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Are there any couples in Persona? Especially normal couples with normal relationships (quirky but loving still counts as normal). I guess that's hard to do due to the age range the game is focused on, but I'm trying to think of any characters you meet who aren't single (in a way that actually comes up).
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Apr 10, 2023 17:27
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Chisato and Yosuke
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Apr 10, 2023 17:31
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ApplesandOranges posted:P5's probably the only curveball for me. I expected Yoshizawa to be lower, Akechi to be higher, maybe even Makoto lower. I think Ryuji doesn't deserve 9th, but considering general popularity and the roughness of the Okumura arc, I think realistically he could only have gone up above Morgana. He's not beating any of the girls, and I don't think he beats Yusuke. Haru is also not a surprising last place, she got done really dirty in vanilla. You're probably underestimating Akechi's popularity, he's super popular and I honestly expected him to be 3rd, if not 2nd. Makoto being high on the list isn't unsurprising. Nobody else wants to go watch hyper-violent yakuza films with me.
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Apr 10, 2023 17:48
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Yosuke should be split into two characters for these purposes - Before Kanji Yosuke and After Kanji Yosuke, imo.
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Apr 10, 2023 17:59
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NikkolasKing posted:Interesting observations, although I think a better summary of Aigis and Rise is "obviously madly in love with the PC and sort of your designated girlfriend." I'm suer that helped their votes. I know nothing of Kasumi or if she fits this pattern, though. You really should play Royal, but, ye. Prowler posted:Are there any couples in Persona? Especially normal couples with normal relationships (quirky but loving still counts as normal). There's Old Couple in Persona 3 and, uh Maybe that's it? There's occasional allusions to off-screen parents or teachers having spouses, and obvious but uncomfirmed couples like Ann and Shiho, but I think the next closest thing would be Junpei's arc, also in P3.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:01
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nvm beaten
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Apr 10, 2023 18:11
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The strongest couple is Chie and steak.Funky Valentine posted:Yosuke should be split into two characters for these purposes - Before Kanji Yosuke and After Kanji Yosuke, imo. Teddie could also have a before/after portion. Like before Rise's dungeon he's alright, maybe a couple too many 'scoring' jokes but he's mostly... alright. After he gets his body he just nosedives.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:18
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or maybe they should write characters that don't become worse people as the story progresses Particularly in the game that thematically centers on characters facing their worst selves and growing from there. Yosuke and Teddie have bigger issues than their self-esteem! Like nearly all the Phantom Thieves start out antagonizing and blackmailing you because they're at their lowest and out of options, and then they don't do it anymore once you've extended a hand.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:34
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Another reason Ryuji is the best
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Apr 10, 2023 19:04
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:or maybe they should write characters that don't become worse people as the story progresses It's 50-50, right? Yusuke, Makoto and Futaba do, Ryuji, Ann and Haru don't.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:05
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Morgana kind of pushes Haru into doing that but you can tell her heart isn’t really in it
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Apr 10, 2023 19:14
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Arist posted:I get why Makoto is second, but I have soured so hard on that character She just gets way too much focus at the expense of the rest of the party after her introduction. Futaba also kinda suffers from this since suddenly her hacking becomes the solution to everything post Palace 4. I don't know though, I still like Makoto. We joke about the cop stuff but honestly it's fine, characters are allowed to be wrong about things and make mistakes, particularly teenagers when it comes to their futures. Also Strikers helps to dilute the focus problem by giving everybody pretty much equal time. Zulily Zoetrope posted:Like nearly all the Phantom Thieves start out antagonizing and blackmailing you because they're at their lowest and out of options, and then they don't do it anymore once you've extended a hand. Yusuke ends up being the best but it is pretty hosed up that his introduction is blackmailing a girl to pose nude for him or he'll call the cops on her and her friends for trespassing. Especially since as much as much as the story tries to recontextualize him later down the line as borderline ace, in those early scenes he is genuinely flustered by Ann's flirting and has to remind himself multiple times "bad Yusuke, this is for art!" so it's not like it was some 100% platonically artistic thing for him. Also this is why Haru is great: it never even crosses her mind to blackmail the thieves even though she knows their identities and honestly not the greatest first impression of them given what Morgana must have been saying to her. It's the thieves who confront her and all she says is "sorry but I can't work with people who are mean to their cat, good day. My name is Beauty Thief!" She's perfect and it's a shame she gets the absolute least amount of focus among the cast courtesy of being shoved into the back end of the game.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:18
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Hashino is weird about women.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:24
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Dawgstar posted:Makoto being high on the list isn't unsurprising. Nobody else wants to go watch hyper-violent yakuza films with me. Haru probably would. And she definitely watches pro wrestling with Makoto (hence the Showtime).
