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bird food bathtub posted:The few times I've tried this with conservatives I know or have to deal with they wrote me off as loony liberal leftie that just doesn't get facts and logic. There are two genders and you're a brainwashed fool falling for the lies if you point out anything different. Absolute brick wall. Nothing penetrates. At all. Modern genetics, ancient historical depictions, present day societies. Nothing. It's all wrong. There are two genders and gently caress you if you try to say anything else. One weird little thing that seems to give them pause is asking them why male seahorses carry the babies. A lot of them don't even know that. Or that a jellyfish, one of the oldest species on the planet, can be hermaphordites? Also, OK, let's say there are only two genders and we're all born that way. How do they conflate this supposition with their belief that gay people aren't born homosexual? Where a MAN likes to have sex with a MAN or a woman with a woman? Without the two categorical genders, doesn't that argument kind of break down? BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 23:54
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Stop trying to make it make sense. It doesn't make sense, it will never make sense, trans people make them feel odd and insecure and they justify their feeling post-hoc in a way that's comfortable to them.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:06
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Yeah you're not going to trip them up with facts because they don't care at all about facts. I've tried many times but I understand it's futile, I just like to argue with bigots.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:22
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The people who engage online with this kind of bullshit basically just parrot RWM talking points. You're not going to talk them out of it because it's not based on their own experience. It's not a legitimately held belief. You see this in the recent Chicago election maps. Generally, the people in the safest areas of the city voted for Vallas, and the people in the most dangerous areas of the city voted for Johnson. People talking about rampant rise in crime don't actually go to the places they're complaining about and share basically the same crime anecdotes they've always had from local news. When you press them on things they've actually seen themselves they just talk about public drug use which is a function of homelessness. Frequently they just talk about homelessness as if it's a crime. The other thing is that with rent skyrocketing and the rise of work from home, a lot of people are moving for other reasons or priced out of where they were living. Or, they've always lived in a suburb and honestly just don't go into the city anymore because they don't need to. If you were actually living in SF, and got priced out, isn't it a better story to say you left of your own volition due to all the crime? Same goes for NYC or any other large metro with a diverse population. There's always been this kind of rhetoric, but it's become easier than ever to traffic in because things are so segregated and there's never been less need for conservatives to go anywhere they might enounter diverse groups of people. ErIog fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 00:29
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Trans people are an easy strawman argument for conservatives because it always loops back to "nothing this person does will make them a real woman, they are just delusional men.". They have a very linear sense of logic to the whole thing-if you were assigned male at birth and have a penis and testicles you are male (forever), if you were assigned female at birth and have a vagina then you are female (forever). It's an extremely binary approach that makes any granular variation of gender expression purely make believe to them. I think at least some of the hostility about all of it is because they fear if they have to accept a man presenting as a woman is the same as a person physically born as a woman then they would accept all sorts of illogical nonsense. So referring to someone by their preferred pronouns is a bridge too far. It's a slippery slope to them, 2+2=5 and all that. Of course we all know they already are doing the "accept illogical delusion then become willing to accept other illogical delusions" already.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:34
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PT6A posted:Stop trying to make it make sense. It doesn't make sense, it will never make sense, trans people make them feel odd and insecure and they justify their feeling post-hoc in a way that's comfortable to them. And even this is a stretch. It seems mostly like trans bullshit is a socially acceptable way to voice general anti-queer animus. They know it makes them look bigoted to be anti-gay so they want to avoid it. They do the same thing on racism. And it's following the same patterns where powerful liberals and Democrats also traffic in it for way longer than the actual mainstream of the country before someone beats them over the head with the fact that it's just bigotry and none of the arguments are well-founded. Progression of race science bullshit: overt bigotry -> Lee Atwater dog whistling -> The Bell Curve -> a bunch of Democrat bullshit like the 90's crime bill and welfare reform Progression of gay bullshit: overt bigotry -> concern trolling AIDS, drug use, lesbian bed death, and "the gay lifestyle" -> a bunch of Democrat bullshit like DoMA Progression of trans bullshit: overt bigotry -> concern trolling about women's sports