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Gavok posted:Once Speaking Out happened, the first major Chikara name on the list was Kobald for being an abuser. Former talent Blaster McMassive was called out for being a bit of a creep. While it was rare for anyone to name names, trainers were called out for being scumbags and it was made apparent that Quack knew their behavior and turned a blind eye. While some Chikara people claimed Quack did nothing wrong to them, they agreed with the accusations against certain trainers. Suddenly, a shitload of Chikara names were announcing that they were leaving the company, including champion Dasher Hatfield. The company was already in rough shape due to covid, but there was no coming back from this. It seemed like Kobald went 0 to 90 in 'he's just being a heel' to 'no wait he's a horrible person for real.' Gavok posted:The passage of time pretty much spelled out the guilty parties in terms of the trainers. Icarus completely vanished from wrestling without a trace. Nothing was outright said about Ophidian at the time and he announced his retirement in the sea of Chikara's massive exodus. When he returned to wrestling a couple years later, various Chikara alumni raised a stink on social media about him being booked because he was one of the offenders. According to Joe "Leonard F. Chikarason" Sposto on his podcast a while back Icarus is currently working at a very mundane job and is happy blah blah blah but I was sitting there listening and thinking weren't there also allegations against Icarus? I get he's your friend and all but... were the allegations against him recanted and I missed it? El Gallinero Gros posted:I'm just glad Chuck and UMB were never implicated. Those dudes are really awesome talent and seem like self awareness good folk. UMB does LVAC, right?
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Apr 6, 2023 16:16
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Yeah, and his band just released a new EP in March
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Apr 6, 2023 17:36
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They did? That's dope, I need to look it up
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Apr 6, 2023 20:08
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Does Rey Mysterio sing on his WWE theme?
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Apr 6, 2023 23:20
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Does Rey Mysterio sing on his WWE theme? Far as I know the theme songs still sung by 90s legends P.O.D.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:32
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Yeah, and his band just released a new EP in March Does Mantis still wrestle too?
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Apr 7, 2023 04:41
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Dawgstar posted:Does Mantis still wrestle too? Occasionally. Last match was on the LVAC show in December. Largely works for his own promotion or against people he likes in local promotions. He wrestled Doug Gilbert (in character as Nightmare Freddy) for AIW in July.
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Apr 7, 2023 06:07
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What was up with that brief period in the earlyish 2000's when wwf tried to make a bunch of throwback character heavy gimmicks work at the same time? Like Kizarny, Deuce/Domino, Paul Burchill, Simon Dean, Boogeyman, The Dicks,etc,etc
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Apr 7, 2023 20:50
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That seems like a kind of holding pattern they enter when they don't know what to do.
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Apr 7, 2023 21:07
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According to Nick Dinsmore, Vince just wanted to go back to big character wrestling so that's what they did because Vince has terrible taste
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Apr 7, 2023 22:34
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In Paul Burchill's case, I remember hearing that Vince had JUST gotten wind of Pirates of the Caribbean films after the 3rd one had come out and the franchise had already lost steam.
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Apr 7, 2023 22:49
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Kizarny's run (as it was) was so weird. He debuts, beats MVP, is soundly booed since this was when MVP was on his losing streak gimmick and the crowd *really* wanted him to win by now. Next outing is a battle royal, he's thrown out and never seen again
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Apr 7, 2023 22:52
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Bonk posted:In Paul Burchill's case, I remember hearing that Vince had JUST gotten wind of Pirates of the Caribbean films after the 3rd one had come out and the franchise had already lost steam. Wasn't Vince really baffled by Burchill's gimmick? As in could literally not wrap his around 'a wrestler who thinks he's a pirate?'
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Apr 7, 2023 23:01
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Dawgstar posted:Wasn't Vince really baffled by Burchill's gimmick? As in could literally not wrap his around 'a wrestler who thinks he's a pirate?' The legend I believe is Vince being terminally behind the times and thought Burchill should have been a more stereotypical pirate instead of a Johnny Depp expy.
