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There’s certainly ‘reasonable’ reasons for why the clause is there, but it might be more interesting for its clause to be something like it’s controller can’t target it or whatever. Which, is where I somehow set up some sick Double Perplexing Chimera into infinite clones combo that is definitely real and good and will break all formats completely. Please don’t look at my other jank combo decks and use this statement against me.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:56
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Was worried that tokens of flip cards (that don’t exile when transforming) would kill themselves on flip, but if I googled correctly, instead nothing happens when the flip conditions are met. Unfortunately not the case for Fable.
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Apr 8, 2023 03:08
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Rinkles posted:Was worried that tokens of flip cards (that don’t exile when transforming) would kill themselves on flip, but if I googled correctly, instead nothing happens when the flip conditions are met. Tokens can't transform period for another week or so.
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Apr 8, 2023 03:09
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Sylvian Wastes posted:Ethan Fleischer has a twitter thread about the new planechase planes up. The diamond rain plane sounds cool. Might even be a cool twist for a wild west theme if they ever go there, a diamond desert is a cool twist on the landscape. I also love that one of the scariest cards of all time in Magic is a dude who can turn stuff into elks.
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Apr 8, 2023 03:37
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Oh it has a name.... https://twitter.com/EthanFleischer/status/1644169141291745280
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Apr 8, 2023 03:49
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Khanstant posted:The diamond rain plane sounds cool. Might even be a cool twist for a wild west theme if they ever go there, a diamond desert is a cool twist on the landscape. I still find Oko hilarious but a lot of players with a lot lower tolerance for dumb bullshit mostly just remember Oko as the final straw in years of blatant, obviously pushed and overpowered cards from Kaladesh to War of the Spark. So they just get real mad about being reminded about Magic's balance being so scattershot for years at that point. I find it even funnier because almost nobody spotted Oko in spoiler season, thinking giving your opponents a 3/3 in exchange for whatever scary creature or artifact you wanted to remove was too big a drawback for a +1 ability on a Planeswalker. God I wish I had the receipts of the called shot I made when someone told me that it was a plus ability and not a minus (because, man, I really thought it was a minus ability the way everyone was talking about it) and the poo poo I got back when I said that the only thing might not make him the stupidest card WotC printed that year was they'd just printed T3feri and Hogaak. So much for 'blatant' and 'obvious'. ... poo poo, I'd forgotten that we got T3feri, Hogaak, and Oko within like five months of each other. 2019 was a goddamn mess, wasn't it? Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 04:01
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quote:Portal Three Kingdoms doesn't take place on a plane of Magic's Multiverse. It's more akin to a Universes Beyond thing, set in the historical novel The Romance of the Three Kingdoms Very Magic way to sidestep the problems there, makes sense.
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Apr 8, 2023 04:02
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Mr. Locke posted:I find it even funnier because almost nobody spotted Oko in spoiler season, thinking giving your opponents a 3/3 in exchange for whatever scary creature or artifact you wanted to remove was too big a drawback for a +1 ability on a Planeswalker. God I wish I had at of the called shot I made when someone told me that it was a plus ability and not a minus (because, man, I really thought it was a minus ability the way everyone was talking about it) and the poo poo I got back when I said that the only thing might not make him the stupidest card WotC printed that year was they'd just printed T3feri and Hogaak. So much for 'blatant' and 'obvious'. nobody realized how good oko was initially because it was one of the first cards spoiled and "create a food token" was left unexplained, so basically everyone mentally filled the card away since they literally did not understand what the card did. kinda like how people slept on white plume adventurer because nobody understood what "you take the initiative" or "venture into the undercity" meant
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Apr 8, 2023 04:10
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jpmeyer posted:nobody realized how good oko was initially because it was one of the first cards spoiled and "create a food token" was left unexplained, so basically everyone mentally filled the card away since they literally did not understand what the card did. kinda like how people slept on white plume adventurer because nobody understood what "you take the initiative" or "venture into the undercity" meant Fair. I'm pretty sure I still didn't understand the potency of 'You take the Initiative' for like weeks after release. Especially since we'd already gotten one set with dungeons where the mechanic was a massive shrug even in Standard, and here we are talking about it in a set that wasn't even Standard legal and I didn't stop to think of it as primarily a Limited/Pioneer player.
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Apr 8, 2023 04:14
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Even understanding exactly how Initiative works, it's not particularly great overall and the only reason it caused problems is because Legacy and Pauper are hideously warped and broken formats.
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Apr 8, 2023 04:28
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i wasn't around for eldraine but based off the top two comments from the reddit thread.. seems like lots of people had an idea that it would be strong.. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/cz9b05/eld_oko_thief_of_crowns/ quote:I know we are all wondering what Food Tokens are, but that +1 as a Beast Within is pretty powerful. quote:I already hate playing against him.
