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Pretty sure this is referencing the John birch society, "we're technically a republic not a democracy" talking point.
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Apr 10, 2023 17:30
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Beard Dandruff posted:Pretty sure this is referencing the John birch society, "we're technically a republic not a democracy" talking point. Yeah but that's wrong anyway. Sure, we have a republic.... in which our representatives of that republic are elected via democracy. It's not one or the other. It's both. Technically we're a constitutional federal republic or something similar but it's all just semantics. Like the whole "well the Nazis were SOCIALIST!!!" Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 17:50
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I like to ask people who use that "We're a republic not a democracy" argument what they think "republic" means. They've usually never thought about it. It's just a thing they heard that they can use in an argument. It just means the people have the power, not a monarch. That's it. It has nothing to do with the electoral college or any of that poo poo.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:56
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 IT MEANS A COUNTRY RULED BY REPUBLICANS JUST LIKE GOD INTENDED
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Apr 10, 2023 19:05
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Murdstone posted:I like to ask people who use that "We're a republic not a democracy" argument what they think "republic" means. They've usually never thought about it. It's just a thing they heard that they can use in an argument. It just means the people have the power, not a monarch. That's it. It has nothing to do with the electoral college or any of that poo poo. What does that mean? It means shut up, lib. Dick Fontaine posted:
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Apr 10, 2023 19:23
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It means only the right sort of people should vote and that the Senate is an important check against mob rule because it gives power to rural landowners.
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Apr 10, 2023 19:33
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Yeah I think it also has something to do with the 17th? Amendment that allowed for the direct election of federal senators. Before that weren’t they chosen by state legislatures?
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Apr 10, 2023 20:00
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namlosh posted:Yeah I think it also has something to do with the 17th? Amendment that allowed for the direct election of federal senators. Before that weren’t they chosen by state legislatures? you are correct, the 17th Amendment allowed US voters to cast direct ballots for Federal Senators in 1913, because allowing state legislatures to appoint Senators directly led to a war 30-40 years prior
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Apr 10, 2023 20:03
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MrQwerty posted:you are correct, the 17th Amendment allowed US voters to cast direct ballots for Federal Senators in 1913, because allowing state legislatures to appoint Senators directly led to a war 30-40 years prior I don't think these two things had anything to do with each other, in either direction. 17th amendment isn't about the civil war; very little is at that point. reconstruction is long dead and jim crow was in full swing, with the general acquiescence or even support of most of white america. Direct election of senators in the 1800s wouldn't have changed anything because it's not like the (white-only men) voters in the south were 50/50 on slavery. even the men who didn't own slaves were temporarily embarrassed plantation owners.
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Apr 11, 2023 03:56
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While likely true, consider this map of which states ratified it:  Kind of telling
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Apr 11, 2023 05:24
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imagine if we didn't have direct election of senators today. the gop would have a permanent majority in the senate
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Apr 11, 2023 05:40
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Wtf rhode island
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Apr 11, 2023 12:02
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Scratch Monkey posted:Wtf rhode island Lol, from the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution posted:David Graham Philips, one of the "yellow journalists" whom President Teddy Roosevelt called "muckrakers", described Nelson Aldrich of Rhode Island as the principal "traitor" among the "scurvy lot" in control of the Senate by theft, perjury, and bribes corrupting the state legislatures to gain election to the Senate.
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Apr 11, 2023 12:33
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Nessus posted:While likely true, consider this map of which states ratified it: Doesn't necessarily mean much -- once an amendment passes the remaining states don't have to do anything. And an amendment about electing senators doesn't have a lot of symbolic power if you pass it later (see: southern states passing the 15th 100+ years late). But that was also when the dixiecrats ran the south with permanently entrenched power and their voting base was single-minded about a topic other than good government, which is a great way to have corrupt politics. Lotta parallels today. So like, yeah there was still a hangover from post-civil war politics but that's just a permanent background radiation in the US.
