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commando in tophat posted:I sort of wish they would just add demolition and building maintenance to construction offices and increase the number of vehicles it can house. I already have 5 of them to get anything done in realistic just a few years in. And maybe more vehicles for distribution as well, because now I need 2 small and medium (there is no large?) to supply food for 6k town, which is bit ridiculous (I use small with big trucks to fill warehouse at the edge of town and rest with smaller trucks to get to shops. I'm not sure if there is better way to do it. Without warehouse everyone was starving all the time) That's quite weird because I supplied my 20k city with a single medium DO quite easily, using the same method of shipping with big wagons to a local warehouse in the city and having the DO right next to it hooked up to the shops and hotels and orphanages etc.
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Apr 4, 2023 21:16
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| # ? May 30, 2024 14:20 |
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a question to those building huge refineries: are the huge (and many) liquid containers just for aesthetics or do you genuinely use those for production and export? bc I've never gotten a refinery to produce at such a rate to need 26000 tonnes of storage
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Apr 7, 2023 19:50
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double nine posted:a question to those building huge refineries: are the huge (and many) liquid containers just for aesthetics or do you genuinely use those for production and export? They are appropriate for shore refineries, because you can then store a big surplus of oil for refining between tanker trips, or build up a big enough stockpile to fill a tanker quickly. Like most storage, you add them to spread out production between infrequent shipments, and literal ship-ments are massive and can be very infrequent.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:06
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double nine posted:a question to those building huge refineries: are the huge (and many) liquid containers just for aesthetics or do you genuinely use those for production and export? My current refinery (running at about 90% staffing) has a 13.5k tank for each product and 27k for import, and it wasn't enough to prevent a jam from my own short sightedness. So... they get used, I guess?
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Apr 7, 2023 20:08
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For clarity incase it isn't obvious, you should generally import oil for your refinery. You can use domestic production as well but you would need a gigantic oil field to actually run a refinery, so the best way to do it is to use domestic oil but also import a bunch on the return trip when you export your products, because you want to use the full capacity of the refinery if possible.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:11
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OwlFancier posted:For clarity incase it isn't obvious, you should generally import oil for your refinery. You can use domestic production as well but you would need a gigantic oil field to actually run a refinery, so the best way to do it is to use domestic oil but also import a bunch on the return trip when you export your products, because you want to use the full capacity of the refinery if possible. I take offense at the idea that you “should” because what you should do is work toward autarky, but it does take an absolute shitload of oil wells to keep a refinery topped off at a high productivity. If you do the math you’ll have dozens of wells, and sometimes that requires multiple fields across your map depending on available resources.
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Apr 7, 2023 20:55
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Ideally sure you would tap out your oil fields, but I think on most of the maps I play that would be basically the oil capacity of the whole map. So in practice you're building a refinery that you can not possibly hope to utilize the full capacity of, and you're already running trains or ships to the map edge with oil bearing capbility for exports, so realistically you should tell them to buy oil on the return trip. I would argue honestly that you should do this even if you are capable of running a refinery on domestic production because those vehicles still represent underutilized productive capacity, and should be conceptualized as being part of the potential oil input capacity. Maximising domestic resource extraction and processing and maximising efficiency in your transport systems are both desirable goals, you can achieve both autarky and market competitiveness at the same time, that's called dialectical synthesis, sweaty. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 23:28
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OwlFancier posted:Maximising domestic resource extraction and processing and maximising efficiency in your transport systems are both desirable goals, you can achieve both autarky and market competitiveness at the same time, that's called dialectical synthesis, sweaty. Market competitiveness? This sure sounds like capitalism, ASAgrad is formally closing relations with OwlFancierstan. At least on my current map, the oil field near to the border is large enough to support a pretty highly productive refinery and the trains or ships don’t go too far empty - not that it’s really the distance that’s the problem. They tried to balance this by making it relatively low purity, excepting some hot spots, and spreading it over a large area that’s got some shallow water, requiring some terraforming. Unfortunately with the way the game is, this isn’t much of a challenge so it’s just easy to build dozens of pump jacks with a few bulldozers. I even took the time to dress it up just to make myself feel better about the ease of exploiting it. In my ideal W&R there’d be some kind of mechanic for “earth” as a resource alongside terraforming. Just stores of dirt that I can use or refill depending on what terraforming I’m doing. This probably isn’t interesting to most people, but when I build I do actually try really hard not to overuse either fill or dig. It makes things look a little more natural if the map is well made. The other thing I’d love personally, but I know isn’t really the point of the game, is Skylines’s water mechanics. If I block rivers and things it should create problems. I would *love* reasons to build breakwaters, route rivers, etc. This could pair very neatly with the ground water and pollution mechanics, not to mention potentially irrigation. It would get crazy complex, but I’m just such a sucker for hydro mechanics.
