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kiimo posted:Or that Spielberg's wife ruined it Look at this guy pretending he doesn't eat out of the trash like the rest of us 
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Apr 7, 2023 19:20
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kiimo posted:Or that Spielberg's wife ruined it IIRC they got together during the filming of Temple of Doom and then married afterwards? Doesn't change the fact that Spielberg and Lucas channeled their post divorce vitriol into the writing and depiction of the Willie Scott role, not much Capshaw could do about that.Temple of Doom isn't a good movie, and it has a lot of regressive racial stereotypes even by the extremely low standards of the 80s. It's still a worthy entry in the Indy movies, and miles better than Crystal Skull. If they really want to take some stink off of it casting Ke Huy Quan as the lead in a spinoff series would go a long way. Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked.
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Apr 7, 2023 19:24
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Snooze Cruise posted:is temple of doom a good movie? no  I fondly remember the morning after it came on TV and me and the other kids were reverently discussing the banquet scene, drat.
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Apr 7, 2023 19:29
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Temple of Doom's far and away the best one start smoking crack
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Apr 7, 2023 19:39
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A good 75% of what makes Raiders rock is the face-melting scene. Sadly the Kali-Ma kano scene doesn't quite have the same gravitas.
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Apr 7, 2023 19:42
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Temple of Doom is a great action movie, you just have to ignore Capshaw's performance and all the racism.
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Apr 7, 2023 19:44
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Temple of Doom starts strong and ends strong, it's that whole middle section that's terrible. From the opening until they get on the plane, it's a great movie. Then, once Indy stops being brainwashed and says they need to get everyone out ("Right...all of us") and they go to save the kids, it's great again. But my god does it drag for that, I dunno, more than an hour between those two points. With the bugs, and the screaming, and the racism. Raiders is as close as I think we'll ever come to a perfect movie, as a people. Last Crusade, yes, goes back to the well, but it's a drat fine well, and the result is an amazing movie. And Connery is a wonderful addition. The only downside is making Marcus Brody into an idiot, but oh well. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 19:48
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I agree, Raiders is a perfect movie and my favorite of all time. There isn't one scene that seems unimportant. It's just brilliant cinema that builds tension the entire movie and culminates in a scene that absolutely delivers. It also has Marion Ravenwood, if that point is lost anywhere. edit: I know about Marcus! They retconned him into a pussy but he would have gone after the Ark himself in his younger years.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:01
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For me Temple of Doom is a great memory and then you watch it again and all the scenes or dialog you brain was smart enough to ditch drags quite a bit. Then a few months pass and your brain realigns.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:03
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Temple of Doom is a great movie with a couple really unfortunate choices See also: Stripes
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Apr 7, 2023 20:48
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Temple of Doom has this sequence which is pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY4hxMTXoFQ The pan-up to Indy in shadow and then the crawl getting him in light is a real kicker of an image. Goddamn, hits me every time. He also tries to save the guy from getting squished which is pretty 
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Apr 7, 2023 20:49
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Temple of Doom kicks rear end. Willie Scott is annoying and funny. It’s gross and that’s what makes it great.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:50
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IIIIIINNNNNDDDYYYYYYYYY!!!! mistah jones!
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Apr 7, 2023 21:08
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BigglesSWE posted:Temple of Doom has this sequence which is pretty great: Yeah, this is the part I was talking about, it's right after Indy stops being brainwashed. It's when Short Round says something like, "It's time to get out of here!" and Indy says, "Right...all of us." And then this scene happens. From this point on, the movie is great again, but it is a SLOG to get to this point.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:17
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I disagree it’s crazy and spooky and goes ape poo poo. Also there’s a part where Indy looks a skin flag and it has pubes. That’s gross as hell! I love it
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Apr 7, 2023 21:36
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CelticPredator posted:I disagree it’s crazy and spooky and goes ape poo poo. Also there’s a part where Indy looks a skin flag and it has pubes. That’s gross as hell! I love it Kids on my block were making the same argument in 1984. I disagreed with them then and I disagree with you now! disgusting
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Apr 7, 2023 21:54
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Mat Cauthon posted:Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked. Mat Cauthon posted:Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked. Mat Cauthon posted:Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked. Mat Cauthon posted:Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked. Mat Cauthon posted:Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked. Mat Cauthon posted:Also Last Crusade owns, if you don't like that movie you need your head checked.