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Apr 11, 2023 13:47
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Murdstone posted:I like to ask people who use that "We're a republic not a democracy" argument what they think "republic" means. They've usually never thought about it. It's just a thing they heard that they can use in an argument. It just means the people have the power, not a monarch. That's it. It has nothing to do with the electoral college or any of that poo poo. I grew up in a very liberal place and yet in High School I was taught “actually a Republic is very important because direct democracy is VERY DANGEROUS because of the inflamed passion of the masses and the wise founding fathers put brakes on all these ignorant farmers.” Why are there so many hurdles to vote? It’s not that it’s a setup so those in power can retain power, it’s a road block on ANARCHY AND CHAOS. If we don’t have the idle sons of car dealership owners in the statehouse banning abortions and stealing from the public till we turn into Somalia you see.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:33
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Apr 11, 2023 18:00
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Jeffrey of SlowPOS
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Apr 11, 2023 18:01
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Cthulu Carl posted:Jeffrey of SlowPOS
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Apr 11, 2023 18:34
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There's a guy I've seen on 87 in the NY Capital Region who purposefully drives in the left lane and paces vehicles in the right. On his rear bumper is a long sticker that reads “TRY LEAVING EARLIER.”
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Apr 11, 2023 19:05
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Pretzellogic posted:There's a guy I've seen on 87 in the NY Capital Region who purposefully drives in the left lane and paces vehicles in the right. On his rear bumper is a long sticker that reads “TRY LEAVING EARLIER.” The very definition of a sociopath.
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Apr 11, 2023 19:11
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 This person is maximally confused. Knuckleduster with "Tooth Fairy", two Rammstein songs but also Onkelz for some reason, never mind how diametrically opposed those two are, and apparently they are a sponsor of the local civil penalty body?
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Apr 12, 2023 13:38
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O N K E L Z
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Apr 12, 2023 14:18
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A peace sign with the Chilean flag?Klyith posted:I don't think these two things had anything to do with each other, in either direction. There was an amount of abolitionists in the South, and when secession happened, there were a lot of southerners who were against it (often having their voices and votes suppressed), and an estimated 100,000 southerners signed up to fight for the Union even. Which is not to absolve the South of its sins, but to add to the pile the fact that they covered up what actual dissent there was when they crafted their own new cultural vision for the South after the end of Reconstruction.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:A peace sign with the Chilean flag? This does not absolve any of them, but it does put the lie to any of this poo poo being about "actual" history. The actual history was complex, cruel and messy.
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Apr 13, 2023 00:44
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Nessus posted:Yeah, there was plenty of dissent. Sam Houston, who literally is responsible for the existence of Texas (for better or worse), got withdrawn from the Senate for voting against the expansion of slavery, and when state governor, was thrown out of office for refusing to swear allegiance to the CSA. He was hardly an abolitionist but he was not far off of Abe Lincoln's positions at the start of the war. It's quite interesting, actually. Sam Houston was willing enough that Texas secede from the United States and become an independent republic again, but he was adamantly opposed to joining the Confederacy. Also Stephen Douglas, Lincoln's famous debate opponent who argued for "popular sovereignty" (letting individual states decide whether to allow slavery or not), felt secession was a violation of that same principle. He told Lincoln that his initial call for 75,000 troops wasn't even close to enough and more or less worked himself to death giving pro-Union speeches in the spring of 1861.
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Apr 13, 2023 04:14
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Nessus posted:Yeah, there was plenty of dissent. Sam Houston, who literally is responsible for the existence of Texas (for better or worse), got withdrawn from the Senate for voting against the expansion of slavery, and when state governor, was thrown out of office for refusing to swear allegiance to the CSA. He was hardly an abolitionist but he was not far off of Abe Lincoln's positions at the start of the war. It's almost like the whole modern "gently caress the south" faction of people that talk about reviving Sherman and handing him a nuke are just bloodthirsty pricks using complex social issues of the past as a cover for their lack of empathy towards a group of mostly poor individuals. There are plenty here that are trying to change things, but elections are well and good rigged. The entire thing is blatantly and brazenly compromised, and somehow the rest of our electorate "can't" do anything about it even with evidence in hand. Frankly, the rest of the country needs the south as a scapegoat so they can just shrug and exhonerate themselves from any thinking about how the issues with our country are systemic. 
