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smellmycheese posted:Lmao. This is the gollywog pub landlords.. This is how Starmer fans talk about Starmer
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Apr 11, 2023 22:34
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I like learning more about other places and debating in debate and discussion on the something awful forums, but can you not do the ‘you only criticise China because you’re spoon fed western propaganda, unlike me, a true free thinker’ thing? It’s really loving patronising. Though I do get the feeling things are about to take a turn for the genocide denialist if that ‘good news’ is what I think it is
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Apr 11, 2023 22:44
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Scientastic posted:As long as that citizenry doesn’t dissent or question authority in any way, the moment anyone steps out of line, they don’t have much of an actual future Now how often does this thread share its insights about how our entire establishment turned on Corbyn? If you step out of line here you get treated the same way, it's why we don't have a large protest movement. If you express dissent much further than a column in the Guardian your future is over. People have been spoken to by the police because of their posts in the UKMT if you remember that. There's literally no difference except China is progressing towards socialism and we are not, so once again we are not in a position to cast judgement. Here's a live map of all ongoing trade union action in China btw, just to demonstrate that it does happen without people being locked away: https://maps.clb.org.hk
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Apr 11, 2023 22:45
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lol what did plod speak to UKMT posters about? did one of the crisps/chocolate orange disagreements get that out of hand?
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Apr 11, 2023 22:47
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Lol, you get arrested here, you don’t get loving black bagged. Don’t use my negative experiences with the police in this absolutely ludicrous comparison.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:47
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I'm not claiming to be a true free thinker. I just want people to stop parroting bullshit and recieved wisdom. There are a hell of a lot of smart people in this thread who I respect but when it comes to international things I can see where people fall short, it's a common problem.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:50
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Jakabite posted:Lol, you get arrested here, you don’t get loving black bagged. Don’t use my negative experiences with the police in this absolutely ludicrous comparison. Tell that to David Kelly.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:51
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Well poo poo, so what, people just die I guess? Sounds about right for the UK. Surprisingly there is a safety net to support people of pensionable age who have very low incomes, which is Pension Credits. It's means-tested, including your partner's income, and tops up your income to a maximum of the full state pension, plus a few extra little benefits. It's not something I'd rely on still existing in the future (I'm amazed the tories haven't reduced or stopped it already). Loads of people don't know about it, and like other means-tested things it's a pain to apply for, but it can be a substantial boost if you really do have little or no pension for whatever reason. Just the side benefits can be worth a lot even if you don't qualify for much in the way of the credits themselves. https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit
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Apr 11, 2023 22:52
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just go on the rob in roving bands in our old age imo and feign collective senility if anyone complains
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Apr 11, 2023 22:55
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The Hatton Garden robbers were all invited on Question Time, where they successfully appealed by blaming a Bulgarian electrician.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:59
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Cookie Cutter posted:Now how often does this thread share its insights about how our entire establishment turned on Corbyn? If you step out of line here you get treated the same way, it's why we don't have a large protest movement. If you express dissent much further than a column in the Guardian your future is over. People have been spoken to by the police because of their posts in the UKMT if you remember that. There's literally no difference except China is progressing towards socialism and we are not, so once again we are not in a position to cast judgement. You are loving insane. Britain has a lot of problems and is miles away from being anything other than a terrible Tory-induced smouldering ruin of a country, but last time I checked, I can call the head of state a oval office and not get disappeared. Try that in China and see what happens. Socialism isn’t an ends justify the means thing, that allows you to trample over people’s rights because you think it’s OK to have a dictator as long as there is a veil of ostensibly socialist policy over the top of authoritarianism. Last time I checked, there isn’t a huge global community of British diaspora who have fled the UK for fear of their lives.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:18
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Scientastic posted:Last time I checked, there isn’t a huge global community of British diaspora who have fled the UK for fear of their lives.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:29
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I don't intend my posts to be a defence of China in any way, so please don't read them as that. The UK just really sucks also.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:31
