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Klyith posted:It seems that an alternate method that some people are doing is to have a dang X portal so they can do it the oldskool way.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:44
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VictualSquid posted:I still have no idea what you are even trying to do. But, probably not. I will second this post, and strengthen it to "certainly not". But the main thing is that I also have no idea what you are trying to do.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:06
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i want to use the "touch" command to remind the OS that a folder is there. sometimes it just doesn't see a folder (no it's not hidden, just quirky steamos behavior) and last time i used instructions to touch a folder, but i don't remember what the commands were.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:27
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Are you sure that PATH isn't talking about the $PATH environment variable? Or, if the app is a GUI program, then the .desktop file for the application might have something wrong with it.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:37
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Mescal posted:i want to use the "touch" command to remind the OS that a folder is there. sometimes it just doesn't see a folder (no it's not hidden, just quirky steamos behavior) and last time i used instructions to touch a folder, but i don't remember what the commands were. I thought you were trying to launch pyradio, but this post is a learning opportunity too, so let's roll with it! The OS is the thing providing the files, so it doesn't need to be reminded about anything. The "touch" command opens a file for write, and then immediately closes it without doing any writes. This has the effect of changing the modification time (mtime) in the filesystem. There may be some race condition in an application you're using, which you can work around by re-setting the modification time. Changing the mtime of every file in a directory is a weird kludge but I've had to do weirder things in my life. Doing this won't hurt anything, really, you'll just lose accurate information about when the files were last modified. Anyway, the way you can touch every file in a directory and its subdirectories would be something like `find /directory -exec touch \{} \;`. VictualSquid and I are confused because it sounds like you're trying to run a program, and the modification time has absolutely nothing to do with how programs are launched. But you mentioned SteamOS,, which is making me wonder if you're trying to run a program from some sort of SteamOS launcher. If you could provide more information about what precisely you're doing it would help tremendously. Imagine you're walking my grandmother through it over the phone. You click this, then you type that, then you hit enter, and then you're surprised because you expect to see PyRadio but instead you see a box that's green with the words "set your PATH". Or something like that. We don't need you to be a Loonix expert, we just need to understand what you're doing 
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Apr 10, 2023 19:37
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Mescal posted:i installed pyradio, tried to launch it, command not found. ai says "there may be a problem with your system's PATH" should i try fixing that first? it could be anything. i'm in the correct folder using the ai's instructions and everything's spelled right When you said that "ai" said something do you mean you fed the error message to chatgpt or something similar? If so it may not be correct in the slightest so you should start from the beginning and tell us everything.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:49
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cruft posted:I thought you were trying to launch pyradio, but this post is a learning opportunity too, so let's roll with it! thanks. i typed find /home/pyradio -exec touch \{}\; and it didn't like the exec. find missing argument to exec when i said the os didn't see them, it's not the os but its gui. folders not visible in the gui until you touch them. i know you're reading this not believing me, but it's true. i am on a steamdeck using steamos and i've been trying to figure out some stuff, including a low-overhead internet radio via terminal, so i could run it in gaming mode without using resources and for better stability than a radio in a web browser if touch works i won't need more help (yet), but i will be more specific if i need it. sorry to be confusing!