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Apr 7, 2023 23:23
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According to Burchill and I believe pretty much anyone else who was backstage at the time and has since started doing podcasts, Vince McMahon came up with the pirate gimmick and specifically wanted it to be a pirate "like from Pirates of the Caribbean" and encouraged Burchill to really Jack Sparrow it up. The pirate gimmick ran from February to June 2006, which was 2 1/2 years after the first movie, but not long before the second movie came out in July 2006. I have not seen the second movie, and I hear it is not very good, but it was highly anticipated and wildly commercially successful. It was the third movie (after Titanic and Return of the King) to do over a billion dollars in worldwide box office, so I don't know that the franchise had lost any steam yet. On that note, we're kind of painting "the 2000s" with a broad brush of all of those throwback gimmicks happening all at once, the ones listed all came and went in about a five year period without a TON of overlap Simon Dean: August 2004 to May 2006 The Boogeyman: July 2005 to March 2009 The Dicks: October 2005 to February 2006 Pirate Paul Burchill: February 2006 to June 2006 Deuce & Domino: January 2007 to June 2008 Kizarny: October 2008 to February 2009 I also think that all of those gimmicks (aside from Pirate Paul) were developed in OVW, or possibly earlier in the case of Kizarny
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Apr 8, 2023 01:00
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They definitely fit a certain era of, I believe Cornette booking OVW. Like The Prototype, and Leviathan. I suppose you can lump stuff like D-von Dudley becoming a preacher and Cena becoming a rapper in with that trend. Plus stuff like Eugene and maybe even the period where Tommy Dreamer was basically doing Jackass gross-out bits?
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Apr 8, 2023 01:18
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Gaz-L posted:They definitely fit a certain era of, I believe Cornette booking OVW. Like The Prototype, and Leviathan. Yea there where more. I just named a few more obvious ones. Kevin Thorn vampire, super hero hurricane, molly, and rosey, white guy kerwin white[chavo] theres probably a ton more where their gimmick is basically summed up by "you are a/an blank"
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Apr 8, 2023 02:04
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:According to Nick Dinsmore, Vince just wanted to go back to big character wrestling so that's what they did because Vince has terrible taste I can sort of see the logic because a) the Attitude Era had clearly run its course and b) you can’t beat MMA for “realism” so may as well lean into the stagecraft, but obviously that didn’t work.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:43
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Defenestrategy posted:Yea there where more. I just named a few more obvious ones. Kevin Thorn vampire, super hero hurricane, molly, and rosey, white guy kerwin white[chavo] theres probably a ton more where their gimmick is basically summed up by "you are a/an blank" Wasn't Vampire Kevin Thorn when WWECW debuted and they wanted more spooky gimmicks to fit the Syfy demographic?
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Apr 8, 2023 05:23
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Bonk posted:Wasn't Vampire Kevin Thorn when WWECW debuted and they wanted more spooky gimmicks to fit the Syfy demographic? Kevin Thorn was is in the Syfy ECW yes, and considering that they apparently demanded the Zombie too, I can see how this is a likelihood. Also a reminder that Kevin Thorn was also Mordecai, the very white guy (in the literal sense) that was apparently meant to feud with Undertaker down the line or something?
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Apr 8, 2023 06:05
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he debuted as Mordecai in 2004 in vignettes that led up to him squashing Scotty 2 Hotty on the Judgment Day ppv, worked a bunch of house shows until the next ppv Great American Bash where he beat Bob Holly in a bad 6 and a half minute match and then lost to Rey Mysterio on Smackdown two days later and vanished before coming back as Kevin Thorn the ECW Vampire in 2006 Mordecai isn't even the funniest "spooky guy who's only being introduced so the Undertaker has someone to kill at Wrestlemania" guy, that's Hade Vanson who had a single vignette before Vince met him and decided he was too short and british to be a convincing threat against the Undertaker so he fired him Alaois fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 06:15
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Vade Hansen
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Apr 8, 2023 11:30
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Vade Vansen
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Apr 8, 2023 11:46
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FCW graduate Han Vadesen
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Apr 8, 2023 11:49
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Van Vader
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Apr 8, 2023 14:59
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Sandman McMahon posted:Van Vader ...wait
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Apr 8, 2023 15:26
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Hal Henis
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Apr 8, 2023 17:24
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I had a random "what if" thought this morning while out on walk. What if Bischoff never gets power in WCW and therefore Hogan doesn't get signed. Where does Hogan go then? Can he even come back to WWF? Would Vince want him back? Does he just go to Japan for a while then? Or maybe he decides to fully invest in breaking into hollywood.
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Apr 9, 2023 08:25
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12 year old Tony Khan founds All Hulkster Wrestling
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Apr 9, 2023 08:33
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Where do people rank Nakamura in relation to the other god-tier wrestlers of modern New Japan like Okada and Tanahashi? He was long gone by the time I started paying attention so I only really know him from the History of CHAOS recap on YouTube and the odd WWE clip.
