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Done. I went with "Unfortunately, I'm unable to share the exact details of the other offer." and left it at that. Thank you all for the quick advice, I greatly appreciate it. Hopefully that shakes something out, if not, then I'm just saving myself future frustration.
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Apr 10, 2023 22:01
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So the recruiter finally got back to me today in the late afternoon with an email that asked me to fill out some paperwork for a background check. But no offer, and no further mention of money or benefits. Then I received a text shortly after from same recruiter confirming I received the email. I confirmed that I did, and reiterated I had the other offer that I needed to make a call on by tomorrow. They said they hope to have paperwork approved by tomorrow morning and to hang tight, things were in the works. So I'm in a tricky place. I told Company A I would let them know Wednesday by the latest one way or the other, IIRC I said by late AM. I'm thinking I wait till 10:30 tomorrow morning, and if I haven't heard anything back from Company B, either accept Company A's offer and negotiate there. Or tell them I'm waiting on the other offer that I should get at some point during Wednesday, and if I don't have it by 3-4PM, I have my answer from Company B and will move forward with Company A. Am I playing with fire here, or am I in a good position? This is honestly the first time I've had more than one (well in theory) offers on my table at once, so I'm dead reckoning my way through this.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:39
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I got lost here, have you already negotiated with Company A, or is this their initial offer? If the latter, you can easily respond with "I can sign today for $BIG_BUCKS, can we agree on that?" and if they say no you say well then, I need another day or two. If you've already reached the point where this is the final offer, then you can accept it or you can say "hey I actually need a little more time". To be honest though the vibe I'm getting from your posts is that Company B is kinda cheap, you're their second or third choice and they're just trying to keep you warm while negotiating with their first choice. Having competing offers is great but only if you've actually got the offers. At this point if it were me I'd have told Company B this morning that they have 24 hours to deliver an offer or GTFO.
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Apr 12, 2023 04:17
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Yeah sorry, I'll clarify. Company A gave me an offer on Friday, a few days earlier than I expected to hear from them. It was low, so I told them that I had a potential offer coming in from Company B next week. I asked if I could have till this Wednesday (I think I said by late AM) and they said sure, no problem. They also clarified we could negotiate on the salary if need be. Company B wrapped up team interviews with me on Thursday. They said they were going to make a decision early this week as the hiring manager who I had already met with a week earlier was on vacation last week. I emailed their recruiter immediately after Company A made their offer. Just said I really liked them, so could they let me know if there was any interest in me moving forward as a candidate, as I had an offer on the table that I needed to make a decision on by Wednesday. The catch was, Company B's recruiter was out of office on Friday, so they didn't get back to me until yesterday. Yesterday they confirmed my deadline of Wednesday, and then asked me if I could tell them what the offer was from Company A, I declined. Later today I got an email asking me to fill out another app for a background check for when a formal offer is presented. Company B's recruiter then texted me to ensure I saw that email, that they were working on something, and that they were hoping that they would have paperwork approved by tomorrow morning (???). If Company B doesn't have an offer in hand by tomorrow, I'm going with Company A. I'm just in a weird position because I told Company A I'd let them know late Wednesday morning at the latest. Though part of me feels like I should give them till near the COB tomorrow to present them an offer. So I'm unsure if I should just not reach out to Company A until I definitely know which way I'm going, or if I should let them know I just need a few more hours. I know Company B's salary will be more than the offer from Company A since the recruiter already told me the range, and the benefits package in addition to the hybrid work schedule is superior. Otherwise, I'd have already taken Company A's offer.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:02
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Sounds like you submit your counter to company A tomorrow morning. Do you have that all figured out? You haven't even started the negotiation.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:10
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spwrozek posted:Sounds like you submit your counter to company A tomorrow morning. Do you have that all figured out? Yeah agree, it's this. See my previous post about that.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:18
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Yeah, I've figured out what my counter will be for. Guess that's my move tomorrow morning, and I'll go from there. Thanks guys!
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Apr 12, 2023 05:31
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Handsome Ralph posted:Yeah, I've figured out what my counter will be for. Guess that's my move tomorrow morning, and I'll go from there. Thanks guys! Good luck!
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Apr 12, 2023 07:31
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Make like a duck and get that bread.
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Apr 12, 2023 17:27
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Dik Hz posted:Make like a duck and get that bread.  Long story short, I got my bread. Company B finally came through with an offer that was leaps and bounds better than Company A's. I called Company A, left the door open for them if they wanted to counter offer. They said they'd get back to me, and then emailed me a few hours later saying they didn't want to counter offer and they were moving forward with someone else. No skin off my back, Company B's offer beat them at every level, and Company A had a lot more needy demands (more frequent on-call, travel) with far less pay and benefits. I'm so loving jazzed right now. Thanks everyone for your help!