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It's an anecdotal testimony, but someone I know very well was part of an undercover unit in NI that was forced to do some heinous poo poo during the mid 90's. When their team was spat out by the military after burning out, a dozen of them wanted to whisteblow to the papers about what they were ordered to do - which involved mostly torturing and murdering innocent civilians in cold blood while being plied with crates of spirits. Lots of doorstep killings at the time was this unit's work. Within a week of the group contacting the papers, five of them had died of heart attacks while out jogging while a 6th died of a heart attack in a bath. These were all healthy men in their late 20's/early 30's. The survivors were then warned to keep quiet, and that was that.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:35
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big scary monsters posted:The UK has a hereditary monarch from whom all legislative and executive power derives. The sovereign personally is entirely above the law. The government is not legitimate without the assent of the monarch, and the monarch holds the power to appoint and remove ministers and to dissolve the government. The monarch controls the military, and most members of the military swear an oath of service to him personally. There is some degree of influence from the voting public in choosing the members of the lower house of government - the upper house being an unelected mix of hereditary positions, royal appointees and senior representatives of the state religion. It's a fairly generous use of the word "democracy" to describe the UK's form of government imo. It is not the 'royal army' for a reason, actually. Power derives from the king-in-parliament, not the king alone. All of this was litigated in 1641, 1689 and 1910. Which is to say if Charley got any funny ideas we Londoners would have his head just like we did his namesake, never fear.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:37
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big scary monsters posted:Check again, maybe under Irish diaspora. Mentioned it previously in this thread but it was wild, after already thinking that the British treatment of Ireland was horrific, to find my great-*-grandma fled Ireland due to the Great Famine. Previously it was more on the other side of the family that my relationship with the empire was complicated, in that I only exist because of displacement of colonial subjects. It's a strange feeling to know I was only able to exist because of incredible suffering. This is a serious post so anyone who makes jokes about my posting being worse is a real dogfucker.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:38
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big scary monsters posted:I know it's all supposedly ceremonial, the king has no real power, would have to sign his own death warrant etc. If all that's really true, then a) what's the purpose of the king?, and b) I'd like to see it proven. The purpose of the monarchy is to honour our largest, richest, and highest-profile family of celebrity landlords with an entire fake branch of government. They have considerable power, but it's rooted in being rich fuckers with connections rather than any nonsense about maces and ceremonial oils.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:39
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I even said China had some things going for it, even if it's plenty terrible, especially in the last decade. But being a supposed leftist and defending the Russian regime is baffling to me.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:43
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Private Speech posted:I even said China had some things going for it, even if it's plenty terrible, especially in the last decade. Now now, comrade Putin's denazification campaign is already seeing major success; the Wagner group have almost all died to Ukrainian ordinance. ...oh he was trying to denazify Ukraine? oh no, oh deary me
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Apr 11, 2023 23:44
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Yeah some shady poo poo goes on. Was talking IRL to a friend's friend one time who worked for the MOD as some sort of admin. She said guys who'd been in Iraq (First Iraq war - scud missiles n all that) would come in and tell some right horror stories of things they'd done. Eg getting Iraqi men to dig trenches then push them all in and bury them. (Remember when mass graves were always being discovered in Iraq 2? I used to think of that everytime.). She told me this before Iraq 2 was a twinkle in a western imperialist's eye.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:52
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Woah I've just been reminded of this appalling rubbish from the toe-rag John "Lord" Mann: 18 May 2012: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-18124124 quote:MP John Mann's wife sent dead bird in post - very unpleasant I do agree. 26th July 2012: https://www.worksopguardian.co.uk/news/man-who-sent-mps-wife-dead-bird-in-post-is-given-restraining-order-2742866 quote:A ‘BITTER’ Carlton man responsible for sending a dead bird to the wife of Bassetlaw MP John Mann appeared in court to receive s restraining order and be sentenced today (Thursday 26th July) (nothing about antisemitism or marxism etc, just a disgruntled man who didn't get to be labour councillor). 18th April 2018 (the very day I joined this venerable forum): https://www.yahoo.com/news/labour-mp-reveals-wife-sent-dead-bird-threatened-rape-spoke-anti-semitism-104051031.html The **same** dead bird from 2012 has been repurposed as an antisemitic act carried out by Corbyn supporters. It wasn't a new dead bird. quote:Labour MP reveals wife was sent dead bird and threatened with rape after he spoke out against anti-Semitism Bearing in mind that in 2012 Corbyn was pretty well unknown to most people, Momentum didn't exist, & by golly if that same dead bird was planted on the doorstep again it would have been VERY stinky indeed 6 years after it was first found on the doorstep. I think I prefer the real Jon Lord. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXHi84bSJyw Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 01:47
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Ghastly fkrs. https://twitter.com/K4rmaRules/status/1645706427900522496?s=20 Another from the clone factory that brought you Starmer, Streeting & Ashworth.
