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Anonymous Zebra
Oct 21, 2005
Blending in like it ain't no thang

PharmerBoy posted:

Is the old guy anyone of importance? I generally don't watch rear end in a top hat's videos on the principal of "Don't give them the views," so I don't particularly want to click on it if it's just some rando.

It's some no-name dude with a total of 55 views on his video. I'm not even sure how the OP came upon the video in the first place and now I'm mad that the Youtube algo is going to think I wanted to see it.

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YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

Let's begin a "not woke ENOUGH" movement

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
My condolences for the people posting here today who just discovered that YouTube has a huge pool of nobodies who use the website to post crazy right wing conspiracy rants to an audience of 20 people, but I don't personally care and don't see why this needed to be remarked upon.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
He's got 9,270 subscribers to his 4,600 videos. Is that considered good?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Gynovore posted:

He sounds like the sort of guy who legit tries to build a Peasant Railgun and then cries for fifteen minutes when the GM says "uhhhh no."
The peasant railgun doesn't even work. D&D 3.x does not have rules for momentum. It instantly travels the entire length of the "railgun", and then the guy at the end uses the normal throwing rules.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Halloween Jack posted:

He's got 9,270 subscribers to his 4,600 videos. Is that considered good?

I went looking at his pages in a private tab now. He's a guy with an Ebay store that he sells wargame figurines, supplies, and mini painting services through. The YouTube channel has been running since 2007 so most of the subscribers are just from it being a long-extant channel tied to a guy's business because he uses it to preview things his Ebay store sells.

He does have a massive slew of videos, mostly him playing various nerdy flight sims, X-COM, etc. that are lucky if they get mid double digit views. Plus some hot algorithm fodder with over 700 views, like a video about the Rings of Power show and others ranting about about how D&D is woke now. So yeah, whatever dumb poo poo is said in that D&D video is just more empty rage bait because that's what's given him attention and ad revenue.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Zereth posted:

The peasant railgun doesn't even work. D&D 3.x does not have rules for momentum. It instantly travels the entire length of the "railgun", and then the guy at the end uses the normal throwing rules.

Correct, it is a peasant teleportation device.

Piell posted:

Besides magic, there are two methods for mass transportation. The first method requires a large number of unskilled laborers, one for every 30 feet between destinations. To start, line up all the peasants 30 feet apart, then have them all delay until they're at the same initiative. The first peasant picks up whatever you need transported (bags of holding loaded with objects are a good choice here) as a move action, walks 30 feet as a second move action, and then drops it, where it is then picked up by the second peasant, and so on. You can then either have the peasants walk back to their starting point or carry something the other way in the second round. This costs 17.6 gp per mile per day. Assuming the peasants work 8 hours a day, have average strength, and carry their maximum light load each round, they can move 47.52 tons per day in each direction. You can move more weight if you decrease the distance between peasants to 20 feet, so that they can carry a heavy load each way. The cost per mile per day goes up to 26.4 gp, but you can move 144 tons each direction per day.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
How do you "have" a miles-long train of people all do something in the same six-second span of time

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Halloween Jack posted:

How do you "have" a miles-long train of people all do something in the same six-second span of time

Overly literal interpretation of a turn based game with non simultaneous resolution.

You don't. The peasant railgun and everything stemming from it has always fallen apart under the slightest glance.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




Halloween Jack posted:

How do you "have" a miles-long train of people all do something in the same six-second span of time

quote:

Manipulate an Item
In most cases, moving or manipulating an item is a move action.

This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door.

Drop an Item
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.

Peasant drops item, next peasant picks it up and drops it in their own square, and so on. This all happens within on Six Second Round.

It's game mechanics is all.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Exactly. It works game-mechanically, but coordinating that many people to act simultaneously goes beyond game mechanics and isn't possible. It's not quite as obviously dumb as "use Iron Heart Surge to turn the sun off," but it's close.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

SkyeAuroline posted:

Overly literal interpretation of a turn based game with non simultaneous resolution.

You don't. The peasant railgun and everything stemming from it has always fallen apart under the slightest glance.

Peasant teleportation delivery service is 100% rules legal, unlike peasant railgun, it's only complete nonsense when you are treating it realistically instead of by game rules

Piell fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Apr 7, 2023

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


Had a GM once deal with a very successful cast of Sleep (knocked down I think 6 low level baddies) by having the one remaining awake low level baddy in the same initiative group walk up to his sleeping friend and spend an action waking him. His friend woke up and took his turn standing up and waking the guy next to him, who woke the guy next to him, etc, to the point where they were all awake again within that turn.

