OSHA IV: NO SAFETY - SMOKING FIRST - The Something Awful Forums

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Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; ERM... Actually I have stellar scores on the surveys, and every year students tell me that my classes are the best ones they’ve ever taken.

Mister Speaker posted:

^ That's fascinating, but does that mean that the curvature you see in smoke trails from rocket launches has nothing to do with the Coriolis Effect? It's just the rocket changing attitude? Or is it both?

I am not an expert on that, but I would say that the shape of smoke trails left by rocket launches is affected by, in order,

1. the rocket's actual flight path
2. normal atmospheric winds
3. the coriolis effect and other subtleties.

If the smoke trail looks like it's going upwards at first and then curving off in one direction, that's because the rocket is actually doing that. Again, orbit is a problem of sideways velocity, not altitude. You could orbit the earth just above sea level if you found a path that didn't run into any hills. We don't do that because it doesn't have much of a point (it's important for satellites to be able to see a lot of the earth at once, for instance) and, perhaps more importantly, because any rocket designed with known technology would just melt and explode in the dense low-altitude air well before it got to the ~27,000 km/h needed to achieve orbit.

Mister Speaker posted:

So this is why 'escape velocity' is a thing then, right? You need to get that baseball carrying enough kinetic energy that gravity doesn't pull on it enough to bring it back down? And does this mean that achieving orbit is a balance of these forces, where gravity continues to make you 'fall' but you're still moving just fast enough that you stay at a comfortable altitude?

Not quite. Gravity always pulls on it the exact same amount, and the baseball is always accelerating downwards at 9.8m/s^2. This is how orbit works:

Pvt. Parts posted:

If you throw a baseball at the horizon, it will arch towards the Earth and eventually land. If you throw it fast enough, it will arch towards the Earth but "miss", traveling too fast for the Earth to pull it down in time; it's now in orbit, perpetually falling and arching towards the Earth, but traveling too fast perpendicular to the surface to be brought down to it.

Essentially, you are throwing the baseball so fast that the arc it falls in has the same radius as the Earth itself, so even though Earth is still pulling it down just as fast as ever, the Earth's surface is curving away from the baseball at the same rate. Thus it never hits the ground.

If the Earth were a flat plane, and you fired a baseball sideways at 27,000 km/h from a cannon 9.8 meters above the ground, the baseball would hit the earth 1 second later, just as if you dropped it from 9.8 meters. Same gravitational influence either way. (Though the one from the cannon would land 7.6 kilometers downrange). Orbit is a function of speed, gravity, and the radius of the body you're orbiting.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Apr 10, 2023

# ? Apr 10, 2023 17:14

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 05:10

Ablative: Nov 9, 2012; Someone is getting this as an avatar. I don't know who, but it's gonna happen.

CainFortea posted:

Also escape velocity is different than orbital velocity. Escape velocity is the minimum velocity needed for something to leave the origin's gravitational influence. Escape velocity higher than orbital velocity.

For example, the ISS orbits at 7.66km/s. Escape velocity of earth is 11.2km/s

Somewhat paradoxically, however, the higher your orbit is, the slower you need to go to maintain it; geostationary orbits (like GPS or communications) only need to orbit at 3.07km/s.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 17:19

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

CainFortea posted:

Also escape velocity is different than orbital velocity. Escape velocity is the minimum velocity needed for something to leave the origin's gravitational influence.

You never leave the origin's gravitational influence, because gravity is an infinite-ranged force.

Imagine a universe with nothing in it but the Earth and some mass, like an asteroid, at a distance of infinity from the Earth. There's still a gravitational attraction between the two, the asteroid will start to fall towards the Earth. This will take a *very long time*, because the force at that distance is so small, but at it gets closer the force becomes greater and it continues to accelerate and it will eventually crash into the Earth at some particular velocity. "Escape velocity" is that, except running everything in reverse: it's the velocity you need to escape to infinity without falling back.

