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keep punching joe posted:Guys I think you'll find that there are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere
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Apr 11, 2023 15:37
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site posted:i would definitely not trust anybody who thinks it's cool to cosplay fascists [looks around at kids dressed up like dracula] fuckin fascists
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Apr 11, 2023 15:40
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yes i realize the username/post combo
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Apr 11, 2023 15:40
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there is a sliding scale. Like if I see someone dressed up as a stormtrooper, or imperial just on it's face, I don't put much stock in it. Especially if it's like at star wars celebration. As like there are only so many characters and uniforms in star wars that are cosplayable. But like if you interact with them or see them interacting with others and they are like actually deep into that persona and like enjoying playing the rear end in a top hat then yeah. Otherwise probably safe to assume they didn't put more thought into than "cool costume".
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Apr 11, 2023 16:03
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Timely discussion. After years of randomly clicking on countless youtube videos about random Star Wars facts, I finally got a full right wing chud one. Heard a lot of stories about them, but this was the first time I'd came across one somehow. There are nasty hateful nazis out there who are deep into the fandom as an excuse to push their bigotry while saying "Oh, I just like the aesthetic/lore." I know that's not news to anyone, but ewww that video made my skin crawl.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:10
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There's also a race and body type thing that goes on with masked characters, where anyone can play them without being shamed as we see happens otherwise.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:11
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Butterfly Valley posted:There's a huge sliding scale of reasonable to extremely unreasonable reasons to feel uncomfortable around people so no it doesn't always mean the person experiencing discomfort is justified. As I originally said it sucks that if you obviously present as a minority that you don't know where the next discrimination is going to come from but I don't see how being in close proximity to someone wearing one of the most common costumes of the last 40 years, at a convention explicitly encouraging dressing up, is any worse than standing next to any random person in an elevator. I can't imagine how many fictional atrocities have been committed by the vast plethora of characters represented at your average con but imagining that everyone dressed as a villain explicitly supports all of those actions is lunatic. This seems a bit silly. Even if we ignore the Nazi imitating iconography, the original movie trilogy makes it pretty clear that Darth Vader, who sort of rules over the storm troopers, is A Bad Guy. Even if dressing as a storm trooper is "one of the most common costumes of the last 40 years", anyone who puts the time and effort into making that suit (or the cash for buying one I guess) knows that they are dressing up as the Bad Ones. Sure, at a con it's fun to show off your costume, I get that, but to call someone a "lunatic" for being wary of someone dressed as a space Nazi, in a political atmosphere where we, to quote Ted Danson, have Nazis again somehow, is over-blown. In my opinion, of course. If people want to dress up as the Drow, say, whose society is implicitly evil and awful, because Drizzt "is cool", go hog wild. But the Drow don't necessarily have the same cultural implications that space Nazis do.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:15
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TK-42-1 posted:[looks around at kids dressed up like dracula] fuckin fascists ngl im not familiar enough with contemporary academic readings of dracula to tell whether this is a real thing they are ascribing to the text or if this post is just Elon mush brain
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Apr 11, 2023 16:24
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I think we should ban Freddy and Jason cosplay too, because murderers exist in the world
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Apr 11, 2023 16:27
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sad question posted:I think we should ban Freddy and Jason cosplay too, because murderers exist in the world This is a searing hot take, but no one was discussing banning cosplay, just whether it has emotional ramifications for people. Which, you know, most actions tend to have.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:34
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Everyone is entitled to feel the way they want to feel when looking at someone dressed up as something but like to make the jump that they are nazi's or endorsing nazis is very very strong without any other evidence. Not literally everything is a signal to someone's virtues.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:38
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Rappaport posted:Sure, at a con it's fun to show off your costume, I get that, but to call someone a "lunatic" for being wary of someone dressed as a space Nazi, in a political atmosphere where we, to quote Ted Danson, have Nazis again somehow, is over-blown. We never didn't have fascists and discrimination isn't a recent evil, and although obviously any incident is one too many, the overall trend across western countries since Star Wars was released has been overwhelmingly towards increased tolerance and acceptance, legally and culturally. The vast majority of shitheads who would give someone poo poo for their appearance don't wear convenient labels signifying their bigotry, nor would someone presenting as obviously LGBTQ+ or wearing rainbows preclude them from being a bigot. Who's to say the person in the stormtrooper costume wasn't thinking 'oh man I hope I don't look too fat or dorky in this armour' or whatever and meanwhile they were being judged as a potential fascist for wearing a popular costume from a space fantasy series?