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Apr 12, 2023 23:37
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Apr 12, 2023 23:59
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Handsome Ralph posted:
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Apr 13, 2023 00:07
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Handsome Ralph posted:
 
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Apr 13, 2023 01:11
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Hell yeah!
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Apr 13, 2023 02:31
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Congrats! Nice win!
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Apr 13, 2023 02:35
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Glad to hear it! Sometimes communicating less is worth more in hiring negotiations.
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Apr 14, 2023 15:50
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Stock options for privately held companies are still basically lottery tickets, right? I'm only slightly familiar with them for public companies.
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Apr 19, 2023 00:02
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Magnetic North posted:Stock options for privately held companies are still basically lottery tickets, right? I'm only slightly familiar with them for public companies. I worked for a place for a decade and went with a higher base salary instead of stock options. The people who joined at the same time as me that took mostly options and a low salary walked off with literal millions, like all the money they earned got a 4x multiplier payout at the end. I've worked for a few places that went belly up too, and those same people would have gotten nothing. One important thing is who's funding the company and why. If some famous investment company funds them and installs a CEO, they might mean business and have an exit plan. If the company is funded by a baseball pitcher's world series winnings... uh, you might want to think harder about whether those options are going to pan out, or if you'd rather have the cash up front.
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Apr 19, 2023 00:28
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If they won't talk about funding (who, how much, etc.) and you can't find anything on crunchbase, run as fast as you possibly can
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Apr 19, 2023 01:06
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Omne posted:If they won't talk about funding (who, how much, etc.) and you can't find anything on crunchbase, run as fast as you possibly can Care to elaborate? What are the questions to ask about funding? How do I evaluate the answers? When is the appropriate time to ask about it? Run away from the position itself or just reject offerings and get paid more in base?
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Apr 19, 2023 01:21
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Magnetic North posted:Care to elaborate? What are the questions to ask about funding? How do I evaluate the answers? When is the appropriate time to ask about it? Run away from the position itself or just reject offerings and get paid more in base? With a publicly traded company, you can look up all of their financials and have a deep understanding of how they're doing. With private companies, you cannot. With start-ups, there's an added wrinkle. A lot of start-ups will be listed on Crunchbase.com, and you can see who invested, when, how much, and in what round. A start-up that got money from a known VC is going to talk about it. What you want to know is how early stage they are (pre-seed, seed, series A, B, C, D are the general steps), how much they got last round (and when that round was), what their burn rate is, how close they are to the Rule of 40, and if options are involved, last two 409A valuations. If they shy away from discussing any of this with you before you sign an offer, I'd be skeptical. You're likely to get bits and pieces throughout the process, with the 409A coming last since you'll have to have it in order to value any options they grant. For me, with this information it's less about whether to take more base instead of equity, and more about whether I think this company will exist in a year. If they're withholding a lot of this info, I'd walk away. I'll note that in all the startups I've worked, I have not had this problem; most are open about funding status and are on Crunchbase, will discuss 409As when talking about options at the offer stage, but may hold back on burn/rule of 40 - if so, asking how close they are to profitability and digging in deeper than "close" may be the best you can do.
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Apr 20, 2023 23:52
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Thanks for that. I just applied for a VC funded company (who actually pays well) and was wondering how to value that besides as lottery tickets. Side note, should I get a job offer reviewed by a lawyer when I get to that point? I'm assuming it's worth the few thousand I'll need to spend, but would like to hear other's experiences.
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Apr 21, 2023 23:09
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Evil SpongeBob posted:Thanks for that. I just applied for a VC funded company (who actually pays well) and was wondering how to value that besides as lottery tickets. ISOs are worth somewhere between a large negative multiple on the low end and a large positive multiple on the top end. Most people round them off to zero and treat them as scratchers.
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Apr 21, 2023 23:16
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I've never had a job offer reviewed by a lawyer in the US, as it's At-Will anyway and usually the important parts are pretty straightforward. If there are terms you're concerned about though then I guess it would be worth it.
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Apr 21, 2023 23:36
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Any kind of complex equity arrangement is probably worth running by a lawyer.
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Apr 21, 2023 23:54
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Kyoon is correct, and at the same time, unless you're entering the C-suite, your offer is not complex enough to warrant it. If the company is VC-funded, they have a cap table and option pool, so this stuff is set in stone already.
