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Tighclops posted:Honestly, fine. This AI stuff is obviously going to be bad for a lot of people who rely on selling their art or their skills but hopefully it will help kill IP law and the concept of Brands as we understand them Much like Captain Kirk, I have too much respect for the human spirit to ever watch a show made by a soulless computer
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Apr 7, 2023 11:23
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No Dignity posted:Much like Captain Kirk, I have too much respect for the human spirit to ever watch a show made by a soulless computer what if was was rendered in 240p on video toasters leftover from Babylon 5 and you could watch it on a lovely 12 inch CRT from 1983 with massive colour bleed? everyone has a price
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Apr 7, 2023 11:26
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Tighclops posted:what if was was rendered in 240p on video toasters leftover from Babylon 5 and you could watch it on a lovely 12 inch CRT from 1983 with massive colour bleed? Progressive scan? Get that devilry out of here I'll take it in 240i
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Apr 7, 2023 11:30
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To be fair to Babylon 5 it looked substantially better at airing than it does now thanks to the whoops-lost-the-masters situation.
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Apr 7, 2023 11:46
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No Dignity posted:Much like Captain Kirk, I have too much respect for the human spirit to ever watch a show made by a soulless computer I for one would take a Butlerian Jihad or two if it meant I got to watch a proper remaster of Voyager. The consistent, quality writing and dedication to the continuity of the show's premise is worth it.
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Apr 7, 2023 11:51
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MikeJF posted:To be fair to Babylon 5 it looked substantially better at airing than it does now thanks to the whoops-lost-the-masters situation. I thought they did recently update it on streaming with a new scan from the masters.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:31
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No Dignity posted:Much like Captain Kirk, I have too much respect for the human spirit to ever watch a show made by a soulless computer asking GPT to write a TOS episode where Kirk out-logics a computer but it keeps crashing
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Apr 7, 2023 12:34
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Winifred Madgers posted:I thought they did recently update it on streaming with a new scan from the masters. I don't think those were a new scan from the original masters so much as a much much better scan from what they had left, with way better error correction and upscaling involved on the stuff with CGI, and live-action scanned from film stock.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:39
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Where's my 4K Earth: Final Conflict? No, not the passable first season. The last two. I want full Jaridian resolution.
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Apr 7, 2023 13:52
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MikeJF posted:I don't think those were a new scan from the original masters so much as a much much better scan from what they had left, with way better error correction and upscaling involved on the stuff with CGI, and live-action scanned from film stock. They are a new 4k scan from the original film masters (downsampled to 1080p). The only upscaling is done on VFX and composite shots. It looks (from a video quality perspective), 100x better than DS9 or Voyager. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 13:53
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People keep doing HD renders of the B5 effects shots because *somehow* the assets and animation files found their way into the wild before Foundation Imaging went under, so it's not as if it would be impossible to incorporate them into a remaster. The problem seems to be that A: the people doing the renders technically shouldn't possess the files as they're WB property, so there are potential legal issues with using them (which is why they keep getting taken down from YouTube), and B: money.
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Apr 7, 2023 14:02
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bull3964 posted:They are a new 4k scan from the original film masters (downsampled to 1080p). The only upscaling is done on VFX and composite shots. That's what I said, but I didn't use the word master because the master is the final assembled cut with the FX integrated, and that was lost. What I said was that the original master with the proper full-quality VFX render was still lost, and even with this latest remaster they still had to upscale the VFX shots from lower-quality tapes. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 14:24
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I do think people underestimate how many composed shots there were. Shots like this? Actors staring at a blue rectange that was done in post. If they just used the 'use raw film and then upscale VFX and composed shots' people are suggesting on DS9 and Voyager, it'd be 1080p they gather around, and then every time it cuts to this shot with stuff on the monitor, the quality would plummet to 480p, then back to 1080 as we go to a reverse on the actors, then back to 480 as we cut back to this angle. For the TNG remaster they recreated the computer graphic and recomposited it into the bluescreen shot. Any viewscreen, any time riker swings around his lil min-console and goes bip boop oh no damage control: inserted FX. B5 didn't really have as much use of this type of insertion: they used a lot more inset CRTs and stuff. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 14:28
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MikeJF posted:That's what I said, but I didn't use the word master because the master is the final assembled cut with the FX integrated, and that was lost. What I said was that the original master with the proper full-quality VFX render was still lost, and even with this latest remaster they still had to upscale the VFX shots from lower-quality tapes. B5 was edited on video like Star Trek, so there doesn't exist an edited copy on film to scan from, the original master was video. This was created from the original 35mm prints and was the highest quality that could have ever been. I shouldn't have used the word master, they created a new master from the original film which required them to re-edit. The VFX were never rendered beyond 480i60, so there wasn't anything higher quality to go back to ever that would have been lost. That actually is an issue (beyond upscaling) with the HD remasters as the original VFX were rendered in 30fps while the film is 24fps and the new master is 24fps, so the motion of VFX is a bit off. The original film elements were found awhile ago which enabled this project. Farscape, on the other hand, is one that lost the film elements that have never been found. The blurays for that are based off the PAL video masters which were quite a bit higher quality than the NTSC ones. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 14:50
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bull3964 posted:... How do you lose something like that? Like did they actually get lost in like a warehouse in a mislabeled crate or were they thrown out because syfy is too cheap to archive it?