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Apr 11, 2023 16:38
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I think the 501st and the average cosplayer is fine. They generally have the self-awareness to know what they’re doing. What’s more worrying is the stuff that goes on at the parks, with the Imperial patrols and such. That really weirds me out.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:40
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kefkafloyd posted:I think the 501st and the average cosplayer is fine. They generally have the self-awareness to know what they’re doing. What’s more worrying is the stuff that goes on at the parks, with the Imperial patrols and such. That really weirds me out. The stormtroopers put me in time out at the parks for being a rebel sympathizer  The patrols are fun, they mess with the guests and when Chewie or Rey are at the parks sometimes they get a group of kids to sneak past the stormtroopers.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:42
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Leaks have been posted for tomorrows Mandalorian episode already, because it was shown at Star Wars Celebration, but a lot more are coming out today since the episode is out tomorrow. I guess creators feel like the day before is the best time to get it out for clicks. I'd be careful what you check out today if you want it to remain a secret. It's one of the longest episodes of the season and series and is a pretty major episode. Makes me almost just wanna stay off the internet for a day.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:45
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Butterfly Valley posted:We never didn't have fascists and discrimination isn't a recent evil, and although obviously any incident is one too many, the overall trend across western countries since Star Wars was released has been overwhelmingly towards increased tolerance and acceptance, legally and culturally. The vast majority of shitheads who would give someone poo poo for their appearance don't wear convenient labels signifying their bigotry, nor would someone presenting as obviously LGBTQ+ or wearing rainbows preclude them from being a bigot. Who's to say the person in the stormtrooper costume wasn't thinking 'oh man I hope I don't look too fat or dorky in this armour' or whatever and meanwhile they were being judged as a potential fascist for wearing a popular costume from a space fantasy series? I don't think people cosplaying as Richard Nixon expect to be taken as the good guys either, even if they might feel self-conscious about their five'o'clock shadow. And the entire gist of this conversation has been the anti-thesis to your claim that increased tolerance and acceptance is the major cultural shift of our times. We have "proud boys" and people identifying as Nazis, and as you say, that is a bad thing! I hope every cosplayer has a good time, but the point of this conversation was that actions have consequences.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:51
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ShowTime posted:Leaks have been posted for tomorrows Mandalorian episode already, because it was shown at Star Wars Celebration, but a lot more are coming out today since the episode is out tomorrow. I guess creators feel like the day before is the best time to get it out for clicks. I'd be careful what you check out today if you want it to remain a secret. It's one of the longest episodes of the season and series and is a pretty major episode. Makes me almost just wanna stay off the internet for a day. I mean, we're what, seven episodes in now? That was about the time Boba swapped over, so... "Somehow, Plo Koon returned"? (I haven't seen or read any spoilers, but given my random predictions tend to have a success rate of 60+%, I wouldn't bat an eye)
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Apr 11, 2023 16:51
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The real question is: what about Clone Trooper cosplayers
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Apr 11, 2023 16:58
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mycot posted:The real question is: what about Clone Trooper cosplayers Rex cosplay for all the Maori dadbods out there.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:02
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I heard a spoiler for Mando but it was so dumb it can't possibly be true.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:03
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Rappaport posted:And the entire gist of this conversation has been the anti-thesis to your claim that increased tolerance and acceptance is the major cultural shift of our times. We have "proud boys" and people identifying as Nazis, and as you say, that is a bad thing! The entire gist of this conversation is about someone assuming someone cosplaying as a stormtrooper at a convention was an irl nazi. Hundreds of laws and opinion polls are the thesis to my 'claim' that western nations are overwhelmingly more tolerant towards LGBTQ+ people than 40 years ago, so the argument that stormtrooper cosplayers are more likely to be actual fascists now as opposed to in the past doesn't seem to hold any weight. Butterfly Valley fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 17:03
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i don't know if you've noticed but they're literally trying to outlaw my existence right now
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Apr 11, 2023 17:04
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AndyElusive posted:Anyone who has a full Imperial Stormtrooper costume probably took the time and effort to make it themselves and probably did it out of love for Star Wars and not because they're some kind of Nazi gently caress. If you still think people who make Storm Trooper armor are people you have to fear in real life, check out the 501st Legion who do a lot of fundraising and charity work. These people are cool. I take it as like 50/50 if they're just a 501st cosplaying type dork, or if they're a "I wish I were in the 501st IRL" type dork. As others have said, you kinda need corroborating factors to be sure. If the space nazi glorifier starts glorifying or sympathizing with real nazis in any way, then welp. But I am very well aware not to judge a book by its cover. What's a bit more troubling to me is how the mythosaur skull has become Star Wars' punisher skull, and entails all the baggage of that. Very skeptical of anyone that puts a mythosaur skull or a punisher skull on their car or whatever.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:06
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I will just defer to poster site on this matter.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:06
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site posted:i don't know if you've noticed but they're literally trying to outlaw my existence right now cosplayers in stormtrooper costumes are?