The net result of this was the level one cleric who had been feeling really good about a successfully cast spell just never used Sleep again. Not sure that's what the GM was going for.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
costing six enemies their turn is still a really good deal in most systems, although obviously in the case you're describing there's still cause for frustration (assuming the expectation was "now the encounter is over")

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

what the GM was going for was showing off how smart they are, and it worked, I'm sure everyone was like "woah you can do that with the rules, gosh"

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

One of my favorite rule-lawyering in D&D 3.5E was with the antimagic field and the enlarge spell. Since the AM field temporarily suppress all the magic, and not just part of it, you can cast use permanence and an enlarge spell on a stick to create perpetual motion with an AM field.

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


Leperflesh posted:

what the GM was going for was showing off how smart they are, and it worked, I'm sure everyone was like "woah you can do that with the rules, gosh"

Well, it was more "woah, the GM can do that with the rules" as nobody else had multiple characters on the same initiative.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


Halloween Jack posted:

He's got 9,270 subscribers to his 4,600 videos. Is that considered good?

Not really, if he were catching on with something besides racists he would have 10-100 times that.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Lamuella posted:

Well, it was more "woah, the GM can do that with the rules" as nobody else had multiple characters on the same initiative.

Right but they could, by using the delay action, if they're playing most (all?) versions of D&D, but anyway yeah sometimes GMs forget their key responsibilities and engage with the game rules the same way some players do - looking for optimal combinations to get the best possible results. And then showing that off to the other players because hey, look what I can do!

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben

Leperflesh posted:

Right but they could, by using the delay action, if they're playing most (all?) versions of D&D, but anyway yeah sometimes GMs forget their key responsibilities and engage with the game rules the same way some players do - looking for optimal combinations to get the best possible results. And then showing that off to the other players because hey, look what I can do!

I mean, depending on the version the enemies would have been woken by “the noise of combat” next turn anyway, so the DM did them a favour by having them waste actions.

TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018

Comstar posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNWrfLV_K0E

Old guy complains about D&D and WoTC is woke and "filled with 90% left wokists with blue hair and use pronouns...They are the real racists!"

He's complaining about a fantasy world is not his fantasy world anymore. Why yes, race does come up. And it gets worse and worse through the video. If you want to watch it, better be fast before it gets taken down. He complains that every module has gay people in it in every page. And demonic themed adventures too where you join with the devils every module too! He believes some of the writers have sold their souls to the devil. Then he complains about Tieflings are children of daemons but then wants half orcs still.


I was originally not sure about removing half elves etc...well he's convinced me now. It needs to be removed. Make it someone's culture.

There are literally thousands of these small fish and this is barely even schizophrenic enough to warrant commentary. I remember finding someone who had made a whopping 30 videos on Brie Larson's feet and her lack of painted nails (this means that the Captain Marvel movie is going to fail!)

Thanlis
Mar 17, 2011

The public ORC draft is out. https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si9y

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

There are literally thousands of these small fish and this is barely even schizophrenic enough to warrant commentary. I remember finding someone who had made a whopping 30 videos on Brie Larson's feet and her lack of painted nails (this means that the Captain Marvel movie is going to fail!)

I don't know how I ended up seeing his channel (I think he might have done some wargame video's at some point), but I hadn't actually seen any of these "D&D is too woke for me now. Also, WotC has people taken over by the devil writing for them now" myself. And 9k subscribers for a wargamers channel actually seems pretty high to me.

Has any other game systems decided to remove "race" from their game? Seems like everyone's going to end up doing it in the next 5 years.


Apologies to anyone who stuffed up their YouTube algorithm clicking the link.

Comstar fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Apr 8, 2023

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?

Comstar posted:

Has any other game systems decided to remove "race" from their game? Seems like everyone's going to end up doing it in the next 5 years.

It's been a pretty common movement in the D&D-alike space, at the very least. Pathfinder 2e uses ancestry, 13th Age 2e uses kin, honestly D&D is the weirdest for using something overly scientific like species.