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Apr 9, 2023 08:55
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Answers Me posted:Where do people rank Nakamura in relation to the other god-tier wrestlers of modern New Japan like Okada and Tanahashi? He was long gone by the time I started paying attention so I only really know him from the History of CHAOS recap on YouTube and the odd WWE clip. He was fantastic when he put in the effort, but he was far more noticable than Tana or Okada when he didn't give a poo poo about the opponent/match, someone like Minoru Suzuki or Sanada today. I'd put him on a lower tier than Okada and Tanahashi if only because they are up there with the Four Pillars for all time greats. Feels like a lifetime ago he worked in a company I follow, everything pre-pandemic may as well have been decades ago
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Apr 9, 2023 09:45
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When Nakamura was at his best I honestly think the only person who could possibly touch him was Okada, his charisma was so far off the charts it went back to zero and then still lapped everybody else on the track.
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Apr 9, 2023 09:53
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Answers Me posted:Where do people rank Nakamura in relation to the other god-tier wrestlers of modern New Japan like Okada and Tanahashi? He was long gone by the time I started paying attention so I only really know him from the History of CHAOS recap on YouTube and the odd WWE clip. Nakamura got a good match out of Bad Luck Fale somehow so yeah he's one of the GOAT. For me personally it's Tana > Naito > Nak > Okada but they're all all-timers
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Apr 9, 2023 09:56
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It should also be said that Nakamura is the main reason the IWGP Intercontinental belt was seen on par with the Heavyweight belt and often headlined shows above it.
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Apr 9, 2023 19:36
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Nakamura probably a step behind Tana or Okada cause it took him too long to actually get in ring charisma and add it to his act (partly cause his first push came at the height of inokism but even during most of Yuke's New Japan he still was lacking until CHAOS was formed) and that his really good matches aren't as diverse as Tana or Okada's are. He's probably on the whole at the Naito level which is still a really good level and if he ever decides to leave WWE I'd be interested to see if he could have a late New Japan/NOAH/AEW run that could add more to that legacy but it's obviously not gonna happen in WWE
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Apr 9, 2023 19:48
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Nakamura was the sweetheart of the wrestling world for a while there in 2015 and i could be wrong but it feels like that is almost a forgotten aspect of the NJPW ascent now? The WK9 match vs Ibushi was so huge at the time. The buzz around NJPW had been quietly building through the record-breaking Tanahashi 2011-2012 title run and things really picked up steam once they did the shock title change to Okada. That was when Meltzer started actively and regularly stanning for NJPW in the newsletter (Tana / Okada 1 & 2, Okada / Naito, Tana / Suzuki, all getting gushing "you just have to see this match" write-ups in 2012). This undoubtedly did cause more Western viewers to sit up and take notice throughout 2013 and 2014 (plus myriad other factors in NJPW's awesomeness in this period) but my impression is that WK9 was really the crest of that slow-building wave of enthusiasm. More so than any other individual NJPW event I can remember that was the one where semi-interested wrestling fans who were aware of the buzz decided that gently caress it, they'd never watched Japanese wrestling before but they would take a punt on NJPW. my memory of that show is of many, many first time viewers coming away afterwards having enjoyed the entire show and connected with loads of guys on the roster, but very very specifically the overwhelming response was "omg where has this Nakamura guy been all my life?!" whatever the personal reasons which led him to be more receptive to an approach from WWE in 2015/16 than say, Okada, who I recall WWE also being rumoured to be into at the time, there was a reason that Nakamura was able to cross the bridge so comfortably into that Sami Zayn NXT match etc. Even Western wrestling fans that weren't particularly invested in NJPW were crazy for Nak. tl;dr NJPW had been gaining popularity in the West since 2012 but it jumped another level around the time of WK9 and Nakamura was absolutely crucial to that, he was the buzziest wrestler in the world for a while there, which led directly to WWE picking him up
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Apr 9, 2023 21:55
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An under-rated part of that whole story, despite how janky it was, was Jeff Jarrett getting a deal to have WK9 on PPV one what would become Fite with JR and Matt Striker there live calling the show in English. (The show kicking rear end helped, although it was the start of JR being grumpy about tags and especially about undercard NJPW guys that carried forward to when he was doing commentary for New Japan shows regularly but never saw most of the lower card except on US cards and had no clue who they were)
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Apr 10, 2023 00:12
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Nakamura/Ibushi WK9 is still in my top 10 all-time fav matches. Also the first glimpse of Ibushi going into "you've pissed me off, and now I'm going to no-sell and become very very scary" mode, I think, which would basically become his gimmick in the latter part of the 2010s (unless I'm mistaken, and he did it before?)
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Apr 10, 2023 00:47
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NJPW was also offering iPPV in 2012 via uStream. That did help tremendously in getting more eyes to the product.
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Apr 10, 2023 13:36
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Man, the UStream days... it helped get me into New Japan but I am so glad those days are behind us.
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Apr 10, 2023 14:06
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