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Apr 8, 2023 00:48
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Hydro mechanics would be sick yeah. I dunno if I would make earth a resource, although you could. I think the big thing for me would be making terraforming actually take time? Like you can use the tools as currently, but then the bulldozers actually have to go and do the earthmoving (or you pay cash and it does it magically) You'd need a preview/actual land split but it should be easy enough to portray to the player I think, would just obviously be some work to implement. You could combine it with earth as a resource I guess, I live near a big steelworks and one of the things they did was use the massive amounts of slag that it produced, to build big concrete piers out into the sea to stabilize and expand the river mouth to make shipping into the port easier. That could be another thing too if you didn't go full skylines, having a conception of "water turbulence" which encourages building bays and piers to calm the water in ports, might be relatively easy to calculate a simple turbulence map based off ray casting to nearby landforms. Would also like more ways to terraform, it'd be nice if we could build retaining walls and stuff to make sharper elevation changes, maybe walled canals too that have a fixed width and you can draw them out like a road, and which shipping would treat like a road, with a lane in each direction. Could maybe even add lock systems too if you did that and use it as a kind of bulk transport system for more inland areas. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 00:54
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Hell, I would just take a drat square brush instead of a circle. Love all of your other ideas, and again, I doubt we’ll see them because they do get into the weeds (imo) for what the game wants to be maybe, but I’d still love it. One thing that’s funny, thinking about canals: ships already do a pretty decent job of pathing around breakwaters and small channels I’ve made. I feel like maybe we could get a small dlc that’s just a little tool that builds something like the mod embankments more fluidly and get workable canals without really adding much of complicated mechanics around them. Whether or not people find them useful, eh. I would.
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Apr 8, 2023 01:06
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Oh sure they could probably handle regular channels dug with terraforming just fine, mostly I think i just wish that you could help them look a bit tidier. I guess ideally I would like to be able to drag out "shipping lanes" using the road tool that work like in cities skylines where the ships smoothly follow them using the road logic. Would need something to let them figure out joining/leaving the "shipping lane network" such as it is but it would make boats just look a bit nicer. I think if I had to pick one thing I would like it would be ways to use the existing spline pathing and drawing tools to make more terrain features, which is how I'd like retaining walls and cuts to work. Would help a lot with making mountainside roads and railways etc which currently look pretty garbage, and I always want more dumb engineering projects to throw production at. With the addition of maintnence I also think it would be fun to add more underground buildings, underground warehousing with rail connections, underground housing which has terrible quality but lets you cram people in if you need to  and make it all cost shitloads to maintain. More big dumb poo poo for me to build at all times please.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 01:10
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Anime Store Adventure posted:One thing that’s funny, thinking about canals: ships already do a pretty decent job of pathing around breakwaters and small channels I’ve made. I feel like maybe we could get a small dlc that’s just a little tool that builds something like the mod embankments more fluidly and get workable canals without really adding much of complicated mechanics around them. Whether or not people find them useful, eh. I would. This and retaining walls for sharper elevation changes would be fantastic. OwlFancier posted:With the addition of maintnence I also think it would be fun to add more underground buildings, underground warehousing with rail connections, underground housing which has terrible quality but lets you cram people in if you need to I want arcologies. I'm not even kidding, I want a future DLC with bigass "capstone" projects that give super dense high quality housing or automatically fulfill some needs or other things that would feel game-breaking if not for the fact that they require concrete and steel by the tens of thousands of tons or whatever. Mods almost do this, but half of them add pollution to their massive skyscrapers to "balance" them which is extremely stupid. Log082 fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 02:28
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Market competitiveness? This sure sounds like capitalism, ASAgrad is formally closing relations with OwlFancierstan. Please do not speak this evil into existence tia That said, I'm actually enjoying Captain of Industry necessitating this. I'm busy digging a huge ("huge") canal towards the center of my island so that I can use sea water intakes closer to the places that need water, and just to look neat in general. double nine posted:a question to those building huge refineries: are the huge (and many) liquid containers just for aesthetics or do you genuinely use those for production and export? There's a mod for a mini liquids tank in the workshop, I use it without any shame because honestly W&R really shouldn't need to have one massive, steel hungry size for tanks that will not be filled with very much liquid.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:48
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Log082 posted:This and retaining walls for sharper elevation changes would be fantastic. Oh yeah absolutely, I've said before I wish they would lean into the alt history possibilities and let you build a bunch of stupid projects that are woefully inefficient but cool. The addition of maintenence requirements would be a good way to balance the stupid stunt buildings and make them something to work towards.
