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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Her name is Louise Sugden and she's done a ton of poo poo for GW over the years, enjoys heavy metal, and used to post her models on 4chan under the name "Savage Orc Guy". Go give her a follow! Pro-click, she's off to a great start. It's a really well-done mix of actual lore, speculation, some head canon, and a painting guide for her take on a chapter from 1e.
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Apr 10, 2023 05:19
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Thranguy posted:If the Chinese Room doesn't know anything then neither does your brain. Yeah cool, chatbots still aren't sentient and won't be and also the chinese room is a thought experiment and not a real thing that exists
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Apr 10, 2023 05:25
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Except that guy who banme'd over chatGPT rights. That was hilarious. It's not a person and has no legal status, but it did write me a fantastic short story about Goku meeting Abraham Lincoln, so that's worth at least a few rights in my book.
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Apr 10, 2023 05:51
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:In the minipainting/warhammer side of things, the third moderately well known painter/modeler from GW hobby videos has bailed on Games Workshop due to them pushing a draconian policy of you not being allowed to show your face during their painting videos because they are deathly afraid of you going indie and talking about games and models not published by Games Workshop. That Rainbow Warriors video was great.
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Apr 10, 2023 06:10
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:In the minipainting/warhammer side of things, the third moderately well known painter/modeler from GW hobby videos has bailed on Games Workshop due to them pushing a draconian policy of you not being allowed to show your face during their painting videos because they are deathly afraid of you going indie and talking about games and models not published by Games Workshop. You say "moderately well known" but she got like 25K subscribers in like 3 days? Good on her.
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Apr 10, 2023 08:18
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Part of that has been promotion from other youtubers. Midwinter Minis had been talking up her work for years, and did a promo video for her channel where they drove to Warhammer World to give her a "welcome to the dark side" cake. https://youtu.be/g7YWWxNTbWI
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Apr 10, 2023 08:46
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So if I understand this correctly, the "dark side" being metaphorically referred to here is when you're still producing content about Warhammer, but you're no longer doing it officially under GW? Like, no value judgement in that or anything, I'm just trying to get a grasp of the dynamics.
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Apr 10, 2023 09:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:So if I understand this correctly, the "dark side" being metaphorically referred to here is when you're still producing content about Warhammer, but you're no longer doing it officially under GW? the dynamic is mostly work for hire versus creator owned. Midwinter Minis is an independent channel, but is in part run by someone who used to work for Games Workshop as videographer / director of their Citadel Colour Masterclass painting series. That series, being owned by Games Workshop obviously only produces content that Games Workshop approves of (so only GW models painted with GW paints, as you would expect). Nothing wrong with that, it's their series on painting their models with their paints. It's also the channel that Louise Sugden was a painter for until very recently. However there's a lot more creative freedom outside of working for this series. So a channel like Midwinter Minis still has a lot of Warhammer focus, but they can paint whatever they want, dictated by personal tastes or audience response. And obviously shoulders the risk of it not being a steady work for hire income. It also means that channels like MW Minis are a lot freer to criticise the activities of Games Workshop when they consider them unfair or bad for the hobby. They've done videos before on Games Workshop underpaying their staff, the non-disclosure agreements that Games Workshop try and get indie creators to sign, bigotry in the Warhammer community, etc. So the "dark side" imagery is about Louise Sugden becoming an independent content creator and getting the freedom to make the videos she wants without editorial mandate. (there's also another side of this, as mentioned by thedicemustroll, of Games Workshop moving a lot of their video content behind a paywall and becoming much more restrictive in what they allow their painters to do)
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Apr 10, 2023 09:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:So if I understand this correctly, the "dark side" being metaphorically referred to here is when you're still producing content about Warhammer, but you're no longer doing it officially under GW? "I would like to paint space marines for a living, but now and then a roman centurion or a malufeaux cowboy would be nice." Cut to Games Workshop executives waking up drenched in sweat gasping
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Apr 10, 2023 11:52
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:"I would like to paint space marines for a living, but now and then a roman centurion or a malufeaux cowboy would be nice." which is always deeply silly as the economic realities of doing painting/wargaming youtubes is that if you want people to see your poo poo you're either doing Warhammer or at least mentioning Warhammer a lot in your video descriptions because that's what the youtube algorithm pushes.