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Apr 11, 2023 17:07
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did you notice you just went from western nations and opinion polls down to stormtrooper cosplayers as soon as i pointed out something that you didn't like
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Apr 11, 2023 17:13
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Butterfly Valley posted:cosplayers in stormtrooper costumes are? Statistically, some of them are.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:13
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I really really do not want to give Star Wars fans any benefit of the doubt, but I'm reluctant to say that being a fan of the villain faction is an automatic red flag because that's how you get to insane twitter takes like "if you make sexy fanart of Adam Driver you are supporting the rise of fascism" + Star Wars itself has already kinda failed to make the bad guys 100% unsympathetic and unlikeable. Like, Sheev is the evilest Space Nazi of them all and everybody loves him.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:15
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site posted:did you notice you just went from western nations and opinion polls down to stormtrooper cosplayers as soon as i pointed out something that you didn't like What did you point out that I didn't like? I only brought up the overall trend of societal acceptance to specifically counter the argument that people are more likely to be fascists/hold discriminatory views now so there's more reason to be suspicious of someone in a stormtrooper costume. Of course general trends don't diminish the constant need to fight for those rights and the risk of backsliding as in the US where I assume you're from is real and tragic. I just don't see the connection to a dork in a stormtrooper outfit.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:21
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the overall trend is that people are vastly more willing to hate on queer people than they were pre 2016. trust me, i know, i live it and let me spell it out for you real clear. when i see someone in cosplay i don't already know, all i know about them is what they're wearing. if i see someone wearing empire gear what i can tell about them is that they are somebody willingly, intentionally, wearing a costume of an explicitly fascist regime. similar to someone wearing a maga hat. all i have to go on is one loud thing being advertised to me and so that is what i will base my safety on
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Apr 11, 2023 17:27
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And have you experienced any (more) discrimination from empire cosplayers relative to other groups?
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Apr 11, 2023 17:30
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drat, some people take wearing costumes of their favorite TV shows pretty seriously ITT. I guess I'm going to have to rethink my Dalek props, don't want anyone thinking I support authoritarians that are out to destroy all humans thought out time and space.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:31
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I always wanted to have a scout trooper costume, as I love their helmet and light armor look. Luckily Saw's partisans have repurposed scout armor so I can fly my antifa colors true while still getting the sicko helmet
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Apr 11, 2023 17:34
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Butterfly Valley posted:And have you experienced any (more) discrimination from empire cosplayers relative to other groups? i honestly can't tell if your lack of understanding regarding safety concerns is intentional or not (if I'm reading you correctly you're not us based so maybe this is alien to you) but I'm just going to disengage since i can't make it any clearer
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Apr 11, 2023 17:41
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Okay so new tv show idea. The rebellion discovers the empire is mining ore for some sort of new super weapon. Over the course of the season we discover it's all about creating some sort of "phantom" TIE that can cloak (I know, on a ship that small!). You can do ground based combat as they infiltrate the production facility, sweet space battles. I mean people love giant rear end ships so why not have one of the final episodes have a cloaked SSD or some poo poo. Star Wars: The Second Rebel Offensive, coming soon to Disney +
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Apr 11, 2023 17:45
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You can only wear the armour if you're a member of the Ghorman Front on your way to do Space Crimes Against The Empire
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Apr 11, 2023 17:50
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The funny thing the conservatives assholes always seem to think they are the rebels in the times I'm forced to engage with them at work or in nerd spaces. Had to hear some real dumb libertarian readings on Andor.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:54
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Butterfly Valley posted:The entire gist of this conversation is about someone assuming someone cosplaying as a stormtrooper at a convention was an irl nazi. Hundreds of laws and opinion polls are the thesis to my 'claim' that western nations are overwhelmingly more tolerant towards LGBTQ+ people than 40 years ago, so the argument that stormtrooper cosplayers are more likely to be actual fascists now as opposed to in the past doesn't seem to hold any weight. site posted:i don't know if you've noticed but they're literally trying to outlaw my existence right now Butterfly Valley posted:cosplayers in stormtrooper costumes are? It doesn't matter to the original anecdote if that particular cosplayer was personally a fascist. They were evoking a force that is absolutely real and current and targeting the OP. That's understandably uncomfortable and unfortunate. Slasher movie villains were brought up as an absurd counter example, but honestly, it would be in really bad taste to dress as one if you knew you were going to hang out with someone who had a loved one traumatically murdered. The difference is that there are a lot more people affected by the political hate of fascists than people personally affected by murderers. I don't know where I personally come down on the issue. As a kid I thought the white helmets were cool. The officers in their grey outfits read as Nazis to me and seemed like assholes (British accents helped), and Darth Vader was obviously a bad guy, but the stormtrooper armor never sunk in as being Nazi-esque. It was just neat. I never really got what it was supposed to look like. I can imagine someone who felt that way carrying an innocent affection for that armor into adulthood. But I would also never be critical of someone having a negative reaction to the connotations, because those fascist connotations are real and deliberate, regardless of the intent of the cosplayer.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:55
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I will only wear my Sith Trooper helmet in my house so nobody can see my shame. Nothing has changed.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:59
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Dexo posted:Had to hear some real dumb libertarian readings on Andor.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:07
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