and children -> a bunch of Democrat bullshit like the Biden administration letting schools violate Title IX but only for trans kids If conservatives are 50 years behind the times, Democrats are like 20 and we're told that's really significant progress even though we know that in 20 years trans people will be widely accepted with Democrat politicians having to be dragged kicking and screaming Panfilo posted:Trans people are an easy strawman argument for conservatives because it always loops back to "nothing this person does will make them a real woman, they are just delusional men.". They have a very linear sense of logic to the whole thing-if you were assigned male at birth and have a penis and testicles you are male (forever), if you were assigned female at birth and have a vagina then you are female (forever). It's an extremely binary approach that makes any granular variation of gender expression purely make believe to them. I think at least some of the hostility about all of it is because they fear if they have to accept a man presenting as a woman is the same as a person physically born as a woman then they would accept all sorts of illogical nonsense. So referring to someone by their preferred pronouns is a bridge too far. It's a slippery slope to them, 2+2=5 and all that. Of course we all know they already are doing the "accept illogical delusion then become willing to accept other illogical delusions" already. This isn't any different from the poo poo they said about gay people. "Nobody's really gay. They're delusional because they've all been traumatized or molested or their parents were bad. They're just doing it to be troublemakers in society. They could choose not to be gay, but they've been brainwashed into the alluring gay lifestyle." ErIog fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 00:43
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ErIog posted:The people who engage online with this kind of bullshit basically just parrot RWM talking points. You're not going to talk them out of it because it's not based on their own experience. It's not a legitimately held belief. You see this in the recent Chicago election maps. Generally, the people in the safest areas of the city voted for Vallas, and the people in the most dangerous areas of the city voted for Johnson. There's a great deal to be said about the perception of crime. The Gift of Fear addressed it in several parts is the book. Bars on windows, police sirens blaring, litter, homeless people, etc get associated with "crime" by reactionaries. Quite ironically, the Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings crowd has strong feelings about crime. Not crime statistics per se but the 'feelings' of being unsafe. This can conveniently mean whatever they want. Now we're all guilty of this to an extent- we feel unsafe in places that are actually pretty safe in spite of appearances. But people with critical thinking skills can separate their own personal impressions with statistics as a whole. Conservatives refuse to do this. And I've seen conservatives observe those voting trends in Chicago. The way they interpret is simply that leftists are dumb and willingly vote themselves into extinction. It's the same general answer they'll give when you ask why hardly any big cities are run by republican administrations.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:53
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Also it bears repeating that transphobia is just about always based on misogyny and toxic masculinity. Try explaining to bathroom police that they need to let a 225lb powerlifter with a beard into the ladies restroom and you'll get ignored or subject changed. They are only ever concerned about transgender women.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:00
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ErIog posted:The people who engage online with this kind of bullshit basically just parrot RWM talking points. You're not going to talk them out of it because it's not based on their own experience. It's not a legitimately held belief. You see this in the recent Chicago election maps. Generally, the people in the safest areas of the city voted for Vallas, and the people in the most dangerous areas of the city voted for Johnson. By the way, the explanation for this from right wingers (and liberals, but I repeat myself) is either: "If you look at the areas by race it's clear that these people just voted for the candidate with the same color skin as themselves" or "Of course criminals are going to vote for the person who's soft on crime."
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Apr 7, 2023 01:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkzFrz_MEzU https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-scotus-undisclosed-luxury-travel-gifts-crow "For more than two decades, Thomas has accepted luxury trips virtually every year from the Dallas businessman without disclosing them, documents and interviews show. A public servant who has a salary of $285,000, he has vacationed on Crow’s superyacht around the globe. He flies on Crow’s Bombardier Global 5000 jet. He has gone with Crow to the Bohemian Grove, the exclusive California all-male retreat, and to Crow’s sprawling ranch in East Texas. And Thomas typically spends about a week every summer at Crow’s private resort in the Adirondacks." "These trips appeared nowhere on Thomas’ financial disclosures. His failure to report the flights appears to violate a law passed after Watergate that requires justices, judges, members of Congress and federal officials to disclose most gifts, two ethics law experts said. He also should have disclosed his trips on the yacht, these experts said."