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Apr 10, 2023 19:28
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's 50-50, right? Yusuke, Makoto and Futaba do, Ryuji, Ann and Haru don't. Ann kind of forces herself into the party by saying she'll go to the Palace alone if they don't take her. Morgana also tries to gang press you with his little quid pro quo deal. Like it's nowhere near the level of the others, but I still technically count it. Only Haru is truly innocent at heart.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:38
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Haru gets the shaft in Royal but she is one of the best parts of Strikers so it evens out https://youtu.be/Z_Is9KqNlyI
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Apr 10, 2023 19:39
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Haru isn't my favourite (Yukiko did the 'sweet but also savage' thing better personally), but even I think she got a raw deal in vanilla. Strikers really helped her out a lot. I still wouldn't rank her high but that's purely because I like the rest of the PTs better, not because she's scum/annoying like Yosuke/Teddie.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:52
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Prowler posted:Are there any couples in Persona? Especially normal couples with normal relationships (quirky but loving still counts as normal). Um... um... The couple blackmailing Kawakami? The parents of Futaba's abused childhood friend?
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Apr 10, 2023 20:26
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Man, lotta people really hate Yosuke and Teddie. Not that they're my favourites - I mainly found them to be a pair of idiotic teenage dorks - but they didn't elicit any more of a groan from me than any of the other poorly aged parts of P4 / P4G. I mean... The bathhouse dungeon... THE ENTIRE BATHHOUSE DUNGEON Didn't know if I was playing Persona or watching a Carry On film half the time.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:31
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The bathhouse dungeon is fine, it only aged poorly because of Yosuke/Teddie. The heart of it is still masculinity issues. And honestly I liked Yosuke/Teddie fine when I first played P4G. Their humour just really has not aged well.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:37
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Apparently Altus has registered p3re.jp Baby baby babyyy
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Apr 10, 2023 20:42
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The bathhouse dungeon itself wasn’t that bad but what they do with Kanji after really sucks
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Apr 10, 2023 20:44
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Eh, let's be honest. P4 / P4G is an extremely silly game with plenty of stupid moments but at least it all feels like a good-hearted game for the vast majority. I can forgo it's dated bits without getting too scathing about it's less well-aged characters. It's a product of its time for better or worse and for me at least, I didn't think Teddie, Yosuke or whoever ruined the story, which is still filled with quite a lot of positivity. That being said, there's no doubt that it wouldn't be a bad thing if they'd cleaned up these problematic parts for today's younger audience; P6 can hopefully handle that if Atlus have any sense.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:03
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One of my wishes in P6 is no hot spring scenes. Also let me date cute guys (that don't die).
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Apr 10, 2023 21:05
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I just want FeMC to come back as an option.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:09
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I can get behind a lot of things in P4 having aged badly, but I don't see how it applies to Yosuke/Teddie. Every other scene from Kanji on is them getting negative feedback including being told explicitly that picking on Kanji isn't funny, it's bullying, and that creeping on the girls is sexual harassment. The game was perfectly aware that this behavior was lovely as it was being written. Was "you're just making people feel bad, no one but you is enjoying this" some kind of knee-slapper back in the aughts that everyone recognized as an obviously satirical statement?
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Apr 10, 2023 21:16
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P6 better have a cool animal party member.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:25
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Kanji manages to be one of the best characters in the series in spite of being a somewhat rote take on masculinity, the rest of the team doesn't really work as well. As for the Phantom Thieves I like them even if they feel a bit too much like wannabe heist archetypes with undercooked social links, but then Dowdz's Crimson fanfiction has almost overwritten what I remember from the game just by being a really solid take on what these characters could have been. bobjr posted:P6 better have a cool animal party member. Wonder what animal they'll go with.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:50
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neonchameleon posted:Haru probably would. And she definitely watches pro wrestling with Makoto (hence the Showtime). Makoto and Haru have Bullet Club t-shirts confirmed.