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Apr 7, 2023 14:58
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8one6 posted:How do you lose something like that? Like did they actually get lost in like a warehouse in a mislabeled crate or were they thrown out because syfy is too cheap to archive it? It happens all the time unfortunately (which again is why it's important to have Paramount do the archival scans of DS9 and Voyager while they know where they are and before they degrade too much.) Some studios take this stuff seriously. Warner went through and scanned much of their film library in 8k and struck new 35mm prints so they could have both a digital copy and a refreshed physical copy they can store in salt mines.
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Apr 7, 2023 15:04
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Khanstant posted:If that means you haven't seen Star Trek: Christmas with the Klumps you need to get on that When will the Star Trek, King Of The Hill: Christmas with the Niefkos be done?
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Apr 7, 2023 15:07
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I doubt these chat GPT derivatives could create new TOS episodes 'to order' but I could absolutely see a power-user package that lets you turn a formatted rough script into something like a TAS episode being available in a few years. Honestly TAS's style seems almost suited for this brute force horseshit.
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Apr 7, 2023 15:14
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I'm sure they'll turn out just as well as AI generated Sienfeld.
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Apr 7, 2023 15:16
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My favorite TOS episode is "The Trouble with Flubber"
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Apr 7, 2023 15:33
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Nessus posted:I doubt these chat GPT derivatives could create new TOS episodes 'to order' but I could absolutely see a power-user package that lets you turn a formatted rough script into something like a TAS episode being available in a few years. Yeah the genius of TAS is that half the time it feels like no human mind was involved with its production anyway
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Apr 7, 2023 16:11
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A Vulcan gets assimilated by the Borg. After deassimilation he claims that being part of the collective is the most logical thing for a rational being to wish for and demands he be allowed to reassimilate.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:38
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Prurient Squid posted:A Vulcan gets assimilated by the Borg. After deassimilation he claims that being part of the collective is the most logical thing for a rational being to wish for and demands he be allowed to reassimilate. "Soran" is a pretty good Vulcan name, let's go with that.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:42
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TAS is one of my favorites because of its absurdity 
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Apr 7, 2023 17:44
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Prurient Squid posted:A Vulcan gets assimilated by the Borg. After deassimilation he claims that being part of the collective is the most logical thing for a rational being to wish for and demands he be allowed to reassimilate. 
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Apr 7, 2023 17:59
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The book "Vendetta" is a pretty good read if you want pre-voyager Borg. It also put forth that the Planet Killer in TOS was built as a Borg weapon, eating the scooped out planets the Borg left behind (this was when they still did that.) It also has a great prologue about an arrogant species that was unbothered by an approaching Borg cube because they were sure their super advanced AI defense systems would keep them at bay and the AI instead had enough of the poo poo they asked it to do and immediately surrendered to the Borg, printing it one final message to the leaders of the planet "AT LAST" It also has someone rescued from the collective that didn't have as good an outcome as Picard. It also has a Ferengi privateer that thought they were going to make mad profit negotiating with the Borg and ended up getting himself assimilated. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 18:14
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SCheeseman posted:They are objectively not good quality and those who are ok with that have low standards for video quality. This doesn't mean I think people who find these versions acceptable are worse people for having this position, that's some poo poo you made up in your own brain. Want to bring this back up. DS9 DVDs look great still. I'd even argue that it looks better than a lot if not most modern CGI movies in 4k. Practical sets and effects are better and more pleasing visually at 480p than a lot of CGI at 4k. "Video quality" is merely part of the question. Could DS9 look better with a full remaster? Sure. Does it look bad? Absolutely not.