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Apr 7, 2023 01:03
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OgNar posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkzFrz_MEzU Talk radio tomorrow (if they even report it): The radical left wing real racists are going after Clarence Thomas again just because he's a conservative black man with a conservative white wife. What hypocrites they are! Here's a report of Sonya Sotomayor accepting tickets from a friend to an off broadway play 15 years ago.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:26
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It won't even be that. It'll be "Yet Hunter Biden receives millions of dollars from Burisma and China which he funnels back to Joe, and the Dems won't even investigate!"
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Apr 7, 2023 01:45
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if thats the case then let the IRS and their new peeps do their job??
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Apr 7, 2023 01:48
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BiggerBoat posted:One weird little thing that seems to give them pause is asking them why male seahorses carry the babies. A lot of them don't even know that. Or that a jellyfish, one of the oldest species on the planet, can be hermaphordites? There are any number of examples of things like homosexuality and sex not being static in the animal kingdoms. You've got things like certain amphibians and fish who can switch between "male" and "female" reproductive strategies https://www.bbcearth.com/news/fish-are-the-sex-switching-masters-of-the-animal-kingdom or the parthenogenic reptiles who have only one sex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis_in_squamata. While with humans having the odd chromosome (Y) means you're male, in birds the male is the one with two copies (ZZ) while females have the odd chromosome (ZW). In livestock species (and not simply because of crowded factory farm conditions), particularly sheep, homosexuality concerning the ram is a known quantity and something to watch for when producers turn a ram (or rams) out into large ewe herds https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3085551/. Heck, rams can demonstrate heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, or even be asexual.
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Apr 7, 2023 05:36
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Epic High Five posted:Not just no Federal funding, illegal. Balding treatments and testosterone mills too, every client straight to jail! Being bald and impotent is part of God's plan for your aging, the state shall come down harshly on any attempts to subvert His will. I wish to amend my previous proposal...
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Apr 7, 2023 05:56
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HelloSailorSign posted:There are any number of examples of things like homosexuality and sex not being static in the animal kingdoms. I am trans and an author on genomics papers where chromosomes and genetics are studied in depth. None of this poo poo matters. Transphobes don't care about anyone but humans, but that's actually a very lucky thing. Everything you need to disprove binary gender in humans can come from genomics studies of humans. For example, of the chromosomes that humans pass, a sex-specific chromosome (Y) is missing for most AFAB people. Most AFAB people have a duplicate chromosome (X), one of which is deactivated to guard against complications. The chromosome that is not shared (Y) is extremely small and does not encode much of anything noteworthy or that we would associate with gender expression. The vast vast vast majority of everything genetic is shared between AFAB and AMAB as an evolutionary hack for making sure all that poo poo loving works reliably. Sexual secondary characteristics in humans are mediated almost entirely by hormones. We know this because the difference between AMAB and AFAB children is insigificant until puberty other than certain configurations of things you wouldn't be able to see unless they were naked or x-rayed. We also know this because when you give testosterone to XX people and blockers/HRT to XY people you get a second puberty where people develop "opposite" sexual secondary characteristics complete with phat tits and phat asses and beards and poo poo. It's awesome. As well, none of these treatments are transgender-specific. Every medical intervention done by a trans person is also something a cisgender or cisgender intersex person has done to them or seeks out in order to address the dysphoria of not matching their birth gender. The vast majority of kids on puberty blockers are cis. It isn't new. All of this poo poo is loving stupid. You don't have to go past humans or the medical science literature to demonstrate it. The poo poo from transphobes is gender phrenology. You weaken you argument reaching further than you need to debunk it. ErIog fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 06:02
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ErIog posted:And even this is a stretch. It seems mostly like trans bullshit is a socially acceptable way to voice general anti-queer animus. They know it makes them look bigoted to be anti-gay so they want to avoid it. They do the same thing on racism. And it's following the same patterns where powerful liberals and Democrats also traffic in it for way longer than the actual mainstream of the country before someone beats them over the head with the fact that it's just bigotry and none of the arguments are well-founded. Yeah, fundamentally all of this is just bigots wanting to be nasty towards people. We had a prime example of that just a few days ago: Somebody posted a photo of Daniel Radcliffe and his (cis and also pregnant) girlfriend Erin Drake, it was a little unflattering, and suddenly you had hundreds of people gleefully calling her an ugly man for no other reason than because they thought they had an excuse to:  It's not about women's rights, it's not about "biology", it's lovely small people wanting an excuse to be gross towards those they deem inferior, and they'll seize on any pretext they can whether it makes sense or not.