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021

Pathfinder renamed races to ancestries between editions and a recent errata to 2e has decoupled specific ability score boosts and penalties from ancestry. (Technically it's an alternate creation method.) I think it's more common for some games, especially on the smaller scale of the hobby, to have just never bothered using "race" in such terms anyway.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009


A game-agnostic open source RPG license with guidance for how to use it (as they do in the draft with "product identity") is great. That "the community" deserves to be able to make money from other designers' hard work is something I don't get at all.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

homullus posted:

A game-agnostic open source RPG license with guidance for how to use it (as they do in the draft with "product identity") is great. That "the community" deserves to be able to make money from other designers' hard work is something I don't get at all.

It has been 23 years since the OGL was released and it’s been unequivocally a success for the people selling products under it. If you don’t want a third-party commercial community for your game don’t put it under the OGL or the ORC, nothing’s forcing you to.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Arivia posted:

It has been 23 years since the OGL was released and it’s been unequivocally a success for the people selling products under it. If you don’t want a third-party commercial community for your game don’t put it under the OGL or the ORC, nothing’s forcing you to.

Is this a form of "if you don't like it, you don't have to use it"? I agree, and I do like it, but would probably not use it. What you wrote is not a meaningful response to what I was saying, which is "no game owes people an OGL." Even if it had been 230 years.

PharmerBoy
Jul 21, 2008
You seem to be implying that ORC, or people wishing to use ORC, are forcing groups into this agreement. Do you have any significant sources to this effect? Significant, because as was just discussed with the YouTube vid, you will always be able to find at least one weirdo somewhere on the internet with a bad opinion

Absent that, you're concerned about a scenario that isn't happening and shows no sign of happening.

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021

Nobody was talking about a game owing such a license or people "deserving" to make money off another game, that's something you brought in. It was poo poo that Wizards offered the deal for so long, very much to their advantage, and then tried to gently caress around with it on very short notice. But it was poo poo because it was on short notice and very controlling in how they clearly were trying to rewrite the deal to screw people. Even the announcement from Paizo and the FAQ was about how they think it's a good thing to have out there on offer for people to take advantage of if they so choose, not that it's specifically deserved or owed to people.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
No game "owes" anyone an OGL, but the OGL has been in the long-run a massive success for WotC in driving people into their arms and solidifying D&D as the dominant game of the current day and that success is built on the backs of other peoples' labor, so I'm going to say that yes the community does deserve to be able to make money from this since the community is making money for WotC. Whether you view this as a legitimate transactional relationship in the technical workplace since is, imo, completely irrelevant to the actual material reality of the situation.

Or to put it another way:

Arivia posted:

If you don’t want a third-party commercial community for your game don’t put it under the OGL or the ORC, nothing’s forcing you to.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Comstar posted:

I don't know how I ended up seeing his channel (I think he might have done some wargame video's at some point), but I hadn't actually seen any of these "D&D is too woke for me now. Also, WotC has people taken over by the devil writing for them now" myself. And 9k subscribers for a wargamers channel actually seems pretty high to me.

Has any other game systems decided to remove "race" from their game? Seems like everyone's going to end up doing it in the next 5 years.


Apologies to anyone who stuffed up their YouTube algorithm clicking the link.

You probably saw his channel because youtube has been pushing videos with smaller view counts right now. My frontpage is full of videos with sub-100 views.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

PharmerBoy posted:

You seem to be implying that ORC, or people wishing to use ORC, are forcing groups into this agreement. Do you have any significant sources to this effect? Significant, because as was just discussed with the YouTube vid, you will always be able to find at least one weirdo somewhere on the internet with a bad opinion

Absent that, you're concerned about a scenario that isn't happening and shows no sign of happening.
Nobody who is in a position to use ORC is being pressured to do anything, except maybe by it being useful for them. I think you would agree that ORC, or something less extreme but free and explicitly open about what things you think are "yours" in what you made, is generally good for independent designers. It means other people can freely create content for their system, creating more stuff "out there" to inspire people to pick up the core book or PDF or whatever. Right? We agree about that?

disposablewords posted:

Nobody was talking about a game owing such a license or people "deserving" to make money off another game, that's something you brought in. It was poo poo that Wizards offered the deal for so long, very much to their advantage, and then tried to gently caress around with it on very short notice. But it was poo poo because it was on short notice and very controlling in how they clearly were trying to rewrite the deal to screw people. Even the announcement from Paizo and the FAQ was about how they think it's a good thing to have out there on offer for people to take advantage of if they so choose, not that it's specifically deserved or owed to people.
This, on the other hand, is exactly what I was talking about. What's "short notice"? Notice is only "short" when it's less than you think you should have gotten, in a bad way. What's "rewrite the deal to screw people"? Deals only screw people when they are getting less than they think they should have gotten. Oh, no, people aren't talking about deserving things, no, but it's lovely short notice screwing people over, what WotC did, but no, nobody felt they deserved something? I'm not convinced!