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Apr 7, 2023 23:01
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Apr 8, 2023 00:28
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Temple of Doom is the best one, and it's not even close. It's the greatest B-movie ever made. I could literally rewatch it once a week, every week, for the rest of my life if needed. There's not an ounce of fat on its bones, it's a non-stop rollicking adventure and most importantly Indy is the driving force of the entire film. You know how people point out that the ending of Raiders is the same no matter if Indy is there or not? The same is true of Last Crusade and Crystal Skull. Dude is a passenger in his own film. Not in Temple though, it's a man at the height of his powers kicking rear end. Movie loving owns. Last Crusade as a fantastic tank chase sequence, everything outside that is boring. Thought that in the cinema 30 years ago, thought that on every rewatch. There's more thoughtfulness and exploration of bad fathers learning to be good fathers in Temple than in all of Last Crusade. Just the hat exchange scene, wordless, conveys more than all of Sean Connery's stuff. It's also the point where Short Round goes from calling him Doctor Jones, to Indy. No longer the exploited child servant, but the friend/son/equal partner. It's never pointed out in the script, but once you notice the change in terms of address it's beautiful. It's the only film where Indy has an arc (and not an ark, because holy poo poo if they cram that into the new movie I will roll my eyes back so far I'll see brain). Willie Scott is way more badass than Marion too, and I hate the slander she gets. It's the 1930s and she's an independent woman travelling the world on her own talent and wits, allowed to be sexually aggressive and capable. She's hilarious and every one of those screams is justified in context. Still punches out bad guys and overcomes her fears at every turn. She's no simpering wallflower, after being almost sacrificed to death with the last of her energy her first instinct is still to slap Indy for almost getting her killed. Is the movie dubiously racist? Oh gently caress yes, but name a movie pre-2000 that isn't sketchy as gently caress. I mean, it's not like it's a movie releasing in 2023 with a welshman still playing a cartoon egyptian stereotype *looks to camera* gently caress, I'm annoyed I have work in 8 hours because otherwise I would watch Temple of Doom right now because it's been too long since I last saw it. (Interestingly, and to show I'm not alone in swimming against the tide of public opinion, in 2008 I took my Aussie mate to see Crystal Skull. He had never seen any of the '80s films, so I made him marathon them before we went. Temple was his favourite, based on a fresh viewing in 2008 without any preconceptions of what to expect. My NZ girlfriend from the same period also liked Temple the most too. So we may be minority opinions, and I know that, but we exist.)
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Apr 8, 2023 00:46
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Parkingtigers posted:Is the movie dubiously racist? Oh gently caress yes, but name a movie pre-2000 that isn't sketchy as gently caress. Jurassic Park 2001 A Space Odyssey Alien, Aliens Tron Silence of the Lambs Independence Day Who Framed Rodger Rabbit Back to the Future I could keep going Edit— The Empire Strikes Back The Terminator, Terminator 2 John Carpenter’s The Thing
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Apr 8, 2023 01:05
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Silence of the Lambs is not a good one to have there
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Apr 8, 2023 01:06
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Who framed Roger Rabbti’s entire plot is (cartoon) racism!!!!