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Apr 7, 2023 07:50
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ErIog posted:I am trans and an author on genomics papers where chromosomes and genetics are studied in depth. None of this poo poo matters. https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1640999799376826368?t=S4yIoC5vR7LfNliJVpJYDw&s=19 Zuby here argued "the West" is obsessed with trans people and whenever it is pointed out that it is conservatives ranting and signal boosting this all over the internet, they'll dismiss it by arguing that they're just afraid something that's already out there. After all, it's not conservatives plastering transness all over beer cans, candy bars, movies, TV, news, sports, etc! A few people in replies correctly point out that the right wing bias in major social media such as Twitter gives transphobic content disproportionate reach. When I talk to most people in grass touching world about these topics, they are ambivalent at best but largely baffled why conservatives on the internet are making it such a huge thing.
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Apr 7, 2023 11:50
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I love how it's always made out to be the "decadent West" or something when many cultures from all over the world have recognized some forms of trans identity for hundreds or thousands of years.
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Apr 7, 2023 13:13
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PT6A posted:I love how it's always made out to be the "decadent West" or something when many cultures from all over the world have recognized some forms of trans identity for hundreds or thousands of years. Yeah but according to Zuby they don't talk about it constantly or rub it in your face or trans up your kids in public school so it's different somehow 
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Apr 7, 2023 13:17
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ErIog posted:I am trans and an author on genomics papers where chromosomes and genetics are studied in depth. None of this poo poo matters. I feel like this is really on the nose, albeit from my cis perspective. I've seen a lot of Facebook comments sections on news stories about the swimmer Katie Ledecky, and half of the people are whining about how she stole victory from real women. As far as I can tell, Ledecky is cisgender. Transphobic people spend a lot of time publicly obsessing over shoulder width, jawlines, Adams apples, hand sizes and the like. Not chromosomes, just normal variations in human physiology.
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Apr 7, 2023 18:44
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Piell posted:Lol the author of that has two separate articles about how US Olympic athletics aren't fuckable enough and how it proves that America has fallen Look, I know it's not a beauty contest, but the members of Team USA should be fuckable by my standards or America is doomed
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Apr 7, 2023 18:50
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Speaking of swimmers, Riley Gaines spoke at SFSU and it went about as well as you'd expect: https://twitter.com/SarahisCensored/status/1644342701746184192?t=skv49x25V2z-FOO1sfKECg&s=19
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Apr 7, 2023 18:55
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Professor Beetus posted:Look, I know it's not a beauty contest, but the members of Team USA should be fuckable by my standards or America is doomed I agree but my clothing fetishes will put them at a competitive disadvantage
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Apr 7, 2023 22:30
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Dr. Gargunza posted:Somewhere in paragraph...2? 3? of that garble, I became convinced that "Lenny" is a Scott Adams sockpuppet. No idea why. Surely dilbertman's ego wouldn't let him use any other name but his own, and there wasn't a single reference to his mastery of hypnotism in there. (...I think. I kind of blacked out at one point. ) Ask famous metafilter and reddit user plannedchaos.