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Apr 10, 2023 20:55
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Mescal posted:thanks. i typed put a space between } and \; I've seen a lot of just bizarre behavior, I believe you. I still don't understand what this has to do with running an executable, but you seem to, and maybe it's not important at this point for you to explain it to the thread.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:57
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I am using my Steam Deck and the logged in user is "deck". The directory /home is owned by root:root and only writable by the root user. A partition from the nvme drive is mounted at /home. The contents are: deck: home directory for user doorstop: symlink to deck lost+found: directory swapfile: swapfile If the pyradio you're trying to install is this: https://github.com/coderholic/pyradio, then you're going to have a bad time because python pip isn't installed in the Steam Deck Linux desktop. See https://github.com/coderholic/pyradio/blob/master/build.md#linux And having pip installed wouldn't do you much good because you really shouldn't be writing to the system partitions/folder.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:27
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ExcessBLarg! posted:I can see why this is distasteful for some, but at the same time, instead of implementing and abandoning half-baked APIs it seems like a reasonable workaround. Yeah. And for many old projects doing it "right" on wayland, even presuming that "right" was a final and well-supported platform, would also mean a pretty vast rewrite. For many of the people managing legacy projects it's probably the only reasonable thing to do. It's not ideal! I'm very pro on wayland, but mostly that's from being pretty negative about X11 for a long time. In the several occasions I've set up a dual-boot or put linux on an old laptop over the last 2 decades, there were 2 things that would make me give up: 1. games 2. frustration with how there were always some consistent small annoyances, no matter which DE I was using, and a general clunky feel that I can only blame on X (funny enough, I never had the typical linux audio nightmare scenario) BattleMaster posted:When you said that "ai" said something do you mean you fed the error message to chatgpt or something similar? If so it may not be correct in the slightest brb I need to talk to the ai about how rm -rf / is the best solution to any software problem
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Apr 10, 2023 21:31
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Just tried Wayland for the first time. Had no idea it would be as simple as stopping KDE, then running startplasma-wayland. Can't tell any difference apart from having to reset my mouse speed, but I guess I'm modern now. Migrated from Pulse to Pipewire, too. This also amounted to replacing one package with another.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:31
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Mescal posted:i am on a steamdeck using steamos and i've been trying to figure out some stuff, including a low-overhead internet radio via terminal FYI using VLC in the background will not be any more overhead than a python app running in a terminal window in the background. VLC has all these radio stations.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:36
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cum jabbar posted:Just tried Wayland for the first time. Had no idea it would be as simple as stopping KDE, then running startplasma-wayland. Can't tell any difference apart from having to reset my mouse speed, but I guess I'm modern now. That's excellent! Boring is what you want with a change like this. If you want to see some improvements, try doing some sort of high framerate animation, drag a window around the screen, or connect a 200+dpi display. Do it on a slower or underpowered machine to really highlight the differences. I don't know how to exploit differences between Pulse and Pipewire. Probably near realtime audio is better, because Pipewire implements JACK stuff. Or plugging in complicated patch configurations with, like, audio processing stuff. But if you're not doing realtime audio effects, there's probably no difference. (I know less about this despite generally knowing more about audio than video. Weird!)
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Apr 10, 2023 22:14
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fwiw, audio on my laptop had stopped working for no clear reason. KDE control panel said "invalid device" when I tried the speaker test. Switching to Pipewire fixed this without me ever understanding the problem 
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Apr 10, 2023 22:29
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Is there a variable in bash that holds the output of the last executed command? So I can e.g. grep or awk it without either running it again, or manually copy-pasting it from the terminal window into a new text file.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:24
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No, the output goes straight to the terminal, it’s not copied via the shell. You might find tee to be helpful for keeping a copy of stuff while seeing it in real-time.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:26
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Subjunctive posted:No, the output goes straight to the terminal, it’s not copied via the shell. You might find tee to be helpful for keeping a copy of stuff while seeing it in real-time. Well, the scenario that brought this question was when a command produced an unexpectedly massive output, and then (and only then) I decided I wanted to grep it. Since I have 32GB of RAM, could the shell be somehow setup to automatically append " | tee /tmp/last_output" to every command? Or maybe one of the newer shells like fish or zsh have such a feature?
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Apr 10, 2023 23:38
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There are terminals with some magic like that, I think. Maybe alcritty or whatever it is?
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Apr 10, 2023 23:39
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NihilCredo posted:Since I have 32GB of RAM, could the shell be somehow setup to automatically append " | tee /tmp/last_output" to every command? Or maybe one of the newer shells like fish or zsh have such a feature?