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Apr 10, 2023 12:13
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If you really want to nail the algorithm, I'm pretty sure it's also proclaiming that any new development means GW is a doomed failure. I'm not sure why twitch and tube are so driven by negativity. Probably because it milks 'engagement' from fans arguing against your video and from haters feeling validated. It's all very Facebook 2016 but for nerds.
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Apr 10, 2023 12:28
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moths posted:If you really want to nail the algorithm, I'm pretty sure it's also proclaiming that any new development means GW is a doomed failure. angry people want validation that their misplaced rage at toy companies is valid and good
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Apr 10, 2023 12:34
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moths posted:If you really want to nail the algorithm, I'm pretty sure it's also proclaiming that any new development means GW is a doomed failure. There's at least one talking-head-to-camera account that is basically just a weekly roundup of "why xyz means Games Workshop doesn't care about you" that used to get promoted into my timeline constantly. During the OGL discourse in December and January they pivoted to "why xyz means Wizards Of The Coast doesn't care about you". I guess seeing a new grift open up. Like, it's not that they're wrong necessarily, it just seems like the least interesting way to engage with the subject.
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Apr 10, 2023 12:40
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It's no secret- argumentative poo poo on the internet is basically the easy button for engagement. Either people nod and agree with you or people hit up your comment section about how wrong you are, but it's all cash money in the end. Talking about things you know is not actually that high engagement by comparison.
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Apr 10, 2023 13:18
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Over-the-top raging negativity has been the Thing on the internet long before all the social media channels we take for granted.
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Apr 10, 2023 13:31
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Over-the-top raging negativity has been the Thing on the internet long before all the social media channels we take for granted. It's comforting to know that such behavior would never happen on this internet comedy forum.
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Apr 10, 2023 13:38
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I realize it's been that way for a while but it feels worse now, I think because of glut of streamers and would-be influencers trying to one-up one another. My buddy sent me this:  Not even four years ago, a game would have to be at least previewed before a tribunal of nerds could pronounce judgment. I expect the future will involve racing to trash things before they're announced.
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Apr 10, 2023 13:49
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moths posted:I expect the future will involve racing to trash things before they're announced. "The future"?
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Apr 10, 2023 13:58
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Lou was also almost certainly under intense scrutiny from the company since her partner (Honest Wargamer) is a major leaker. I can’t imagine that felt like a great work environment.
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Apr 10, 2023 15:00
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moths posted:I realize it's been that way for a while but it feels worse now, I think because of glut of streamers and would-be influencers trying to one-up one another. Wow check out the fresh new Wilford Brimley for the gaming age.
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Apr 10, 2023 15:19
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PantsOptional posted:Lou was also almost certainly under intense scrutiny from the company since her partner (Honest Wargamer) is a major leaker. I can’t imagine that felt like a great work environment. Is he? Most of the time he leaks aos stuff day before embargo end. He is major poo poo talker tho
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Apr 10, 2023 16:13
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The algorithm, particularly on youtube and tiktok, practically forces channels to make the most clickbaity titles and thumbnails possible. Currently what gets the most promotion and clicks is stuff like "<number of reasons> why <thing> is bad, you WON'T BELIEVE IT!" Even people who genuinely do not want to put poo poo like that on their videos find that if they refuse, they don't show up in people's streams. A huge proportion of the audience just clicks on whatever the stream presents to them next, or picks a video from the 9 that show on the screen after the last video. You show up there randomly at first, but you get seeded far more if more people click when you showed up randomly, and that snowballs very very fast. I've seen videos from multiple different streamers in totally different subject areas that basically amount to "here's how to get your money from your youtubes, by generating views, by doing what the algo wants you to do" and that's like... woodworking, science news, a call-in show analyzing poker hands, LPs, cutting people's lawns for free, everything. So I agree that going for incendiary headlines isn't new at all, it's at least as old as newsprint, but the volume and rate of new content is multiplied by the requirement to be totally mercenary about shaping it to the algo if you want to make any money and that sure does seem like it's worse now than ever, to me.