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Apr 8, 2023 03:50
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Re: all of my hydrology ones. Give me an Aral Sea dlc. It isn’t even “alt” history.
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Apr 8, 2023 05:19
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Is the objective to gently caress it up or fix it?
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Apr 8, 2023 05:37
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OwlFancier posted:Is the objective to gently caress it up or fix it? Yes, correct.
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Apr 8, 2023 05:38
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Re: all of my hydrology ones. Give me an Aral Sea dlc. It isn’t even “alt” history. Is the goal to dig a canal to the Caspian and suck that dry too?
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Apr 8, 2023 23:50
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Is there any way to "upgrade" panel road to asphalt? For some reason (I guess some misguided realism) game doesn't allow me to do this. And I don't feel like bulldozing old road only to try and draw exact same one with intersections, footpaths etc.
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Apr 9, 2023 21:48
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alright time to start playing again, haven't played in awhile. Do you still want to build a whole basic resources setup near the border for imports?
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Apr 10, 2023 00:49
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commando in tophat posted:Is there any way to "upgrade" panel road to asphalt? For some reason (I guess some misguided realism) game doesn't allow me to do this. And I don't feel like bulldozing old road only to try and draw exact same one with intersections, footpaths etc. I don’t think there is sadly. I don’t find much purpose for panel roads outside of the exclusive tram ones and random “roleplay” where it looks good.
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Apr 10, 2023 03:37
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I don’t think there is sadly. I don’t find much purpose for panel roads outside of the exclusive tram ones and random “roleplay” where it looks good. Uh, that sucks, because I was building everything gravel and then upgrading almost any road of importance to panels once panel factory was up, since that is basically free
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Apr 10, 2023 11:58
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Yeah, I didn't really get the point of panel roads. I don't recall if the delivery trucks can just drop everything off ahead of time, in which case, yeah, better than having a bunch of dumpers hanging around while still faster than gravel, but not great. If asphalt roads ends up being something you have to research I'm going to be very upset.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:36
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Panel roads are 75% flavor, 20% you have some map arm pit that is illogically far from bitumen but next to prefab, 5% you've gone down some weird map, date mod, or other conduct that makes bitumen and or asphalt laying equipment beyond your reach but prefabs flowing like water.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:48
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Yeah the point of panel roads is that if you have prefab panel manufacturing set up they're basically a free upgrade from gravel and good enough for routes that only see truck traffic that doesn't get up to full asphalt speed anyway.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:57
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I'm very curious to see how they play into the maintenance update. I don't like the idea of road maintenance until a crew working on them means "dirt and automatic toggling one-way" rather than "can't get there from here", but panels would have more of a niche as a less frequent/bigger when it does happen maintenance option.
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Apr 11, 2023 01:26
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Oh gently caress that, if turning on maintenance means road maintenance as well I'm just going to leave it off altogether. It's bad enough trying to work around the frustrating aspects in laying them out and building, having to janitor additional utility roads is just not going to happen.
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Apr 11, 2023 02:28
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There's absolutely no way they'd do that... Right? That said I will welcome it with open arms if it comes with "Cars can pass road construction at a degraded speed." That would be such an insanely handy feature.
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Apr 11, 2023 02:32
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I would have to assume it would be abstracted to just having a truck drive over them occasionally.
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Apr 11, 2023 02:32
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Yeah, it'd absolutely have to come as at least "a degraded road is a dirt road, possibly a dirt road that switches directions every few seconds if it's being actively worked" but I'd totally tolerate that in exchange for "planned roads waiting for a crew are degraded roads".
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Apr 11, 2023 02:37
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I don't know which game you've been playing for several years, but this is the one where a mere city street with a lot of driveways will take a whole year to build because they have to do every single segment between roads separately. And putting up light poles keeps the street out of commission while THAT'S happening for every single one. Before the next segment can even start. Unless you are smart enough to place the road BEFORE laying any intersections, and really, really hoping that there's no problem when you're ready to join it to actual buildings. Hope you don't ever want to upgrade it. And where building highways is something you almost HAVE to do in segments with dirt road bypasses unless you want every single dumper to just hang out waiting for the asphalt to be used (don't forget the invisible travel to/from the edge to the paver!). Don't forget to remove them / mark them as priority traffic intersections, though! You may not specify that those particular dirt roads not be plowed, either, so really better pull up all the intersections just to be safe.  With the apparent inability to even do things like "maybe also carry a couple extra meters of steel for that tiny rail junction change up ahead that isn't directly after the segment you're building" I'm not exactly sanguine about this. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 02:46
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Just wait until rail maintenance becomes a thing and you don't just have to gently caress with the worst signal logic ever written once, but constantly instead. It'll be great, and it'll be something I turn off the second it's added, as long as it's an option.