Typically it's referenced to the surface but you can reference it to whatever altitude you want. For example, solar escape velocity from the surface of the sun is 617 kps. But solar escape velocity from a 1 AU orbit is only 42 kps, which is why it's far easier to launch a probe that escapes the solar system entirely than it is to launch something into the sun. If you had a magical rocket engine that could just apply enough force forever to keep moving you upwards against the Earth's gravity at 1 meter per second, then eventually you'd get far enough away from the Earth that escape velocity at that altitude is less than 1 meter per second and now you're free.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 17:40

nomad2020: Jan 30, 2007

How many (thousands of)Km/s that you need to get around the solar system. This chart relies on making very economical and slow transfers.

This comes from the same people who make these charts for KSP, I make no guarantees on accuracy. Fuel your own space rocket with care.

I just find it neat how hard it is to actually go anywhere compared to going further into open space.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 17:48

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Phanatic posted:

Imagine a universe with nothing in it but the Earth and some mass, like an asteroid, at a distance of infinity from the Earth. There's still a gravitational attraction between the two, the asteroid will start to fall towards the Earth.

I think the universe is expanding at a rate that that possibly doesn't happen.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 17:54

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Playing Kerbal Space Program should be mandatory, imho.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 17:58

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Phanatic posted:

You never leave the origin's gravitational influence, because gravity is an infinite-ranged force.

Imagine a universe with nothing in it but the Earth and some mass, like an asteroid, at a distance of infinity from the Earth. There's still a gravitational attraction between the two, the asteroid will start to fall towards the Earth. This will take a *very long time*, because the force at that distance is so small, but at it gets closer the force becomes greater and it continues to accelerate and it will eventually crash into the Earth at some particular velocity. "Escape velocity" is that, except running everything in reverse: it's the velocity you need to escape to infinity without falling back.

Typically it's referenced to the surface but you can reference it to whatever altitude you want. For example, solar escape velocity from the surface of the sun is 617 kps. But solar escape velocity from a 1 AU orbit is only 42 kps, which is why it's far easier to launch a probe that escapes the solar system entirely than it is to launch something into the sun. If you had a magical rocket engine that could just apply enough force forever to keep moving you upwards against the Earth's gravity at 1 meter per second, then eventually you'd get far enough away from the Earth that escape velocity at that altitude is less than 1 meter per second and now you're free.

I like this explanation except gravitational force between two objects at distance infinity is not well defined or asking some people it's just plain undefined. Just because we can integrate to infinity and it involves taking a limit doesn't mean the same limit defines an output when infinity is supplied in the original function. Considering infinite is not a real coordinate or distance in the universe as we understand it I lean toward undefined especially in gravitation functions.

Instead it means there are speeds you can be going relative to a body that gravity will never catch up and and reduce your velocity to 0 or below. From a human point of view it'd appear to be impossible for the body to attract the speedy object without outside force. Maybe that's harder to conceptualize than a thought experiment about infinite distance and anyway maybe not useful to conceptualize because of stupid physics things like

Flipperwaldt posted:

I think the universe is expanding at a rate that that possibly doesn't happen.

Or the fact we haven't proved space doesn't do incredibly stupid non euclidean poo poo like loop back on itself.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 18:30

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

Infinity is a mathematical construct that doesn't actually exist but yeah, every point in space is very minutely moving apart from every other point in space (and you can imagine new points getting added in the middle), when things are close enough gravity far outweighs this so stuff still moves towards each other but across vast distances it all adds up to point A and point B moving away from each other faster than the speed of light.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 18:34

Weembles: Apr 19, 2004

nomad2020 posted:

How many (thousands of)Km/s that you need to get around the solar system. This chart relies on making very economical and slow transfers.

This comes from the same people who make these charts for KSP, I make no guarantees on accuracy. Fuel your own space rocket with care.

I just find it neat how hard it is to actually go anywhere compared to going further into open space.

The thing I like most about charts like this is that it shows how much energy it takes to drop something into the sun.

You have to cancel out so much speed from the Earth's orbit!

# ? Apr 10, 2023 18:39

Scholtz: Aug 24, 2007; Zorchin' some Flemoids

Mozi posted:

Infinity is a mathematical construct that doesn't actually exist but yeah, every point in space is very minutely moving apart from every other point in space (and you can imagine new points getting added in the middle), when things are close enough gravity far outweighs this so stuff still moves towards each other but across vast distances it all adds up to point A and point B moving away from each other faster than the speed of light.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 18:41

BitBasher: Jun 6, 2004; You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.