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Apr 12, 2023 02:08
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A reminder that Ashworth is married to Emilie Oldknow, who is one of the Labour staffers who sent racist and misogynist messages about Diane Abbott. She was fired from Labour when the content of those messages made it into the public arena, but mysteriously re-hired after Keith became party leader. Read as much as you want into what it says about Ashworth that he's still married to her at this point.
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Apr 12, 2023 02:16
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kingturnip posted:A reminder that Ashworth is married to Emilie Oldknow, who is one of the Labour staffers who sent racist and misogynist messages about Diane Abbott. Yes I know. He's also a nasty piece of work. He told the 'coup' ers that they were going off too soon and should have waited. I remain convinced that had labour won the Dec 2019 election under Corbyn, there would have been a repeat of the resigning on the hour every hour pantomime or a mass of defections to the Cuckolds fairly soon afterwards. Corbyn would just never have been allowed to be PM for more than a few weeks. I think the thing that really killed them off for me was the attempt to 'break him as a man' which I see the memes are laying at Nandy's door but IIRC it was Diane Abbott who made the observation that that is what they were doing at that PLP meeting when basically they all took it in turns to slag Corbyn off. I thought at the time that if you knew someone locally was being seriously bullied or whatever by say a boss or a public body, you'd maybe refer them to your MP at some point. But seems they are appalling bullies themselves. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 02:37
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Cookie Cutter posted:The Chinese government recently lifted 800 million people out of rural poverty, provided high speed rail across the entire country, provide a consistent geopolitical obstacle to US-dominant global capitalism, actually punish their billionaires when they get out of line, have an actual future to offer their citizenry, teach marxism-leninism at school and have full acceptance of transgender people, everything that people go out and march for here is being achieved over there, I don't know what more supposed leftwing people would want from a government if not that. The revolution that feeds the children gets my support, and that's what's happening there, nothing is perfect but we in the UK are in no position to criticise a state that is demonstrably further along the road to socialism than us, especially a state that our state made great pains to oppress for hundreds of years and is playing catch-up to get to where it could have been already. All I'm saying is please don't disregard things as "bad" that we only hear about through media that is filtered down to us that has every interest in framing these things as "authoritarian" and "dictatorial", don't surrender to the thought stopping cliches. This is the same argument that liberals make for why global capitalism is good, because it produces wealth, some of which reaches the poorest in society. "Yes they have billionaires but some of them are prosecuted when they commit crimes and also they are not on especially friendly terms with the US" is a laughable notion of socialism.
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Apr 12, 2023 03:22
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China has lots of issues but from the standpoint of your average person on the street it's a pretty good place as far as poor/developing countries go. A fair portion of that is due to the few socialist aspects which still exist in Chinese society. Arguably even some of their crimes like what's happening in Xinjiang have some socialist underpinnings, twisted as they might be. Russia though is just poo poo. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 04:01
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I won't labour the point too much as I don't want to cause a long derail, and I feel I have been generally understood on what I said about China, disagreed with but understood, and that's fine, but I just want to clarify that when it comes to Russia I don't think that making a realistic assessment of a country's system of governance is the same thing as outright defending that country's actions, of course Russia's actions are indefensible, as are all actions which lead to conflict. It's as ridiculous to me as it is to you that there has emerged here and in the US a strain of so-called communists who openly display a Z alongside the Soviet flag, those are the people that truly live in cartoon world.