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Apr 11, 2023 02:58
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Volmarias posted:With the apparent inability to even do things like "maybe also carry a couple extra meters of steel for that tiny rail junction change up ahead that isn't directly after the segment you're building" I'm not exactly sanguine about this. I have mentioned this before but this is a feature, but the trick is that it doesn't work if you're building electrified from scratch because electrified rail is built in two stages. If you build unelectrified rail it will carry a full load on the track builder and keep going and build as many segments as it can until it runs out. If you then select the rail to be upgraded to electric, it will do the same thing, building as many segments as it can before running out of components, you can have track builders go for kilometers in one go when electrifying. The trap is building electric from scratch because then each construction segment will go back and switch to a load of electrical equipment. But trains will build concrete right on through complex junctions, so you always want to build out in concrete and then electrify afterwards.
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Apr 11, 2023 03:11
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It would be great if those dumb trucks could bring all resources to construction site, not only current phase. It is great to build some long as underground wire or something, then wait a month for that 0.2 of electronics or whatever to be delivered, and of course it only arrives after 5 buses bring workers before that. But I'm not holding any hope for this. Btw. how does upgrading rail to electrified work? Do you have to gently caress around with signals? Because I find that the drat track builder gets confused just building regular rail if I decide to put some X switch between rails somewhere that has one way signals. Like it cannot go to some station to turn around
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Apr 11, 2023 08:40
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It works exactly like upgrading roads work, the track builders must be able to navigate to (although critically, also from) the segment being worked on, and they will not cross in-progress segments which includes segments that have been designated for upgrade but have not actually started yet. It is pretty awkward to upgrade in-use networks yes, you basically have to shut down traffic, have everything sit in depots, until the track layers can finish. And you also either have to designate one stretch at a time so the track layer can drive past it when it's done and go back to the depot, or switch your network to bidirectional running for a while and hope the track layers can handle it. Or you can manually click "return to depot" every time the track layer gets stuck because it won't reverse back past the one way signals. All this generally adds up to me advising that like with building track in the first place, you do not try to work on in-use areas of the network. The exact same method for using track builders (crossover followed by a single signal block for everything past the crossover per-track, so returning builders can get back onto the right side of the rails before they rejoin your actual network) works for electrification as well. It's purely just that you should lay out the build orders as first concrete, then electrification, so that the track layers will build multiple segments per run. I would agree that it would be nice if we could just drop everything off at the building site and also if vehicles would load multiple types of item if the source stocks multiple types of them? I'd also like to be able to build rails using offroad vehicles and helicopters. An offroad CO system in the style of the logging camp would be nice generally honestly.
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Apr 11, 2023 09:17
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That sounds like I won't be electrifying my railway
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Apr 11, 2023 09:35
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The best way to electrify your railway is to export an equivalent amount of electronic parts or something of equal value and in your head think really hard about how you paid an external, foreign firm to do it for your Republic. This lets you avoid any guilt when you flick off realistic mode and autobuy that upgrade. If you don’t have that guilt then just turn it off and autobuy that upgrade. I really do hate doing that because realistic mode is super fun but “crippling an entire rail network” is not a fun problem to solve in the context of this game.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:01
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Anime Store Adventure posted:The best way to electrify your railway is to export an equivalent amount of electronic parts or something of equal value and in your head think really hard about how you paid an external, foreign firm to do it for your Republic. This lets you avoid any guilt when you flick off realistic mode and autobuy that upgrade. I already bought trams for cash in my previous save, because I find it bit odd that they are born as electric trains (I have no idea how realistic this is, I assumed trams are brought to tram depots disassembled IRL), so I have no problem with that. And of course that tram didn't have a place to turn around (it cannot turn around in station like trucks and trains?) so it went to railway connection and kind of went off-rails and slowly drifted off map 
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Apr 11, 2023 15:14
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Yeah you need to build either a road loop or an end station for trams to be able to turn round, annoyingly. There is actually a tram that is light enough to be loaded on a truck, but it goes out of production fairly early and is also very slow. It's the little light blue one.
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Apr 11, 2023 15:31
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God, I wish they let you build railways using regular COs. I'm even okay with doing it at (essentially) a penalty, like digging railway tunnels without the tunneling train.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:21
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