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Apr 8, 2023 01:06
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Snooze Cruise posted:Silence of the Lambs is not a good one to have there I guess it’s been a while since I watched it Happy Noodle Boy posted:Who framed Roger Rabbti’s entire plot is (cartoon) racism!!!! Yeah but the movie isn’t unabashedly racist when the plot is about addressing systemic racism and showing how it’s a problem. That’s like saying Roots is racist because it highlights racial injustice, or that Schindler’s List is antisemitic because the plot of the movie is the Holocaust Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 01:07
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ToD is great. I'm not gonna condone fan edits as a primary way to watch anything, but ToD would be a much more frequent watch for me with 10-15 of the most obnoxious and racist moments cut out. I'm sure someone has done something like that, but they also probably cut out stuff I love so I'd have to do it myself and that's too much work. Each of the first 3 flicks is pretty infinitely watchable, though. Plenty of valid criticisms can be launched at ToD or TLC, but none of them really matter in my book because the movies are so charming and fun. Sure, Crusade hits some similar beats to Raiders, but the addition of Connery to the dynamic lets it easily transcend that. Plus, they're riffs on serials. If the repetitive nature turns you off, that's on you. I'll happily watch 15 chapters of King of the Yukon even if it's the exact same thing over and over again because the formula is fun. Crystal Skull is such a bummer because so many of the ideas and pieces involved are great, but the script is a terrible unfocused bloated Frankenstein of other first drafts, Spielberg is phoning it in, and they leaned too heavily on SFX sequences that stretched beyond suspension of disbelief into cartoon territory. On paper, bitter Indy post-WWII dealing with the pulp fiction tropes of that era should be a slam dunk. Snip the family stuff out, get rid of all the age jokes, jettison the eye-rolling legacy references, reign in Blanchett by 10%, and switch the fire ants to giant THEM! ants... then, well, you've got a pretty solid movie on your hands. This one looks like it has potential, I just hope it's not forgetting its roots. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 01:07
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Xenomrph posted:Jurassic Park I'm making a more general point that most media is of its time and we have moved on a lot. That's not a challenge to point out some exceptions that disprove the rule. Especially when most of these examples don't disprove it. We going to ignore Jeanette Goldstein in brownface for Aliens (the movie)? Literally my favourite film of all time, we talk about it a lot in the good Aliens (the movie) thread, but that right there is a prime example of another great film that also contains something very "of its time". Do we also want to get into the sexual politics of Back to the Future where the only in story downside to Biff being so rapey is that Marty might end up not being born? Or the second film where they write out Jennifer because they don't know how to include her in a boys' adventure story? Empire Strikes Back, a loving god tier movie, doesn't even pass the Bechdel Test. I could keep going too. Films are great. Old films are great. I love the old films in spite of them being a product of their times.
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Apr 8, 2023 01:21
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Parkingtigers posted:You know how people point out that the ending of Raiders is the same no matter if Indy is there or not? The same is true of Last Crusade and Crystal Skull. Dude is a passenger in his own film. Not in Temple though, it's a man at the height of his powers kicking rear end. Movie loving owns. I can’t tell you how much I hate this Big Bang Theory argument.
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Apr 8, 2023 01:24
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Snooze Cruise posted:Silence of the Lambs is not a good one to have there That whole list is sus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-QzhLUmcoU
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Apr 8, 2023 01:30
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Parkingtigers posted:Empire Strikes Back, a loving god tier movie, doesn't even pass the Bechdel Test. Okay, so the Bechdel Test was never meant to apply to an individual movie like you’re doing here. It was meant to see how all movies are doing as an aggregate. But it’s been twisted over the years. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 01:30
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thrawn527 posted:Okay, so the Bechdel Test was never meant to apply to an individual movie like you’re doing here. It was meant to see how all movies are doing as an aggregate. But it’s been twisted over the years. More accurate to state that it was never meant to apply to movies generally at all, it being a throwaway gag in a lesbian comic strip. And as used originally, it very much *did* apply to individual films. That we've taken it and turned it into a meta gauge of general representation in movies overall is on us, not the cartoonists. It's also absolutely fine to point out that a mass market action adventure film with a large cast and hundreds of extras having one (1) women with a speaking role is a sign of the predominant sexism of the times. But that's a lot of words to type out when there is a two word phrase that does neatly summarise the whole thing.