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Apr 7, 2023 22:56
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I love how all these fuckfaces are always on about the crime ridden hellscapes of NYC, SF and Chicago, as if spending a vacation in Jacksonville FL, Oklahoma CIty, Memphis, Nashville, Bakersfield, Tulsa, Fresno or anywhere in Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Kansas or the Dakotas offers anything. My former in laws were MAGA CHUDS who had Drudge as their home page and mainlined FOX NEws every day. They traveled a lot and always went to France, SF, NYC, DC, Greece, New Orleans and every other deep blue place in a deep blue on the map that they could find to spend money in. I used to ask them why they didn't visit the comfy confines of Omaha, Lexington, Fort Worth, Fresno, Salt Lake City or Anchorage where they'd feel more at home instead of subjecting themselves and their wallets to all these liberal hell holes. I've been in and around a lot of towns and cities in heavily red states and they loving suck. THey're as shady and depressing as anything you can find in places or big cities where people actually want to BE. There's NO loving culture at all (unless shooting things, drinking and selling oxy/meth count) and the people there are as mean and rude as they come. Lots of churches concentrated in the poorer areas for some reason (I'm thinking of SOuth Carolina and rural Georgia) I doubt that Sean Hannity owns a summer home in Mississippi or West Memphis so he can be surrounded by "real americans" in his down time. Fake edit: Speaking of Matt Drudge, what the gently caress ever happened to that dude? Or Michael Moore for that matter, just to be fair and balanced about it? I also need to do an effort post write up on Mark Kaye soon holy poo poo does he suck. He's set himself apart a little bit for me because he attempts comedy and, it's been said before, nothing is worse than hardcore conservatives trying to be loving funny. It's new levels of awful in talk radio, aided and abetted by the idiotic callers that try to contribute to the "comedy". THey do regular "bits" and quasi gameshow poo poo that you almost have to hear to believe. It's SO loving bad. I'll get into it when I have time.
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Apr 7, 2023 22:57
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Mobile Alabama... isn't the worst, I guess? and obvs I'm a Houston and San Antonio liker but I see you left Texas off because we have some real cities, and dallas
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Apr 7, 2023 23:01
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Google Jeb Bush posted:Mobile Alabama... isn't the worst, I guess? and obvs I'm a Houston and San Antonio liker but I see you left Texas off because we have some real cities, and dallas
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Apr 7, 2023 23:06
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Panfilo posted:Speaking of swimmers, Riley Gaines spoke at SFSU and it went about as well as you'd expect: the threatening aggressiveness of those effeminate beta males
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Apr 7, 2023 23:26
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:the threatening aggressiveness of those effeminate beta males Something something rhetorical focus
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Apr 8, 2023 00:00
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I feel like this is really on the nose, albeit from my cis perspective. Erlog's use of phrenology is absolutely on point. I remember semi-recently that some transphone or another decided to try to dunk on a woman's group for updating their logo to include a profile that she deemed insufficiently "feminine"... only for someone to point out that her profile was very similar to the "masculine" profile she was complaining about. You would've thought there was chum in the water for how fast all her former "friends" jumped to start misgendering the person, talking about how it's a conspiracy, etc. And that's not even to dismiss the people who are absolutely certain every celebrity and public figure has been "transed"
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Apr 8, 2023 00:02
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BiggerBoat posted:I love how all these fuckfaces are always on about the crime ridden hellscapes of NYC, SF and Chicago, as if spending a vacation in Jacksonville FL, Oklahoma CIty, Memphis, Nashville, Bakersfield, Tulsa, Fresno or anywhere in Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Kansas or the Dakotas offers anything. I've lived in Oklahoma my entire life and it's a blighted suburban hellscape filled with meth heads and karens and 40-80 year old frat bros and good ol boys. There's cool poo poo here but its easily less than 1% of the city. The poorer areas are the only places with actual community and getting outside of the cities you get nothing but hills that either have wheat farms or developing suburbs. It's not great. Whenever I go out in public I'm guaranteed to see multiple moms with meth teeth. You can practically hear the fox news blarring out of every home.