Antigravitas posted:

Playing Kerbal Space Program should be mandatory, imho.

It has the side effect of making almost all space movies far more annoying. They basically get everything wrong, always and forever. For no reason most of the time.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:01

Zopotantor: Feb 24, 2013; ...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

Ablative posted:

Somewhat paradoxically, however, the higher your orbit is, the slower you need to go to maintain it; geostationary orbits (like GPS or communications) only need to orbit at 3.07km/s.

Yeah, orbital mechanics are weird. If you want to overtake an object that is in the same orbit as you but ahead, you have to start by slowing down to drop your height, wait for the resulting faster orbit to take you in front of the target, then speed up again to return to the original orbit.

Buzz Aldrin got to the moon on the strength of getting a PhD figuring out the details of this stuff.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:13

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:20

Uthor: Jul 9, 2006; Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

Pvt. Parts posted:

If you throw a baseball at the horizon, it will arch towards the Earth and eventually land. If you throw it fast enough, it will arch towards the Earth but "miss", traveling too fast for the Earth to pull it down in time; it's now in orbit, perpetually falling and arching towards the Earth, but traveling too fast perpendicular to the surface to be brought down to it.

If you do this perfectly, can you technically get three strikes with a single pitch?

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:37

New Zealand can eat me: Aug 29, 2008

Uthor posted:

If you do this perfectly, can you technically get three strikes with a single pitch?

The baseball would burn up leaving the atmosphere the first time, so no. :v:

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:41

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

Uthor posted:

If you do this perfectly, can you technically get three strikes with a single pitch?

This kills the catcher.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:50

Uthor: Jul 9, 2006; Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

Wingnut Ninja posted:

This kills the catcher.

Gotta make sacrifices to win a World Series.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 19:52

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

https://i.imgur.com/3uFfYWg.mp4

# ? Apr 10, 2023 20:02

Necrosaro: Dec 31, 2008; A Necrosaro Appears!; Fun Shoe

PurpleXVI posted:

https://i.imgur.com/3uFfYWg.mp4

Just wait for the vapor cloud to find a spark. It will clean itself up.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 20:32

Green Intern: Dec 29, 2008; Loon, Crazy and Laughable

PurpleXVI posted:

https://i.imgur.com/3uFfYWg.mp4

This could have been avoided if they didn't buy a boat in the first place.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:08

Blue Moonlight: Apr 28, 2005; Bitter and Sarcastic

Green Intern posted:

This could have been avoided if they didn't buy a boat in the first place.

I was going to say, you can just caption a static picture of a boat and still be accurate.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:09

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Can't they just mop up the petrol and get a refund?

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:10

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Wouldn't it be more ecological to light it on fire than let it contaminate everything

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:12

BitBasher: Jun 6, 2004; You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.

Zopotantor posted:

Yeah, orbital mechanics are weird. If you want to overtake an object that is in the same orbit as you but ahead, you have to start by slowing down to drop your height, wait for the resulting faster orbit to take you in front of the target, then speed up again to return to the original orbit.

Buzz Aldrin got to the moon on the strength of getting a PhD figuring out the details of this stuff.

Difficulty of doing space related things for the first time on a scale of 1-10:
Getting off the launchpad: 1
Getting into space: 2
Getting back from orbit: 2
Getting into orbit: 4
Getting back from orbit alive: 6
Docking two craft in orbit: 29

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:14

New Zealand can eat me: Aug 29, 2008

I'm surprised that pump was allowed to run up that high. Only ever worked at one station, but our pumps stopped somewhere around 40 gallons at the time (he's at >60 here). The limit was based on total transaction cost. It was half to prevent huge drive-offs, and half to incentivize anyone who needs that much gas for signing up for the fleet program. You get a slightly better price in exchange for paying for a predefined amount via check/wire, saves a fuckton on processing fees. We were a very busy 24 hour station with oversized storage tanks that covered for local fleets when they got into tight spots from using too much/delivery delays etc. poo poo like small-medium delivery companies and rental car lots.