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Apr 13, 2023 04:22
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Nah. The south, as a whole, is a loving drain on the entire country both economically, politically, and socially. According to solid data. Texas is one of the few red states that actually contributes to the United States (financially). Also, I've spent a bit of time living with Texans and they were, as a whole, the dumbest motherfuckers I've ever met in my entire life and I hate them. I've been to Texas as well. Like, I don't like Israel but I don't hate the people there. I don't like Russia but I don't hate the people there. Etc etc. I hate Texas and the worst part about Texas is the Texans. edit: Bill Paxton was cool edit 2: that was a bit dramatic and I've been in a bad mood tonight. I apologize. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Apr 13, 2023 |
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Apr 13, 2023 04:52
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It can be both, honestly. There are people in the South who hardly deserve the reputation they receive by virtue of living in the South. They have nothing to really do with its current reputation and have actively sought to improve the South because that’s literally where they loving live. They deserve a safe, healthy and welcoming environment as does anyone else. Obviously, I stand in solidarity with them, as should anyone. And then there are loving Southerners. They have gleefully played handmaiden to the worst the US has to offer even if they want to flex their pseudo-sovereignty about a war they lost centuries ago and rightfully lost because they wanted to keep human beings as chattel, full stop. That hosed up lost cause mentality is alive and well and has permeated a region into thinking that “yes, we are the victims of aggression”. Like despite how bloody the Civil War was, especially for the South, I feel the war and Reconstruction did absolutely gently caress all to teach them a lesson in “don’t be lovely”. People literally have weddings on plantations. Sundown towns are arguably still quite alive. The Civil Rights Movement is still in living memory, as are those who perpetrated the most violent horrors upon them. Those women who screamed at black kids attending their schools are alive and are sweet cookie baking grandmas now. It sucks that many who live in the South have to deal with the labeling - I am absolutely sympathetic there. The South is used to deflect racism from the rest of the country (we all loving see you PNW). But I’d never personally live in the South, I do not feel safe visiting my family there, I do not feel that my family IS safe living there. I’m open to my view being changed but like…things have to significantly change. This ain’t on me. There is a deeply bigoted culture among some white southerners that has irrevocably stained the region and it’s “truth and reconciliation” levels of bad, and has been, for centuries. Everyone gets to deal with the mess of these few, and it’s difficult to really take them to serious task because oftentimes, they’re the ones in power. The South does not deserved to be nuked, but there is a diseased limb that keeps infecting the rest of the body, and for some reason amputation is not an option?
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Apr 13, 2023 07:44
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This is...confusing
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Apr 13, 2023 18:09
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LifeSunDeath posted:This is...confusing Not really, the intent of the Greta one is probably to mock her. The rest is pretty chudy
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Apr 13, 2023 18:15
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That “i support the current thing” sticker that they have been gravitating to recently is especially funny now that right wingers are having a shrieking meltdown over beer
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Apr 13, 2023 18:43
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What's going on with beer?
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Apr 13, 2023 19:09
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the entire country outside of large cities is "the south." also, "i don't hate israelis" lmao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DCW0ieiq54
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Apr 13, 2023 19:16
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wesleywillis posted:What's going on with beer?
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Apr 13, 2023 19:22
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Nessus posted:Yeah, there was plenty of dissent. Sam Houston, who literally is responsible for the existence of Texas (for better or worse), got withdrawn from the Senate for voting against the expansion of slavery, and when state governor, was thrown out of office for refusing to swear allegiance to the CSA. He was hardly an abolitionist but he was not far off of Abe Lincoln's positions at the start of the war. "There was a southern governor who was against the confederacy, but he got thrown out of office by a secession vote with 77% majority and the directly-elected legislature by 167 to 7" is not a great point when I was arguing that the method of election for senators would have changed absolutely jack poo poo about the civil war. Yes, there were southern unionists and abolitionists. They were not a minority, they were a tiny minority with no political power in the face of the majority opinion. The vast majority of southern voters were pro-secession and the overwhelming majority were pro-slavery.
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Apr 13, 2023 20:11
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uber_stoat posted:the entire country outside of large cities is "the south." also, "i don't hate israelis" lmao oh word?
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Apr 13, 2023 21:07
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LifeSunDeath posted:oh word? yeah!
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Apr 13, 2023 21:18
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Klyith posted:"There was a southern governor who was against the confederacy, but he got thrown out of office by a secession vote with 77% majority and the directly-elected legislature by 167 to 7" is not a great point when I was arguing that the method of election for senators would have changed absolutely jack poo poo about the civil war. So basically we agree in different styles Unfortunately that means we must fight to the death
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Apr 13, 2023 21:38
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I saw this in the Taco Bell drive thru today. It's quite possibly the perfect license plate and I'm ashamed I didn't think of it first. It would look great on my Prius. I hope they ordered off the Veggie Cravings menu. 
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Apr 16, 2023 20:14
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Kirk Vikernes posted:I saw this in the Taco Bell drive thru today. It's quite possibly the perfect license plate and I'm ashamed I didn't think of it first. It would look great on my Prius. I hope they ordered off the Veggie Cravings menu. the person who had to sign off on that one had to have been like "yeah, i respect the audacity. i will allow it."
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Apr 16, 2023 20:18
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