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Apr 10, 2023 23:48
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waffle iron posted:I am using my Steam Deck and the logged in user is "deck". The directory /home is owned by root:root and only writable by the root user. A partition from the nvme drive is mounted at /home. The contents are: i don't know what pip is, and i'm shocked it's not there. i've installed stuff via terminal before but i guess it wasnt python. anyway, i'm gonna level with y'all. i wanted to set up my internet radio in a terminal cause i want to learn how to do that. it's just something that i happened to want to do, and i thought if i did it this way, even if it's the wrong tool for a stupid task, i'd learn a couple things. how to use terminal to install from github for example.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:54
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Mescal posted:i don't know what pip is, and i'm shocked it's not there. i've installed stuff via terminal before but i guess it wasnt python. The pyradio site says that you should install it through your package manager. No idea which one steam deck uses. Installing a python program without an automated dependence manager is much to annoying for anybody to do ever. Also pyradio seems to be a frontend to mp or vlc, which means you should probably start your debugging by trying to play a stream from there.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:09
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NihilCredo posted:Is there a variable in bash that holds the output of the last executed command? So I can e.g. grep or awk it without either running it again, or manually copy-pasting it from the terminal window into a new text file. Does whatever terminal program you use not have an option to save scrollback to a file? It's not exactly what you want since that might be the history of many commands. But the situation seems unusual enough that a slight amount of effort -- manually trimming the file or whatever -- doesn't seem unwarranted. Easier than manually selecting & copy/paste anyways. NihilCredo posted:Since I have 32GB of RAM, could the shell be somehow setup to automatically append " | tee /tmp/last_output" to every command? What happens if you have 2 commands running at the same time?
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Apr 11, 2023 00:14
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Klyith posted:Long since reported, and apparently will be fixed in KDE Connect 23.04 in the near-ish future. So BrainDance, you also have the option to just deal with the annoyance for a while, rather than buying a wireless keyboard or whatever. Thanks, I had seen that it had been reported a long time ago and then thought, well, poo poo this is 2023 and I have been burned before by the "oh this stopped working that way because now things are done new way? Yeah I guess that's a problem, well, good luck with that. Guess you can always switch back to the thing that worked?" So I, after seeing how long ago this had broken, figured this was probably one of those scenarios and I wasn't getting a fix any time soon. Though I am interested in more wires and more doodads because I loving love doodads, and a device to use one keyboard but have it switch which computer it's connected to, if that's really possible in an easy way, that could be really cool, cuz I can probably do it with the whole USB hub I got in there and switch my controllers around too. But there's a simplicity in just using my phone to search for a YouTube video on my sick media center setup. I've had this feeling for a while now that, with a lot of stuff in Linux we're in this transition period where a lot of things that need to be modernized are being finally modernized, like just mentioned around here obviously x11 to Wayland, pulse to pipewire. And in the end that's all a really good thing but it sucks to be in the middle of the transition period. Being a Debian guy I just adopted the Debian approach to it, like that's all great see you on the other side when things are figured out. But, and maybe this was my naivety or just stupidity, this transition period feeling seems a hell of a lot longer and more drawn out than I expected it to be years ago when I first got the feeling that's what was going on. I think I might make the jump to pipewire for that machine too. Not that pulse isn't working but I always got this uncomfortable feeling with the way it works with the 5.1 setup in there. It wasn't exactly plug and play and there are a couple annoying things that I'm wondering if pipewire would just sorta solve.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:40
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Mescal posted:anyway, i'm gonna level with y'all. i wanted to set up my internet radio in a terminal cause i want to learn how to do that. I salute your motivations. You have 2 problems: 1. the steamdeck is neither fish not foul. It's an arch-based system, but it is set up with an immutable FS that is unlike any normal arch. So you cannot use the normal arch tools. On my system (manjaro, an arch-flavor) I can do yay -a -S pyradio to install pyradio, bing bang done. Using yay on the steamdeck is a Bad Idea and so valve removed yay from their repositories entirely. 2. The project you've chosen, while apparently simple (a terminal music player, how hard can that be right?) is actually pretty complicated. Not in of itself, but in that it uses a bunch of other python greebles to work and those are expected to get pulled in via pip. The steamdeck doesn't have pip. I expect your error message with PATH is that pyradio is trying to run these dependencies when it starts up and can't find them. The steamdeck is probably not a great platform to learn this type of thing on. Like, you have a harder time breaking things due to immutable FS, but that's also a barrier to the type of easy loving-around that's good for learning by doing. (And later finding-out when you really learn things.)
