salvage any kind of success from its Ukraine quagmire and is framing its military gambit as a confrontation with the entire NATO-European Union sphere.

Lavrov has said Russia was already "de facto" at war with the West, and that the deepening conflict in Ukraine was part of an inevitable shift from American hegemony to true global multipolarity. This is a particularly important plank in Moscow's appeal to the "global south," where attitudes to the invasion of Ukraine range from apathetic to sympathetic to opportunistic.

Oleg Ignatov, nonprofit Crisis Group's senior Russia analyst, told Newsweek that Lavrov's ministry has become little more than "the press service of the Kremlin."

But the veteran envoy still has some value in his reduced role. "Lavrov is still very good at what he does, let's be honest, even when it comes to just simply being able to lie with a straight face," Galeotti said. "Lavrov still plays well in the 'global south.'"

Prisoner or Player?
Despite reported opposition to the ongoing war among Russia's political and business elite, few are brave enough to break with Putin. Lavrov is rumored to have wanted to resign for years, with reports and experts suggesting he has repeatedly been blocked by Putin from doing so.

"Lavrov is not young�he's 73�and his job is not very easy; constant travels, constant flights, jet lag, a lot of meetings, he has to examine a lot of documents," Boris Bondarev, a former Russian diplomatic official at Moscow's United Nations mission in Geneva, told Newsweek.

"It's not an easy task," said Bondarev, who resigned from his role in May 2022 in protest of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Still, the foreign minister shows no sign of leaving. "I've heard these rumors that he was tired and that he wanted to resign for many, many years," Bondarev said. "Never has anything come out of this. So, I would say that all of these rumors are rumors."

"He's not an unwilling passenger. A true unwilling passenger would abandon the ship."

Ignatov said Lavrov's long stint indicates his priorities. "Lavrov is very loyal," he said. "If he wanted to resign, he would resign [...] Maybe he's not satisfied with the war, maybe he didn't expect this war. But I think Lavrov has many things in common with Putin. He has almost the same cynical vision about foreign policy and about politics in general."

Relinquishing power in Russia is fraught with dangers. All those at the top are reportedly enmeshed with the kleptocratic corruption that drives and defines Putinism. And with the legal system so tightly bound to the Kremlin, there is no recourse for those who fall foul of Putin.

Retiring without permission "would be a direct challenge to 'the boss.'" Galeotti said. "And that, in the current situation, is an unwise thing to do."

Kokcharov said Putin and his allies have a "sufficient amount of 'kompromat'" against Lavrov. "That's the reason why all these corruption crimes are so well tolerated within the Russian system: they create the hook with which to threaten all these officials with prosecution if they stop being loyal." Kompromat refers to the practice of amassing embarrassing or confounding information�fabricated or not�to be eventually used to against someone.

Lavrov would also be giving up a luxurious lifestyle, with which he is well rewarded for his unflinching public loyalty to Putin. "There are a lot of perks with this job," Bondarev said. "People very quickly get used to all these advantages and privileges which follow with ministerial positions. I think it's not very easy to abandon this."

Tied to Putinism
So long at the top also breeds self-importance. "When you are a minister for almost 20 years, you get used to thinking you are the best man to do this job, and whoever comes next after you may not be fit for the job," Bondarev said.

"You cannot just leave. You must continue to press forward. I don't think he was very happy about this war. I think no serious figures in the MFA [Ministry of Foreign Affairs] were really happy about this. Maybe only some morons."

Like all the other unsettled elites outside of Putin's immediate, and increasingly hawkish, inner circle, "he really believes that he can prevent the worst things [from happening," Ignatov said. "They all think like this; they think they are indispensable."

Lavrov's fate is inextricably tied to Putin. "The only way out is if he develops a really bad health condition and he needs to step down and retire," Kokcharov said.

The president still values Lavrov's "capability and continuity" and "hates the idea of any major reshuffles at the top of his system," Galeotti said. "And probably even more so now."

"This is one of the main reasons for the increasingly gerontocratic nature of the Russian system; Putin doesn't want to have to break in a new man."

"It may be embarrassing and irksome, and he may well much rather be off doing whatever he wants to do in his retirement," Galeotti said. "But the point is, what's he going to do? He doesn't have the muscle to be able to think in terms of being a senior figure in some kind of post-Putin Russia.

"I think actually that the end of the Putin regime would simply bring him blessed relief and allow him to leave the political scene."

https://www.newsweek.com/decline-sergey-lavrov-russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-kremlin-1792908

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:34

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Ghetto SuperCzar posted:

But... You started this by clicking the recommended lovely video, which in turn ups its probability of being recommended to others. I swear alt right tube wouldn't be a thing if anyone center all the way to the left stopped hate watching that bullshit.

I'll just add that I don't have the luxury of being able to safely ignore what I don't agree with. I'll just leave it at that.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:44

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

If you want a good source of armaments and you are worried about exposing yourself to / giving exposure to actual right wing propaganda, check out Beau of the Fifth Column on youtube. He is US centric and has had some pretty decent Ukraine coverage in the past. Not much lately though, for reasons explained in the video I linked, that is to say for the same reasons many other good commentators have similarly gone quiet recently.

Karate Bastard fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 7, 2023

# ? Apr 7, 2023 21:59

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1644374089161637888
Whoops!

# ? Apr 7, 2023 22:00

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

Was it ever confirmed if those leaked documents were actually real?

The source sounds incredibly sketchy (random discord that blackholed somehow) but lots of people are talking like its legit.

# ? Apr 7, 2023 22:02