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Apr 8, 2023 00:05
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FunkyFjord posted:I've lived in Oklahoma my entire life and it's a blighted suburban hellscape filled with meth heads and karens and 40-80 year old frat bros and good ol boys. There's cool poo poo here but its easily less than 1% of the city. The poorer areas are the only places with actual community and getting outside of the cities you get nothing but hills that either have wheat farms or developing suburbs. It's not great. Whenever I go out in public I'm guaranteed to see multiple moms with meth teeth. You can practically hear the fox news blarring out of every home. "Oh no, NYC gives healthcare to trans people!!" *meanwhile everyone in Tulsa is on meth
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Apr 8, 2023 00:07
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One of the big transformations in US society over the course of my lifetime has been the way cities and rural areas have switched places. In the 80s and 90s, cities were crime-ridden, dangerous, corrupt, in economic and population decline, awash in drugs, violent, and full of degeneracy, while rural areas were bastions of family values and honest living. Nowadays, it's the opposite - rural areas are impoverished, backwards, drugged out, corrupt, crime-ridden, and dangerous, while cities are bursting at the seams for all the people moving to them.
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Apr 8, 2023 00:25
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Also, "The Great Free State of FLorida"* is rapidly becoming one of the most expensive places to live in the United States despite having not state income tax and constant anecdotes about people fleeing NYC and Philly to come live here. That second part is actually true, from what I can ascertain, and I'm from up that way myself, but every transplant I speak to is astonished at the lack of any decent paying jobs, the cost of housing and (of they own a home) the skyrocketing costs of home/flood insurance, rather high property taxes and abysmal healthcare options. If you can make more than 20 bucks an hour in this state, you're ahead of the curve. The median income stats are juiced by rich retirees moving here and living in gated golf communities, not by anything resembling a competitive labor market here in an At WIll Employment "free" state. * Sean Hannity - daily
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Apr 8, 2023 00:32
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It's cool how Adams is a blood-gargling pro-cop psycho who's actively defunding everything else to throw money at them, but black people still exist, so right wing media hates him. A couple weeks ago I had the misfortune of hearing a Gutfeld! rant about how he was proven right about everything, from Hunter Biden's laptop to the lab leak theory to police defunding, and they were crowing about some San Francisco politician being robbed and how we shouldn't except her apology. Remind me, did San Francisco even do anything to curb the police?
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Apr 8, 2023 00:33
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Dr Christmas posted:It's cool how Adams is a blood-gargling pro-cop psycho who's actively defunding everything else to throw money at them, but black people still exist, so right wing media hates him.
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Apr 8, 2023 00:47
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All I know is this house I'm living in right now, in a rural area (there's a cow pasture right beside my driveway, like thirty feet from the house!) had a bullet fired into it a few years back (right above the couch) because a couple of dumbass kids were playing with a gun nearby. The other day I also heard gunfire going off extremely close to my house. I've honestly felt much more unsafe in this rural area than I ever have working in downtown Raleigh.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:33
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:the threatening aggressiveness of those effeminate beta males It's almost charming how chuds are like  "Why won't anyone do anything?!" in response to these videos. It's very similar to the veiled and hollow threats against the protestors "Let's see them try that in my neck of the woods" "Oh, if I were there I'd set em straight".Not sure about the exact context of the protest at SFSU, only that a college swimmer was giving a speech about how Lia Thomas had the audacity to compete in swimming. I think this is also the swimmer who claimed Lia popped a boner in the changing room and was leering at the other swimmers. Apparently when you are a middling college swimmer the chud circuit is your only recourse?
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Apr 8, 2023 02:50
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BiggerBoat posted:Matt Drudge, what the gently caress ever happened to that dude? Stories about him pop up rarely, sometimes mentioning he lives in seclusion somewhere in Florida. He may have one or two staffers these days. I thought he did an interview during either American Crime Story or for an anniversary of the Lewinsky scandal, but a quick google search has him being chided for not falling in lock step for Trump.
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Apr 8, 2023 14:32
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