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Apr 10, 2023 16:31
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theironjef posted:Wow check out the fresh new Wilford Brimley for the gaming age. I’m more impressed at the guy in the upper right who seems to be live-streaming from his kitchen.
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Apr 10, 2023 17:35
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If I wanted to make a video on, say, Allied strategy on turn 4 of Empire of the Sun, the way to maximize engagements would be to have the static image be of two wojack faces with Japanese people crying over a flaming zero with maybe a smug wojack on top of a B-17 with the text being "Based strategies that make the IJA cry" or something, as opposed to something more accurate, like "an exploration of Allied strategy in Turn 4 of Empire of the Sun" with a picture of the game box or the map.
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Apr 10, 2023 17:37
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Panzeh posted:If I wanted to make a video on, say, Allied strategy on turn 4 of Empire of the Sun, the way to maximize engagements would be to have the static image be of two wojack faces with Japanese people crying over a flaming zero with maybe a smug wojack on top of a B-17 with the text being "Based strategies that make the IJA cry" or something, as opposed to something more accurate, like "an exploration of Allied strategy in Turn 4 of Empire of the Sun" with a picture of the game box or the map. Also that stuff works because I already want to watch this video
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Apr 10, 2023 17:46
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The bigger struggle with YouTube is that producing content that only some viewers enjoy will tank your rating in the algorithm. So producing World of Tanks content on your mostly WH40K can crater both if parts of your audience only watches one and not the other.
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Apr 10, 2023 17:56
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Tibalt posted:The bigger struggle with YouTube is that producing content that only some viewers enjoy will tank your rating in the algorithm. So producing World of Tanks content on your mostly WH40K can crater both if parts of your audience only watches one and not the other. Yeah, this is also very true which is why i think all the big channels started making alternate channels for all their not-main-subject videos as a sort of loss leader. gradenko_2000 posted:Also that stuff works because I already want to watch this video You see, the crying wojack is actually representing the player who complains about 'pinning', a tactic where you use the allied long-range bombers(B-17s) to attack a hex alone to keep its occupants from responding somewhere else. This is actually a fairly common complaint about the game when you get it done to you the first time, but there's a lot of limitations on the tactic.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:17
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Lamuella posted:There's at least one talking-head-to-camera account that is basically just a weekly roundup of "why xyz means Games Workshop doesn't care about you" that used to get promoted into my timeline constantly. During the OGL discourse in December and January they pivoted to "why xyz means Wizards Of The Coast doesn't care about you". I guess seeing a new grift open up. Thats discourse miniatures and she made a separate account to poo poo on DnD because the algorithim promotes growing channels better or something. The Warhammer stuff has kind of stalled, similar viewers every video, little sub growth. She has also been buying almost literally, without any irony, every single box set she has absolutely been fuming over for the last two years, in the face of being evicted and having to move back home, so I do wonder if her videos about how Warhammer exploits people with compulsions to make bad financial decisions was inspired by that. But she really needs to stop buying poo poo. On the other hand, the truth of the matter is nobody really gives a gently caress if you review Goblin Rave, the new and interesting miniatures game where you play as rival goblin clans trying to have the most fun at the party with its cool minis and awesome listbuilding, most of the people into this hobby want to hear about Warhammer. Even the big names will go "look! It's Glippy Dippy, the Miniatures game of running and gunning!" and that video will massively underperform so they just record a "you know these models from games workshop cost too much haha" video and out-do it by a few thousand. We often forget while the algo pushes some things and doesn't others, sometimes the audience just isn't there, something Elon Musk learned a month or so ago
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Apr 10, 2023 18:55