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Apr 10, 2023 22:56
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DC Murderverse posted:The bathhouse dungeon itself wasn’t that bad but what they do with Kanji after really sucks Yeah this really cuts to the heart of the big issue with P4's themes: on their own they are interesting, sometimes even great to explore. But in terms of how they're actually utilized in the story, it's often just so a character can be the butt of a joke or placed in an awkward situation to amuse the player. The whole bathhouse dungeon and the over the top gay stereotype Kanji has created as his shadow could have a way for Kanji to confront his own hangups with masculinity and sexuality, and why he's so afraid to be viewed by others as similar to his shadow. But instead Yosuke just goes on to make a bunch of gay jokes at his expense and Kanji gets flustered and pissed off every time. So then you have to go back to the bathouse and realize oh this wasn't a transgressive way to explore an interesting theme, it was just Hashino's homophobia. Not to open the Naoto can of worms but she's got it just as bad, if not worse, with how the game handles her arc's themes of gender identity and expression, as well as institutional sexism.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:27
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:or maybe they should write characters that don't become worse people as the story progresses This sounds lame narratively. Characters becoming worse people can be really interesting. They should explore that more imo.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:38
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YaketySass posted:Wonder what animal they'll go with. I want a hawk or some kind of bird but then we risk getting Persona Animorphs
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Apr 10, 2023 23:41
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Like the scene of Yosuke, Kanji and Naoto wanting to outright murder a guy is great. Shoulda been more of that. If Yosuke being homophobic in a played up teenage boy sorta way was treated more seriously as a character trait that gets explored and dealt with and not as a silly little running gag at his expense than that would be cool too. Yosuke is just a common vehicle for comedy in Persona 4, and its comedy isn't very funny.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:42
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The Namatame TV scene is great because it's a bunch of people who just saw a little girl die and are pretty convinced this guy in front of them is the culprit and will be getting off easy, so their emotions boil over and their worst traits come out, with the only way to talk the mob down being the player not also getting swept up in the emotional tidal wave and calmly working through the facts of the case to conclude Namatame can't be the killer. It is an insanely well done sequence from top to bottom and it boggles me people get mad about it.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:45
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Yosuke is introduced to you by having him try to ride a bike while holding an umbrella and crashing into a trash can, and then he accidentally breaks Chie's DVD and she kicks him in the balls for it. The joke in Yosuke doing lovely things and getting punished for it is that he gets hurt or otherwise made uncomfortable, not that he deserves it for being lovely. You can tell because most of the time the game also punishes the MC and/or Kanji even though they had nothing to do with whatever lovely thing Yosuke is doing. That's the problem.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:08
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Yosuke is just a common vehicle for comedy in Persona 4, and its comedy isn't very funny.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:23
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I don’t think Yosuke deserved to get kicked in the dick and balls for breaking the DVD
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Apr 11, 2023 00:26
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Yosuke is just a common vehicle for comedy in Persona 4, and its comedy isn't very funny. This is a good way of putting it. Yosuke is mostly fine as a character (and I think his S-link is pretty good and one of the better party member ones), but unfortunately he is also the medium through which the game's worst attempts at humor are channeled.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:28
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ryuji ended up the same way, it's just his "jokes" had more lame slapstick and less overt sleaze
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Apr 11, 2023 00:32
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ROFL Octopus posted:I don’t think Yosuke deserved to get kicked in the dick and balls for breaking the DVD What my mind always goes to when people are like "Yosuke is so awful to the girls." Chie also steals his money later on and there is no way to construe that as Yosuke doing anything wrong, Chie just took his money. Long-and-short of it is they pretty much all do poo poo to each other, especially the OG 4. And that's fine by me. It's very typical anime gag comedy violence. I just never took it seriously because the game clearly doesn't. Yosuke and Chie are pretty much the closest pair in the IT.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:37
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