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Apr 23, 2023 21:50
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Ok thanks. I know I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. I've been in the military and fed govt since 1991. So I've been keeping up with this thread as im eligible to retire July.
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Apr 24, 2023 06:02
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holy loving poo poo i am so thankful for this thread. i did not name a number when asked about my salary expectations and am so glad that i did not because the positions STARTS at $10k more than what I was hoping for  after talking to some friends in the industry, turns out the number that the company named is pretty low. i'm interviewing for a mid-level software engineering position and i'm a really strong candidate. the company is severely lacking in areas that i'm really strong in and i interviewed really well. i'm not sure what to ask for right now. i think when i get the offer in a few days, i'll have a better idea of where to go next.
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Apr 26, 2023 07:01
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Sounds like you're in a really good position already, which is awesome. Once the offer comes in, the easiest way to start negotiating is just "Thanks! I'm really excited to work with your team. I can sign the offer today for [ask]." Ask, is of course up to you. Simplest is number + 15%, but if they're low on PTO days or whatever non-salary benefit you can add that too. Note that they're less likely to move on non-salary stuff but it's still worth asking.
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Apr 26, 2023 07:30
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If you think they're low and you're strong, +25%. They probably wont get there, but you're more likely to get to +15 that way than asking for +15.
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Apr 26, 2023 14:18
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Here's a weird question. I don't need medical insurance since I'll be covered by my retirement fed govt plan. Is there a way to "give back", request they just cover my portion, or offer to decline that benefit in exchange for more PTO or other benefit?
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Apr 26, 2023 15:42
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You can always ask them if they'll just give you the value as salary. Worst case scenario they say no and you have double insurance.
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Apr 26, 2023 15:44
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If you choose to bring it up you phrase it as "I'm independently insured so the insurance doesn't do anything for me; salary and PTO are all I'm looking at in terms of compensation. I will need $X to move forward."
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Apr 26, 2023 15:50
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Most places won't care though since the org that hires you probably has that abstracted away, and doesn't really get anything if you don't take the insurance. It's worth mentioning though.
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Apr 26, 2023 15:57
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Great, thank you all for the feedback.
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Apr 26, 2023 16:00
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They almost certainly will say no as during open enrollment you can enroll. Maybe the insurance is better and you decide to change your mind. I have typically not seen this request go anywhere.
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Apr 26, 2023 16:43
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Yeah I’d expect they’d just say “opt out and pocket the premium you’d normally pay”. We know that’s not the bonus it would seem to be but I’d expect them to stick to their guns.
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Apr 26, 2023 17:03
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Ahh, good points as well. I guess it wouldn't hurt to mention, but not really valuable for negotiation.
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Apr 26, 2023 19:59
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I just came from an interview with a very large company where I got really lucky with the technical questions (not trivial, but I encountered variations of them before on leetcode and friends) and I think I did well enough overall (management, behavioural, etc.) that I could expect an offer in the next few days/week. It's a big IF, but it could happen. Anyway, no numbers have been discussed yet throughout the multiple rounds of interviews. I've seen the levels.fyi compensation data, and it's ... fine at the higher ends, though they don't have data for Canada. The thing is, apparently, according to that website, they're quite big on RSUs and year-end bonus. The stock of the company has been rising relatively steadily over the last 5 years (according to google). At my current company I'm not badly paid, it's decent, but there are no RSUs just stock options that are vesting (been here 2.5 years), worth ... not that much unless some giant buys this company at a high price (few thousand shares at I think $2 value or something... how much could a buyer even overpay?). And no year-end bonus. I would not like to take a job that would pay cash less than what I make now, even if with RSUs is quite a bit higher. On the other hand I'm thinking that is kinda dumb, since look at how much you could make in 2 years.... What's the thread's opinion on RSUs? Is the bird in the hand worth 2 in the bush? On the other hand, being a big corporation, any day an executive could wake up on the wrong side of the bed and dismiss an entire business unit (though this particular business unit seems to have a product with actual clients all over the world). On the other other hand, my current company, while small (200+ people), did fire about 30 or so last year after they lost a contract and they panicked. Edit: Another downside for this potential new position is that they went back in the office (while now I work from home). The commute would not be big (20-30 minutes one way) but ... eh, definitely less than ideal. So I'd like money if I were to move. Volguus fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Apr 29, 2023 |
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Apr 29, 2023 00:45
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Thread seems to value them as lottery tickets.
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Apr 29, 2023 03:12
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