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Apr 7, 2023 19:12
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bull3964 posted:The book "Vendetta" is a pretty good read if you want pre-voyager Borg. I definitely read this book as a teenager but I remember exactly nothing from it so I just bought it and am re-reading it. And the first line was Picard putting his hand through his full thick head of hair and chuckled.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:14
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Super Deuce posted:Want to bring this back up. DS9 DVDs look great still. I'd even argue that it looks better than a lot if not most modern CGI movies in 4k. Practical sets and effects are better and more pleasing visually at 480p than a lot of CGI at 4k. "Video quality" is merely part of the question. Could DS9 look better with a full remaster? Sure. Does it look bad? Absolutely not. They're not 480p, but 480i. I get they look fine to you, but in an objective sense they are heavily degraded with visual artifacts (combing and aliasing from deinterlacing for progressive displays, dot crawl from colour signal crossover, colour and contrast crushing due to NTSC bandwidth limitations) that become more obvious the bigger you blow up the picture, particularly the earlier seasons that were edited and mastered on composite video. The original telecine process also seemed to introduce geometric distortion in some instances, something the remastered footage for the DS9 doco highlighted in side by side comparisons. Composite video is the second worst output option on most 90s video game consoles. Chunky video game pixels look noticeably worse when bitcrushed through it, let alone film scans. By the standards of the people who made the show, it looks bad. Even at the time! It's why they switched from composite to component video mid-production. That in of itself is justification to call for a remaster. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 20:32
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What monstrous rear end in a top hat replaced my blahaj
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Apr 7, 2023 20:43
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I've come to find TOS episodes to be very comfortable dinner time viewing, and there's still a few episodes I haven't touched (mostly because they sound and are awful). And The Children Shall Lead Holy poo poo, what a nightmare. The Enterprise crew finds a colony of dead scientists, and for some reason their kids are happily playing among the bodies. They bring the children on board, and it turns out they're being manipulated by a spectral man in a gigantic mumu. The kids start, in turn, manipulating the crew with rock-paper-scissors fist gestures that make them hallucinate things. Finally, Kirk saves the day by first making the kids watch footage of their dead parents and then urging them to watch their wide-rear end puppet master as his face hideously melts and shrivels because his power is broken. Never want to watch this one again.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:44
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davidspackage posted:I've come to find TOS episodes to be very comfortable dinner time viewing, and there's still a few episodes I haven't touched (mostly because they sound and are awful). And that spectral man in a mummu was, among many other things, Jack Ruby's lawyer.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:48
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SCheeseman posted:They're not 480p, but 480i. I get they look fine to you, but in an objective sense they are heavily degraded with visual artifacts (combing and aliasing from deinterlacing for progressive displays, dot crawl from colour signal crossover, colour and contrast crushing due to NTSC bandwidth limitations) that become more obvious the bigger you blow up the picture, particularly the earlier seasons that were edited and mastered on composite video. The original telecine process also seemed to introduce geometric distortion in some instances, something the remastered footage for the DS9 doco highlighted in side by side comparisons. No. In an objective sense they still look great.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:09
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Angry_Ed posted:And that spectral man in a mummu was, among many other things, Jack Ruby's lawyer. The main kid in that episode invented the Blaster Beam which makes the iconic V'ger sounds. They've been using the Blaster Beam in this season of Picard too for Vadic's ship.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:14
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Super Deuce posted:No. In an objective sense they still look great. No they don't, as made apparent by all the people who don't think it does, including the people who made the show. This isn't like that audiophile stuff where the differences come down to sound "warmness" or other undefinable BS, the visual artifacts are right there, with video processes developed since then to be rid of them, even happening during the show's production. It's incredible that I'm getting anger from saying this, what the hell is the actual problem? No one loses if remasters happen.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:19
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SCheeseman posted:No they don't, as made apparent by all the people who don't think it does, including the people who made the show. This isn't like that audiophile stuff where the differences come down to sound "warmness" or other undefinable BS, the visual artifacts are right there, with video processes developed since then to be rid of them, even happening during the show's production. You're right. It is incredible you're getting angry from this. Nobody is saying a remaster would be bad. Everyone would like a remaster. That doesn't mean what we have looks bad. You're falling victim to one of the dumbest aspects of all or nothing Internet arguing, and making the same point idiots in video games make all the time where an item with .05% fewer stats than the best potential option is bad. Having $0.90 isn't bad because it could have been $1. DS9 still looks great, again, because of the practical set design, costume, and makeup work. Could it look better with a remaster? Duh. That's not what you're arguing though. You're trying to say the DVDs look bad which is hysterically stupid.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:34
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Contrary to your opinion, not everyone who disagrees with you on the internet is angry. You are not the sole rational person posting.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:37
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Just re-render all the series in full 4k but in VISOR-vision®, then call anyone who complains abelist.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:38
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Super Deuce posted:You're right. It is incredible you're getting angry from this. Nobody is saying a remaster would be bad. Everyone would like a remaster. That doesn't mean what we have looks bad. You're falling victim to one of the dumbest aspects of all or nothing Internet arguing, and making the same point idiots in video games make all the time where an item with .05% fewer stats than the best potential option is bad. Having $0.90 isn't bad because it could have been $1. DS9 still looks great, again, because of the practical set design, costume, and makeup work. Could it look better with a remaster? Duh. That's not what you're arguing though. You're trying to say the DVDs look bad which is hysterically stupid. Remastered DS9 footage isn't a theoretical, I've seen it and it looks considerably better than the kind of margins you describe in that dumb video game example. The DVDs look bad by comparison, in my own judgement but also in terms of detail and visual quality in an objective sense. Actual objectivity, as in quantifiable, as in you can see it and measure it. I'm a bit grumpy, but mostly at attitudes in the thread. The victimization and hurt feelings borne only from me expressing that I don't like the way a video looks and that I think work should be done to make it look better. It's pathetic.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:43
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Oh get off the cross, we need the wood. To build DVD shelves apparently.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:45
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