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Apr 12, 2023 06:50
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Well I’m sure this will be a huge blow to him  Absolutely incredible that anything this woman now says into a microphone is considered headline news because she got into Downing Street long enough to have a cup of tea and a sandwich
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Apr 12, 2023 07:21
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Who do you think spent more working time in No. 10, Liz Truss or Boris Johnson's Interior Designer?
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Apr 12, 2023 07:31
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carrie symonds speaking of which are they still together. eagerly anticipating news of their separation
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Apr 12, 2023 07:36
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What I'd say to people is: consider how the left is routinely and systematically lied about and slandered by the British media and then apply that knowledge to what that same media is telling you about the international situation. I've been to China and it was very clearly a well-organised country that was wealthy and very rapidly getting wealthier. The Chinese people I met lived lives just like ours except with, you know, working infrastructure and I saw fewer police in Beijing than I do in London. Please consider that when the British media inform you that other countries, who happen to have interests that conflict with those of our ruling classes, are authoritarian hellholes, that perhaps they're just full of poo poo? This thread knows that the media lie about the left as a matter of course: why would you imagine that they're giving you an honest and truthful depiction of anything else that's happening in the world?
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Apr 12, 2023 07:49
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sebzilla posted:Who do you think spent more working time in No. 10, Liz Truss or Boris Johnson's Interior Designer? Who do you think spent more working time in No. 10, Liz Truss or Boris Johnson?
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Apr 12, 2023 08:01
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I imagine there are plenty of people who go to london and come away with the impression that the UK is a wealthy and well organized country. Increasing wealth is entirely consistent with capitalism undergoing growth. The effective management of capitalism can, and has, made a number of countries very wealthy, but that doesn't make it any better for humanity as a whole. The resources for that growth still come at the expense of others and the world at large. The profits are still funneled upwards to the state and capital holders. It is entirely possible for a country to build impressive things, provide impressive services, and perform well in relation to its peers without addressing the fundamental problems of the model that gets it there. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 08:03
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The British Press Lied; Hong Kong didn't throw massive protests against the erosion of liberty but were just throwing massive street parties celebrating the switch to a non democratic system.
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Apr 12, 2023 08:41
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gently caress me. I need to stop reading the news https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1646039684781334528?s=46&t=m_nNbkNoHG4lLitcpyHReg
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Apr 12, 2023 08:48
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smellmycheese posted:gently caress me. I need to stop reading the news We don't even have high taxes ffs
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Apr 12, 2023 08:51
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Pistol_Pete posted:What I'd say to people is: consider how the left is routinely and systematically lied about and slandered by the British media and then apply that knowledge to what that same media is telling you about the international situation. I've been to China and it was very clearly a well-organised country that was wealthy and very rapidly getting wealthier. The Chinese people I met lived lives just like ours except with, you know, working infrastructure and I saw fewer police in Beijing than I do in London. Yes, but the problem is that you are ignoring the testimony of actual Chinese people who have fled the regime and now can tell their story without (as much) fear of reprisal. I’m sure your trip(s) to China was/were great, but to pretend that the people who live in China are not subjugated and controlled is to wilfully ignore the huge amount of easily accessible evidence to the contrary, because it somehow favours your personal worldview.
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Apr 12, 2023 08:52
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OwlFancier posted:I imagine there are plenty of people who go to london and come away with the impression that the UK is a wealthy and well organized country. more likely that they come away with the impression that we really like american candy
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Apr 12, 2023 08:53
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Pablo Bluth posted:The British Press Lied; Hong Kong didn't throw massive protests against the erosion of liberty but were just throwing massive street parties celebrating the switch to a non democratic system.
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Apr 12, 2023 08:59
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I've got an Irish passport being processed so I can flee The British Regime.
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Apr 12, 2023 09:26
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