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Apr 11, 2023 00:46
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If you can find a flatpak of pyradio, that’s the most natural way to install an app on SteamOS.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:54
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Ok, more complicated question that I feel like has an answer, and would just be very cool if I could do this. I'm gonna mess around with Plasma-Bigscreen and I think this will, when I get it configured right, work really well for my projector. But, right now the computer I have in there is just an older laptop (not ancient, just, you know.) I'll eventually be replacing this with some leftover parts from another computer. But anyway, so its got the laptop screen itself that I use for doing the normal stuff that needs to be done, editing configs, updating stuff, etc. Would it be possible to run normal kde plasma on the laptop screen but be running plasma-bigscreen on the projector?
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Apr 11, 2023 01:08
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How have I gone all these years without KDE Connect? I can transfer files effortlessly now. So simple to set up. Love this avahi stuff.
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Apr 11, 2023 01:19
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I was looking up articles about Plan 9 from Bell Labs because it sounds kind of interesting even if it sounds like a nightmare to actually use for anything besides hacking projects, I ended up following one dumb reddit argument to suckless/cat-v.org and got retraumatized  Like, I can sympathize with the Free Software Foundation even if I think they're zealots in need of of some basic pragmatism, but what, exactly, is the sort of approach to computers that suckless people/Plan 9 idealists actually want for society? It's not just that Plan9 might be difficult to use, per se, but it's completely obsessed with the sort of low-level hacking very few people actually do and very few people actually need to do, to the point where the system becomes actively hostile to any use of the machine that actually factors into economic production or public entertainment (i.e. the vast, vast majority of actual existing computing). Do they want to lord over the internet as old-school '70s sysadmins writ large, who can mount the hard drives of the serfs' glorified terminals and read their personal information (seriously reading about plumbing, namespaces, 9P, etc. made me think of its  potential more than anything else)? Or do they just want computers to become completely irrelevant and most of the world go back to filing cabinets, rolodexes, and landline telephones while supporting a thousand wannabe Bell Labs to waste electricity on projects that revel in their own uselessness? Like, what do suckless people think computers are for?E: Plan 9 in theory really sounds like the perfect OS, a totalitarian regime with a hyper-elaborate version of plan 9's ideas (if they could actually work) could simply stop selling real computers altogether, and just let citizens have thin clients with minimal hardware that offload most of the processing to a giant nationwide blob of servers, mainframes, laptops, and virtual file systems that functions as one or a few giant systems where a hierarchy of administrators can pwn anyone's computers at any time just by changing directories or manipulating namespaces. Your whole digital life is just another folder to some computer cop, your devices just another set of /dev files that can be fed anything at anytime from anywhere. Not saying it would ever actually happen but Plan 9 From Fascism would made a cool hard-SF cyberpunk story (maybe with a comedy scene of some bored teenager breaking network security and copying goatse to random people's display buffer files).
Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 01:41
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Thanks for the thoughts folks. The pip info is useful because i didn't understand why we had to use these flatpaks. the problem there is that discover shop where you get the flatpaks, it sucks. thanks again for the helpful comments i rly appreciate
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Apr 11, 2023 02:45
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Woolie Wool posted:I was looking up articles about Plan 9 from Bell Labs I haven't heard about that in decades. It sounded like some nerds managed to trick a company into paying for their theoretical cs research project. And no recent info to change my mind. I actually have worked at a place that used Solaris thin clients for most computing. And it seems to have no customer facing difference to the way plan 9 is described. In fact you probably could move the server onto some kybernetes or some other distributed architecture and have 99% of what plan 9 tries to offer to users and admins.