We were absolutely not allowed to just hose gasoline into the drains, jesus. We had a shed with a pallet and a half of cat litter for situations like this. Once it all gets soaked up its not so bad. Kind of like shoveling wet, flammable snow.

I feel like the risk is great enough here to justify hitting the emergency pump stop and having the fire department show up? Is it possible to overreact to that much gasoline in a wide open container??

New Zealand can eat me fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Apr 10, 2023

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:20

DandyLion: Jun 24, 2010; disrespectul Deciever

BitBasher posted:

Difficulty of doing space related things for the first time on a scale of 1-10:
...
Docking two craft in orbit: 29

Made any easier with a Hanz Zimmer scored soundtrack?

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:22

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Blue Moonlight posted:

I was going to say, you can just caption a static picture of a boat and still be accurate.

As far as boats go that looks... maybe not too bad imho. If you live near water, like I do, and enjoy outdoors, like I do, some kind of boat is a great bonus. Be it a row boat or a kayak, it greatly increases your options in reaching places like uninhabited islands which are abundant here. I wouldn't buy a boat even that big, but if I lived by the sea then I might consider if I deemed it more seaworthy. I don't like fishing so much that I'd invest into a bigger boat just for that though. And rowing or paddling is better anyway, for health and nature.

A boat big enough to sleep under the deck would be fantastic, my aunt's husband had a very old very basic boat and it's fine if you want to spend all your spare time repairing it so you can occasionally boat for less than half the year. Or if you just like to :homebrew:

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:24

New Zealand can eat me: Aug 29, 2008

imho pontoons are where its at for lake/river life. All I want is a large floating rectangle to party on

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:31

DRINK ME: Jul 31, 2006; i cant fix avs like this because idk the bbcode - HTML IS BS MAN

mobby_6kl posted:

It does look like China, but what's more surprising is that those two idiots didn't crash into eachother before

Yeah it does look a bit fishy, there could be a motor turning it off screen, wouldn't be the first time someone faked things for the internet.

What does OSHA have to say about this?

https://i.imgur.com/XILMBG2.mp4

How strong does the �I just want to step off the side and fall� feeling get at that height?

Realising you�re not actually standing but it�s the same instinct at work� this is probably another reason they�re never letting me go to space.

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:52

boar guy: Jan 25, 2007

DRINK ME posted:

How strong does the �I just want to step off the side and fall� feeling get at that height?

Realising you�re not actually standing but it�s the same instinct at work� this is probably another reason they�re never letting me go to space.

https://www.livescience.com/what-is-call-of-the-void

# ? Apr 10, 2023 21:59

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Speaking of space OSHA, here�s a fun event: an astronaut nearly drowned in his suit during an EVA, due to a water leak.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/astronaut-drowned-space-due-nasas-poor-communication-report/story?id=22687977

# ? Apr 10, 2023 22:02

Cabbages and VHS: Aug 25, 2004; Listen, I've been around a bit, you know, and I thought I'd seen some creepy things go on in the movie business, but I really have to say this is the most disgusting thing that's ever happened to me.

LifeSunDeath posted:

wow you ever see a freeway just end with zero signage?
https://i.imgur.com/h8II0WY.mp4

no, and while this seems crazy by hyper-signed US standards, I'm not actually sure that's what we see here, looks like a series of signs explaining what's about to happen ending with a 20 (km?/h?) sign

# ? Apr 10, 2023 22:03

BitBasher: Jun 6, 2004; You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.

New Zealand can eat me posted:

its not so bad. Kind of like shoveling wet, flammable snow.

I feel like the risk is great enough here to justify hitting the emergency pump stop and having the fire department show up? Is it possible to overreact to that much gasoline in a wide open container??

OSHA IV: like shoveling wet, flammable snow

DandyLion posted:

Made any easier with a Hanz Zimmer scored soundtrack?

It may be, but Blue Danube is preferred, actually!

# ? Apr 10, 2023 22:12

Borscht: Jun 4, 2011

I was driving in Mexico one night between dorado and...somewhere? (I was dead tired) and the highway just turned to gravel then the right lane ended without warning. I pulled over and had a little nap to celebrate my still being alive

# ? Apr 10, 2023 22:12