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Apr 8, 2023 01:48
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Xenomrph posted:The Empire Strikes Back It's darkly funny to include ESB on this list, given that the only reason the movie has even one minority character of any importance is that Lucas got roasted by somebody (IIRC it was Landis?) about the overwhelming whiteness of ANH.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:10
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thrawn527 posted:Okay, so the Bechdel Test was never meant to apply to an individual movie like you’re doing here. It was meant to see how all movies are doing as an aggregate. But it’s been twisted over the years. Remembering when some Twitter weirdo complained about Fire Island failing the Bechdel test and lolling https://www.usatoday.com/story/ente...st/10004388002/
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Apr 8, 2023 02:15
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Mat Cauthon posted:It's darkly funny to include ESB on this list, given that the only reason the movie has even one minority character of any importance is that Lucas got roasted by somebody (IIRC it was Landis?) about the overwhelming whiteness of ANH. Samuel Delaney, iirc..?
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Apr 8, 2023 02:22
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I like last crusade as well. Although I will say it’s way sillier than raiders or temple is.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:31
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Parkingtigers posted:Temple of Doom is the best one, and it's not even close. It's the greatest B-movie ever made. I could literally rewatch it once a week, every week, for the rest of my life if needed. There's not an ounce of fat on its bones, it's a non-stop rollicking adventure and most importantly Indy is the driving force of the entire film. SMG is that you
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Apr 8, 2023 02:34
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Parkingtigers posted:Temple of Doom is the best one, and it's not even close. It's the greatest B-movie ever made. I could literally rewatch it once a week, every week, for the rest of my life if needed. There's not an ounce of fat on its bones, it's a non-stop rollicking adventure and most importantly Indy is the driving force of the entire film.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:36
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I love the heart rip scene because for one second it turns into a sam Raimi movie when the camera goes dutch and wild.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:38
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Parkingtigers posted:More accurate to state that it was never meant to apply to movies generally at all, it being a throwaway gag in a lesbian comic strip. And as used originally, it very much *did* apply to individual films. That we've taken it and turned it into a meta gauge of general representation in movies overall is on us, not the cartoonists. Well personally I still wish people would avoid using it. It does irk me that the act general use of it has sand off that context, that there could be a reason why lesbians are the ones discussing this, that now gets overlooked. Also just feels like part of the larger trend of the tv tropesfication of representation. Like it generally works as baseline to point out that "yeah this is a problem". But rapidly all discourse around these types of subjects in media are driven by rule sets which the primarily purpose of seems like a misguided attempt to define what is perfect representation and therefore the perfect product for the ease of mass consumption.
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Apr 8, 2023 03:24
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Mat Cauthon posted:It's darkly funny to include ESB on this list, given that the only reason the movie has even one minority character of any importance is that Lucas got roasted by somebody (IIRC it was Landis?) about the overwhelming whiteness of ANH. Yeah but the end result of that roasting is that we got Lando loving Calrissian, who rules
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Apr 8, 2023 03:25
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kiimo posted:Oh it's not her fault her character is a whiny screamy nails on the chalkboard poor replacement for a badass like Marion Ravenwood I feel like you could have said "The character of Willie Scott ruins it." For me, it's the racism and the tonal inconsistency. The racism is pretty simple - it's a pretty loving offensive portrayal of Indian culture. Like, I don't give two fucks about it being a pastiche of old timey adventure serials, racism is racism. Add to that the film seemingly having no idea whom it's meant to be aimed at - it's probably not the most appropriate thing to show to kids, but it's also got a lot of stuff that feels like it was recycled from an earlier draft of the Goonies. Who's it for?
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Apr 8, 2023 05:46
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It’s for me.
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Apr 8, 2023 05:49
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