WotC is a corporation doing a mediocre job of managing a mediocre product. I don't care about them. I find the entitlement of the RPG community on the OGL issue alienating, though.


Kai Tave posted:

yes the community does deserve to be able to make money from this since the community is making money for WotC
where else does this happen? Store franchises, maybe, but those you have to buy into, as I understand it. Where else?

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
I mean, OGL has been the standard that people have in this space used for going on 2 decades now.

Trying to change the terms on a status quo that has been set in stone for that period of time, with a number of people's business plans being based around said status quo is kinda bullshit.

If WotC had just made their OGL 2 completely seperate and written specifically for whatever the next version or iteration of D&D was, people probably would have complained, people with an understanding and memory of history would laugh, and maybe they get away with it. Until it blows up in their face later.

But it was specifically the notion that they were trying to change the overall terms from underneath people, that got people loving pissed.

I guess it's entitlement technically, but uh, there are some kinda normal decent business and human things that people should be entitled to, or expect.

And guess what, at the end of the day WotC could have kept pushing forward, no one complaining is actually owed anything, but people do have the right to voice their displeasure, and turns out enough people did that they stopped because making these changes was causing harm to their business/brand/reputation.


Like they did the thing you absolutely cannot do, if you want to have people still use your poo poo, and stay around the D&D/D20/SDCIWCh realm to make sure they stay close to the market leader.

And that's make people realize that anything they release under it could have on a whim it's terms changed on you, with ability to do anything other than stop selling it.

Dexo fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Apr 8, 2023

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021

homullus posted:

This, on the other hand, is exactly what I was talking about. What's "short notice"? Notice is only "short" when it's less than you think you should have gotten, in a bad way. What's "rewrite the deal to screw people"? Deals only screw people when they are getting less than they think they should have gotten. Oh, no, people aren't talking about deserving things, no, but it's lovely short notice screwing people over, what WotC did, but no, nobody felt they deserved something? I'm not convinced!

"Short notice" was in terms of about 3 weeks, from initial announcement to initial deadline for when OGL 1.0 was going to be deauthorized for continued use. Books do not take mere weeks get out, so when Wizards was deciding to shift things around on everyone they were potentially pulling the rug out from under people with no real time to do anything, people who were operating on a deal they had taken in good faith. And yes a deal that massively benefited Wizards because it made them the focal point of a massive segment of the industry, even more than D&D already was. Plus adding in a profit-sharing demand if you made too much, including cuts of Kickstarters. It's behavior that showed they were untrustworthy and willing to arbitrarily change terms to their own advantage.

But sure, not being happy at that is "entitlement." Three weeks is totally good warning time, everyone's just a crying baby parasite who wants to suck the life out of the Captains Of The RPG Industry.

PharmerBoy
Jul 21, 2008
Homullus, I'm at a loss as to what you don't like about the situation. You're coming across as unhappy about either a)two consenting adults/corporations/combo thereof are entering freely into an agreement they find mutually beneficial, or b)consumers in that industry are pleased about actions that indicate future additional development of products their interested in.

Serious question, I am not understanding the complaint.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
"entitlement" is a good way to frame it, but specifically to think of it as "an entitlement", as in, yes, you're not "owed" social security, but screwing with it is unpopular enough that you shouldn't

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Could someone use both ORC and the OGL at the same time? Cause you can from what I can tell, but I have not looked too closely.

Thanlis
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Could someone use both ORC and the OGL at the same time? Cause you can from what I can tell, but I have not looked too closely.

Uhhhhh maybe?

You have to license anything derived from the OGL under the OGL. The equivalent is true for ORC material. So I suppose if you were insanely careful not to mingle material derived from the two licenses, sure?

Seems like a really hard idea, though.

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




gradenko_2000 posted:

"entitlement" is a good way to frame it, but specifically to think of it as "an entitlement", as in, yes, you're not "owed" social security, but screwing with it is unpopular enough that you shouldn't

Political derail in the spoiler.

Point of order. I am in fact entitled to Social Security benefits. I have been paying into the system, I am entitled to get benefits out. Making "entitlements" a derogatory phrase is a right-wing talking point meant to get people to vote against their own interests. It's also a bit of Newspeak, because in plain English being entitled to something means it is yours by right, not some handout you get for free.

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