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Apr 8, 2023 04:33
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I don't think bo1 mono blue wants a 4 mana win more card. Maybe you run it in Grixis if you want to be cute
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Apr 8, 2023 05:52
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oh I got it... it goes in Rogues. Mercurial Spelldancer shenanigans edit: hmm 
CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 06:10
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precision posted:I don't think bo1 mono blue wants a 4 mana win more card. Maybe you run it in Grixis if you want to be cute You can copy your opponents dudes so it isn't as win more as the ones the just copy yours. Might be useful against Sheoldred. Don't know if being able to copy spells makes it useful enough in the control mirror to be maindeck worthy.
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Apr 8, 2023 06:27
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I can see being able to copy spells in a control mirror might end up being pretty good if you copy one of their spicy planeswalkers and get an added threat to own them with.
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Apr 8, 2023 09:38
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Interesting that LR doesn't have their Channel Fireball sponsorship anymore... Also their kind of set review style show where you go over each individual card just isn't that helpful it getting up to speed on what is going on with a set. I've found Limited Level Up's are doing a better review.
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Apr 8, 2023 14:32
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If you can't use it to make a geometrically expanding army of Ivy, then what's even the point?
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Apr 8, 2023 14:44
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mcmagic posted:Interesting that LR doesn't have their Channel Fireball sponsorship anymore... Also their kind of set review style show where you go over each individual card just isn't that helpful it getting up to speed on what is going on with a set. I've found Limited Level Up's are doing a better review. Does CFB sponsor anyone any more, since the TCGPlayer and then eBay buyouts?
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Apr 8, 2023 15:16
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Silhouette posted:Does CFB sponsor anyone any more, since the TCGPlayer and then eBay buyouts? Yes. But they're also losing content creators.
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Apr 8, 2023 16:06
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Even understanding exactly how Initiative works, it's not particularly great overall and the only reason it caused problems is because Legacy and Pauper are hideously warped and broken formats. This isn't true at all. Initiative is extremely powerful in any 1v1 format and would dominate modern/standard. It's significantly stronger then monarch due to three factors. 1. It happens right away and then at upkeep instead of end of turn. 2. It's specific effects you plan for instead of a random card from your deck. 3. It stacks when you have multiple triggers. Initiative is a fast clock that also provides long term value against a control deck and basically says "The game is now based on this one thing that I've built my entire deck around."
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Apr 8, 2023 16:07
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Rinkles posted:This is one of the best clone variants ever, right? It costs 4 and isn't a permanent and has a no-copying clause to prevent anything interesting from happening, so no, it's pretty meh. In exchange you get a second mode that's even worse with a magic christmas land clause to distract you from how individually the parts aren't good.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:34
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What is the best clone? Phimage? Phyrexian Metamorph?
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Apr 8, 2023 18:39
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fadam posted:What is the best clone? Phimage? Phyrexian Metamorph? Right now? Orvar is the most played.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:42
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"Guys, gals, nonbinary pals! Welcome to March Of The Machine! Where you too can play a turn 1 Ragavan!" -Ben Ulster The LLR pre-pre-release is going on, and the first play is mountain, ragavan. Lol.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:45
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fadam posted:What is the best clone? Phimage? Phyrexian Metamorph? Phantasmal Image by a factor of 10, because a card is 10 times worse for each time its mana value goes up. Then it's Phyrexian Metamorph 2nd. Glasspool Mimic costs 3 and is a land, then it's a pretty steep drop to Body Double and Stunt Double, but at least they have combo applications Shakashima of a Thousand Faces is somewhere close to the top but only in the context of partnering with Krark the Thumbless.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:46
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It costs 4 and isn't a permanent and has a no-copying clause to prevent anything interesting from happening, so no, it's pretty meh. I think it's probably better than you're giving it credit for. Maybe as a one or two of in a control deck.... Copying a Sheoldred or an Invoke Dispair is something I would have some interest in.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:56
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Spark Double making non-legendary copies of legendaries is sick tech in some decks Anyway this discussion has pushed the brain button, I'm gonna do the Rogues See Double explorer deck on arena on release lol (I know it's jank that's why I am going to play Errant, Street Artist in it lol)
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Apr 8, 2023 18:56
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The rules about clones have updated so that with the addition of transforming tokens, tokens that copy a transforming permanent can do so as well. Nontoken permanents that aren't double-faced can't transform even when copying one and still can't.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:59
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I think a lot of y'all are underestimating it. Instant speed, gets ETBs, and can clone opponent's thing not just your own creature makes it way more playable as a generically good card.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:00
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It costs 4 and isn't a permanent and has a no-copying clause to prevent anything interesting from happening, so no, it's pretty meh. it being a spell isn't entirely a downside, and how are the parts not individually good? maybe not good enough for standard, but idk how you can say that about an instant speed clone, that's also so much more, even if you're discounting the threshold+1 mode. Sylvian Wastes posted:The rules about clones have updated so that with the addition of transforming tokens, tokens that copy a transforming permanent can do so as well. i'm guessing this doesn't include exile transformations like fable?