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Apr 11, 2023 09:09
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VictualSquid posted:I haven't heard about that in decades. It sounded like some nerds managed to trick a company into paying for their theoretical cs research project. And no recent info to change my mind. The missing info is that "some nerds" are "the guys who made Unix", and "a company" is the same AT&T research lab that they worked for when they designed Unix (or descendants of it). It's basically their second-system effect next OS design, on the idea of "what if everything really is a file this time, and also network transparent?". I can see why letting those people do that thing felt like a reasonable basic research project to fund. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 11:49
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Mescal posted:Thanks for the thoughts folks. The pip info is useful because i didn't understand why we had to use these flatpaks. the problem there is that discover shop where you get the flatpaks, it sucks. You may want to look into distrobox - it's similar to flatpacks, but you run a complete linux distro instead of a single application. The practical benefit is that you can install a normal Ubuntu or Arch or Fedora or whatever distro in a folder, as your normal user. Then you can use a single command to go "inside" that folder/distro, and install and run whatever you want from in there, without having to worry about how SteamOS is weird. I haven't tried it on SteamOS, but it did work well for me on Red Hat Enterprise. Admittedly two very different distributions, but both have odd limitations. As for how, this looks reasonable. Not one but two cases of "run this script directly from the internet", which is horrible but also apparently how the youth do things.
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Apr 11, 2023 12:03
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NihilCredo posted:Is there a variable in bash that holds the output of the last executed command? So I can e.g. grep or awk it without either running it again, or manually copy-pasting it from the terminal window into a new text file. IIRC no shell can append to everything, because you'd also then have to redirect standard error instead of standard output, in order to catch errors, and that breaks exit status', I think. Alternatively, I think you've mis-understood how the command-line works, if you're doing something that takes so long, or is so complex that you can't easily repeat it via pressing the up-arrow and then enter. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 13:38
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:You can just pipe to tee to a file then tail -F that file. Also, at least for bash, it writes your command history into ~/.bash_history if you want to search for something you did further in the past.
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Apr 11, 2023 13:45
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Nitrousoxide posted:Also, at least for bash, it writes your command history into ~/.bash_history if you want to search for something you did further in the past. Use control-R to search from the command line, too. Press it over and over to see more results after you type a search string.
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Apr 11, 2023 13:59
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You can also run 'history' to print out said history then !number to rerun a specific command.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:06
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BrainDance posted:Would it be possible to run normal kde plasma on the laptop screen but be running plasma-bigscreen on the projector? I don't think so, but the bigscreen github says: quote:To start the Bigscreen homescreen in a window, run: So maybe you could run bigscreen in a fullscreen window on the projector? No clue how well that will work. cum jabbar posted:How have I gone all these years without KDE Connect? I can transfer files effortlessly now. So simple to set up. Love this avahi stuff. I was so accustomed to the phone-connection app on Windows being lovely and totally useless that I completely ignored it for months. In fact I was like "ugh KDE why do you have this, you don't have to make dumb poo poo just because Microsoft does". Then I saw someone else praising it and actually looked at what it does, and felt real dumb.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:37
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:You can just pipe to tee to a file then tail -F that file. Hey, don't shame my "ls | xargs -P and check the output tomorrow" analysis pipelines.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:52
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Klyith posted:The steamdeck is probably not a great platform to learn this type of thing on. Like, you have a harder time breaking things due to immutable FS, but that's also a barrier to the type of easy loving-around that's good for learning by doing. (And later finding-out when you really learn things.) +1 to everything Klyith wrote. Mescal, I think you should find an old PC and install Manjaro on it: that's the arch-based thing Klyith mentioned they use. I use it too. It's going to provide a bunch of working stuff, but also allow you to do the sort of messing around that you're interested in. The advantage Manjaro brings is that it's not going to force you to mess around with stuff you're uninterested in. If you want the full sink-or-swim approach, Arch, Slackware, or Gentoo would be the way to go.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:56
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VictualSquid posted:I haven't heard about that in decades. It sounded like some nerds managed to trick a company into paying for their theoretical cs research project. And no recent info to change my mind. Plan 9 was a research operating system. Just from memory, it was the proving ground for ideas that resulted in:
A whole lot of new ideas were tried out in Plan 9, and I can tell you as a software architect that using it for a year has had a tremendous positive impact on the way I design systems. I also got exposed to probably the most toxic user community I've ever experienced in my life. This has provided a helpful perspective when I get frustrated with things: at least it's not as bad as 9front/suckless.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:59
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