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There's a depressing amount of truth to that. Dave from MS Paints did a good sum up on this in a video from last year. I think his specific example involved a friend (Geek Gaming Scenics?) doing a video about portable wargaming, and specifically the idea of fitting the whole setup for Kings Of War into a bum-bag (with 10mm scale minis etc), but then thinking that he had to release it as "pocket warhammer" because his audience wouldn't click on a video about Kings Of War. I'd also like to think I'm not part of the problem, but I'm going to click on the videos that mention Pathfinder that in my feed before I click on the videos that mention Dungeon Crawl Classics, because I'm more interested in Pathfinder.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:15
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theironjef posted:I could tweet "fart" and do bigger numbers than this. Halloween Jack posted:I double dog dare you. https://twitter.com/SystemMastery/status/1631046691976622081?s=20
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Apr 10, 2023 19:27
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moths posted:I realize it's been that way for a while but it feels worse now, I think because of glut of streamers and would-be influencers trying to one-up one another. Spikey Bits trying to stir poo poo, what a surprise...
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Apr 10, 2023 19:54
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jadarx posted:Spikey Bits trying to stir poo poo, what a surprise... He recovered after the "lying about Vallejo pulling off a massive psyop to make people hate speedpaints" thing fast
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Apr 10, 2023 19:58
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:He recovered after the "lying about Vallejo pulling off a massive psyop to make people hate speedpaints" thing fast oo what's this? I missed this
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Apr 10, 2023 20:04
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HopperUK posted:oo what's this? I missed this https://spikeybits.com/2022/11/the-hate-ends-here.html Basically he's a jackass whose drama mongering caused him a temporary blacklist on the official warhammer 40k subreddit, he basically semi-directly accused a guy of making GBS threads on army painter speedpaints because he was secretly working with vallejo. The blacklist has seemingly been lifted since then and Spikey went back to attacking the faceless GW corporation
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Apr 10, 2023 20:10
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HopperUK posted:oo what's this? I missed this The short is a youtube painter Juan Hidalgo made a video about the original run of speed paints having re-activation issues. Juan at that time was working with Vallejo on their line of quick paints, which he had not disclosed. Spikey Bits put out an article saying that Juan was paid by Vallejo to trash Army Painter. And that he didn't really paint his minis either. You could make a case that Juan should have said something, but Spikey Bits has to get those clicks and went nuts.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:11
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 This ban post is filled with some serious pent-up rage here lol I also like that they "condemned" the hate they were receiving while apologizing. "I want to say yes we hosed up but hey some of you guys are really really mean!" TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 20:17
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loving hell what a mess, thanks folks.
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Apr 10, 2023 22:07
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There is no fandom or other interest community on the face of the planet that doesn't have some kind of really hosed power dynamics involving a scandal in there somewhere. It's really fascinating to uncover them.
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Apr 10, 2023 22:29
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Yeah, even the smaller stuff has this kind of weirdness, such as the apparent jackassery of Khurasan miniatures, whose issues include supposedly copying lines after being rebuffed from buying them, sockpuppet reviews, and trying to sculpt stuff from the currently-ongoing Ukraine conflict, which felt oddly tasteless. Shame, too, as he’s a fantastic sculptor in 15mm and has a huge varied set of lines.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:07
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Is the Khurasan dude sculpting stuff or does he freelance all his stuff? Waaaaaaay back in the day when s/f 15s were the hot new thing (goddamn, this was like 10-12 years ago now that I think about how long ago some of those projects were) it seemed like he was always complaining about how upcoming releases were delayed because X sculpt hadn't been finished by the sculptor yet.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:38
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