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Apr 8, 2023 19:02
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Sylvian Wastes posted:"Guys, gals, nonbinary pals! Welcome to March Of The Machine! Where you too can play a turn 1 Ragavan!" -Ben Ulster Barf
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Apr 8, 2023 19:05
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When was the last clone that didn't get ETBs?
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Apr 8, 2023 19:07
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Ragavan and some fancy Dockside were some of my earliest pulls from random booster packs I bought when I just started and wanted to open a buncha crap. I traded them and a foil stomping grounds into my LGS for store credit before they told me the credit couldn't be used towards draft entry fees or booster boxes, which was annoying. I've never actually had to deal with Ragavan or Dockside in a match, just never seen em played, but I still have this negative reaction to them just because of my regret selling them in that way.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:15
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HootTheOwl posted:Right now? Orvar is the most played. I wouldn't call Orvar a clone in the way I wouldn't call Ivy a Fork. Clone shows up as a copy of a thing, Orvar has to go through extra steps with an extra spell to create copies of things. You don't get to choose to discard Orvar for a copy, either. mcmagic posted:I think it's probably better than you're giving it credit for. Maybe as a one or two of in a control deck.... Copying a Sheoldred or an Invoke Dispair is something I would have some interest in. Traditionally, playing copy effects to copy your opponent's stuff hasn't been good, because it means you aren't playing good cards, and instead letting your opponent play good cards, to enable you to play good cards. You should probably just play good cards so you can do things yourself. Ertai Resurrected costs the same and critically does not let your opponent resolve Invoke Despair or control a Sheoldred, which are very important factors. Rinkles posted:it being a spell isn't entirely a downside, Can't bounce or flicker tokens, which are important parts of Clone value, getting to reuse them to clone something else and/or get another ETB. Making a token copy loses that. Instead, it can get countered by Veil of Summer. quote:and how are the parts not individually good? maybe not good enough for standard, but idk how you can say that about an instant speed clone, that's also so much more, Everything that the instant-speed clone Stunt Double accomplishes relies on it being a creature card, such as reanimation, blinks, and Animar's cost reduction. Even in the deck that doesn't use it for having Flash, it's still something Gyudra can reanimate. quote:even if you're discounting the threshold+1 mode. It's bad before that and if if I have to do something exceptional to make a card worth it then it should win the game on the spot.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:19
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mossyfisk posted:When was the last clone that didn't get ETBs? Ludevic style transformations
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Apr 8, 2023 19:20
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Rinkles posted:it being a spell isn't entirely a downside, and how are the parts not individually good? maybe not good enough for standard, but idk how you can say that about an instant speed clone, that's also so much more, even if you're discounting the threshold+1 mode. Yeah, the tokens still destroy themselves if they hit exile even if its part of their transformation. edit: but if you have ways of replicating counters, shifting counters around, and forcing a permanent to transform in your deck, you can probably elaborately bypass some exile transformations. Sylvian Wastes fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 19:29
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Can't bounce or flicker tokens, which are important parts of Clone value, getting to reuse them to clone something else and/or get another ETB. Making a token copy loses that. Instead, it can get countered by Veil of Summer. i mean it's a different card, with different strengths and weaknesses. like, you can't copy a reanimation spell (that might fizzle the original) with a normal clone. in mono u it gets discounted by djinn, and feeds the terror even if discarded. though, i agree with your point about the problem with relying on your opponent to play something good.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:37
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The new rules are up, but their usual article with comprehensive rules changes are not: If you were trying to combo with battles by having them ETB without any counters, that will not be one weird trick to break a seige. quote:If a battle’s defense is 0 and it isn’t the source of an ability which has triggered but not yet left the stack, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.) quote:310.9. A battle can’t be attached to players or permanents, even if it is also an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification. If a battle is somehow attached to a permanent, it becomes unattached. This is a state-based action (see rule 704). quote:202.3b The mana value of a transforming double-faced permanent or spell’s back face is calculated as though it had the mana cost of its front face. If a permanent or spell is a copy of the back face of a transforming double-faced card (even if the card representing that copy is itself a double-faced card), the mana value of the copy is 0. quote:310.11b Sieges have the intrinsic ability “When the last defense counter is removed from this permanent, exile it, then you may cast it transformed without paying its mana cost.” quote:712.9. Only transforming tokens and permanents represented by transforming double-faced cards can transform or convert.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:48
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where are the rules? link?
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Apr 8, 2023 20:12
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Strong Sauce posted:where are the rules? link? https://magic.wizards.com/en/rules
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Apr 8, 2023 20:16
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